Automatic vs Manual in Higher Mileage Vehicles

[10aciousB]

Currently shopping for a mid-size truck/SUV ~$5-8K to take a break from payments. Most of the trucks I've looked at in this price range have >200,000kms on the clock. I prefer manual tansmissions, always have. Their relative simplicity means there's less that can go wrong, but there's also the human element that can drastically affect lifespan for good or bad. Automatic transmissions are heavy, complex, and require regular maintenance, but the human element is less of a factor. Which is the better way to go for a higher mileage vehicle in terms of longevity?

[Tom Pullings]

Always manual. Even if something wears out they’re cheaper to fix.

[Ken07AOVette]

I prefer automatic. How many gears in the manual are left after being ground away on for years? Maybe training kids to drive grinding through them, and how much clutch is left? I have had hundreds of vehicles with maybe 3% being manual, replaced 1 automatic and 1 manual transmission both the day after I bought them.
On any vehicle I am serious about buying it is at least a 40 mile drive, everything has to be up to temp, that is generally where the wear shows.

[jstubbs]

The nicer part of a manual trans is once you drive it once, you can generally get a fair idea of the life span left in it. Clutch grabs good and no gears grind? Probably has tons of miles left in ‘er. Gears grind, synchros shot, clutch gone? Probably stay away. As well, if the trans does end up needing a rebuild, they are generally a lot cheaper to have rebuilt than an auto.

Meanwhile, autos it could be shifting fine and dandy on a test drive, no burnt fluid smell, and then 200 km down the road it might suddenly lose reverse or OD.

[omega50]

Had a 700R4 in my 89 Suburban,

Cured me of automatic transmissions. Have not owned one since.
Now own 2 high mileage manual transmission vehicles.

A good inspection by a quality mechanic is the first line of defense.

But likely very limited choices out there for a manual transmission mid-size truck/Suv

[raab]

Manual transmission was about 1800 the last time I had one rebuilt. An automatic was around 3200 to replace. Automatics also have more electrical issues that can haunt you. If it we're me I'd get a manual and forget about it.

Now in saying that, you need to consider what you want to use the vehicle for. A lot of manuals have lower tow ratings then automatics. So keep that in mind if your planning to haul anything big.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by raab

Manual transmission was about 1800 the last time I had one rebuilt. An automatic was around 3200 to replace. Automatics also have more electrical issues that can haunt you. If it we're me I'd get a manual and forget about it.

Now in saying that, you need to consider what you want to use the vehicle for. A lot of manuals have lower tow ratings then automatics. So keep that in mind if your planning to haul anything big.

Manuals have lower tow ratings than auto? I would have never guessed that, good info. I guess because of pressure plate slippage?

[Suzukisam]

In a truck not to bad. But manual in a suv can get very costly to do clutch. If you are looking at suv befor you make the jump phone a tranny shop to see how much that clutch would cost approx. if seen some of the gym up at 3000 dollars

[10aciousB]

Originally Posted by raab

Manual transmission was about 1800 the last time I had one rebuilt. An automatic was around 3200 to replace. Automatics also have more electrical issues that can haunt you. If it we're me I'd get a manual and forget about it.

Now in saying that, you need to consider what you want to use the vehicle for. A lot of manuals have lower tow ratings then automatics. So keep that in mind if your planning to haul anything big.

Good info, thanks. I'm not planning on towing or hauling anything heavy...the odd deer and maybe a Boler-type teardrop trailer if anything.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Manuals have lower tow ratings than auto? I would have never guessed that, good info. I guess because of pressure plate slippage?

Im not sure the reason, just usually when you compare two of the same model vehicles. The manual will have less for tow rating. My guess is that the manual transmissions on the half ton trucks aren't as heavy duty and we're designed for cars. I think with the 3/4 tons and 1 ton diesels it's less of an issue, but worth checking into.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Suzukisam

In a truck not to bad. But manual in a suv can get very costly to do clutch. If you are looking at suv befor you make the jump phone a tranny shop to see how much that clutch would cost approx. if seen some of the gym up at 3000 dollars

3000 for a clutch is highway robbery. Lets say the clutch was 500(I haven't priced them out, but they used to be cheaper) and that he went to a dealership with 145/hr labour cost. That job would have to take almost 17 hours. That's just insane. To take out the tranny, rebuild it, and have it put back in I think they charge 10 hours IIRC. But I guess it would depend on the vehicle, and how hard the tranny is to get at. A lot of SUV's are FWD so shouldn't take much to drop the tranny and switch the clutch.

[Fly fishing Alberta]

If you maintain a manual it is 1000x better. My 1997 4runner 5 speed has 351,000km and is smooth as butter and I replace the clutch and gear oil when they need to be done. Auto tranny’s are a whole other story.

[Arty]

Despite my driving preference for manual transmissions, I'd go for the automatic if it had been serviced regularly. The primary (but not only) wear point is the fluid which can be replaced relatively easily. Obviously, with aggressive use or non-maintenance lots of other internals might have to be replaced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O13wPkw4Y1A

If I had to get a high-mileage truck without knowing exactly how it was used and maintained I'd get the trans remanufactured or replaced, as previously mentioned, regardless what type it was.

The second consideration is how many light trucks are even available in standard transmissions anymore. Standards have been discontinued in most makes/models by now.

[artie]

If you are doing lots of city driving then get the automatic. My old knee used to get so sore pushing that old clutch in so many times a day that when I got the automatic it was a god send. My buddy just blew his automatic in a ford escape which is a common thing in those vehicles where the torque converter blew apart. He thinks rocking a automatic when you get stuck was his undoing.

[liar]

Originally Posted by raab

3000 for a clutch is highway robbery. Lets say the clutch was 500(I haven't priced them out, but they used to be cheaper) and that he went to a dealership with 145/hr labour cost. That job would have to take almost 17 hours. That's just insane. To take out the tranny, rebuild it, and have it put back in I think they charge 10 hours IIRC. But I guess it would depend on the vehicle, and how hard the tranny is to get at. A lot of SUV's are FWD so shouldn't take much to drop the tranny and switch the clutch.

my neighbour changed out the clutch on his dodge 3500 this winter . it was over 3k . i think 3200 .
i just had the auto changed out with a used tranny on my dodge 1500 , 2400 .

[Suzukisam]

Yup some of the new ones are pricey. Check out Ford Escape prices. Check out Chevy Tahoe ( the front axle runs through the engine oil pan). These are not your grandpas old Fargo anymore. The more toys they put on them nowday the more costly they get. Price put your 9 speed Ford F-150 auto trans rebuild, better call your bank for credit card increase.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Suzukisam

Yup some of the new ones are pricey. Check out Ford Escape prices. Check out Chevy Tahoe ( the front axle runs through the engine oil pan). These are not your grandpas old Fargo anymore. The more toys they put on them nowday the more costly they get. Price put your 9 speed Ford F-150 auto trans rebuild, better call your bank for credit card increase.

Holy crap, its getting insane. I only have one vehicle newer then 2010 so most of mine are fairly easy to work on. I can't believe people will pay 3000 for a clutch replacement.

[silverdoctor]

Always preferred older vehicles, alot less to go wrong with them. Currently running an automatic, like the car but miss the stick shift. Next vehicle is stick.

[32-40win]

I chuckle at this to an extent, 15" 2050ft/lb manual adj clutch can be had for 1100.00 new. rebuilt for around 800.00 or so. Autoshift Eaton 15" is 3200.00 now though. The labour and add-ons are a bit more than what they are in a car or pickup. Runs about another 15-1800.00 + linkage + input shaft kit and crosshafts and fork + flywheel grind. 3500-4000.00 out the door isn't uncommon. Auto shifts can hit 5-6000.00. But, the theory is, the truck will make that money back and pay for itself, and these guys think nothing of 150-200,000km /yr or more, some hit 300,000+/yr.
16-1/2" x7" drums can be had for around 110.00-150.00 ea, how many pickup have drums you can buy for that. Reman brakes at 50-60.00/wheel.
Entire class 8 truck builds, in a year, averages 240,000 units.
Honda builds near that, in one month, on some models.
Makes a person wonder.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Just do a check on auto transmission shops versus standard transmission shops in any city. You will find the yellow pages full of Auto transmission shops and not a single Standard one being advertised.

[Anomaly85]

For me it depends on the vehicle and engine\gearing setup. Both my wife and I had manual transmission vehicles. Mine was V8 + 6 speed, hers was a 4 cylinder + 5 speed. I prefer driving a manual but absolutely hated driving hers. A under powered, 4 cylinder with no tourque and a vague clutch isn't fun to drive daily. When it was written off, she replaced it with the same car, but automatic. This particular car was much nicer to daily with an automatic. What im getting at; it's pretty vehicle dependent. Drive options in both and see what's more fun

[10aciousB]

Originally Posted by Arty

Despite my driving preference for manual transmissions, I'd go for the automatic if it had been serviced regularly. The primary (but not only) wear point is the fluid which can be replaced relatively easily. Obviously, with aggressive use or non-maintenance lots of other internals might have to be replaced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O13wPkw4Y1A

If I had to get a high-mileage truck without knowing exactly how it was used and maintained I'd get the trans remanufactured or replaced, as previously mentioned, regardless what type it was.

The second consideration is how many light trucks are even available in standard transmissions anymore. Standards have been discontinued in most makes/models by now.

I’m looking at used Xterras, 4Runners, Frontiers, Tacoma’s, ZR2 Blazers, etc etc. Lots of manual transmissions in that class. Being that my price range is $5-8k, if I can get 2 or 3 years out of it before it dies, then I’m good with that. Rebuilding/replacing right off the bat isn’t a huge concern, or economically prudent, especially when you consider I made over $15,000 in payments over the past two years for the privilege of driving shiny new.

[Ken07AOVette]

If I have to buy a transmission I buy one from a wrecker with low miles or from one of the forums. The wreckers give warranty, I don't need that new oil smell

[Arty]

Originally Posted by 10aciousB

I’m looking at used Xterras, 4Runners, Frontiers, Tacoma’s, ZR2 Blazers, etc etc. Lots of manual transmissions in that class. Being that my price range is $5-8k, if I can get 2 or 3 years out of it before it dies, then I’m good with that. Rebuilding/replacing right off the bat isn’t a huge concern, or economically prudent, especially when you consider I made over $15,000 in payments over the past two years for the privilege of driving shiny new.

Well, I don't believe any vehicle really 'dies' because you just keep replacing parts which get worn out, until the technology becomes obsolete (like requiring leaded gasoline), or parts become impossible to find at a decent price (the reason they retired the 'Concorde' aircraft).

Some components can become worse than others, such as rusted-out and bent frames, or broken piston rings and scored cyl walls, or grenaded tranny gears etc. But by the time those become imminent you should have had so much use out of the vehicle (decades?) that investing in a reman engine at some point in the distant future might make sense, for example. But that assumes you've been doing a good job on maintenance on all the other stuff.

When you buy anything you have to look at the total purchase price, plus total interest charges, plus projected maintenance costs for the life of the item, and what value added you get from buying it in the first place. Not 'payments'!

Unless you've leased something, you've already made an investment for far into the future life of the vehicle because of the book market depreciation over the last two years. You'd probably be under water in other words, to dump it now.

The whole idea is that once the vehicle is paid off, you continue to get way more value out of it than it costs, for a very long time. Essentially a free vehicle forever after the last payment is done. Assuming it was the right purchase decision for what you need in the first place, and it has been carefully maintained to keep as much of the value of all of the assembled parts for as long as possible.

[amosfella]

I think it's rather vehicle dependent. Or rather dependent on the individual transmission. I've driven a lot of vehicles over the years. I've put over half a million miles on semis using 10, 13, 15, and 18 speed transmissions, and driven automatics. I preferred the manuals for flatland driving, but liked the automatics better for mountain and city. The 10 speed was not fun to drive, as gear 9 was practically ground out of it due to it being a very different shifting rpm difference. Had the thing pop out of gear and bruise my hand more than a few times.

I'm not sure about which is better. In a dodge 1 ton, a manual seems to be the better option. The automatic seems to break and wear out more easily.

In 1996, mercedes came out with the 722.6 transmission. It's been proven quite reliable over the years with proper maintenance. It's also sold in Dodge vehicles as the NAG-1 transmission. Many are getting up into the 600k range before needing rebuilding, and a rebuild kit is about $650. If you want to upgrade the trany, you can reliably put 1000 hp in front of it for about $1000 us in parts. That's actually impressive life for a transmission. Mercedes put it into new vehicles with v12 or diesel engines until 2012. The high hp dodge vehicles used it till 2014, and some vehicles still come new with it still. Jeep Wrangler for example. It was used in sprinters until very recently as well.

I'm only bringing this up to make the point that not all automatics are bad, and not all manual transmissions are good. They all have the capability of having something go wrong, and being very expensive to fix...

[Fifth Wheel]

Originally Posted by amosfella

...

I'm only bringing this up to make the point that not all automatics are bad, and not all manual transmissions are good. They all have the capability of having something go wrong, and being very expensive to fix...

^^^ This pretty much puts it all into a nutshell. For me, twenty or thirty years ago, it would be a no-brainer -- go with the manual. But with modern technologies and various offerings, it really does depend on the specific manufacturer, model and application.

[Delavan]

Can we also assume that because less and less people know how to drive stick, that some garages are losing their skills fixing manual trannies/replacing clutches?

Manuals used to be cheaper to buy compared to auto for the very same vehicle. About $1000.00 cheaper. Now, its rare, you don't get it for cheaper and the tow rating is lower...

I had a look at the manual Tacomas!