What rifle package for a new young hunter?

Mxyzptik · #1 11-02-2010, 11:33 AM

Ok, let me first beg that this doesn't get over taken by a raging name calling debate that every single thread seems to turn into PLEASE

I am mentoring a young nephew who is keenly interested in hunting. He's twelve and not a big kid. I started him with a single shot 410 and he's killed just about every magpie and gopher on their farm. So far this fall, I bought some decoys and 2 blinds and we shot some geese, then went out for grouse He shoots his 20 gauge pump we upgraded to just fine.

Now he wants to hunt deer, I have gotten permission on a farm where there is a bunch of whitetail and picked up a cool little pop up blind and a set of shooting sticks.

WHAT RIFLE
He has been saving his money to buy a rifle but I don't want to rush into something. For now he could borrow my daughters 308 BLR which seems to fit him fine.
Like all boys his age though he is really impatient to buy his own. I looked at the entry level Remington and thought what a piece of crap. What I am leaning towards is the savage 110 package. It appears to be an OK little rifle with a scope, all set to go. His Dad and him seem ton think they want a 243 but I would lean more towards a 270,3006 or 308. , just for the chance of moving up to hunting moose.

So my questions:
1) What do you think of the Savage 110 package for $429.00 if not what then?
2) What caliber would you get considering this is not a family who will be acquiring a collection ?
3) do you think that deduced recoil loads are needed for him with a 308 or a 3006 ?

CaberTosser · #2 11-02-2010, 12:04 PM

Has the young lad taken a hunter Ed course? I know the sons of one fellow I get out hunting with did; despite having been hunting with Dad practically since they could walk. My own sons a ways off, legislation may not be the same by his turn. I think a .243 would be fine, or perhaps find a 6.5 x 55, nice mild recoil on those and plenty adequate for larger game like moose. The noted fellows wife has dropped all manner of critters with hers. A .260 Remington would be very similar as well, but ammo availability on those 2 can leave a bit to be desired.

Don't be stuck on a new rifle, you can find plenty of quality used ones on the classifieds here or on CanadianGunNutz dot com's classifieds. A nice used one will not really depreciate from what you buy it for, the values hold fairly well after that first drop from new, provided its well cared for. Savage are a very good value new, but you may want to get the gun and scope individually if you want better glass; remember, better glass can switch to any future rifle; again I'll repeat the used philosophy. Redfield and Burris make some nice lower priced optics.

markg · #3 11-02-2010, 12:11 PM

I read that the .25/06 has a bit more kick but has better bullet selection and ballistics then the .243. I am giving some serious consideration to buying one myself as a deer gun

Ice Fishing Maniac · #4 11-02-2010, 12:13 PM

We got my one nephew the Savage pkg rifle in the MOBU pattern in a 243 two years ago for around $500-550 if I remember right. Very accurate rifle, just have to get past the sloppy action. Great starter rifle IMO-doesnt break the bank either.

Honed his skills on coyoyes and target shooting. Give him a couple more years and he can move up to the 270WSM his dad shoots.

BigJon · #5 11-02-2010, 12:42 PM

I think the savage 11/110 package deal would be a good entry level set-up. Personally I would have more concerns with the scope that comes with it rather than the rife, but I know of a couple of those packages in circulation that are putting deer on the ground.

CaberTosser has some good advice...look around for a good used rifle and buy the rifle and scope seperately...you may end up spending a few more bucks but it could be something that rolls over into his teenage/early adult years if he so desires. I think any Rem. M700, Win. M70, Ruger M77, Weatherby Vangaurd, Tikka T3, Savage, Browning, would do if you can find one for the right price. In that whole bunch there are rifles that are real gems and others that are lemons from any manufacturer you choose. Bring the lad out to shoulder a few and move forward from there.

Good luck!

omega50 · #6 11-02-2010, 12:47 PM

Bit of a crap shoot finding a rifle that will fit him now and allow for his growth into a man. How big is his dad?
As far as caliber without punishing recoil leading to bad habits for him, and allowing for hunting moose with his uncle(lol), I might also consider something like a Vanguard Combination package in 7mm08 rem. comes with scope, sling and a hard case.
That way you could buy him a cheap Lee loading Kit for his next birthday and really get him hooked.
Maybe above his budget but value priced and lets him have a broader range of bullet selection than a .243 which could limit him down the road IMO

Mxyzptik · #7 11-02-2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omega50

Bit of a crap shoot finding a rifle that will fit him now and allow for his growth into a man. How big is his dad?
As far as caliber without punishing recoil leading to bad habits for him, and allowing for hunting moose with his uncle(lol), I might also consider something like a Vanguard Combination package in 7mm08 rem. comes with scope, sling and a hard case.
That way you could buy him a cheap Lee loading Kit for his next birthday and really get him hooked.
Maybe above his budget but value priced and lets him have a broader range of bullet selection than a .243 which could limit him down the road IMO

Thanks all for your advise everyone , I suggested the used route as well. No need for the reloading kit I have damn near every piece of reloading stuff ever made that I inherited from my Dad and he'll be able to join our club.

What is the Vanguard combination package ? Any idea on the price ?

Does anyone have any thoughts on the reduced recoil loads, do you think they'll be necessary for him with the BLR ?

2fast4uRuss · #8 11-02-2010, 01:04 PM

there is also a Vanguard rifle that comes with two stocks a shorter one and a standard one for young hunters. Might be worth a look..I have a 22-250 that I am very hapy with accuracy wise.

HunterDave · #9 11-02-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxyzptik

He's twelve and not a big kid.

So my questions:
1) What do you think of the Savage 110 package for $429.00 if not what then?
2) What caliber would you get considering this is not a family who will be acquiring a collection ?
3) do you think that deduced recoil loads are needed for him with a 308 or a 3006 ?

1. I think that you are referring to the model 111 package. The model 110 has the Accutrigger and is a bit more expensive than that. I bought the model 111 package last year and the trigger pull was absolutely brutal. I had to buy a Timney Trigger for about $120 to turn it into a decent shooting rifle. Depending on the price difference between a model 111 and a model 110 it's something to keep in mind when you're looking at/comparing rifles.

The scope in the package is just okay and will get the job done.

Other than the trigger, the rifle and scope are a good entry level combination.

Another option might be to look at the even cheaper Stevens 200 and buy a decent scope and rings separately. It's made by Savage so again the trigger pull might be an issue.

2. He's twelve and not a big kid. I'd go with a 243 if it were me. When he gets a little older he can get a job and buy a bigger rifle if he wants to.

3. He's twelve and not a big kid. I've never tried reduced recoil loads but I can say for sure that my model 111 in 3006 with regular loads would hurt him. I think that a 308 or 3006 is too much of a rifle for him right now. I understand where you are coming from though but I don't think that buying a rifle that he will "grow into" is a good idea.

I hope this helps!

gitrdun · #10 11-02-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I bought the model 111 package last year and the trigger pull was absolutely brutal. I had to buy a Timney Trigger for about $120 to turn it into a decent shooting rifle.

You'd be surprised as to what you can do to that trigger with a honing stone and a half hour's worth of work. I did mine and had an official at a shoot ask me "is that a custom trigger?" when he was pre-qualifying my gun.

To stay on topic, I think the OP's choice of the 110 packages and calibers will do just fine.

jpohlic · #11 11-02-2010, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Another option might be to look at the even cheaper Stevens 200 and buy a decent scope and rings separately. It's made by Savage so again the trigger pull might be an issue.

Stevens are accurate, reliable and inexpensive, but budget $100 for a new trigger. I have one in 7mm-08 and I put a Rifle Basix trigger in it - it's much better now. With a limbsaver pad it hardly kicks at all even though it's a fairly light gun.

Another option I'd consider is a 30-30 with open sights. Learn to hunt the old fashioned way before adding a scope and taking longer shots.

goatskin · #12 11-02-2010, 02:04 PM

I found myself in exactly the same situation. My son is 14 and weighs 78 pounds soaking wet.
After doing a lot of research, I decided to get him a youth model Marlin xls7 in 7-08. The option is available to restock the rifle when he outgrows the youth stock.
I like the versatility provided by the 7-08 and the ability to take larger game with 140 and 150 grain bullets. The 7-08 is also very mild as far as recoil is concerned.
I looked into the Savages first and found that Savage has taken it upon themselves to change all of their rifling in the 7-08's they produce to 12 in 1 which is in my opinion, too slow to properly stabilize the heavier bullets that I would prefer to use for moose or elk.
The Marlin has a 1 in 9.5 twist barrel. Through WSS, the cost of the rifle was $389. I topped the unit of with a good, used scope (Leopold vari-x 2) that I found for $200. With rings. the unit cost me less than $625.
While not pretty, this rig can consistently shoot 1/2 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards.
Most importantly my son is overjoyed with the results and not at all afraid to shoot it.
Goatskin

Mxyzptik · #13 11-02-2010, 04:24 PM

Ok, I'm getting some real good insights here. I like the idea of waiting and getting some that you could change then stock on like the Marlin or the Vanguard.

Now what I have to determine is for this year can he shoot my daughters BLR 308 with reduced recoil loads ? Anyone have experience with them at all ?

Arn?Narn. · #14 11-02-2010, 04:32 PM

If he is shooting a 20 gauge, I would not worry about reduced recoil .308 loads...

2 cents

Good Luck !

AB2506 · #15 11-02-2010, 05:54 PM

I'm not a big Savage fan, IMO they are too ugly, but they work!

I bought this package http://www.cabelas.ca/index.cfm?page...ction=&ID=4973 from a different vendor 3 years ago for $419, in the youth package, for my girls. They are currently 12 & 13, and as of yesterday, they are both blooded deer hunters.

Unfortunately, the youth only comes in 243. Fortunately, everytime they have squeezed the trigger, using 85 gr Barnes TSX, the deer have been bangflops. That little bullet has put the deer down immediately!

For the money, you can't go wrong. Just know that the scopes are not of very good quality. One of ours has crapped out, but I knew it would. The rifle alone is worth the money. Get one, you won't be disappointed.

flyguyd · #16 11-02-2010, 07:07 PM

I just bought a Stevens 200 in 7mm08 and threw a Bushnell banner scope on it . It was like $450 complete for my 13 yr old daughter and she really likes it and shoots it well

dgl1948 · #17 11-02-2010, 07:37 PM

Above all get him a gun that fits. Nothing worse for a youg person to start hunting with a firearm that is too big. If it does not fit he will feel the recoil a lot more, find it harder to handle and harder to get on target and keep it there. It is not hard to sell a youth model in a couple of years if he outgrows it.
My son started with a used Remington 788 in a 6mm and a butt stock that I shortened to fit him. He was left handed so it was hard to find a gun for him.

Oliver · #18 11-02-2010, 07:49 PM

I don't have any experience with the savage you mentioned but I have just recently bought a Mossberg 100 ATR in .30-06 and it seems to be a decent well built rifle at the low price of $300, I would suggest the .243 or the .270, and put a cabelas tactical turret scope for $120 on it.

DanJ · #19 11-02-2010, 10:49 PM

I say, stick with the light stuff and don't be talked into a .30-06 or .308 or anything in that class. I'm a grown man on the smallish side - 155 lbs - and my .270 scares the heck out of me. I would not give it to a youngster I was trying to encourage unless he's insisting on hunting something larger than deer, and is not prone to nosebleeds. Stick with .243, 6mm Remington, stuff like that, and make sure he can shoulder the rifle comfortably.

shooter · #20 11-02-2010, 10:56 PM

7-08 would be my first pick in caliber selection unless you are not near a major center and then I would opt for the 270. I'm sure smaller areas would have limited ammo selection in 7-08. A youngster that can handle a 20 gauge can handle a 130 grain 270 recoil, but also leaving a lot of play for future hunts on pretty much any critter in our Province by going to various bullet weights.

Redwillow · #21 11-02-2010, 11:09 PM

I bought the youth Vanguard package that came with 2 stocks, a slightly shorter wood stock and a comp stock for later on. It does the job for my 13 year old son but is a little heavy to carry around for more than a couple hours. He took his 1st buck last year with it.

bagwan · #22 11-03-2010, 09:31 AM

My wife and daughter in law use the 270 in the reduced loads and have had success in doing so. I see no reason not to buy a box for your BLR for him to use in the short term until you find him a suitable rifle. After he gets used to the reduced loads, try him on some normal ones. We found the point of impact at 100 yds very similar, no matter the shell. We use the Remington reduced loads. DIL shot a WT at estimated , by pacing, 136 yds.

greylynx · #23 11-03-2010, 06:41 PM

He is 12 and loves hunting.

It is his money that he is saving.

If the lad has access to the internet, why don't you let him do his own homework, and decide what he wants?

He has a budget, and smart uncle to advise him.

Let him shoot a 30-06, a 270, or whatever and try them out.

In fact, if you can, loan him a gun to hunt with first.

The last thing you want him to do is develop is a flinch. or closing of eyes.

Just remembering when I was 12

kodiak4x4 · #24 11-12-2010, 07:27 PM

You asked about the BLR. well i shoot both the Blr and a Remington 700. The BLR is in .308 and the 700 is a 7mm rem mag, I find that the BLR's recoil is the same or greater than the 7mm mag! I would look towards the 7mm-08 or the .280 rem.

Sask Hunter · #25 11-12-2010, 09:53 PM

Don;t get hung up on this being the "one and only" He'll buy more guns or have them given to him.

buy something he can shoot and hunt deer for now and in the future. If he wants to hunt moose, he'll get a moose gun later.

remember too, Avoid youth models, he'll grow out of it in 3 years.

Alternatively, buy a TC Encore. Pricey, but easy to add barrels to the collection.

I also really agree to loan a kid guns until he figures on what he wants.

Sneeze · #26 11-12-2010, 10:03 PM

I would stick with a short action cartridge. They are easier to operate quickly, tend to be lighter & more forgiving in the re-coil department.

As a reloader, one of my favorite calibre's is the 260 Remington. It's very conservative on powder & seems to be very consistant regardless of environment. It is accurate with several different types of powder and seems to have a sweet spot around 120-130 grains of bullet. (Perfect for medium sized game). Velocity is sub 3000, which keeps your barrells alive and accurate longer. Bullet selection is pretty good, with almost all your hunting type bullets in .264 have ballistic co-'s that rival most 30 calibre bullets.

Combine low recoil with great accuracy you get a calibre that's a great confidence builder for a budding shooter. As your apprentice develops, the right bullet selection will allow him to take even elk and moose with it.

When he is done with it, it would make a great gun to pass onto the next young hunter waiting to go!

Best of luck!

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · #27 11-13-2010, 11:19 PM

so many choices out there.

my buddy has a daughter who is wanting to hunt next year.

I"m thinking 6.5x55 is the best option we have for her, but the rifle is heavy.

now, if I had access to a 'smith, it would be a SR Mauser in 6.5x55 with barrel shortened and turned light. Wood stock would be altered to fit her, and a full size one would be ready for later.

a 1-5 power scope, AND a receiver sight mounted.

We handload, so we would build up a 120gr load at around 2450 for easy shooting for her first season.

(I have a M38 Husky that I plan that very conversion)

sheepguide · #28 11-13-2010, 11:33 PM

Not sure on what make he should get but im gunna throw another vote in for the 7mm-08. My 10yr/old boy shoots my wifes remington model 7 youth/ladies very well. He isnt very big and handles the 100 and 120gr loads with ease. I think its the best all around youth ladies caliber out there.
JMO

SG

hva1640 · #29 11-19-2010, 06:35 AM

remington model 7 7m-08 top with leupold 2x7
good luck

Stinky Coyote · #30 11-19-2010, 07:33 AM

buy used, shorten lop

or NEF single shot youth model

love the idea of the reduced loads in the more standard chartridge choices

i have a NEF youth single shot in .243 for wife and mentoring 13 yr old this season and fits him pretty good, he's small for 13 too...and the little NEF is solid/somewhat heavy, short but stout and easy for small people to shoot well in .243

i can't see an option of only doing one rifle from 12 yrs old for life....i see two rifles in there somehow....go up to 270/30-06 when the bulk of the growing is done

i like having the NEF around, great loner for taking people coyote hunting or anytime someone smaller getting into it etc. and they don't break the bank to get one with a burris or elite 3200 on top....good bang for buck/back up etc.