Review of mounting a scope Tikka vs the rest

[Traps]

I bought a new Tikka T3 a while back and the individual I bought it from said something to me that stuck with me. I mentioned to him that I wanted to just mount the rings on the rifle as it would be better than using bases as well, he said it wouldn't make any differences mounting bases. This generated some thought, so I compared the two different setups side by side:

1st setup:

machined locations on rifle for bases, machined bases, machined rings - this is three machined pieces that have a cumulation of tolerances. The machining operations include profiling the barrel, drilling and tapping the base locations, machining the bases, drilling holes for the bases to mount onto the barrel, machining bore of the rings, slitting the rings, the dovetail of the rings, the removable portion of the dovetail, the mounting screw.

2nd setup:

rings mounted directly on rifle does two things for you, first the grooves on the rifle that accept the rings are machined true to the rifle, this is either done in one setup where they can do all machining at once which is best, or in a few setups where they have to take the receiver on and off the machine to do all machining steps, they'll just have to touch off a couple of known reference points. The machining operations involved are the dovetail profile on the rifle, machining bore of the rings, slitting the rings, the dovetail of the rings, the removable portion of the dovetail, the mounting screw.

So comparing the first setup with the second setup:

1st setup - there are minimum of nine machining operations on seven different components (2 ring top halves, 2 ring bottom halves, 2 bases, 1 barrel) - the three primary dimensions x, y, z are used to machine during each operation so that is 9x3 = 27 dimensions where error can cumulate.

2nd setup - There are six machining steps on five different components (2 ring top halves, 2 ring bottom halves, 1 barrel), the three primary dimensions x,y, z there are 5x3 = 15 dimensions where error can cumulate.

By the time these tolerances cumulate this can create stress on the tube of the scope, this is why I assume that some like the Burris setup with the inserts as it would help to alleviate some of these problems.

All toll assuming the two setups have the same tolerances used in manufacturing their componets, the Tikka setup will always come out a clear winner. It is less complex and a better design to attach your scope.

[Bushrat]

And thats why people lap their rings.

[Traps]

Point is tikka is recognizing there is no need for bases, its extra parts, labour, setup time and cost (although they do upsell the optilocks) for a better fit. These kind of features tell you a lot about a product, they strive to provide you a better product. Besides smart guy there are people that don't lap.

I've got rifles with both and have never really seen a difference. 15 vs 27 doesn't really matter that much if one of them is out. Properly aligned and lapped rings are the great equalizer. You can always go with a one-piece base/ring like the Talley. Personally, I'd trust it more than a dovetail. Tikka is far from the only rifle with an integrated dovetail......Sako and T/C also come to mind.

Tikka makes a good quality rifle but they also drill and tap their rifles. I've got Talleys on mine. Optilocks are a bear to properly align and they are heavy. They are a great ring but I don't think they hold zero any better.

[elkhunter11]

I don't use optilocs on Sako or Tikka,there are more parts than necessary,and the screws tend to be quite soft.I used Leupold ringmounts on my Sako 85,and confirmed alignment with my lapping bar.If the rings don't line up,I lap them,it isn't hard to do,and it provides the proper alignment,so there isn't any stress on the scope tube.

[JM59]

I used Dednutz on piece mount on my Tikka, excellent quality and fit.

[Traps]

If the optilocks threads are soft wouldn't locktite do the trick? Eventually I am looking for quick release without bases - any ideas? Like the dednutz mounts too bad they don't offer in a lefty!

[elkhunter11]

If the optilocks threads are soft wouldn't locktite do the trick?

How is loctite going to help you tighten the screws tighter without stripping the screw heads?And the soft screw heads make them even harder to remove after being loctited.Besides,I don't use loctite on the ring screws.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

How is loctite going to help you tighten the screws tighter without stripping the screw heads?And the soft screw heads make them even harder to remove after being loctited.Besides,I don't use loctite on the ring screws.

Where did I say loctite would help tighten screws.....it would prevent them from backing off.......ie the whole purpose of loctite. Lighten up crusty.

[Traps]

[elkhunter11]

duplicate

[elkhunter11]

Where did I say loctite would help tighten screws.....it would prevent them from backing off.......ie the whole purpose of loctite.

The problem isn't that the screws back off,it's that the screw heads are soft,so they are very easy to strip when tightening or loosening them.It makes them hard to torque properly,or to remove if you have to.Loctite won't help with that issue,it will only make it even harder to remove the screws without stripping the heads.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The problem isn't that the screws back off,it's that the screw heads are soft,so they are very easy to strip when tightening or loosening them.It makes them hard to torque properly,or to remove if you have to.Loctite won't help with that issue,it will only make it even harder to remove the screws without stripping the heads.

Do they come with a recommended torque spec so the heads are not stripped? Or alternatively one could look up the torque spec so the heads don't get stripped. It may not need to be that tight and a low or medium strength loctite could do the trick.....no?

Originally Posted by Traps

Do they come with a recommended torque spec so the heads are not stripped? Or alternatively one could look up the torque spec so the heads don't get stripped. It may not need to be that tight and a low or medium strength loctite could do the trick.....no?

I've never had an issue with Optilock screws stripping but as elk said, you don't use Loctite on rings....base screws only. Truthfully, ring screws on rings that are properly aligned and lapped don't require a lot of torque.

[elkhunter11]

I've never had an issue with Optilock screws stripping

I don't use Opti locs myself,but I did help someone remove a couple of screws that were stripped,and they were quite soft.To make it worse,they were allen heads,not torx heads.The scope had moved in the rings,so he torqued them up pretty tight to prevent it from happening again.When he went to change scopes,the screws did not want to come out without stripping.After seeing how soft the screws were,I am going to avoid them.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't use Opti locs myself,but I did help someone remove a couple of screws that were stripped,and they were quite soft.To make it worse,they were allen heads,not torx heads.The scope had moved in the rings,so he torqued them up pretty tight to prevent it from happening again.When he went to change scopes,the screws did not want to come out without stripping.After seeing how soft the screws were,I am going to avoid them.

I've had several sets...never been an issue.

[IR_mike]

20-25 inch lbs a good rule of thumb for ring and base torque?

Never used loctite...never had anything come loose.

[Traps]

It could be that they were too tight to begin with or maybe he was using the wrong allen key wrench....who knows. Thanks for the info Mike and Sheep, no loctite and the torque spec.