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  #31  
Old 10-29-2020, 11:29 PM
Wes_G Wes_G is offline
 
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Originally Posted by artie View Post
funny thing they had strip mines in the crowsnest pass in the forties and fifties and the fish did just fine. It was not so long ago that the tent mountain strip closed and we never heard much about selenium. The Grassy Strip mine is a long ways from the old man river plenty of space to build settlement ponds that work.
Or we did and we just didn't know it or the amount of science behind the testing is not what it is today? I am sure the research about selenium and it's effects has come a long way in the last 70 years don't you think?
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  #32  
Old 10-30-2020, 12:22 AM
Fisherdan Fisherdan is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Letís look at the data.

162,500 active wells in Alberta.

http://www.orphanwell.ca/about/orphan-inventory/

As of October 1, 2020, orphan inventory counts are as follows:

2538 Orphan Wells for Abandonment PDF EXCEL
270 Orphan Facilities for Decommissioning PDF EXCEL
3447 Orphan Pipeline Segments for Abandonment PDF EXCEL
3566 Orphan Sites for Reclamation PDF EXCEL
973 Orphan Reclaimed Sites PDF EXCEL
100 Orphan Sites for Reclamation Requiring Surface Equip Removal

Yes...there are some unclaimed wells and there has been an offer by government to aid in abandonment of wells caused by bankruptcy in a horrible oil and gas market made worse by the NDP in BC and Bloc preventing pipelines and the Feds driving investment away as well as crashing commodity prices over time.

To note...the industry pays a levy towards abandonments and had been increasing their contributions.

Some of the misinformation needs to be addressed. We are in unique times. Plus the Liberals needed to give SNC another freebie.
Misinformation? Orphan Wells is one thing... Iím more worried about the number of inactive wells. Over 120 000 in Alberta. Plus infinite miles of pipeline, etc. The liability that companies like CNRL, Shell, etc have is staggering. This didnít happen overnight... canít blame 4 years of NDP for billions in liabilities over decades. And I donít think that any of these companies are planning on remediating any of them, unless taxpayers pony up some, or all the cash.

As an example, CNRL recently submitted a list of some of their own inactive wells In BC to receive federal funding for remediation. It was declined as they are legally required to clean up their own mess on their dime.
https://www.pipelinenewsnorth.ca/prr...nup-1.24199233

I donít think Iím being too pessimistic to believe that schmo taxpayers like myself will be the ones footing the bill in the end, and leaving a significantly more damaged environment for my kids.

I like the letter in the original post. Once these things are gone, they are gone.
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  #33  
Old 10-30-2020, 05:19 AM
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KegRiver KegRiver is offline
 
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Some development is relatively benign. Some can be made so and some should never be allowed.

Where the big problems come in is when government sells out to industry which is what has been happening over the past few decades.

There are still benign developments and some that are made so but those that should never be allowed are now getting approved. And some industry players are being given a pass on their environmental impact.

But I don't blame government entirely. We all hold some responsibility for what is happening.

In part because too many vote for the likes of Rachel Notley and Jason Kenny and in part because many buy products they don't really need, and more then they need of others.

Many also don't do the research to learn who the bad actors are.

So long as we take our direction from the news media, nothing will change.

People need to realize that the news media is big business. They are as motivated by profit as is Monsanto or SNC-Lavalin.
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  #34  
Old 10-30-2020, 08:26 AM
goldscud goldscud is offline
 
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Coal mines are releasing lots of selenium, and there is no way at present to effectively stop it. There is no way to collect all the run off water leaching down off a mountain-side of disturbed land. Selenium affects reproductive outcomes and interferes with muscle performance. There will be consequences.
The Oldman river is home to Species at Risk (Cutthroat and Bull trout). The federal government is required by law to look out for them.

https://nationalpost.com/news/coal-m...columbia-mines

https://www.usgs.gov/news/usgs-relea...lake-koocanusa

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa...ampling-effort


I wonder if the people in Lethbridge and all the irrigators using Oldman Res water are excited about a future with lots of Selenium coming down the stream

Last edited by goldscud; 10-30-2020 at 08:32 AM.
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  #35  
Old 10-30-2020, 10:31 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Attended a Env/ Conf in Red Deer few years back. Kleiken was env minister,did his usual cattle farts speech. Then Imperial oil gave talk on how many $millions it was going to cost to clean up their Leduc oilfield. They solved the problem, sold Leduc field to small oil company that lost their shirt. Problem solved! Alberta tax payers clean up the mess.
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  #36  
Old 10-30-2020, 12:17 PM
ehrgeiz ehrgeiz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherdan View Post
Misinformation? Orphan Wells is one thing... Iím more worried about the number of inactive wells. Over 120 000 in Alberta. Plus infinite miles of pipeline, etc. The liability that companies like CNRL, Shell, etc have is staggering. This didnít happen overnight... canít blame 4 years of NDP for billions in liabilities over decades. And I donít think that any of these companies are planning on remediating any of them, unless taxpayers pony up some, or all the cash.

As an example, CNRL recently submitted a list of some of their own inactive wells In BC to receive federal funding for remediation. It was declined as they are legally required to clean up their own mess on their dime.
https://www.pipelinenewsnorth.ca/prr...nup-1.24199233

I donít think Iím being too pessimistic to believe that schmo taxpayers like myself will be the ones footing the bill in the end, and leaving a significantly more damaged environment for my kids.

I like the letter in the original post. Once these things are gone, they are gone.
^Curious as to how you see abandoned pipelines as liabilities?

Sounds like CNRL is just trying to be a smart business and leverage Federal Government stimulus money to their benefit. I sure know of a lot of businesses that have done just that and are not oil and gas. CNRL also most assuredly abandoned and reclaims a significant number of wells annually.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Attended a Env/ Conf in Red Deer few years back. Kleiken was env minister,did his usual cattle farts speech. Then Imperial oil gave talk on how many $millions it was going to cost to clean up their Leduc oilfield. They solved the problem, sold Leduc field to small oil company that lost their shirt. Problem solved! Alberta tax payers clean up the mess.
^I think you need to revisit the current reality of Imperial's old Leduc oilfield. It's not at all as you suggest. In fact it's a productive field and many of the old sites have been or are being reclaimed. Of course there are sites in that area with the OWA and there are sites that can't be practically cleaned-up and are in perpetual monitoring. It's one of the first oil fields developed at a time when conservation and protection of environment was not really a thing. Lessons learned the hard way, but I'll tell you the crops still grow strong!

I don't mean to be argumentative all of the time, but I'm not going to sit quiet anymore while misinformation suggests that oil and gas development has left Alberta a mess. The reality is that oil and gas has been an overwhelming blessing to the prosperity of our Province and will continue to be provided we can maintain and establish Provincial and Federal Governments that support investment. The opportunities presented through oil and gas and other resource extraction are not even close to being over, not by a damned sight.
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  #37  
Old 10-30-2020, 12:55 PM
Fisherdan Fisherdan is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ehrgeiz View Post
^Curious as to how you see abandoned pipelines as liabilities?

Sounds like CNRL is just trying to be a smart business and leverage Federal Government stimulus money to their benefit. I sure know of a lot of businesses that have done just that and are not oil and gas. CNRL also most assuredly abandoned and reclaims a significant number of wells annually.




^I think you need to revisit the current reality of Imperial's old Leduc oilfield. It's not at all as you suggest. In fact it's a productive field and many of the old sites have been or are being reclaimed. Of course there are sites in that area with the OWA and there are sites that can't be practically cleaned-up and are in perpetual monitoring. It's one of the first oil fields developed at a time when conservation and protection of environment was not really a thing. Lessons learned the hard way, but I'll tell you the crops still grow strong!

I don't mean to be argumentative all of the time, but I'm not going to sit quiet anymore while misinformation suggests that oil and gas development has left Alberta a mess. The reality is that oil and gas has been an overwhelming blessing to the prosperity of our Province and will continue to be provided we can maintain and establish Provincial and Federal Governments that support investment. The opportunities presented through oil and gas and other resource extraction are not even close to being over, not by a damned sight.
Inactive wells, pipelines, etc are liabilities because they require dollars spent for reclamation. In order to begin a new well, the company is legally required to clean it once itís finished. These companies are not cleaning up after themselves, and subsequent governments have never forced the issue. So the liabilities keep growing and growingÖ To the point where these companies will not be able to do it without a massive Government (taxpayer) subsidy.

I agree, from a business point of view it is smart. From an ethical point of view, however, itís awful. These companies are paying out big dividends to wealthy investorsÖ and waiting for regular joe blow taxpayers to foot the bill for cleaning up their mess. And meanwhile, the environment takes another hit.

Iím not against oil and gas... or resource development in general. I just wish that they would simply clean up after themselves, and do the job right.
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  #38  
Old 10-30-2020, 01:47 PM
ehrgeiz ehrgeiz is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Fisherdan View Post
Inactive wells, pipelines, etc are liabilities because they require dollars spent for reclamation. In order to begin a new well, the company is legally required to clean it once itís finished. These companies are not cleaning up after themselves, and subsequent governments have never forced the issue. So the liabilities keep growing and growingÖ To the point where these companies will not be able to do it without a massive Government (taxpayer) subsidy.

I agree, from a business point of view it is smart. From an ethical point of view, however, itís awful. These companies are paying out big dividends to wealthy investorsÖ and waiting for regular joe blow taxpayers to foot the bill for cleaning up their mess. And meanwhile, the environment takes another hit.

Iím not against oil and gas... or resource development in general. I just wish that they would simply clean up after themselves, and do the job right.
To speak to pipelines directly, they're not really an environmental liability. When a pipeline is changed to an abandoned status it needs to be purged of all substance, cut and capped. Generally the pipes are left inert in the ground and never bother anyone. Operators or the AER still have to address them for 1st calls and are also responsible if they're ever exposed due to erosion. When that happens they usually just remove that section entirely. Some older lines had asbestos and could arguably present an environmental hazard, but these are few and really not an issue if left undisturbed in the ground. Lastly, if the land is going to see some form of high density development the abandoned lines are often removed during the earthwork development process and present minimal impact to a developer when you're already moon-scaping the parcel to regrade it from scratch.

Honestly, from my experience the biggest nuisance of abandoned legacy pipeline is often inconvenience to the farmers in cultivated fields due to subsidence resulting from historically poor soil handling processes. That's about it.

From the well perspective we would agree that more can be done through the GOA and the AER to incentivize abandonment and reclamation, particularly when the commodity is up and revenue is good. A careful balance is needed though as new development helps fund annual reclamation programs.

From a forward looking perspective, a cause of this 8 decade issue has already been partially solved. Historically vertical wells required significantly more infrastructure and leases. Technology has advanced directional drilling allowing 4, 8 and beyond wells from a single large lease. This optimization helps ensure we have less infrastructure to reclaim and more revenue associated with a single site to allocate for future abandonment and reclamation.

Sorry, just realized we're on quite a tangent from the original thread...
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  #39  
Old 10-30-2020, 02:41 PM
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lmtada lmtada is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Buckhead View Post
So when is Saskatchewan closing all their mines, and doing the remediation and reclamation.

Do tell.
Here you go. Uranium City, reclamation. Lorado Mill.
https://uraniumcity-history.com/news...g-lorado-lake/

https://youtu.be/KW16npqJGnI
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  #40  
Old 10-30-2020, 05:19 PM
lannie lannie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by artie View Post
funny thing they had strip mines in the crowsnest pass in the forties and fifties and the fish did just fine. It was not so long ago that the tent mountain strip closed and we never heard much about selenium. The grassy strip mine is a long ways from the old man river plenty of space to build settlement ponds that work.
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  #41  
Old 10-30-2020, 08:28 PM
artie artie is offline
 
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https://elkvalleycoal.com/new-water-...#disqus_thread

New measures in stopping selenium from entering river systems
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