Edmonton safe injection site location

[Okotokian]

Putting it in a hospital makes sense from a support point of view, getting other services that might be needed, etc. But anything in a hospital is ridiculously expensive, and if it's not convenient to where addicts hang out, I doubt they will bother coming. I think it might be better to have a low-cost street front facility in the heart of the area addicts frequent. I know the Alex is close, but will they come?

I know some have concerns about such sites from a moral or legal perspective, but I don't consider letting people die to be a particularly moral stand. This is a health problem. And frankly a waste of resources having ambulances tearing all over the place picking up overdosed people 24/7 when they could be available for other emergencies.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

Hey I have lots of extra dollars to throw at taxes for stuff like this. It's not like I spend about $14k every year on my diabetic daughter. My daughter that wants to live!

**** me, what a waste of ****ing resources.

And I agree with you, have family and friends that are type 1 and it's not cheap.


However, 30,000 overdoses in a city like Vancouver isn't cheap either, that's just one city. it's throwing away millions and millions of dollars ever year. If Canada would focus on rehabilitation instead of criminalizing, many of these issues can be solved. Person shooting up heroin doesn't know what they are getting, if they get fentanyl or other.

What I would like to see in all honesty, make heroin and other drugs legal and supply it like medical marijuana. Should it be free? I'm on the fence. They are going to do drugs anyway, but this route is proven to get people the help they need to break the addiction instead of the constant revolving door. Safe injection sites - people can go in, do their thing, if anything happens help is right there.


The millions of dollars saved? Give that to diabetics. The system isn't fair, waste vs needs.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Putting it in a hospital makes sense from a support point of view, getting other services that might be needed, etc. But anything in a hospital is ridiculously expensive, and if it's not convenient to where addicts hang out, I doubt they will bother coming. I think it might be better to have a low-cost street front facility in the heart of the area addicts frequent. I know the Alex is close, but will they come?

I know some have concerns about such sites from a moral or legal perspective, but I don't consider letting people die to be a particularly moral stand. This is a health problem. And frankly a waste of resources having ambulances tearing all over the place picking up overdosed people 24/7 when they could be available for other emergencies.

My Dad died because the Royal Alexander hospital did not have a bed for him. He fell while he had Chronic Inflammatory Demilinating Polyneurapathy. He was sent by ambulance from home to Vermilion. 1 hour drive. Then to save his life he was sent by ambulance to Edmonton the same day. 2 hour drive. They did CPR on him twice enroute. When he got there they were able to empty the fluid out of his lungs and told us they wanted to keep him for 2 weeks to get his strength back, he was not to be moved again. They assured us with bed rest he would be fine. We went home.
I got a call at 7 AM to go to Vermilion AFAFP because they were doing CPR on my Dad.

THEY SENT HIM BY AMBULANCE BACK TO VERMILION AGAIN THE SAME DAY BECAUSE
THERE WERE NO BEDS IN EDMONTON.
IT KILLED HIM.

To hear that they are setting up this unnecessary ignorant waste of lifesaving resource for self inflicted drug using infuriates me to a degree I can not post on here.

This very garbage kills innocents, who is going to speak for them?

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

And I agree with you, have family and friends that are type 1 and it's not cheap.


However, 30,000 overdoses in a city like Vancouver isn't cheap either, that's just one city. it's throwing away millions and millions of dollars ever year. If Canada would focus on rehabilitation instead of criminalizing, many of these issues can be solved. Person shooting up heroin doesn't know what they are getting, if they get fentanyl or other.

What I would like to see in all honesty, make heroin and other drugs legal and supply it like medical marijuana. Should it be free? I'm on the fence. They are going to do drugs anyway, but this route is proven to get people the help they need to break the addiction instead of the constant revolving door. Safe injection sites - people can go in, do their thing, if anything happens help is right there.


The millions of dollars saved? Give that to diabetics. The system isn't fair, waste vs needs.

You want free heroin, no problem. Go live beside a drug house like I have for the last few years, it's awesome. Go to your 15 year olds youth hockey coaches (21years old) funeral that just OD from cocaine and fentanyl, go ahead.

I have no time for junkies and the money I earn I would rather go to my issues or my family.

This world has gone to **** and I don't want to support it. I do give support to other issues. I go down for example to the soup kitchen and Christmas time with bags full of groceries, etc.

[SlimChance]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

My Dad died because the Royal Alexander hospital did not have a bed for him. He fell while he had Chronic Inflammatory Demilinating Polyneurapathy. He was sent by ambulance from home to Vermilion. 1 hour drive. Then to save his life he was sent by ambulance to Edmonton the same day. 2 hour drive. They did CPR on him twice enroute. When he got there they were able to empty the fluid out of his lungs and told us they wanted to keep him for 2 weeks to get his strength back, he was not to be moved again. They assured us with bed rest he would be fine. We went home.
I got a call at 7 AM to go to Vermilion AFAFP because they were doing CPR on my Dad.

THEY SENT HIM BY AMBULANCE BACK TO VERMILION AGAIN THE SAME DAY BECAUSE
THERE WERE NO BEDS IN EDMONTON.
IT KILLED HIM.

To hear that they are setting up this unnecessary ignorant waste of lifesaving resource for self inflicted drug using infuriates me to a degree I can not post on here.

This very garbage kills innocents, who is going to speak for them?

That's a horrible situation and I'm sorry it happened.

Safe injection sites, though, lead to less strain on our medical system, not more.

They cut down on the number of people infected by HIV/Hepatitis and they cut down on the number of calls that paramedics have to make.

That frees up beds, doctors and paramedics for everybody else to use.

I can understand the desire to just try to sweep drug users under the rug and pretend it's not our problem, but they're a strain on our system no matter what we do.

If we throw them in jail, we have to pay for that - and that means not paying for things we want or need. Letting them die in the streets still means paying people to clean up the corpses and find all the needles - not to mention the lawsuits and the drop in tourism revenue.

If we encourage drug users to inject in safe, clean conditions it's been proven to lessen their burden on our system - meaning there's more available for people who need it.

[neilsledder]

How many of these drug addicts or going to be bothering the people good to the hospital? They are most likely going to be asking to bum a smile jet or spare a few dollars. And plain hang out high all around the outside of the hospital. Just what I want to deal with when I am most likely dealing with a bad situation is dealing with them


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[Okotokian]

With a supervised injection site there will be less ambulance responses and hospitalizations. That means more beds for others, not less.

If someone thinks drug users should just go off and die, they aren't adding much to this discussion. It's not a view that's going to be shared by anyone in government or responsible society.

[silverdoctor]

I understand the anger, but left to their own devices, junkies will generally always be junkies and always be a strain on the system. Many are too far gone. Living in downtown Toronto in the 90's, I got a real eye opener with drug addiction. When you're so far gone, and have no money, some resort to glue and gas sniffing, there is nothing worse in this world than seeing a human being strung out on either.

However, there are success stories already.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...uver-1.4133933

https://www.straight.com/news/878486...oin-abstinence


Imagine the uproar if people overdosing were just left to die. It's time to do something about this, the situation is just getting worse and it will eventually hit you personally.

[BlackHeart]

Seems like a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't scenario.

On one side it seems wrong to help drug addicts with continuing their addiction at taxpayer provided sites all to make sure its safer for them, all the while they are using an illegal drug.

On the other side if we don't, they do more damage to themselves and then to our taxpayer funded medical system.


They cause lots of damage to themselves and those around them and even society. They seem to care less about what happens.

While we concern ourselves with minimizing the damage they do to themselves. And we seem to care more and take it upon ourselves as a societal problem we must fix.

For every addict we help stay alive longer, we may save some, but others we just prolong their lifetime of negative impacts and that may even include them creating new addicts to feed their addiction.

And do we really do much good with this type of program in the long long term??

I'm not sure what the real solution is, but this seems like switching from a fast poison to a slow poison........

[honda450]

Is it BYOD (bring your own drugs] or do they supply it? Then ya just hang around there? Do they inject you? I know nothing about it, but I don't like it.

Is this all payed for by the taxpayer?

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by SlimChance

That's a horrible situation and I'm sorry it happened.

Safe injection sites, though, lead to less strain on our medical system, not more.

They cut down on the number of people infected by HIV/Hepatitis and they cut down on the number of calls that paramedics have to make.

That frees up beds, doctors and paramedics for everybody else to use.

I can understand the desire to just try to sweep drug users under the rug and pretend it's not our problem, but they're a strain on our system no matter what we do.

If we throw them in jail, we have to pay for that - and that means not paying for things we want or need. Letting them die in the streets still means paying people to clean up the corpses and find all the needles - not to mention the lawsuits and the drop in tourism revenue.

If we encourage drug users to inject in safe, clean conditions it's been proven to lessen their burden on our system - meaning there's more available for people who need it.

There are many things that we could do to lessen the strain on our health care system.

The first thing would to streamline the middle management/admin positions, and take back all of the space that were once hospital wards and not offices. That coupled with the new hospitals being built for providing health care, not as gargantuan architectural works of art with only a small percentage of the structure actually being dedicated to provide patient care.

The next thing we could do is introduce a pay-per-use fee for emergency. That would eliminate some of the hypochondriac "snifflers" with a cold/flu/sore finger, or who are using ambulances for a taxi service.

Maybe we could also give alcoholics safe "ingesting" sites at the hospital for binge drinking as well, so that the firefighters/police/paramedics wouldn't have to spend so much time picking them up off of the streets/sidewalks and bringing them in.

[mooseknuckle]

I really have feelings on both sides. I spent 2.5 years on east hastings doing heroin.... best drug ever!! That was many years ago. I'am a type 1! diabetic, have been for 15 years. I inject insulin a minimum of 4 times a day. When I was an addict I didn't have to pay for the needles... now I'm on the hook for something I have to control over. Costs me just shy of 1,000 per month to stay alive. I could pay less to have a really good time and kill myself? Some days, scratch that pretty much every day I question life.

Again touchy for this guy.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by mooseknuckle

I really have feelings on both sides. I spent 2.5 years on east hastings doing heroin.... best drug ever!! That was many years ago. I'am a type 1! diabetic, have been for 15 years. I inject insulin a minimum of 4 times a day. When I was an addict I didn't have to pay for the needles... now I'm on the hook for something I have to control over. Costs me just shy of 1,000 per month to stay alive. I could pay less to have a really good time and kill myself? Some days, scratch that pretty much every day I question life.

Again touchy for this guy.

A big thumbs up for being a heroin rehab success story, as you are one of the very few able to make that claim. I have have had some good friends who had battled drug addiction for many years, thankfully most have, through the support of friends/family/healthcare been able to get their respective monkeys off their back. Thanks for the candid response regarding this topic.

[ice]

Originally Posted by neilsledder

Should the cops not sit outside it and arrest them for possession?


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Aren't our jails full enough?

[SlimChance]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

There are many things that we could do to lessen the strain on our health care system.

The first thing would to streamline the middle management/admin positions, and take back all of the space that were once hospital wards and not offices. That coupled with the new hospitals being built for providing health care, not as gargantuan architectural works of art with only a small percentage of the structure actually being dedicated to provide patient care.

The next thing we could do is introduce a pay-per-use fee for emergency. That would eliminate some of the hypochondriac "snifflers" with a cold/flu/sore finger, or who are using ambulances for a taxi service.

Maybe we could also give alcoholics safe "ingesting" sites at the hospital for binge drinking as well, so that the firefighters/police/paramedics wouldn't have to spend so much time picking them up off of the streets/sidewalks and bringing them in.

It's already $385 for an ambulance ride to the hospital.
http://www.health.alberta.ca/services/EHS-who-pays.html

And sure, we can streamline middle management. We could definitely get more Hep C patients and overdosed addicts attended to with more efficient management. Or, we could cut down on the number of Hep C patients and overdoses so we just don't have to deal with as many in the first place.

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

I don’t think it’s such a bad thing. A guy can’t even take his kid down to Bower ponds without stepping on used condoms in the parking lot. At least the needles are being disposed of properly.

[neilsledder]

Originally Posted by ice

Aren't our jails full enough?

Yah they are we should just stop arresting criminals!



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[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by neilsledder

Yah they are we should just stop arresting criminals!

Love the understanding. Criminals eh?

How about teens that got addicted to Xanax - an antidepressant/antianxiety med that was prescribed as safe - but is now known to be much more addictive than heroin?
How about kids that have been fed adderral or ritalin? Prescribed by doctors, forced by parents for ADHD and the like?
Know anyone that got addicted to Oxycontin? Legally prescribed - marketed as the wonder drug, slow release and non-addictive? It's synthetic heroin, made in a lab. I don't know why anyone would seek out oxy to feed their addiction - it's clean, made by pharma, no unknowns unlike street drugs that can contain fentanyl or worse, carfentalyl.

The list goes on and on. There's a drug for everything today, if there isn't a disease or condition, create one to suit the drug.

Know anyone that's addicted? Ever watch someone come off these drugs?

[neilsledder]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Love the understanding. Criminals eh?



How about teens that got addicted to Xanax - an antidepressant/antianxiety med that was prescribed as safe - but is now known to be much more addictive than heroin?

How about kids that have been fed adderral or ritalin? Prescribed by doctors, forced by parents for ADHD and the like?

Know anyone that got addicted to Oxycontin? Legally prescribed - marketed as the wonder drug, slow release and non-addictive? It's synthetic heroin, made in a lab. I don't know why anyone would seek out oxy to feed their addiction - it's clean, made by pharma, no unknowns unlike street drugs that can contain fentanyl or worse, carfentalyl.



The list goes on and on. There's a drug for everything today, if there isn't a disease or condition, create one to suit the drug.



Know anyone that's addicted? Ever watch someone come off these drugs?

Sorry I keep thinking your typical crack head that breaks into you cars and house steals stuff just to get there next fix. I guess there the other side of it.


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[Spooner]

It's interesting to read some of these responses, knowing what we know now about the effects of criminalizing drugs.

I'm surprised how many people want to double down on destructive policy, despite clear evidence on how to reduce harm and save money.

This seems inspired by a real strong desire to equate these failed laws with moral superiority.

If you want to cut addicts loose, you should be willing to do the same to every beer belly holding a budweiser, the latter are a far bigger drain on the tax payer.

Pointing fingers and demonizing others is easy. Accepting personal responsibility, not so much.

[Spooner]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Love the understanding. Criminals eh?

How about teens that got addicted to Xanax - an antidepressant/antianxiety med that was prescribed as safe - but is now known to be much more addictive than heroin?
How about kids that have been fed adderral or ritalin? Prescribed by doctors, forced by parents for ADHD and the like?
Know anyone that got addicted to Oxycontin? Legally prescribed - marketed as the wonder drug, slow release and non-addictive? It's synthetic heroin, made in a lab. I don't know why anyone would seek out oxy to feed their addiction - it's clean, made by pharma, no unknowns unlike street drugs that can contain fentanyl or worse, carfentalyl.

The list goes on and on. There's a drug for everything today, if there isn't a disease or condition, create one to suit the drug.

Know anyone that's addicted? Ever watch someone come off these drugs?

Amazing to see people's inability to understand the issue and just provide an emotional reaction as if it is informed or valuable.

As you note, it's not so simple as "THEM BAD!"

[wally338]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Love the understanding. Criminals eh?

How about teens that got addicted to Xanax - an antidepressant/antianxiety med that was prescribed as safe - but is now known to be much more addictive than heroin?
How about kids that have been fed adderral or ritalin? Prescribed by doctors, forced by parents for ADHD and the like?
Know anyone that got addicted to Oxycontin? Legally prescribed - marketed as the wonder drug, slow release and non-addictive? It's synthetic heroin, made in a lab. I don't know why anyone would seek out oxy to feed their addiction - it's clean, made by pharma, no unknowns unlike street drugs that can contain fentanyl or worse, carfentalyl.

The list goes on and on. There's a drug for everything today, if there isn't a disease or condition, create one to suit the drug.

Know anyone that's addicted? Ever watch someone come off these drugs?

Like

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Spooner

It's interesting to read some of these responses, knowing what we know now about the effects of criminalizing drugs.

I'm surprised how many people want to double down on destructive policy, despite clear evidence on how to reduce harm and save money.

This seems inspired by a real strong desire to equate these failed laws with moral superiority.

If you want to cut addicts loose, you should be willing to do the same to every beer belly holding a budweiser, the latter are a far bigger drain on the tax payer.

Pointing fingers and demonizing others is easy. Accepting personal responsibility, not so much.

Care to tell us where this guy gets his money for his habit? How about the addict. Where does his come from.

And how is the beer drinker a bigger drain. Free beer sites?????

Maybe accept personal responsibility for your statements.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Care to tell us where this guy gets his money for his habit? How about the addict. Where does his come from.

And how is the beer drinker a bigger drain. Free beer sites?????

Maybe accept personal responsibility for your statements.

Like

[Spooner]

Tough point to grasp eh?

Aren't the crimes associated with addiction, motivation enough to provide basic services?

What's the legal blood alc % these days?

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Spooner

Tough point to grasp eh?

Aren't the crimes associated with addiction, motivation enough to provide basic services?

What's the legal blood alc % these days?

I understand you are having difficulty understanding what I said. Just do the best you can with what you have to work with.

Or you could try answering my questions instead of deflecting or changing the subject.

Any idea how much less an addict that visits one of these 'safe' sites steals than one who just shoots up wherever.

I do not see anything in the media about the drop in crime due to these sites. I also do not see the advantage of having a addict healthy enough to keep on stealing and dealing.

[Spooner]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

I understand you are having difficulty understanding what I said. Just do the best you can with what you have to work with.

Or you could try answering my questions instead of deflecting or changing the subject.

Any idea how much less an addict that visits one of these 'safe' sites steals than one who just shoots up wherever.

I do not see anything in the media about the drop in crime due to these sites. I also do not see the advantage of having a addict healthy enough to keep on stealing and dealing.

What is the savings for each person that doesn't acquire a blood born disease?

Like it or not, addicts have families and are part of the community.

The same way your friend with alcoholism has a family and is part of a community.

It's simple.

Trying to sweep them under the rug as we have been since the 1950's has been a glaring and overwhelming failure.

Despite your prejudices on the issue, the solution is clear.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Spooner

What is the savings for each person that doesn't acquire a blood born disease?

Like it or not, addicts have families and are part of the community.

The same way your friend with alcoholism has a family and is part of a community.

It's simple.

Trying to sweep them under the rug as we have been since the 1950's has been a glaring and overwhelming failure.

Despite your prejudices on the issue, the solution is clear.

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them ..........well you know.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

I understand you are having difficulty understanding what I said. Just do the best you can with what you have to work with.

Or you could try answering my questions instead of deflecting or changing the subject.

Any idea how much less an addict that visits one of these 'safe' sites steals than one who just shoots up wherever.

I do not see anything in the media about the drop in crime due to these sites. I also do not see the advantage of having a addict healthy enough to keep on stealing and dealing.

Lets take a trip to Portugal, they decriminalized pretty much all drugs in the year 2000. BC is prepping to try the same model. Feel free to have a read. It's a long article, so I'll just post a link - it's from vice.com

https://news.vice.com/article/ungass...weed-to-heroin

Remember when Trudeau stated he was going to legalize weed? What was the response from the majority here? It was the same in Portugal. From the article.

When Portugal decided to decriminalize in 2000, many skeptics assumed that the number of users would skyrocket.

The war on drugs isn't working, it's become a war on drug users. 30,000 OD's in Vancouver in a year and a half, people don't bat an eyelash. If it was 30,000 birds or whales washed up on shore, there would be outrage. I find that interesting. For some reason, drug users have become garbage in our society.

What's the harm in trying rehabilitation over criminalization?

[silverdoctor]

And I have to say Red - there's no possible way that you could be OK with society force feeding children amphetamines? How about methamphetamines? How about heroin?