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Old 11-18-2019, 12:59 PM
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Default 6.5 Creedmoor Coyotes & Pelt Damage.

What would yall recommend for a fur friendly round in this thing?
Knocked a few down with the 143ELDX bullets and it really destroyed them.

Picked up some 95Grain Federal loaded with Hornady Vmax.. although they seem to be designed specifically for coyotes (ya ya advertising) the 3300FPS muzzle velocity and weight of the bullet have me skeptical about it. Anything under couple hundred yards out I think would take huge damage from these ballistic tips.

Also have some 140Grain American Gunner ammo.. BTHP open tip. the ones that everyone recommends you don't hunt deer with due to fragmentation. Thinking that this may reduce the damage especially if it fragments to the point of no exit wound.

Question being between the 2, for coyotes only, with an average 100-300 yards.

Does anyone else think that the BTHP 140 grain American Gunner would give less pelt damage in this case or is it just a losing battle with this chambering that isn't hand loaded light.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:08 PM
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I have been trying to get a load with heavy bullets in my 6mm creedmoor and like you said it's a losing battle. I think your best bet with the 6.5 is to go for the hardest slow expanding bullet you can get. Sometimes target bullets with small hollow points will hold together on soft coyotes. if you reload Berger vld or Sierra matchkings might be worth trying.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:50 PM
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The best fur friendly suggestion I have for you and the 6.5 is to set it aside and use a 204 ruger.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foonus View Post
What would yall recommend for a fur friendly round in this thing?
Knocked a few down with the 143ELDX bullets and it really destroyed them.

Picked up some 95Grain Federal loaded with Hornady Vmax.. although they seem to be designed specifically for coyotes (ya ya advertising) the 3300FPS muzzle velocity and weight of the bullet have me skeptical about it. Anything under couple hundred yards out I think would take huge damage from these ballistic tips.

Also have some 140Grain American Gunner ammo.. BTHP open tip. the ones that everyone recommends you don't hunt deer with due to fragmentation. Thinking that this may reduce the damage especially if it fragments to the point of no exit wound.

Question being between the 2, for coyotes only, with an average 100-300 yards.

Does anyone else think that the BTHP 140 grain American Gunner would give less pelt damage in this case or is it just a losing battle with this chambering that isn't hand loaded light.
I used the 243 58 gr on yotes for some years--On times extreme fun damage.The 6.5 creedmoor the ideal deer caliber--for yotes no.The idea yote cal 22.250--Looks like have to bite the Bullet and purchase another gun--A fun gun on the range,no problem on gong ringing 4-500m.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:21 PM
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I would recommend a monolithic bullet or changing up to a 223 and using FMJ bullets. I have dropped coyotes out to 400 yards with 55gr FMJs and they are very fur friendly. I have seen what a 22250 does to a coyote under 100 yards and it isn't pretty.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteman View Post
I used the 243 58 gr on yotes for some years--On times extreme fun damage.The 6.5 creedmoor the ideal deer caliber--for yotes no.The idea yote cal 22.250--Looks like have to bite the Bullet and purchase another gun--A fun gun on the range,no problem on gong ringing 4-500m.
Id take it both of you wouldn't even bother trying the 95 grain ballistic tips then...

Ironic you mentioned it, this whole mess comes about due to trying to save hundreds on a FFP scope with greater than 15x magnification. The 22-250 I got one of the pencil barrel tika tx3's, great out to a couple hundred yards but after that groupings started to look like trash compared to the 6.5. Its sitting in the closet, was one of my first guns and made the mistake of a fixed 10x Burris Elite Tactical optic on it.
Worst of both worlds (close range moving targets and 300+ yards) for coyotes.


Was looking at
https://www.cabelas.ca/product/11910...fp-riflescopes
but it will require higher rings so close to $700 when all is said and done. I have the PSTII on the 6.5 and find I am generally using 15 or 16 magnification when I take most shots (old eyes too), otherwise would just pick up a Leopold 3-9 and be done with it.

Moving scopes gets old, and possibility to damage them every time even just by the old coot dropping it.. I moved the PSTII from 17WSM from gopher season and then back to the 6.5 for deer but ffs.. don't want to get playing revolving chairs with half a dozen rifles and optics.

But ya, that's long and short of it, answer seems to be same as with most things. "more money required".

Last edited by Foonus; 11-18-2019 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smith88 View Post
I have seen what a 22250 does to a coyote under 100 yards and it isn't pretty.
Seen exactly that with the 22-250 close range when aiming for vitals.
The ballistic tips are really nasty under 100 yards.
I didn't think the 95 grain would do that much more with correct shot placement, noteing that many shooters are taking rib shots at that range to prevent early expansion (explosion) and still giving it enough resistance and mass to keep a lot of the hydrostatic shock in the chest cavity, hopefully avoiding entry damage or ripping out the other side.
Might be time to look away from Hornady, as every solution they have for this chambering is loaded with V-Max ballistic tips.
Then again I've shot them with a 9mm Carbine and the lack luster performance of that chambering just pokes holes in them unless you hit a vital so there is SOME need for energy dump into the coyote.

Last edited by Foonus; 11-18-2019 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foonus
Moving scopes gets old, and possibility to damage them every time even just by the old coot dropping it.. I moved the PSTII from 17WSM from gopher season and then back to the 6.5 for deer ...
I realize some may suggest that this was a mistake and I should have just used the 20Grain 17WSM rounds. Without insult I see them as about as much marketing gimmick as the 95Grain 6.5s with nothing but coyotes all over the box.
I have shot several coyotes with the 20 grain 17WSM's.
I should rephrase that to say I have shot coyotes several times with the 17WSM, as several shots were required on a runner with just "splash damage" done to the pelt every time.
If you hit a shoulder, leg or even a rib, it WILL explode without penetrating deep enough to not take a chunk out of the pelt right there at the surface, and just send the cripple running away educated.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:14 PM
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If you already have the 22-250 then just use your 10x scope and get out there and start hunting. I have been using a variety of 90-107 grain bullets in my 6mm and so far I have yet to see one that doesn't dang near cut em in half and I don't see that changing in 6.5.
My "go to" calling rifle wears a standard cheap 3x9 scope and it almost never comes off of 9x so your fixed 10 won't be as bad as you think.
As far as long range shooting on coyotes. Probably %90 of the shots you get at coyotes are under 400 yards and with a tikka 22-250 you should be able to get a gun accurate enough to do that job just fine.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:23 PM
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Nothing over .224 caliber is really fur friendly IMHO. Sure you have moments of low damage but generally the rapid displacement of meat and bone does damage to pelts

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Old 11-18-2019, 03:39 PM
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With bullets in that weight range, anything fragmentation designed would be likely to make a mess as their body just isn't big enough to hold it all in so to speak.

Have you tried a Barnes TSX or TTSX or one of the other monometal designs?

I'm not sure what's out there in that caliber.

You'd probably get little to no expansion depending on the range , but would likely be better than trying to find an expanding bullet that would stay inside.

Lack of expansion wouldn't concern me, they're not that hard to kill if the shot's placed correctly. Where poor expansion can cause problems is when you gut shoot them. They can go a long ways.

But there again that comes back to shot placement, which is always king.
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Old 11-18-2019, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YYC338 View Post
Have you tried a Barnes TSX or TTSX or one of the other monometal designs?
The Barnes VOR-TX 50Gr TSX shoot extremely consistently with the T3x in 22-250, but the point of impact shift from the Hornady even at 100 yard target was substantial enough to not be able to swap between the 2 without optics adjustment. Surprisingly more in the windage than elevation, consistently right of point of aim yet still MOA.

Was only able to get one box if it and Cabela's has since stopped carrying it so defaulted to the Hornady 55 Vmax as they are available anywhere here.

After reading some detailed posts about the Hornady V-max vs noslers of same weight ballistic tip equivalent it seems shooters are choosing the latter as the bullet seems to have more weight retention than the Vmax and does not "blow up" as easily if you hit solid bone , it is build with a bit heavier back end to achieve this.
https://www.nosler.com/trophy-grade-varmint-ammunition/

Nosler also has(had) a "Varmageddon" line that was also 55Gr FB Hollow point and these were again MOA accurate and build the same way as the Barnes , yet same point of impact as the Hornady's. Unfortunately bought them 3 years ago and haven't seen them for sale anywhere since.

Last edited by Foonus; 11-18-2019 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 04:17 PM
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I have used the 90 grain Speer TNT in the past in my 6.5X55's, and it did well with a lower velocity load , and really well at long range.
That bullet in the Creedmoor should not be an issue as it has less velocity than the 6.5X55.
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Old 11-18-2019, 04:22 PM
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Last year I used 69gr Scenar target bullets in my .223. Small hole in, small hole out. The gun is just to heavy to drag around though, so this year I will be using a .243 with 70 gr. Hollow point matchkings. Hoping for the same results.
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Old 11-18-2019, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
I have used the 90 grain Speer TNT in the past in my 6.5X55's, and it did well with a lower velocity load , and really well at long range.
That bullet in the Creedmoor should not be an issue as it has less velocity than the 6.5X55.
Cat
You recall off hand what the muzzle velocity is at that load? Main thing putting me off the 95 grain vmax in 6.5 is the 3300 muzzle velocity that only creeps down to 2800 at 200 yards.. can imagine this isn't good with a ballistic tip as my 143Gr eldx's at 2700 fps muzzle push a cue ball sized hold though both sides of the pelt. Shot below was between 180 -190 yards.
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Last edited by Foonus; 11-18-2019 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 05:43 PM
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Excuse my ignorance but what about more of a match style bullet? Would they be too "durable" of a bullet and not allow enough, if any, expansion?
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Old 11-18-2019, 05:55 PM
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That's exactly what I was thinking about the BTHP 140 grain American Gunners but apparently its so unpredictably frangible that it creates a mess. They are made to shoot paper, not as a hunting round; their performance in the latter is irrelevant to the development team. On top of that its still almost 3x the grain weight of a 22-250 @55Gr. that has to be accounted for.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:12 PM
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I have had a few pet loads over the years, on both ends of the scale.
My 22-250 was the ultimate with nosler solid-base (no longer produced) 55 gr.bullets . One hole in, one whole out.
On the higher end of the scale, P-17 in 30-06 with 2-220 gr bullets. Same thing. One hole. No chance to expand.
Bullet choice should take precedent over caliber. Shot placement is obviously key as well! Raking shots at running dogs will do damage every time, and hitting large bones with large calibers aint pretty either.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foonus View Post
You recall off hand what the muzzle velocity is at that load? Main thing putting me off the 95 grain vmax in 6.5 is the 3300 muzzle velocity that only creeps down to 2800 at 200 yards.. can imagine this isn't good with a ballistic tip as my 143Gr eldx's at 2700 fps muzzle push a cue ball sized hold though both sides of the pelt. Shot below was between 180 -190 yards.
They were running about 2960 out of my ‘96’s with H 4895
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
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They were running about 2960 out of my ‘96’s with H 4895
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Thanks. That seems much more reasonable. Those Federal 95's at 3300 muzzle are way too hot IMO.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:18 PM
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I've shot coyotes with all the small calibers and am back down to the .22 hornet. Too much sewing with the bone smashers.
I'm not a long range guy tho. Shotgun with large pellets works best at close range.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:26 PM
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Thank you to everyone that gave an opinion. Definitely seems like there is a reason most are pointing to the 22-250 as the best tool for the job, that said why screw around, got my deer tag filled this year so likely won't be digging out the 6.5 much this winter.

Was looking it over and realized I had put a ATRS T3x rail on the creedmoor…
wait a minute this thing fits on the 22-250 as well, 20 minutes later.. just gotta dial her in now for the different rifle and set my zero stop

Dug out a good amount of rounds for her too, forgot I had that many of them, stocked up on a lot number that shot well.
Just need some coys now that haven't heard FoxPro jackrabbit distress yet.. GL with that.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:43 PM
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I have had pretty good luck with Berger 140 gr. VLD Hunting bullets....they don't open up very much and seem to drop yotes pretty quick and scary accurate. I am shooting them out of a 6.5x55 but it is a near ballistic twin to the Creedmore out of my rifle.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:43 PM
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In a .22-250 I like the 52-53gr AMAX on pelts.

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Old 11-18-2019, 09:06 PM
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I have been shooting a .243 on coyotes for many -many, years say 40+. took a long time of trial & error & after much experimentation have learned that the heavier high BC. bullets designed for larger game like antelope/ deer are definitely the answer with this caliber, for coyote. I have used 100gr. hornady interlocks @ 3050fps. / 87 gr. berger vld. hunting @ 3180 fps./ and this year I'm trying 90gr. Berger BT. target .@ 3165fps. the first two bullets if you stay off bone of course -- left about quarter size exit holes which works for me. I've yet to try the 90's -- but seeing how the 87's performed last year / I don't think they would be much different. All of the above shoot well under 1/2 moa. with select loads. I have used v-max's or shall I say polymer tips and can say without reservation -- I will never use them again on coyote-- cause they trash them. ----
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Old 11-19-2019, 06:52 AM
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From similar experience I agree with interlocks of 100gr in the 243 and 140 barnes in the 6.5. Thw 80gr ttsx in the 243 have worked very well. I have had no problems with 95 gr vax or 85gr Sierra out of theb6.5 at about 3000fps
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Old 11-19-2019, 07:03 AM
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I've had good luck with a .243 with 95gr SST.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:23 AM
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I'm loading the 129 grain Interlock for my Nephew for deer,with the small body mass of a Yote they might not expand as much for less damage.
Hornady uses them in their 6.5 CM American White tail factory ammo,plus they're not expensive.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:38 AM
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I've had the best fur luck so far with a 17 hornet and a 20 gr bullet. Verified one shot kill at 297 yards. (checked with a rangefinder). There's one very tiny pin hole going in, and no exit. I've shot coyotes at 50 yards up to just a hair under 300. All were one shot kills. No sewing up damage, no mess. The entry hole won't even fit the whole tip of a pen.

So, if you're looking at a different rifle, or a rifle to trade for, I'd look at a 17 hornet or a 17 remington.
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Old 11-19-2019, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amosfella View Post
I've had the best fur luck so far with a 17 hornet and a 20 gr bullet. Verified one shot kill at 297 yards. (checked with a rangefinder). There's one very tiny pin hole going in, and no exit. I've shot coyotes at 50 yards up to just a hair under 300. All were one shot kills. No sewing up damage, no mess. The entry hole won't even fit the whole tip of a pen.

So, if you're looking at a different rifle, or a rifle to trade for, I'd look at a 17 hornet or a 17 remington.
I can see your combo working well for minimum damage. Relating to my post above ,I also have used my 22-250 with 52 sierra matchkings @ 3765 fps & crazy accurate-- I think it's a great coyote round, but it has sat in the safe for the last 2 seasons-- not cause I don't like it - but hunting on the southern Alberta prairies - there is almost always wind. I consistently grab my .243's with the heavy high BC. bullets mainly because it drifts about 8 to 10" less at 400yds. than my 22-250, and by 250yds. those heavier slugs are already surpassing my 22-250 in speed as well due to superior BC. & profile. So from 250 yds. on out to where ever a yote decides to hang up -- especially in the wind -- the .243 is my champ. Theres also tons of energy to anchor a dog as well -- around 950 ft. lbs. still at 500 yds. where my .22 centerfires are getting iffy -- pertaining to runners.
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