Hunting with an Atlatl

[albertaatlatl]

The executives at the ABA meeting did not state they were for or against the use of spears/Atlatls. What was motioned and voted on, much to the dismay of a few members, was for the ABA executives to bring an info package to AGMAG on behalf of me. One lady in front, after reading both the first proposal and the define a legal weapon proposal, stated "this appears to be written by someone using semantics to cloak intent" which quickly quieted the board. That says alot. I asked Mr. Watson how a delegate of this small group of hunters can sit at the AGMAG table, and was responded to that it was impossible. A representative of HFT was there and stated the contrary, that it is a lengthy process and ALMOST impossible. Further stating that te process would be too long to get any relative info to the table in time. The motion was put forth to the ABA membership to allow the ABA executives to bring an info package on my behalf. The votes counted and written in the minutes that this would happen. The ABA executives DID NOT state the ABA position on the use of these tools. It was inferred that the previous proposal to ban was lifted, but it was not verified. Walkingbuffalo has a valid point that it may still stand, being cloakef by the define a legal weapon proposal. Our info package is nearly completed and will be sent to the ABA,AFGa, and HFT.

[albertaatlatl]

There is still a few people that think we throw Atlatls. Just a note... an Atlatl is a narrow rod or board used to throw a long slender arrow, by a throwing motion of the arm. Look back earlier in this post for pics on what an Atlatl is. We just filmed using an Atlatl in thick cover, as well as from a treestand. I'll post the vids as soon as they are downloaded.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Look forward to the videos!

LC

[albertaatlatl]

Originally Posted by nekred

Archery was once viewed in the same light and there were no regulations in place for archery then. The ABA formed and lobbied to get archery included as a legal and efficient method for harvesting game, by setting specifics and providing information and they even got their own season by showing that this was a very good managment tool because it was quiet and less intrusive in more populated areas such as around Edmonton and Calgary creating the archery only zones. Over time with more lobbying it became even more widespread as a valid game management tool and thus where we are today. When dealing with government you have to put things in terms they accept/want such as "management tool" "less intrusive" "environmentally sustainable" etc. etc. etc.

Right now the atlatl hunters fall into a loophole. if you want to expand your ranks; many people are not comfortable living in a loophole because it can be closed very quickly. ESRD has the power to make a ruling and they don't need any association to ask for it. That is only a courtesy.

As for the sleeping dog... guys it is already awake and barking! and this has to be dealt with... It is in Forums, outdoors media and is going to hit mainstream media and imagine how the anti-huntig crowd will look at things and see a way where they can get an easy win....Some people have looked at this as a rabid big dangerous dog and others are looking at it like a puppy.... it is hard to get the cat back into the bag now or close the can of worms....pick your metaphor!....

Do you not understand that you are one civil servants ruling away from being able to hunt in the manner you have chosen. I would not like to see that personally, while I do not hunt with an atlatl I belive it is a viable harvesting practice.

How do you know there are not more atlatl hunters in alberta? You have stated your numbers are at 4... how do you back this up... politically you have just marginalized yourself and the minister in charge of ESRD can decide the political fallout from making your hunting practice illegal is minimal....or even beneficial!... if it makes others more happy...especially if it appeases the anti-hunting crowd....by throwing the atlatl guys under the bus.

Just going to address one line here. I have no idea exactly how many atlatl hunters are in Alberta. What I do know is I have been contacted by less than a dozen hunters thinking of using them, and only 4 who have. Keep in mind that most hunters and antis have never heard of an Atlatl, as shown in this thread, and until very shortly ago very few knew you can hunt with them. What I know for sure, is that Atlatls are resurging across North America as a viable hunting tool. More States are looking at the use of them, and so is Alberta. Yes there is a small group of us, the same was with bowhunters 30 yrs ago, and we will fight for the right to use our tool of choice. The Alberta Primitive Skills Society is in the final stages, and will be finished very soon. We need a bigger voice, and this forum has shown there is one. We NEED letters to the hunting groups in support of Atlatls and Spears so we do not lose the right to hunt with other primitive means.

[albertaatlatl]

Just read and posted on the spear hunting thread. There's a lot more spear hunters than I realized. Guys, write the organizations that sit on the AGMAG table and ask for their prospectuve stance on Atlatl/Spear hunting! Make sure the executives (induvidually) each receive YOUR stance on the issue! This issue, which should be a non-issue, is about to change our hunting rights and abitilities in this great province. I for one will not stand by and let this happen!! I'm only one voice, and need your help! I'm going to fight this, and the revised proposal with all I have!! Going in with both barrels blazing!! Send your replies to www.albertaatlatl.ca. WE NEED TO STAND TOGETHER!!

[waterfowler1969]

There are a lot that don't care and or are against them. I bet they will be banned in Alberta.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by albertaatlatl

Just read and posted on the spear hunting thread. There's a lot more spear hunters than I realized. Guys, write the organizations that sit on the AGMAG table and ask for their prospectuve stance on Atlatl/Spear hunting! Make sure the executives (induvidually) each receive YOUR stance on the issue! This issue, which should be a non-issue, is about to change our hunting rights and abitilities in this great province. I for one will not stand by and let this happen!! I'm only one voice, and need your help! I'm going to fight this, and the revised proposal with all I have!! Going in with both barrels blazing!! Send your replies to www.albertaatlatl.ca. WE NEED TO STAND TOGETHER!!

Did you mean www.albertaatlatl.com



Well, it is true that the ABA likes to get out the ban hammer, hey Waterfowler?

[nekred]

Originally Posted by albertaatlatl

Just going to address one line here. I have no idea exactly how many atlatl hunters are in Alberta. What I do know is I have been contacted by less than a dozen hunters thinking of using them, and only 4 who have. Keep in mind that most hunters and antis have never heard of an Atlatl, as shown in this thread, and until very shortly ago very few knew you can hunt with them. What I know for sure, is that Atlatls are resurging across North America as a viable hunting tool. More States are looking at the use of them, and so is Alberta. Yes there is a small group of us, the same was with bowhunters 30 yrs ago, and we will fight for the right to use our tool of choice. The Alberta Primitive Skills Society is in the final stages, and will be finished very soon. We need a bigger voice, and this forum has shown there is one. We NEED letters to the hunting groups in support of Atlatls and Spears so we do not lose the right to hunt with other primitive means.

Good reasonable post;


Have you looked at the fact that this is a historical method used in North America and the cultural heritage argument? As it is a very powerful argument.

Over the years as technology has progressed and the primary reason for hunting was food, people chose to use the most technologically advanced method vailable to them for hunting. Until now with advent of "sport" hunting or hunting for reasons other than purely as subsistence has eveolved that in order to improve the hunting experience or to get in touch with cultural roots other methods of harvesting have become the norm that require added skill, work or patience such as archery hunting.

One interesting thing is that accruacy of rifles in 1700-1800 was developed and improved because of hunting, specifically buffalo hunting with improvement of Sharps rifles to where these "buffalo guns" started being used in the Civil wat creating a whole new term of "Sharps' Shooters". Now it has turned around again where developments in long range shooting by the military have now provided impetus to long range shooting in hunting technology.

To me how one hunts as long as it is in accordance with law is a matter of personal preference. My goal one day is to harvest an animal with a self made longbow complete with natural made string with flint-knapped arrowheads made and fletched from local materials I have gathered and made myself and then display the harvested animal along with the harvesting tools in a display case for my own enjoyment and also in respect to the animal that provided the experience.

I also have a goal one day of harvesting a grizzly with a longbow and no matter what someone else thinks of it I will do it in accordance with law. (meaning i will have to hunt elsewhere)

On another point of ethics, since aboriginal hunting rights have been enshrined in law, for me buying a license and hunting within established seasons is actually voluntary for me but I believe that all hunters should have same rights and responsibilities when it comes to ensuring they harvest their game humanely and within the law and within principles of sustainability as identified in a central wildlife managment process.

The cultural argument is so strong that a group of folks in BC actually got away with pit-lamping by using the cultural/historical/heritage argument!....

I see two steps to protecting the use of an atlatl...

1) establish a cultural argument for their use

2) establish criteria to ensure the humane harvesting specifications with research.

If we actually look at the proposal ABA passed at the AGM the ABA is actually assisting with #2 not working against it.

[albertaatlatl]

Thanks walkingbuffalo, our contact is www.albertaatlatl.com for webpage (being updated) and albertaatlatl@yahoo.ca for email. Sorry about that folks!

[albertaatlatl]

Thanks nekred for your input. I will most definitely put it to use.

[greylynx]

Sold out in Edmonton.

http://www.cabelas.ca/product/1974/c...eel-boar-spear

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Did you mean www.albertaatlatl.com



Well, it is true that the ABA likes to get out the ban hammer, hey Waterfowler?

I don't know what you are talking about like always. I sure do hope they ban these devices from hunting in Alberta. Keep up your trolling WB.

[BigRackLover]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

There are a lot that don't care and or are against them. I bet they will be banned in Alberta.

likely, unless enough speak up.

Personally I think there are more important issues in alberta that have a much larger impact to the entire hunting community.

Regulation around tools equipment is found in any sport, no reason hunting should be different.

Time will tell

[HunterDave]

Let's face the facts here, the ABA is against any method of hunting unless it's a bow.....plain and simple. If they could find a way to ban rifles and make the only means of hunting in Alberta a bow, they'd do it. To me groups like this do far more harm and are much more dangerous than any anti-hunting group anywhere, and that includes PETA, because PETA doesn't have a voice at AGMAG and other ESRD meetings. IMO the ABA as the enemy within.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

likely, unless enough speak up.

Personally I think there are more important issues in alberta that have a much larger impact to the entire hunting community.

Regulation around tools equipment is found in any sport, no reason hunting should be different.

Time will tell

There are WAY more important things than this but most can only see the small picture and worry about them selves. Very sad but true.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Let's face the facts here, the ABA is against any method of hunting unless it's a bow.....plain and simple. If they could find a way to ban rifles and make the only means of hunting in Alberta a bow, they'd do it. To me groups like this do far more harm and are much more dangerous than any anti-hunting group anywhere, and that includes PETA, because PETA doesn't have a voice at AGMAG and other ESRD meetings. IMO the ABA as the enemy within.

What does ABA stand for? Alberta BOWHUNTERS association. Second they look out for everybody and there interests but of course they will look out for all bow hunters as that is there group that they have to look out for. Dave you seem to be against bow hunters so why don't you get a rifle group together so you have your voice herd louder.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

Personally I think there are more important issues in alberta that have a much larger impact to the entire hunting community.

Yeah, you're right, there are much more important issues in Alberta to deal with but the ABA has blinders on when it comes to the issues in the hunting community. They are a one trick pony and care about bows, and that's it. They don't care if a rifle hunter gets his cow moose or how many vehicle collisons there are in Leduc County, change it to bow only similar to wmu 248. As long as bowhunters have more opportunity, no one else matters. That's how they work, screw everyone else over......this time the spear and atlatl hunters because they appeared to be easy pickins. Does anyone think that they wouldn't do it to rifle hunters if they thought that they could.....you bet that they would, if they could!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

What does ABA stand for? Alberta BOWHUNTERS association. Second they look out for everybody and there interests but of course they will look out for all bow hunters as that is there group that they have to look out for. Dave you seem to be against bow hunters so why don't you get a rifle group together so you have your voice herd louder.

So, you agree with me then. The ABA cares about bows ONLY, and screw everyone else. They in no way shape or form look out, nor care about anyone other than bowhunters.....that's it. I bowhunt with a crossbow and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the ABA had them lined up with the spears and atlatls to get them banned. The ABA is undoubtedly IMO the worst hunting organization for the betterment of all hunters in Alberta. They would strip away every hunter's opportunity if he didn't hunt with a bow......absolutely no doubt about it.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by waterfowler1969

What does ABA stand for? Alberta BOWHUNTERS association. Second they look out for everybody and there interests but of course they will look out for all bow hunters as that is there group that they have to look out for. Dave you seem to be against bow hunters so why don't you get a rifle group together so you have your voice herd louder.

BS! Give me one example of where the ABA looked out for EVERYONE's interests because I know of no examples of that. They would throw every non-bowhunter under the bus faster than you could say cardboard submarine. Who are you trying to kid? I'm glad that the word is finally getting out about what the ABA is all about and I hope that any ABA members that have a moral conscience don't renew their memberships.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

likely, unless enough speak up.

Personally I think there are more important issues in alberta that have a much larger impact to the entire hunting community.

Regulation around tools equipment is found in any sport, no reason hunting should be different.

Time will tell

There certainly are more important issues.

So why is the ABA executive continuing with the position desiring to have Spears/Atlatls banned?

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

BS! Give me one example of where the ABA looked out for EVERYONE's interests because I know of no examples of that. They would throw every non-bowhunter under the bus faster than you could say cardboard submarine. Who are you trying to kid? I'm glad that the word is finally getting out about what the ABA is all about and I hope that any ABA members that have a moral conscience don't renew their memberships.

Maybe this one is for the betterment of all hunters? Any ABA execs care to explain how this in not another regulation proposal specifically lobbying for bowhunters at the expense of other weapon users?

The May 2013 ABA regulation proposal for the 2015 season.

• ABA – change elk to 6-point in select zones for rifle only.
o No discussion, stakeholders will discuss with membership

[boschman158]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Let's face the facts here, the ABA is against any method of hunting unless it's a bow.....plain and simple. If they could find a way to ban rifles and make the only means of hunting in Alberta a bow, they'd do it. To me groups like this do far more harm and are much more dangerous than any anti-hunting group anywhere, and that includes PETA, because PETA doesn't have a voice at AGMAG and other ESRD meetings. IMO the ABA as the enemy within.

Dave, I know for sure one thing the aba did for the hunters accross the board was fight for sunday hunting, I also know they do alot for the future hunters of alberta, not just future bow hunters. For a thread on how hunters should stand to gether with other hunters and hunter groups that dont see eye to eye on all levels, this quote seems to be counter productive, Do you agree?

My 2 cents, take it or leave it
Dan

[albertaatlatl]

The ABA stated at the GM that they are a BOWHUNTING organization only. The talk on Spears and Atlatls came down to no outright stance on the ABA, for or against, but rather they will bring our info to AGMAG. The stance of the ABAis that they are BOWHUNTERS not SPEAR hunters. The general consensus of the present members was that the ABA should not involve itself with this group. I was at the meeting, and found it concerning that the ABA wants more hunting oportunities for various species, archery only, and seemingly at the cost of other hunters. I would still like to know what the official stance of the ABA executives is, and that of their members too! Seems that a lot of hunters aren't persuaded one way or the other. There are more important issues that concern hunters than a small group of spearhunters. HOWEVER, this issue has sparked a wildfire. I believe that the intent if this issue is to cloak a larger issue of prohibiting Primitive Hunting methods and tools all together. For example stone points on arrows! There is no reg stating their use, so, why not prohibit them too. The Regs do not state a bow as being a wood bow or compound! Just a bow with a draw weight of 40# @ 28 in. Why not prohibit compounds.Why not prohibit handmade self bows, carbon arrows, screw in points, etc. It's idiocy at it's finest. The fact is, the Regs are up for renewal and certain groups are getting their 2bits in at the expense of others. I know that the hunters in this province care a great deal about our right to hunt, but we NEED to speak up to these groups! Pulling your membership helps NOTHING!!! Members of an organization have the right and obligation to voice and vote what their execs do, and how it gets done!! That's why we have rules of conduct, bylaws, and constitutions. HOLD YOUR EXECS TO IT!!!
Write them INDIVIDUALLY and voice your concers, get their stances!!

[petew]

The more I read this thread the more it is turning into a BASH the ABA thread , rather than a support Atalal thread.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by petew

The more I read this thread the more it is turning into a BASH the ABA thread , rather than a support Atalal thread.

Yep people always need to point there finger at someone other than them selves. The biggest problem is every group has had some real bad proposals AFGA has had some of the dumbest to date in the last couple years. Most are to keep giving out more tags for rifle hunters to slaughter the province worse than it already has been. So as a whole all hunters are just as guilty in worrying about there own groups or there weapon choice. Last time I checked all groups try and look out for all users first but most get side track with there own personal views instead of there groups.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by boschman158

For a thread on how hunters should stand to gether with other hunters and hunter groups that dont see eye to eye on all levels, this quote seems to be counter productive, Do you agree?

My opinion is that the ABA position(s) are counter productive to all hunters standing united. When a so called hunting organization targets groups that hunt with a different tool other than a bow, that is not standing united with all hunters. I'll call a spade a spade all day long and into the night if it is what it is. Ignoring the 10 ton elephant in the room is not my style.

How about you tell me, how is the ABA's position on atlatl and spears standing united with hunters that chose that method of hunting?

The ABA deserves to be bashed, they earned it, and I don't care who it ticks off.

[petew]

This cause just lost my support.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by petew

This cause just lost my support.

I'm sure that you will find a way to rationalize your position. Just don't be surprised and whine about anyone taking exception to it if you support the ABA's proposal to ban spears and atlatl.

[Full Curl Earl]

If you can hurl a thumb tack fast enough and accurate enough to kill big game then I am accepting of it, but you should have to prove it, and provide scientific data in support, not just jaw service. I am very surprised its legal when Alberta states you need 40 lb for a bow, yet no regulating requirements for Atlatl or spears, I am glad this was brought to light, seems like this loophole/ gap is where some attention should be spent.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

Personally I think there are more important issues in alberta that have a much larger impact to the entire hunting community.

After 10 pages this ^^^^is the only thing that really makes sense here.

The ABA is a special interest group. Fact.
Alberta Atlatl is another special interest group. Fact.
After 10 pages it comes out that they are not only a special interest group, but also a business. Fact. Using this issue, at the expense of more important ones, to advertise their business. For free, possibly against forum rules....

What I take out of this is, that whichever group is looking after the general resident hunter, is doing a pretty poor job considering that this is drowning out more important issues.