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  #271  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:20 PM
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THanks sheephunter , it's clearer now !
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  #272  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:23 PM
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THanks sheephunter , it's clearer now !
Like mud hey......
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  #273  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:30 PM
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ISHOOTBAMBI here are the ages of my rams from what I can see.
7.5
9.5
8.5
4.5
11.5
9.5
6.5
Most of you probably think I am a sheep pig but oh well. I love sheep hunting and I have said it time and time again it ain't the size of the ram that makes the hunt. I enjoy having them on my wall to remember the hunts. I won't shoot every legal ram I see but when I feel like killing one I don't really have a problem with choosing one size or another.
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  #274  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:35 PM
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Hello all,

My opinion on this matter is simple and will echo some of the others who have already posted. It would be an abomination if the residents (who own the resource) were restricted to a draw system or longer wait times without significant reduction (95%) in outfitter allocations. Can you imagine having to wait 5 years before you could hunt a sheep while non-resident aliens (non-Canadians) could hunt and harvest a sheep annually?? This is already a significant problem in this province with other species, such as antelope. Why are we, the residents, allowing this to continue to happen??

Malt
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  #275  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post
ISHOOTBAMBI here are the ages of my rams from what I can see.
7.5
9.5
8.5
4.5
11.5
9.5
6.5
Most of you probably think I am a sheep pig but oh well. I love sheep hunting and I have said it time and time again it ain't the size of the ram that makes the hunt. I enjoy having them on my wall to remember the hunts. I won't shoot every legal ram I see but when I feel like killing one I don't really have a problem with choosing one size or another.
Ya know nube, I dont really think it matters what someone else thinks anyways. You killed them legally and in the way that is set out for sheep hunters in Alberta. If you didnt kill them, theres a good chance someone else was going to anyways. Some guys get pretty self righteous about whether you should shoot or pass on sheep just because you've shot one or two.

Every hunter should have the right to hunt how they want and harvest accordingly if they are doing it legally. Just because some wont agree, no need to justify IMO....
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  #276  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:49 PM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
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check my last post.....thats exactly what i said. its also the exact reason there are so few big trophy rams in alberta. congratulations x7, or x3 or x1, whichever applies to you.
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  #277  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:49 PM
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Thats a quick growing ram @ 4.5yrs, i like the attitude about enjoying the hunt for what it is and not just the # of inches to determine success! The bigger are truely very nice, but everyone was probably an amzing adventure!

Hate to have someone belittle anyone for a legal animal no matter the species,just because it doesn't have a big enough number, but especially the really hard earned ones ! Some of my best memmories aren't the biggest on my wall!
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  #278  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:51 PM
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I agree Rack but there are sure a lot of guys that are ****ed about it. I take heat about it all the time. Why is that? Is it because they have not had a chance to kill a legal ram or 2 themselves or is it something else?
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  #279  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:52 PM
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I agree Rack but there are sure a lot of guys that are ****ed about it. I take heat about it all the time. Why is that? Is it because they have not had a chance to kill a legal ram or 2 themselves or is it something else?
I say it's jealousy! plain and simple ! quit whining and start hiking !
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  #280  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:59 PM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
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lololol.....of all the guys who have posted in this thread, i have not seen jealousy from any. what i have seen is desire for more big mature rams on the mountain, and some different ideas on how to make that happen. there has also been desire to have ample opportunity to hunt and thats already happening. unless i missed something, i dont see jealousy from anyone?
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  #281  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:02 PM
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ISHOOTBAMBI, from your comments It seems like I have wrecked it for you to have a QUALITY hunt here in alberta. I am sorry I have killed all of those B+C animals you had hoped to kill. I have killed one book ram and I missed another one that would have gone over 40 inches and was twisting out away from his head as he was running away. I should have had him and if I did it would have been 2 book rams for me. I feel there is a quality amount of rams in our hills. If you want one get busy, work your butt off and go get one. Stop using the guys who kill legal rams as an excuse.
I'd like to know what you have passed up, how much you do get out and how many years you have been chasing sheep?
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  #282  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:18 PM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
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i guess you missed that post. i have hunted a grand total of 6 days and have killed one ram that scores 160 and is 7 years old. noone told me where to go, i just analyzed topo maps and used all of the information i have read and heard about preferred sheep habitat, picked a likely looking spot, hiked 21km according to my gps, and had a fantastic, memorable hunt. the reason i waited until 37 years old to start hunting sheep is simple. the guys i hunt with aren't willing or able to walk that far and work that hard. i only recently found a hunting partner that i can count on for that type of adventure. im not too tough to admit that i dont want to go there alone. something as simple as twisting an ankle can be life threatening where sheep live. i dont think you wrecked anything personally. i think the resource is managed for hunter opportunity and not for trophy quality. i think as long as 95% of legal rams outside of parks and sanctuaries are killed every year there will never be the number and size of rams that there COULD be. as i said, the B&C record book is dominated by alberta rams. most of them are from more than 60 years ago before trophy hunting really became widespread. the recent entries are largely from cadomin. yes there are exceptions, but the rule is rams die in alberta the first year they are legal. i will state it again. i dont think the entire province should be put to a draw, but a draw system would produce many more big heavy mature rams, and as a trophy hunter i think that would be great. yes i would like to see much of the province open for general hunting so anyone who wants to can go. and i guess i have to say this again too. congratulations on killing 7 rams. i know how hard i worked, and you worked 7 times as hard. if you want to kill number 8 and he's 5 years old and 155 go ahead, its legal and perfectly ok. if you dont kill him, someone else will. thats the management system we have. thats what my complaint is. not you. the system that allows so many yioung rams to die is what i would like to see change.
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  #283  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:34 PM
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ishootbambi,
I have a few questions for you.
1. What in your eyes would make for a "QUALITY" hunt for mature rams? Not sure I understand when we already have some priority and lottery draws that seem to target mature rams. Do we just need more?
2. Do you have data to back up that 95% of legal rams outside the park are harvested every year?
3. If you have only spent 6 days in the mountains can you be sure that there really is a lack of mature sheep?

Not meant to offend, but I think there is opportunity for mature sheep, same as any species - its just that alot of guys wont pass up an opportunity at a legal one if they get that chance.

I think if you are soley relying on the B&C book for an idea about our age structure - you should also realize, sheep habits in hunted areas have also probably changed during the last 60 years of increased human activity. they are adaptable creatures.
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  #284  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:49 PM
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I think bambi you should take a little look at the history books and see where the grand rams used to come from in Alberta. It won't take you long to realize that sheep hunters are suffering from habitat loss to all those granola crunching park planners! The amount of prime hunting lost to enlarging existing or making new non hunting parks over the last 40 years is surprising.
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  #285  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:57 PM
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Record book really tells you what???. I think it is a waste of time to get all excited over the record book. I bet there are over 75% of the guys on here with record book animals that have not recorded them in the books. I think there are less and less guys that get excited about putting animals in there. I know I could care less if my name is in there and I imagine I could get it in there if I had a few critters measured by one in authority.
As longdraw has stated earlier ,he knows of some big rams getting killed this year. Any info Longdraw of what parts of the country these big rams were from? Just curious of how many are Cadomin rams. It seems like everyone thinks Cadomin is the only place to get a book ram
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  #286  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:02 PM
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ISHOOTBAMBI, this might hurt your feelings and I really don't know how else to say it but before you start voicing your opinion on what a quality Ram is or what we need to do in this province to provide the quality rams hunt adventure you should spend more than 6 days of hunting. There are some great quality rams out there. I know if I had more time I would kill bigger ones but I usually only have a week every year to get out to hunt sheep. It is like anything you have to put in the time and work like a dog to get lcuky enough for the big boys.
I imagine if we had a pile of 180 rams walking around we would always want to make it better so we could kill 190 class rams. Human nature I guess. Maybe we need to lower the B+C record book scores. Then we would all be happy I guess.
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  #287  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:03 PM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
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first question, i dont know if we NEED more draw areas, but i would like to see it. i dont see any other way to increase trophy quality. i dont think horn size alone is the only factor in determining a quality hunt either. my definition is a trip where a hunter has the opportunity to see several mature animals and have the option to see and make a choice of multiple rams, bucks, bulls or whatever you are after. this situation exixts in some areas already with mule deer in some zones, and elk in others. as for rams, that is how it works in montana. i dont know offhand how much of the state is general and how much is draw, but i do know that in the draw zones seeing several 170 plus rams during the season is a reality. i will say that for the first time in this thread i will admit jealousy. i would love to hunt montana for bighorn sheep. i am envious of their management plan.
second question, 95% is the estimate from the biologists who advise the province on sheep numbers to the provincial guys who make the rules. this is an estimated number, but one that even most hunters agree is a fair guess.
third question, hunter harvest shows that big mature rams are scarce. they do exist as ksteed showed us this year, but they are the exception to the rule. that is because of the answer to question 2. the majority of legal rams are killed the first year they are legal.
let me clear the air once again. i never declared myself a sheep expert. i just pay attention to the numbers and this fact cannot be argued. very few mature rams are taken in this province and i would like to see it change. a sheep , or any animal does not have to make B&C to be considered a trophy. the satisfaction of the hunter taking it is what makes it a trophy. for me personally, that means bigger animals.
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  #288  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:09 PM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
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for sure lots of guys dont enter their stuff. me too. i have 2 B&C animals, 2 Longhunter animals, and 3 P&Y. none are in any books. a record book is not the deciding factor. the B&C record book is an indicator of potential though, and that potential is not being realized. of course there are some huge trophies out there, i would just like to see more of them.
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  #289  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
I think bambi you should take a little look at the history books and see where the grand rams used to come from in Alberta. It won't take you long to realize that sheep hunters are suffering from habitat loss to all those granola crunching park planners! The amount of prime hunting lost to enlarging existing or making new non hunting parks over the last 40 years is surprising.
x 2 habitat loss due to a number of sources - industry, recreation, parks etc has had a large impact on most if not all of the species around the province.
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  #290  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:24 PM
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I think fire suppression is a biggie in the southern zones. I still think having a diversity of different opportunities available (draw seasons) is a good idea though. How about a few more November seasons along the southern parks to target rams that are otherwise unlikely to ever be taken. The WMU 438 draw is still the best thing going in regards to chances at a monster for the fortunate few drawn. That and 437 but as I'll never have a chance to draw there's not much point in mentioning that one, sure some beauties running around last summer though.

General opportunity is a thing we should be thankful for though. I'm still sort of on the fence regarding the 5 year wait but i do think some more special licences would be cool. Maybe breaking the 438 general season into a series of draws (along with removal of some allocations) as well but let's stay on topic
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  #291  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:16 PM
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Hi guys, ive been following this thread and want to throw in my thoughts.
After sheep hunting for close to 20 years we shot 2 175ish rams on opening morning this past september.Without a doubt it was the most exhilarating feeling
ever as sheep hunting is unlike any other hunting in north america. ishootbambi ,if you want more and bigger sheep get of your butt and climb the next mountain! Theyre called trophy sheep for a reason -cuz theyre big and rare! I agree with sheephunter, why fix something thats not broke. I also find it unfair that the sucessful hunter cant even APPLY in the trophy zones the following year where hes probably never hunted before ! just my 2 cents
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  #292  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:46 PM
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as mentioned earlier about southern zones being on draw while the northern zones remain open is wrong as well, all that will do is move all the hunters from the south up farther north. how about jump the tag price to $100-$150, that would eliminate a lot of "casual hunters" who do harvest sheep??
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  #293  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:49 PM
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as mentioned earlier about southern zones being on draw while the northern zones remain open is wrong as well, all that will do is move all the hunters from the south up farther north. how about jump the tag price to $100-$150, that would eliminate a lot of "casual hunters" who do harvest sheep??
I think "casual sheep hunters" is a oxymoron. Although I'm sure there's a few that get lucky near the roads once and awhile.
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  #294  
Old 01-15-2010, 05:18 PM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
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dont sweat it nube...you didnt hurt my feelings. as for my sheep hunting time, well, like i said, i didnt find it all that tough to get one. just hiked farther than most are willing to go. i dont have to climb every mountain in alberta to know there are very very few big rams out there. the hunter success and trophy size tells me that already. just like the boone and crockett record book shows us all that it could be better. alberta once was the best place in the world to have a chance at a mega ram. these days it seems that montana gets the nod. i didnt say what we have now sucks, heck, for opportunity, we are the envy of the hunting world. all i said was that it could be even better. now that i have said that, i may just go ahead and climb every mountain in alberta looking for my own eye popper. if i never find him i will have fun trying though.
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  #295  
Old 01-15-2010, 10:03 PM
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Well its proven that we all arent in agreement on things as usual but things that are fact are that yes we do have DECENT bighorn hunting and yes there are SOME decent rams to be hunted but also the hunting could be BETTER and there could be MORE decent rams to hunt. But by doing nothing we will never see that. No one one here knows the answers to how any of this could happen but there are alot of good ideas that could possibly help.
So those that are happy with the way things are great just be happy but alot of guys out there would like to see improvment whether it be quantity or quality and those that would like to see any improvment will just have to keep voicing our opinions.
SG
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  #296  
Old 01-15-2010, 10:46 PM
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I just had a thought. I have not hunted in any of the full curl zones. If there is anyone on this forum that has I would really like to know what the changes they have seen in them if any at all? That would help us decide if full curl is the way to go or not. Personally i don't think so but I am all ears to if there has been any improvement in size or number of sheep. It would be interesting to know the stats on the number of sheep harvested now compared to before they started the full curl thing.
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  #297  
Old 01-16-2010, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post
ISHOOTBAMBI, this might hurt your feelings and I really don't know how else to say it but before you start voicing your opinion on what a quality Ram is or what we need to do in this province to provide the quality rams hunt adventure you should spend more than 6 days of hunting. There are some great quality rams out there. I know if I had more time I would kill bigger ones but I usually only have a week every year to get out to hunt sheep. It is like anything you have to put in the time and work like a dog to get lcuky enough for the big boys.
I imagine if we had a pile of 180 rams walking around we would always want to make it better so we could kill 190 class rams. Human nature I guess. Maybe we need to lower the B+C record book scores. Then we would all be happy I guess.
2x... It seems that everybody wants a book Ram the easy way!! If you want a book Ram they are out there you just have to put in the time. Any legal Ram is a trophy IMO . Here is another thought! there aren't enough book Elk taken in this Province either, so maybe they should be put on draw as well.
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  #298  
Old 01-16-2010, 08:43 AM
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2x... It seems that everybody wants a book Ram the easy way!! If you want a book Ram they are out there you just have to put in the time. Any legal Ram is a trophy IMO . Here is another thought! there aren't enough book Elk taken in this Province either, so maybe they should be put on draw as well.
there are alot of zones that used to produce lots of big elk that were put on draw that now are tough to find a legal bull.
One of the best areas(the panther river area) for a book elk back in the 80's and 90's now hardly even produces A legal bull.
Alot of our elk zones have more issues than just harvest numbers.
SG
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  #299  
Old 01-16-2010, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sheepguide View Post
there are alot of zones that used to produce lots of big elk that were put on draw that now are tough to find a legal bull.
One of the best areas(the panther river area) for a book elk back in the 80's and 90's now hardly even produces A legal bull.
Alot of our elk zones have more issues than just harvest numbers.
SG
Everyone,

I find it so tragic that the Alberta Government has mismanaged the sustainability of sheep populations. If these rumours are true they should be ashamed. If the rumours are not true then my apologies.

Rafter
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  #300  
Old 01-16-2010, 09:47 PM
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Everyone,

I find it so tragic that the Alberta Government has mismanaged the sustainability of sheep populations. If these rumours are true they should be ashamed. If the rumours are not true then my apologies.

Rafter
What rumours are you talking about, the sheep populations are healthy from what I've see in the zones I have hunted. Why fix something that isn't broke. I think that maybe this issue is being pushed by some of the older Sheep hunters that can't get out anymore and they are done Sheep hunting andso should everybody else in there eyes.
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