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  #31  
Old 12-15-2010, 04:37 PM
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Seems simple. If I owned a bow I'd be voting no, but I don't, so will be voting yes. It's all self-interest, either way. I have to draw for mulies and antlerless elk in the WMU I hunt... so should the bow hunters. And I can ABSOLUTELY see why bow hunters would want no changes to anything.
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  #32  
Old 12-15-2010, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by shorty View Post
One still needs all the patience and stalking skills as with a compound bow.
Yeah...NO!

If you do a kinestetic comparison of the two weapons you will find it is much easier to hunt with a cross-bow than with a bow. I would more than triple my success ratio if I was able to use a cross-bow during my spot and stalk of animals during the season. The fact that I would not have to draw back when the animal is 30 yards or closer would have assured me animals on those stalks where I was busted when the deer spotted me on my draw. Lesson learned and I get to try it again later that day on an even bigger deer. What am I getting at here, the bow kill takes more effort, patience, skill, and finesse. There is no disputing that fact and it is for that reason I bowhunt. It allows me a chance to truly hone my hunting skill and truly enjoy the time outside.
In a nutshell then, grouping crossbow with archery is brain-dead idea as the two hunting styles are not comparable based on the moments leading up to the shot. Crossbow is point and shoot like a camera or gun with a shorter range. The bow requires a range of movement before the shot which allows the animal a window to spot you, even in the stand and greatly reducing your chances of success.

For those that are handicapped , sure there should there should be concessions for shooting a crossbow while hunting but that is a different argument that does not belong on this thread as it just muddies the water.

Voting NO, hopefully I won't get suspended or banned for my POV. Just noticed in an old thread that many who supported the No side were somehow banned/suspended from the website, not sure if the two issues are linked, certainly hope not, that would be unethical.
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  #33  
Old 12-15-2010, 05:15 PM
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I love hunting with my bow ! But i will vote yes

I also think that the future has them in the archery season, and the sooner we are working to get the system working better, then its a positive thing. I truely think that most of the guys that will vote no, are just being selfish and not looking to the future.

I believe there will be poblems and changes that won't please everyone , but long term will be a better system ! My .02$
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  #34  
Old 12-15-2010, 05:16 PM
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  #35  
Old 12-15-2010, 05:23 PM
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another thought wood be that it might get more "hunters" in the bush that will, like rifles, try and shoot at anything. being in the mindset that its basicly a "rifle" shooting an arrow, and not having to have the skill of a decent bowhunter to down game in a humane fashion................. pretty much im guessing theres is going to be more wounded animals that wont get tracked down and go to waste... just my 2 cents..........
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  #36  
Old 12-15-2010, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YGF View Post
another thought wood be that it might get more "hunters" in the bush that will, like rifles, try and shoot at anything. being in the mindset that its basicly a "rifle" shooting an arrow, and not having to have the skill of a decent bowhunter to down game in a humane fashion................. pretty much im guessing theres is going to be more wounded animals that wont get tracked down and go to waste... just my 2 cents..........
Alot of assumptions there. Also sort of runs counter to the argument that it's easier to hunt with a crossbow than a bow. If it's easier, should be able to get a higher percentage of clean kills. Is there any sort of certification at all with regard to bows to even remotely suggest the user knows what he's doing or knows how to "down game in a humane fashion"?
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  #37  
Old 12-15-2010, 05:40 PM
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Two tunring points for AB hunters that one day we will wish we could go back and change:

1) RAMP

2) Permitting crossbows for use in archery season.
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  #38  
Old 12-15-2010, 05:43 PM
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Well since they are trying to make it like the states, I would vote yes, " IF " they completely followed through on it, and they modeled it like Ohio, since it's one of the examples the pro crossbower refer to!! . How great would look to have a season like they have !!!!


Archery season ( including Xbows)............Sept 25th - Feb 6th
Muzzleloader season ...............................Oct 18th - Oct 23rd
Youth Gun Season ..................................Nov 20th - Nov 21st
Gun season .............................Nov 29th - Dec 5th and Dec 18th -Dec 19th
Muzzleloader season................................ Jan 8th - Jan 11th

http://www.ohiodnr.com/wildlife/dow/...10huntregs.pdf

I don't think anyone would want this.

Unfortunatley the misconception of increased hunter oppoturnity is a farse, as Walking buffalo quickly showed.

What may work in other provinces or states, and the numbers they give, have nothing to do with Alberta.

Before we go jumping into something that might hurt all hunters in this province we should look into other options like a crossbow combine with muzzleloaders season, that takes a week from archers and a week from rifle hunters. A pilot program set up in a couple of stratigic zones, to see what the reprocusions or benefits of a decision like this , would do. Then we would have more concrete numbers to work with to perhaps justify this.

The next thing will be Paid hunting and hunting leases you watch !
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  #39  
Old 12-15-2010, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
Alot of assumptions there. Also sort of runs counter to the argument that it's easier to hunt with a crossbow than a bow. If it's easier, should be able to get a higher percentage of clean kills. Is there any sort of certification at all with regard to bows to even remotely suggest the user knows what he's doing or knows how to "down game in a humane fashion"?
Or rifles, or shotguns, or muzzle loaders. Oko, AHEIA will train hunters for basic knowledge but you should know better than to ask a question like that.
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  #40  
Old 12-15-2010, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
Good, that is exactely why I will vote YES
Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
Good?

The EXACT reason why you want crossbows in the Mule deer season is to REDUCE hunter opportunity?
X2

The merits of crossbows in archery or not can be debated but the idea of limiting oppurtunity is just wrong. Talk about dividing hunters for selfish reasons this just sounds like petty spite.

The oppurtunity is there for everyone to pick up a bow as well the oppurtunity is there for everyone to hunt with a crossbow.

No for me.
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  #41  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
Seems simple. If I owned a bow I'd be voting no, but I don't, so will be voting yes. It's all self-interest, either way. I have to draw for mulies and antlerless elk in the WMU I hunt... so should the bow hunters. And I can ABSOLUTELY see why bow hunters would want no changes to anything.
This sums it up perfectly for me.
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  #42  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
Seems simple. If I owned a bow I'd be voting no, but I don't, so will be voting yes. It's all self-interest, either way. I have to draw for mulies and antlerless elk in the WMU I hunt... so should the bow hunters. And I can ABSOLUTELY see why bow hunters would want no changes to anything.
Perfect response for me.
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  #43  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
This sums it up perfectly for me.
so you don't bowhunt and are sore someone gets an opportunity you don't. If they add crossbows during archery season can we then assume you will boycott that opportunity, or will we see a show with you and your crossbow?
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  #44  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:52 PM
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I can see it now, bunch of nubies driving the roads and fields with crossbows. If it looks like a gun it must shoot like one, right?? That thing will rest nicely on my unrolled window, sure beats me trying to shoot my bow from the drivers seat.
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  #45  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DuckBrat View Post
I can see it now, bunch of nubies driving the roads and fields with crossbows. If it looks like a gun it must shoot like one, right?? That thing will rest nicely on my unrolled window, sure beats me trying to shoot my bow from the drivers seat.

If a truck driving within 40 yards doesn't spook the deer, doubt getting out and drawing will. You're grasping for straws now.

Plus you have used the same logic as the anti's do with gun control... namely that any law or season would make any difference to someone intent on breaking the law! If poachers want to use crossbows don't you think they already are????????????????????
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  #46  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:10 PM
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I just cannot get over how selfish some of you are. Its not enough, we just cannot have archery and its social benefits enjoyed by all age groups, as a staple in Alberta's outdoors. I could go on and on here, its just unreal. Bring on this vote, lets hope the mass does'nt see things from this same greedy, selfish, lazy viewpoint, as some of our peers on this forum openly proclaim to.
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  #47  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbAngler View Post
Because god forbid, they might have to share!

I have both so will be voting yes.
X2
A BIG FREAK'N YES
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  #48  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:29 PM
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I keep hearing complaints from a selection of the yes side about being excluded from hunting opportunities. There has been no exclusion as you have had ample opportunity to grab a bow and join the Archers hunting in Alberta. Why the sudden urge to to get in on the season?? Could it be because crossbow is easier to shoot?? Could it be because Archers are some of the most dedicated hunters around and spend hours/days practicing their shooting style before the hunt? Maybe it's because with crossbow you don't have to build up muscle strength and timing that you need when shooting a bow. Not willing to put forth the extra effort, then please don't complain about being left out of the extra season. Handicapped hunters excluded of course.
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Last edited by DuckBrat; 12-15-2010 at 07:44 PM.
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  #49  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by packhuntr View Post
I just cannot get over how selfish some of you are. Its not enough, we just cannot have archery and its social benefits enjoyed by all age groups, as a staple in Alberta's outdoors. I could go on and on here, its just unreal. Bring on this vote, lets hope the mass does'nt see things from this same greedy, selfish, lazy viewpoint, as some of our peers on this forum openly proclaim to.
I'm not sure I know which group you are calling greedy and selfish. Do you mean the bow hunters who don't want to share their season with anyone else?
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  #50  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:39 PM
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You are currently not restricted from purchasing that bow you were earlier talking about are you?? You state its only because you do not own a bow as the ONLY reason you would vote for xbow inclusion, is that not what you said? And if thats the case, why do you not enjoy the TRADITION of ARCHERY and Alberta's early season opportunity to do so?? Please, DO ANSWER, I believe you would realistically be speaking for THE VAST MAJORITY of hunters that share your view.... Ive got a betting kinda feeling that your reason could be summed up with one word,,, it starts with an L, and ends with a Y.
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  #51  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:50 PM
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Who's SELFISH??
"Back off, Get your own Crossbow!!"
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  #52  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:54 PM
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Well, i'll miss the general archery seasons in Alberta. Once we lose opportunity you rarely see it return. Such is life though.
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  #53  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
I'm not sure I know which group you are calling greedy and selfish. Do you mean the bow hunters who don't want to share their season with anyone else?
How is anyone being excluded from this season????
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  #54  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
I'm not sure I know which group you are calling greedy and selfish. Do you mean the bow hunters who don't want to share their season with anyone else?
I'm not looking to exclude anyone, I'm advocating equality, where we all wait the same number of years to draw a tag.
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  #55  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
I'm not looking to exclude anyone, I'm advocating equality, where we all wait the same number of years to draw a tag.
Pick up a bow and you will wait just as long as every other person with an archery license.

Plus if getting archery on a draw is what you want then that is a seperate debate. Adding xbows is a poor way to argue that position.

Last edited by SLH; 12-15-2010 at 08:13 PM. Reason: addition
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  #56  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Better opportunity trumps more opportunity by miles. And then some.
Really? Ok, from a 'TROPHY' hunter standpoint.....maybe. However, this minor tool placement correction is hardly going to ruin all of Alberta's 'TROPHY' hunting.

I think there is tons of room for a multi-person bow in this province. But thanks for pointing out the main reason to vote against it....100% trophy hunter selfishness.

Oh, the moose might hit more draws too? Boo hoo...fill some of the bazillion damm doe tags if you need that much meat!

Like we don't have 'better opportunity' its Alberta.... Doom and gloom the world is gonna end people....lol.....get a grip folks.

Here's my selfish reason for wanting the blasted thing included where it fits, if you can call it 'selfish'?. But there are more reasons that make sense besides this one...i don't want to hunt with one, just ordered a new monster 7 to back up my xlr8, i want one to introduce people.

Introduction tool.

I could/would/can introduce more people each season to hunting if the crossbow was put where it fits, that simple. Growth is more important than hanging onto a yearly general mule deer buck tag. There just is just so much more pro and only the one selfish con to the entire argument....its just a one size fits all bow that broadens the scope of bowhunting to be more appealing and doable for everyone, every age, every size, every physical limitation.

Bowhunting is pretty awesome way to hunt, archery is cool too and i dig that part of it, but i dig shooting all sorts of weapons some more than others you get the point etc....but bowhunting, the silent tools, the having to close the distance, the early season etc. thats the shizzle and the more people that can bowhunt the better and having a one size fits all bow is fantastic....not having it included with the other bows in this day and age is just silly.
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  #57  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SLH View Post
How is anyone being excluded from this season????
So if 10,000 extra hunters went out and bought bows to hunt in bow season that would be fine, but if you allowed 10,000 crossbow users to hunt during the season it would be a disaster, a crime, just so wrong... OK, I got ya.

I guess the question I have is "Why should we have to jump through that hoop?" Gun registry supporters use the same logic... "Anyone can have a gun, just register it. What's the big deal about registering it?" To both I ask "what's the purpose?"
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  #58  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:22 PM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by DuckBrat View Post
Yeah...NO!

If you do a kinestetic comparison of the two weapons you will find it is much easier to hunt with a cross-bow than with a bow. I would more than triple my success ratio if I was able to use a cross-bow during my spot and stalk of animals during the season. The fact that I would not have to draw back when the animal is 30 yards or closer would have assured me animals on those stalks where I was busted when the deer spotted me on my draw. Lesson learned and I get to try it again later that day on an even bigger deer. What am I getting at here, the bow kill takes more effort, patience, skill, and finesse. There is no disputing that fact and it is for that reason I bowhunt. It allows me a chance to truly hone my hunting skill and truly enjoy the time outside.
In a nutshell then, grouping crossbow with archery is brain-dead idea as the two hunting styles are not comparable based on the moments leading up to the shot. Crossbow is point and shoot like a camera or gun with a shorter range. The bow requires a range of movement before the shot which allows the animal a window to spot you, even in the stand and greatly reducing your chances of success.

For those that are handicapped , sure there should there should be concessions for shooting a crossbow while hunting but that is a different argument that does not belong on this thread as it just muddies the water.

Voting NO, hopefully I won't get suspended or banned for my POV. Just noticed in an old thread that many who supported the No side were somehow banned/suspended from the website, not sure if the two issues are linked, certainly hope not, that would be unethical.

Yeah....YES

i hear you on the banned suspended stuff, if you wanna get too extreme about any subject it could likely get you booted, stay cool and you'll probably be fine...or so i see it, only so much dead horse beating a forum can take you know

anyhow, you will not triple your success with crossbow, hey, maybe the odd guy could but he might have some interesting hunting and shooting styles...never know?.... all the places that include it within a couple percent of compound success rates...so from game manage standpoint...its 100% bow...oh and since your so keen on honing your skills etc. do you hunt with a recurve or compound bow? if compound then your standing on your own you know whats....thats gotta hurt

you have some homework to catch up on, research the tool (crossbow) and learn about its true field capabilities, your whole post is wrong
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  #59  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
So if 10,000 extra hunters went out and bought bows to hunt in bow season that would be fine, but if you allowed 10,000 crossbow users to hunt during the season it would be a disaster, a crime, just so wrong... OK, I got ya.
I said nothing of the sort, I feel that the season as it is is fine and was set up with the intentions of being an archery season. If it is concluded that crossbows are archery equipment then so be it. I like the season the way it is. I feel xbows are not bows and do not belong in this season for all the reasons stated ad nauseum. I don't think this season excludes anyone individuals can decide if they want to be a part of it or not. If numbers of archery hunters makes it necessary to put the season on draw so be it, but this idea that people think archers are greedy and selfish is wrong. The same arguement can be stated for those that want in on the season by adjusting the rules, they are greedy and selfish. Truly I think it accomplishes nothing to base your arguement in that mud hole. Debate it on the merits of the equipment and the nature of the season.
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  #60  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DuckBrat View Post
I can see it now, bunch of nubies driving the roads and fields with crossbows. If it looks like a gun it must shoot like one, right?? That thing will rest nicely on my unrolled window, sure beats me trying to shoot my bow from the drivers seat.
thats hilarious right there

can you imagine having a strung crossbow in the cab of a truck? do you do that with the arrow loaded or not?....or do you put the arrow on once you figure out how to jam a bow out a truck window....i'd love to see this whole process happen, i'm thinking a video of such an exercise would get you in the next darwin awards series...or how bout getting stopped by the fishcops?...the do you leave it strung and give a warm smile?, pull the trigger and dryfire it in cab?...assuming you didn't have a bolt in it? pull trigger and put hole in your truck?....that would be a hilarious video too!

kicking the door open would give you the room to shoot a vertical bow easier than the horizontal and good luck getting the horizontal out the window...eitherway the door is coming open but one way the limbs are likely going to connect with some part of the truck and seriously mess you up....darwin awards coming up

commonsense says the vertical bow would be the truck guys tool of choice...prove me wrong, it just points out that you haven't yet been educated on the crossbow at all and just another guy with the usual knee jerk reaction to the crossbow inclusion

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 12-15-2010 at 08:37 PM.
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