Commercial Pilots

[260 Rem]

GOC website says military pilots start at $80,000.00 which I assume would be for 2nd Lt. They have programs to pay for education and a U degree fast tracks entry into officer training after basics. (Pretty sure my son was earning above $100K in early 2000’s as a Major). Flying for the military provides excellent training and lots of hours. The military has to pay salaries that are somewhat competitive to private/commercial or their pilots would be jumping ship for greener pastures with fewer hours work. Military (as do most union pilots) get good pensions.
Making the jump to the big carriers requires pilots to “pay their dues” and regardless of hours/rank/etc start at bottom rates. These companies can get away with the low pay because prospects are looking at the long term and overall benefits.

[doetracks]

Originally Posted by Clusterite

Hi guys, couple questions for the people making a living flying. Are the people flying the commercial passenger jets, West Jet, Air Canada, mostly have a military background? For the ones who don't, what kinda money are people paying to get the required flight experience to get hired by a big name company? Just a conversation I was having with a bud over a beer but my guess was around 100k for the pilots with no military background. Am I in the ball park?

I have been flying professionally for 21 years (wow, can't believe it has been that long). Have never flown airline, currently in the corporate world.

There aren't as many military pilots in aviation here in Canada as there are in the US. That said, my Director of Flight Ops is ex-military and one of our copilots is as well.

I believe Cadets is always valuable experience, but it's not for everyone I'm sure.

IIRC I paid about $30K all in for both Canadian and US certificates. I started in Yellowknife and spent close to 10 years "up north" between there and Whitehorse. The rest has been all over the place. I only started making over $100K in the last couple years, and again, I have been flying now for 21 years.

Airlines are also not for everyone, but that's someone a person usually finds out as they go along.

Like was previously mentioned, it is a good time to be a pilot. We are having trouble finding experienced (note: EXPERIENCED) crew.

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Jeepers I believe people where just offering your son another route to take....and believe it or not the experience of flying military aircraft after say ten years opens doors much quicker to say fly commercial and it's a heck of a lot easier on the pocket book as your earning a very well salary doing what you would love to do....always good options out there.

Having a bad day Cat? I am well aware of all the recommendations that I have gotten already and never did I come across rash....My Son refuses to go the Cadets way and made it clear before you posting. My Wife and I agree that he should do cadets for the added advantage, However, the wifey emailed MRU for more information and got some valuable information from them today. Based on this, we have decided to stay from the cadets route.

Thanks again for all replies as this was not even my post, but still welcome any other help or experience from past or present Pilots.

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by doetracks

I have been flying professionally for 21 years (wow, can't believe it has been that long). Have never flown airline, currently in the corporate world.

There aren't as many military pilots in aviation here in Canada as there are in the US. That said, my Director of Flight Ops is ex-military and one of our copilots is as well.

I believe Cadets is always valuable experience, but it's not for everyone I'm sure.

IIRC I paid about $30K all in for both Canadian and US certificates. I started in Yellowknife and spent close to 10 years "up north" between there and Whitehorse. The rest has been all over the place. I only started making over $100K in the last couple years, and again, I have been flying now for 21 years.

Airlines are also not for everyone, but that's someone a person usually finds out as they go along.

Like was previously mentioned, it is a good time to be a pilot. We are having trouble finding experienced (note: EXPERIENCED) crew.

Thank you for the valuable information. You are right in saying that cadets is not for everyone...

[roper1]

Originally Posted by kevinhits

Thank you for the valuable information. You are right in saying that cadets is not for everyone...

As you say, your son even went so far as to sit in on a couple cadet meetings. Cadets wouldn't be for me either, much like zealous principals that keep harping away....

To the OP, I would check into the retirement age, I believe (?) the 60 year mark is still in effect on the big airlines,

[kifaru]

I came to Alberta in 2005 as a foreign worker on an PR, as most jobs want a Canadian employee and I am fine with that, i could not apply for a pilot job.

A bit off back ground, I flew in east africa for 6 years all small piston light engines, left to go to the Uk with 4000hrs, I was trying to get a UK ATPL, long sorry sort I did not get this rating but I now hold a FAA ATPL and CAA ATPL.

By 2008 I was now a Canadian cit but the job market fell. By this time I started a second career which is what kept me and my family going in the UK and here in Alberta.

Now I have the same salary as the gent that said he flys corporate this job has no qualifications and therefor no large training cost.

BUT having said all this I would go back to flying in a heart beat if I could get the right income.

My advise is to have a second career as flying is a job were unless you get to a company were the ups and downs off the world economy wont affect you all good, But if not then you will need something to pay the bills.

Good luck with his career wish him all the best.

[triguy]

It is a good time to start a career as a pilot now I've been around for 30 years in the airlines. it is not the highest ROI for professions out there The 2 major airlines in Canada are very similar in pay structure. Any 2 year college program will be the ticket to start in the regional airlines. MRU is not the only game in town. I can give you more info if you message me directly. Good luck to you son in his future endeavors.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by kevinhits

Having a bad day Cat? I am well aware of all the recommendations that I have gotten already and never did I come across rash....My Son refuses to go the Cadets way and made it clear before you posting. My Wife and I agree that he should do cadets for the added advantage, However, the wifey emailed MRU for more information and got some valuable information from them today. Based on this, we have decided to stay from the cadets route.

Thanks again for all replies as this was not even my post, but still welcome any other help or experience from past or present Pilots.

Nope never a bad day, we live in Canada, all is easy and good to go, just gotta apply yourself, good luck to your young lad.

[260 Rem]

If interested in getting on with the major passenger carriers in Canada, I think the following will serve you/your children well:
First, get some post secondary education - ideally an aviation related Bachelor degree...below that, a two or three year aviation related diploma. Also, a major aviation school that gives a degree and a commercial license (ie: Seneca).
Then, after getting the “education”, the fastest route is to log hours on regional carriers such as Jazz, Air Georgian, SkyRegional...
Also, the military route is good, but will take longer ..

[CNP]

After attaining the rank of Capt (approx. 4 years) the rate of pay for a RCAF pilot is 6,687 per month. It doesn't matter if he is flying a C-17, C-130, F-18, A310, or a helicopter (H-146 or H-147), they are all paid the same. An aircraft "Captain" (nothing to do with rank) is paid at the same rate as the first officer. After 10 years, even with no promotion, that same Capt is now being paid at the rate of 9,941 per month. Capt's are the backbone of the pilot corp, once you start up the promotion ladder there are fewer and fewer flying jobs. LCols rarely are afforded a flying position............CO's of a Sqn if they are fortunate to land that position. Lots of 10 year of better Capt's out there.....after all, wouldn't you rather be flying?

[58thecat]

Flying hercs makes your mid section grow.....hey Pass me another box lunch

[Norwest Alta]

Good luck Kevin but a little bit off advice is that your son is 14. After raising 2 boys and a daughter lots of things change in between 14 and being a grown up.

[Jack Hardin]

I have known military pilots that were flying Hercs and 707's from the left hand seat and got lured to the airlines or charter companies. Due to lack of seniority with these companies they ended up in the right hand seat. Some actually returned to the military to get back in the left hand seat again. The period I am referring to is the 60's, 70's and 80's. Things may have changed since then.

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by kevinhits

My 14 year old Son is all in for being a pilot and looked into the cost recently and it will cost $80,000 or more....So, unless he changes his mind, we are in for the long haul

He has been using simulators and is really into taking everything in right now...He is a very smart kid and my Wife and I will let him pursue his dreams and not worrying about the cost. From what my son has told me, a 6 digit income is reasonable....

Any input from this thread will be shared with my son....Look forward to any feedback from past or present pilots that can share there experiences

Also, We were looking at putting him into Air Cadets here in Calgary. Do Cadets have a better chance getting into Mount Royal for Pilot training?
Is there any other good Universities or College to take the course in Western Canada or even Montana, USA?

I guess he needs a PPL to even apply to Mount Royal. Any input and help would be appreciated.

Thanks guys

$80,000.00. Not to bad. Check out what a university education costs in this day and age.

[prarie_boy1]

Originally Posted by lannie

Being a commercial pilot is being a glorified bus driver at best.

How much time have you spent in the business end of a transport category Jet out of curiosity?

[lannie]

Originally Posted by prarie_boy1

How much time have you spent in the business end of a transport category Jet out of curiosity?

I have owned a couple of airplanes, have had a license for 35 years. Father was a commercial pilot for 55 years. His advise to me when i was much younger is to do something where you can earn much better income then buy an airplane and fly when and where you want. It was great advice and i listened.
Maybe some are interested in Helicoptors. Check out this forum

https://forums.verticalmag.com/forum...er-operations/

First thread currently is about people leaving the industry....
They are not glorified bus drivers they are the glorified truck drivers....
The aviation industry is very cutthroat and margins are slim.
How's Integra air doing today? Lots of instability to consider for any youth who likes the idea of being a pilot.

[260 Rem]

Compensation packages typically include more than “salary”. Military benefits include pretty good medical, life insurance, per diems when on the road, sometimes even housing and work clothing...and pensions.
Many of the major civilian carriers (particularly those that are unionized) also offer similar benefit packages.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Compensation packages typically include more than “salary”. Military benefits include pretty good medical, life insurance, per diems when on the road, sometimes even housing and work clothing...and pensions.
Many of the major civilian carriers (particularly those that are unionized) also offer similar benefit packages.

RCAF Aircrew Allowance is an incremental perk that will boost aircrew pay. Starts at $327 a month in the first year and max's out at $621 a month depending upon years flown.

An RCAF Capt with incentive pay 10 plus max aircrew allowance is paid out $126,732 annually. Not bad for a first officer on a Bell 412 helo (CH146 Griffon). Presumably all incentive 10 Capt's will have made aircraft commander status on at least one aircraft type. However, a switch of aircraft type will revert an aircraft commander (Captain) on the current airframe to first officer (Co Pilot) on the new airframe type until specific criteria have been achieved.

Hard to find a helo job with that pay scale...

Pension is paid out on pure salary not allowances. Still, a 35 year pension is over $70K

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Good luck Kevin but a little bit off advice is that your son is 14. After raising 2 boys and a daughter lots of things change in between 14 and being a grown up.

You are so right, but he is set on this so I would like to plan ahead just be ahead of the game. We will not dish out any cash until he is totally commited to this.

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by roper1

As you say, your son even went so far as to sit in on a couple cadet meetings. Cadets wouldn't be for me either, much like zealous principals that keep harping away....

To the OP, I would check into the retirement age, I believe (?) the 60 year mark is still in effect on the big airlines,

x2.....

I was not there for the meetings but I cannot force my Son into something he does not like....and for one, I could not see myself going the same route...

Air cadets and Military assignments, training etc. are not for everyone and I respect my Son's decision to say so.....

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Compensation packages typically include more than “salary”. Military benefits include pretty good medical, life insurance, per diems when on the road, sometimes even housing and work clothing...and pensions.
Many of the major civilian carriers (particularly those that are unionized) also offer similar benefit packages.

Sorry that my PM was full....No disrespect for your information..I would be grateful if you can PM me again as I have deleted a bunch of messages..

[260 Rem]

Perhaps a bit more insight into salaries for commercial/passenger pilot salaries (left seat= captain). Hourly rate varies with aircraft/ carrier. Smaller mean$ less, big mean$ more. So a guess for an Embrier would be about $90.00 per hour ....an A320 about $200.00 per hour...777 about $350.00 per hour. Most will get about 1000 hrs per year.
The big carriers pay a very low salary (maybe $50,000 per year) to newbies for the first three or four years (kind of like legal/accounting firms).

[SammyS778]

My son is eager to become a commercial pilot.
My biggest concerns are the high cost of getting his commercial pilots license and job prospects. From what I have read from many resources like Fly Aeroguard it takes a long time before you start earning a decent income. Any pilots out there with a view on this?

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by SammyS778

My son is eager to become a commercial pilot.
My biggest concerns are the high cost of getting his commercial pilots license and job prospects. From what I have read from many resources like Fly Aeroguard it takes a long time before you start earning a decent income. Any pilots out there with a view on this?

Most pilots I've talked to, do NOT do it for the money (ie, it isn't a high paying job), they do it because they love flying/planes.

[propliner]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Most pilots I've talked to, do NOT do it for the money (ie, it isn't a high paying job), they do it because they love flying/planes.

These are very sick individuals and need help in the worst way.

Sammy, you are correct on all accounts. It's not an easy road to get started down but once established it can pay off decently. There's never been a better time to get a flying job in Canada with the shortage of qualified pilots right now.

[260 Rem]

The advice I gave in post #39 is probably pretty good given my “source”. One of my boys is currently the Managing Director of Flight Operations for Rouge (a susiduary of AC running about 50 aircraft I think). He did a B. Com then went military where he flew Hercs for Canada and a 707 (AWACS) for NATO. Then to AC where he was Chief Standards Pilot for the Embrier...then on to a A320/30 ... and now with Rouge near the top of that pile. His wife graduated Royal Rhodes .... also flew Hercs for Canada, then 737’s for a Holiday carrier, then to AC training their A320 folks... and now on wide body long haul 787’s (Dreamliner).

[SuperCub]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

It would be a few years before a commercial pilot gets into 100k plus range I am afraid. Yes, There seems to be a pilot shortage right now, yes 80 k for training is probably a good bet. Yes, get into cadets and into a glider sooner rather than later... I am a private pilot, not commercial, so I fly for fun. Would I fly as a profession, nope. Way better ways to make money, but I get it that some want to turn there passion into a career.

My youthful ambition was to become a commercial pilot as my father held a private licence. (Please see my handle ) He got his training late in the war from the Air Cadets, but was still too young to join in 1945. He discouraged my career choice so I went in another direction, more lost than straight forward. While I understand his reasoning, I really wish he would have encouraged my choice and pushed me into it.

There are other trades out there that will pay over $100k and are easier to get into. The huge downside of being a pilot is that your life is totally at the beck and call of those who pay your wages.