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  #91  
Old 12-27-2011, 09:24 AM
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I thought our wonderful C68 was supposed to keep crazies from getting guns of any type. People with RPALs have been vetted by the finest anti firearm folks this country has to offer( the CFC and CFO). The stats say we are 1/5 as likely to commit murder than someone without a gun license. Seems to me the sky won't fall if handgun hunting is allowed. Maybe I have to much faith in my fellow man. Let's open up the season and find out who is right, theories are just theories until the experiment is conducted.
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  #92  
Old 12-27-2011, 09:37 AM
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my first pistol took the better part of a year before i could shoot it. Then i had to call and get a permit everytime i wanted to go shooting. With the rpal this was changed to be easy. No more waiting. I got my second pistol the same day i bought it. No need to take it to the police either. And i got a long term att. It has never been easir to get pistols than now.

If you know the right answers and dont have abad ex you will get a rpal.
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  #93  
Old 12-27-2011, 12:56 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Very well said. Why is it that it's okay for a person to run around the country with a high powered rifle, yet some people would panic if the same person was allowed to hunt with a handgun? And for those people that would demand a proficiency test for handgun hunters, you should start with a test for long gun hunters, as either can be just as incompetent.
We need to be practical here! No sense comparing the idea of proving "competence" with long guns, bows ...because those horses have already left the gate. My argument is that we may need to jump through some extra hoops if we even want a remote chance of introducing HG hunting, and the quickest way kill the idea.... would be inciting a huge majority of long gun hunters to speak against our cause. I think there are two realistic strategic options here 1) Lobby for HG hunting with some restrictions, or 2) Forget the idea all together.
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  #94  
Old 12-27-2011, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
We need to be practical here! No sense comparing the idea of proving "competence" with long guns, bows ...because those horses have already left the gate. My argument is that we may need to jump through some extra hoops if we even want a remote chance of introducing HG hunting, and the quickest way kill the idea.... would be inciting a huge majority of long gun hunters to speak against our cause. I think there are two realistic strategic options here 1) Lobby for HG hunting with some restrictions, or 2) Forget the idea all together.
Why as Canadians do we always feel a need for more regulations? We want a freedom, submitting to more bureaucracy to gain that freedom is counter productive. We have brainwashed ourselves into believing that only government can run our lives.

Why would a huge majority of LG hunters be against handgun hunting. The
majority of LG owners I know are RPAL holders, I'd assume most of them would jump at the chance to buy a new toy to go hunting with.

Rather than allowing big game hunting with pistols to start out, why not open up for varmints only. When there are no problems, move to licensed hunting
species. Simple to do with the stroke of a pen and no extra bureaucracy needed.
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  #95  
Old 12-27-2011, 02:29 PM
Scar270 Scar270 is offline
 
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Lets not lose sight of the fact that what we are fighting for with the province right now isn't exactly a free for all with handguns. Even if they were to drop the regulation, we still would need to fight it out with the feds, or at least the CFO's to be allowed to carry for that purpose.

Right now the fight is that the provincial government is actually going to further restrict handguns, by including antique's in the prohibition, simply because they have no idea what truly constitutes an antique, and instead of educating themselves, their knee jerk reaction is to further prohibit. That sort of critical thinking should be questioned and punished by the electorate at every possible moment. As that is exactly what got us prohibitions and registries to start with.

Literally I was told by SRD staff that looking into the historical reasons for the prohibition of handgun hunting with restricted firearms would be too labor instensive to be worthwhile for the little bit of support removing it would have. (Not sure how the AFGA is just a little bit of support). However at the same time they are willing to restrict antiques without any knowledge of their abilities, nor any historical research on why they were not included with the original law. That sort of logic is flawed, and systemic in our systems of government. As long as we allow that sort of beurocratic BS to continue, we will continue to lose freedoms in every facet of our lives!
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  #96  
Old 12-27-2011, 02:59 PM
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Yes.

Lobbying for handgun hunting is logical. It further shows the legitimacy of handgun ownership.

That is why those opposed to handgun hunting want this logical step halted.

If SRD is against handgun hunting, they are anti gun, which is reflective on the government. They either retract or get replaced.

Alison Redford was one of the Alberta politicians who supported me in getting rid of the long gun registry prior to the vote on C-391. She went public with Solicitor General Frank Oberle in a joint statement asking for the registry to be abolished.

Now that she is Premier, one would logically believe that proposing handgun hunting would not be a stretch.....

Perhaps it is our SRD Minister that needs an education on this matter.

Politicians are OUR employees.....we don't work for them.
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  #97  
Old 12-27-2011, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer View Post
Why as Canadians do we always feel a need for more regulations?
I think the key here is that some people want more regulations. I don't and I suspect that you and the majority of AO members do not.

Problem is, those who don't want more regulations are outnumbered by those that do.

So to answer your question, "because they are; A stupid, B brainwashed, C all of the above.

No, to be fair, they just believe in a nanny state. Perhaps because they didn't pay attention in history class.


Now what can we do about it ?
Well, we can stand up and vote and hope enough Liebrals aren't paying attention for our votes to outnumber theirs.

I wish I had some faith in that strategy, but I don't.
If we can't get along as members of a mutual interest forum, how are we to organize well enough to get the majority to get out and vote?

Perhaps there's another way, but if so it evades me. Maybe someone smarter then I has some ideas.

I'm all ears.
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  #98  
Old 12-27-2011, 05:04 PM
jimbo1 jimbo1 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
I think the key here is that some people want more regulations. I don't and I suspect that you and the majority of AO members do not.

Problem is, those who don't want more regulations are outnumbered by those that do.

So to answer your question, "because they are; A stupid, B brainwashed, C all of the above.

No, to be fair, they just believe in a nanny state. Perhaps because they didn't pay attention in history class.


Now what can we do about it ?
Well, we can stand up and vote and hope enough Liebrals aren't paying attention for our votes to outnumber theirs.

I wish I had some faith in that strategy, but I don't.
If we can't get along as members of a mutual interest forum, how are we to organize well enough to get the majority to get out and vote?

Perhaps there's another way, but if so it evades me. Maybe someone smarter then I has some ideas.

I'm all ears.
i think we should all try and get along more as hunters! as keg says if we make a comment without jumping down eachothers throats what chance do we stand against the liberals and anti hunters??
dont get me wrong im all for debate and i know we all have different views on different matters and methods but we really need to learn to stick together more and be more tolerant of eachother after all its our love of the outdoors and hunting thats the reason we are all on here!
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  #99  
Old 12-27-2011, 05:55 PM
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I think that for us all to be able to stick together on issues that affect us and some more than others we need to be willing to give up some beliefs.

To get acceptance of handgun hunting will be a big hurdle. There are too many people against guns yet alone pistols and then the right to hunt with one.

I am not stupid nor do i like regulations or the nanny state. However I am a realist and i do not see the government giving in to let is do something that we have not been permitted to do in most likely my life time if not longer. So if we expect to be granted some extra privaliges then we need to be willing to give in to some restrictions. We license drivers only after testing. We license trades after testing. We license profeesionals after testing, but we then let them police.themselves.

So why dont we give the government a solution. Make it easy for them. Show that we are willing to undertake testing and licensing for this new privelage. Let us police the licensing so it does not cost the government money. Set up specialized testers at the various ranges to test new hunters. Seems simple enough to me, and it should give enough of an argument to stop those oposed to guns.
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  #100  
Old 12-27-2011, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwm1273 View Post
I think that for us all to be able to stick together on issues that affect us and some more than others we need to be willing to give up some beliefs.

To get acceptance of handgun hunting will be a big hurdle. There are too many people against guns yet alone pistols and then the right to hunt with one.

I am not stupid nor do i like regulations or the nanny state. However I am a realist and i do not see the government giving in to let is do something that we have not been permitted to do in most likely my life time if not longer. So if we expect to be granted some extra privaliges then we need to be willing to give in to some restrictions. We license drivers only after testing. We license trades after testing. We license profeesionals after testing, but we then let them police.themselves.

So why dont we give the government a solution. Make it easy for them. Show that we are willing to undertake testing and licensing for this new privelage. Let us police the licensing so it does not cost the government money. Set up specialized testers at the various ranges to test new hunters. Seems simple enough to me, and it should give enough of an argument to stop those oposed to guns.
The Canadian Firearms Safety Course - Restricted was developed for this reason.

No further courses are required. Just like anything, practice.

I feel no need to appease government. They work for ME. I dont work for them. And if they don't do what I want, I vote against them.

And if they are really bad, we start a "turf" project, like we did on CGN to get rid of Mark Holland (Ajax Pickering).....and yes, we got rid of him.

Every single vote counts.

The trick is, getting everyone to join and help out. Everyone.
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  #101  
Old 12-27-2011, 06:10 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Quote:
So why dont we give the government a solution. Make it easy for them. Show that we are willing to undertake testing and licensing for this new privelage. Let us police the licensing so it does not cost the government money. Set up specialized testers at the various ranges to test new hunters. Seems simple enough to me, and it should give enough of an argument to stop those oposed to guns.
If testing is required for handguns, it should also be required for long guns, as each requires some skill to be proficient with, and each can be misused. Would you be willing to be tested with a long gun before being allowed to purchase a license to hunt with a long gun? I an thinking a 100 yard target for rifles, and a round of skeet or sporting clays before being allowed to hunt birds with a shotgun. If you aren't willing to undergo the testing yourself for long guns, then you shouldn't be asking people to undergo testing before being allowed to hunt with a handgun.
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  #102  
Old 12-27-2011, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
The Canadian Firearms Safety Course - Restricted was developed for this reason.

No further courses are required. Just like anything, practice.

I feel no need to appease government. They work for ME. I dont work for them. And if they don't do what I want, I vote against them.

And if they are really bad, we start a "turf" project, like we did on CGN to get rid of Mark Holland (Ajax Pickering).....and yes, we got rid of him.

Every single vote counts.

The trick is, getting everyone to join and help out. Everyone.
very true what alberta has in place already is more than enough, ive no interest at all in handgun huntitng the smae as i dont in archery but i will not knock anyone that has! and youre damn right ill stand up for the guy who WANTS TO HANDGUN HUNT! even though it isnt my bag!
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  #103  
Old 12-27-2011, 10:34 PM
densa44 densa44 is offline
 
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Default If the guys I see at gun shops are any sample...?

I've been in stores with guys in Camo pointing guns at me and any body else. I'm sure others tell similar stories. They may be the minority but very scary never the less.

I don't think that there is either much call for pistol hunting or any chance that any government will ever approve of it. It could lead to non hunters carrying hand guns so that they could shoot one another and claiming that they were hunters on their way home.

We really don't need support from the criminal element in this country.

I'd say just leave it alone.
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  #104  
Old 12-27-2011, 10:41 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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I don't think that there is either much call for pistol hunting or any chance that any government will ever approve of it. It could lead to non hunters carrying hand guns so that they could shoot one another and claiming that they were hunters on their way home.
The solution is simple, if you aren't in a place where it is legal to discharge a firearm, make it mandatory that the handguns are in a locked case. Allow open carry only where it is legal to discharge a firearm, and don't allow concealed carry anywhere.
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  #105  
Old 12-27-2011, 10:43 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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I don't think that there is either much call for pistol hunting or any chance that any government will ever approve of it. It could lead to non hunters carrying hand guns so that they could shoot one another and claiming that they were hunters on their way home.
The solution is simple, if you aren't in a place where it is legal to discharge a firearm, make it mandatory that the handguns are in a locked case. Allow open carry only where it is legal to discharge a firearm, and don't allow concealed carry anywhere. And if you aren't going to support the legal handgun owners, don't expect them to support you, when your firearms usage, or ownership, is being restricted.
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  #106  
Old 12-27-2011, 11:21 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
If testing is required for handguns, it should also be required for long guns, as each requires some skill to be proficient with, and each can be misused. Would you be willing to be tested with a long gun before being allowed to purchase a license to hunt with a long gun? I an thinking a 100 yard target for rifles, and a round of skeet or sporting clays before being allowed to hunt birds with a shotgun. If you aren't willing to undergo the testing yourself for long guns, then you shouldn't be asking people to undergo testing before being allowed to hunt with a handgun.
Elk--- that was my exact point...long gun hunters would generally not support any testing because they have never had to prove proficiency. The large majority of long gun hunters care little about handgun anything, if we start saying "test them too"...they will not be on our side.
And, be carefull of what you ask for...maybe you will get it! Kind of like whining about the danger of hand held cell phones that morphed into legislation that included all distractions.
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  #107  
Old 12-27-2011, 11:27 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Quote:
Elk--- that was my exact point...long gun hunters would generally not support any testing because they have never had to prove proficiency. The large majority of long gun hunters care little about handgun anything, if we start saying "test them too"...they will not be on our side.
I am thinking that given the choice of undergoing testing themselves, or allowing handgun hunting without testing, the vast majority will choose to allow handgun hunting without requiring testing.
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  #108  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwm1273 View Post
I think that for us all to be able to stick together on issues that affect us and some more than others we need to be willing to give up some beliefs.
It appears to me that the problem is not so much not being willing to give up some beliefs, although that may well be the root of the problem, but here, the bigger problem is personal attacks rather then debate. Some very nasty personal attacks I might add.

I have encountered that far more often in here then simple refusal to give up a belief.


Quote:
To get acceptance of handgun hunting will be a big hurdle. There are too many people against guns yet alone pistols and then the right to hunt with one.
I think you are absolutely right about that.
Nevertheless, I see no harm in trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
The Canadian Firearms Safety Course - Restricted was developed for this reason.

No further courses are required. Just like anything, practice.

I feel no need to appease government. They work for ME. I dont work for them. And if they don't do what I want, I vote against them.

And if they are really bad, we start a "turf" project, like we did on CGN to get rid of Mark Holland (Ajax Pickering).....and yes, we got rid of him.

Every single vote counts.

The trick is, getting everyone to join and help out. Everyone.
Very well said. If given the opportunity I will certainly vote yes to allowing hand gun hunting.
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  #109  
Old 12-28-2011, 01:01 AM
Lonnie Lonnie is offline
 
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get that petition wrote up to hunt with a handgun and let me know where to go and sign it and I wuold even take and get afew pages of it filled with signatures for you.
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  #110  
Old 12-28-2011, 03:09 AM
rwm1273 rwm1273 is offline
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
If testing is required for handguns, it should also be required for long guns, as each requires some skill to be proficient with, and each can be misused. Would you be willing to be tested with a long gun before being allowed to purchase a license to hunt with a long gun? I an thinking a 100 yard target for rifles, and a round of skeet or sporting clays before being allowed to hunt birds with a shotgun. If you aren't willing to undergo the testing yourself for long guns, then you shouldn't be asking people to undergo testing before being allowed to hunt with a handgun.
I have no problem having to pass some testing. I had to pass a hunter training course to be able to get my first set of tags.

Other countries make people pass a shooting test before they are issued a license. I don't think we should necessarily go down this road, but perhaps new licenses should. Like I said before we test drivers, doctors and trades people. Why not shooters. My line of thinking is I want to be able to keep my guns and if I can prove that I am able to shoot, and am safe with my guns, then you need to stay out of my life, and let me hunt, fish and be merry.

However I am fully ready to stand behind any proposed legislation to permit hand gun hunting. Where is the petition?
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  #111  
Old 12-28-2011, 05:35 AM
Lonnie Lonnie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rwm1273 View Post
I have no problem having to pass some testing. I had to pass a hunter training course to be able to get my first set of tags.

Other countries make people pass a shooting test before they are issued a license. I don't think we should necessarily go down this road, but perhaps new licenses should. Like I said before we test drivers, doctors and trades people. Why not shooters. My line of thinking is I want to be able to keep my guns and if I can prove that I am able to shoot, and am safe with my guns, then you need to stay out of my life, and let me hunt, fish and be merry.

However I am fully ready to stand behind any proposed legislation to permit hand gun hunting. Where is the petition?
I'm not that old and I never had to take a test for any thing related to the use or owner ship of a gun or hunting. the line about I want to be able to keep my guns if I can prove that I am able to shoot and am safe with my guns. as long as your law abiding you shouldn't have to prove anything.
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  #112  
Old 12-28-2011, 08:38 AM
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I like the idea of handgun hunting for small game like chickens, but not big game. It is not that I don't think that big game can't be taken with a pistol, or that there aren't good shots out there with a pistol. The problem I see hunting big game is that the average joe may not be consistent enough with a pistol, may take longer than optimum shots when they see that big buck, and then there are the idiots. With small game like chickens, you can often get pretty close, and the animal is easily killed with a .22. I would like to be able to carry a .22 pistol on my hip for chickens, while I have my big rifle on my shoulder for big game.
This anti big game hunting with a handgun spewing just tells me that people have no idea what they are talking about and FYI I think the same way about most people that hunt big game with a bow or long gun...
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  #113  
Old 12-28-2011, 08:40 AM
Camp Cook Camp Cook is offline
 
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get that petition wrote up to hunt with a handgun and let me know where to go and sign it and I wuold even take and get afew pages of it filled with signatures for you.
Now that is what needs to be done...
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  #114  
Old 12-28-2011, 08:52 AM
Scar270 Scar270 is offline
 
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A petition may be a good idea as well, but once AFGA passes it again this spring at the convention, which I hope it will, that will be the 3rd time and it will be standing policy of the AFGA which represents a very large number of Albertans.

If you want to ensure this passes there, either attend as a delegate for your club, or make sure your delegates are informed of your wishes to support this, and take the time to explain stuff to them, or ask them to track me down at convention before the vote if they need more information. I would be very happy to spend the entire convention explaining this to people.
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  #115  
Old 12-28-2011, 08:56 AM
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Jamie Black R/T Jamie Black R/T is offline
 
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This anti big game hunting with a handgun spewing just tells me that people have no idea what they are talking about and FYI I think the same way about most people that hunt big game with a bow or long gun...
the first year or two it was allowed i bet everyone would want to try handgun hunting.....the initial excitment would wear off fast though once guys realized just how hard it is to get into handgun range of a nice buck...much like archery it will be too much work for the weekend warriors who just want to sit in their truck all day...leaving only the dedicated few out there with handguns chasing game....the same dedicated few that take the time to be archery proficient and actually account for far less wounded game than the general rifle crowd.

before i get flamed...i hunt the archery season and the general rifle seasons....and given the chance i would hunt with a handgun too....i love to hunt, PERIOD...to me its about getting out as often as is legal and experiencing every opprotunity alberta has to offer.

Id love to sit my stand a few times a year with a single action .44 mag.....ill be damned if a 270wsm or 30-06 would kill a deer any better at a suitable distance.
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  #116  
Old 12-28-2011, 09:20 AM
Pudelpointer Pudelpointer is offline
 
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Originally Posted by densa44 View Post
I've been in stores with guys in Camo pointing guns at me and any body else. I'm sure others tell similar stories. They may be the minority but very scary never the less.

I don't think that there is either much call for pistol hunting or any chance that any government will ever approve of it. It could lead to non hunters carrying hand guns so that they could shoot one another and claiming that they were hunters on their way home.

We really don't need support from the criminal element in this country.

I'd say just leave it alone.
If it wasn't you that made this post I would snicker at the underlying sarcasm. Unfortunately it was you that posted it, so....
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  #117  
Old 12-28-2011, 10:05 AM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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The numbers I am using are not factual...just presented to make a point. Out of every 1000 voters in Alberta....500 don't like handguns and would never support "looser" regulation....Of the remaining 500, 20 are hunters, and only 3 of them own handguns. Unless there is some mitigation of the the percieved threat, and ethical kill concerns related to the use of handguns for hunting, it will never gain enough steam to get political attention. We've heard some support for a "petition" ...so get on with it. But before you do, think about the potential results. 5000 signatures out of 500,000 voters will tell government there is little support.
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  #118  
Old 12-28-2011, 10:47 AM
Camp Cook Camp Cook is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by densa44
I've been in stores with guys in Camo pointing guns at me and any body else. I'm sure others tell similar stories. They may be the minority but very scary never the less.

I don't think that there is either much call for pistol hunting or any chance that any government will ever approve of it. It could lead to non hunters carrying hand guns so that they could shoot one another and claiming that they were hunters on their way home.

We really don't need support from the criminal element in this country.

I'd say just leave it alone.
WOW how did I miss this out of freaking touch emotional spewing post...

You normally voted dipper or liebral didn't you and you definitely need to stop drinking the anti's kool aid...

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  #119  
Old 12-28-2011, 11:55 AM
Scar270 Scar270 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by densa44 View Post
I've been in stores with guys in Camo pointing guns at me and any body else. I'm sure others tell similar stories. They may be the minority but very scary never the less.

I don't think that there is either much call for pistol hunting or any chance that any government will ever approve of it. It could lead to non hunters carrying hand guns so that they could shoot one another and claiming that they were hunters on their way home.

We really don't need support from the criminal element in this country.

I'd say just leave it alone.
Last time I checked shooting each other was already illegal. How would them claiming to be hunters change that? Are you going to legalize murder too as long as you have an RPAL and a hunting permit?

What stops people from doing that now with long guns?
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  #120  
Old 12-28-2011, 05:17 PM
Lonnie Lonnie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jamie Black R/T View Post
the first year or two it was allowed i bet everyone would want to try handgun hunting.....the initial excitment would wear off fast though once guys realized just how hard it is to get into handgun range of a nice buck...much like archery it will be too much work for the weekend warriors who just want to sit in their truck all day...leaving only the dedicated few out there with handguns chasing game....the same dedicated few that take the time to be archery proficient and actually account for far less wounded game than the general rifle crowd.

before i get flamed...i hunt the archery season and the general rifle seasons....and given the chance i would hunt with a handgun too....i love to hunt, PERIOD...to me its about getting out as often as is legal and experiencing every opprotunity alberta has to offer.

Id love to sit my stand a few times a year with a single action .44 mag.....ill be damned if a 270wsm or 30-06 would kill a deer any better at a suitable distance.
I don't think many people realize that thier are pistols that are designed for the purpose of big game hunting and that there more than capable of a 250 yard shot with deadly accuracy if you do your part I wuold not hunt with a handgun personally but see nothing wrong with it. these type of handguns are not your home defence guns or cowboy 6 shooters. and guys that use this type of pistol are usualy awesome rifle shots so there maybe afew more animals for us rifle hunters if they are allowed to try with a pistol.
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