Long range unethical?

[JD848]

Johnny like I said take care,we all got the point.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by troutLakeJohnnie

YES!! My point exactly. Many guys are wannabe Vasilly Zheitsev's. Also, they are shooting at game. A soldier shooting at enemy is not bound by ethical terms. his job is to kill or injure enemy. As sad as it sounds, shooting a human is more ethical than a moose. Go figgur! Wounding an enemy is acceptable.

Hunters should be held to account for shots over 500 yards. Boasting about anything over that should be shunned by the HUNTING community.

And people that can't figure out what .5% of 1100 is, likely can't do the math to accurately shoot 300 yards, let alone 1100 yards.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by JD 848

What were the number of rounds fired in total to get this point in war time,including every sniper in the world because every round has to be taken in to acount for these rounds to count,i respect these guys but putting something like this up is totally different than hunting.There professional shooters no doubt about that doing this for a living with the best of the best tech at there reach with countless hours of discipline behind them.Your putting up the 4 best in 7 billion people on the planet.

I merely posted these stats for lil' Johnnie's sake to illustrate that not only are 1100 yard shots possible,but real "pros" can reach out and touch targets almost 3x that far.
....ok...and truth be told,as a little show of CDN pride too.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by grinr

I merely posted these stats for lil' Johnnie's sake to illustrate that not only are 1100 yard shots possible,but real "pros" can reach out and touch targets almost 3x that far.
....ok...and truth be told,as a little show of CDN pride too.

I put it that way so johnny doesn't get the top shooters in world and some guy on youtube mixed up but it didn't work ,I wasn't trying to be rude to you in any way.it came out wrong I guess.Cheers, no disrespect to the CDN pride what so ever or any one else.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Here's an idea, how about we all stop feeding these trolls. Lately there have been several new members on here who post clickbait threads and immediately start trying to rile people up within 10 posts. If we want these people to fade away, ignoring them is the best option.

[troutLakeJohnnie]

Thank you for your reply. The info I have read regarding the Swarovski..in particular.. is that it has two issues at 1100 yards. The first is the lack of a proper reflective area to paint. A moose or antler will NOT suffice. A tree MIGHT but one review after the other states that it is almost impossible to hold it steady enough to paint an 18 or 24" tree at 1100 yards. Second, moose in video is way out in the middle of a river wash with no definable trees, landmarks, etc around it. Nothing to get a proper ranging from laser.
Third, Leica is the more accurate than Swarovski BUT they admit to a 0.5% error beyond 875 yards. This translates to 55 yard variance at 1100 yards.
No mention is made of bullet. What bullet/caliber did he use? I used a bullet with BEST flight characteristics and over max velocity in my estimate. I used a 165gr .338 at 3200fps with a BC of .447. That is definitely premium performance. A misjudgement of 15 yards can mean wounding or a complete miss at 1100 yards. Taking pot shots at a wash tub and hoping to hit it is not the same as shooting/hunting/killing a moose.

Originally Posted by hardy

TLJ you are a little misinformed about ranging. "MY" Swarovski Laser Guide can range deer past 500y very effectivly. How do I know....The same reason "ELK" said. Ive done it. My range finder has an accuracy reading of +/- "1 yard" at 1000 yards that equates to 0.036% margin for error.

Lets do some math at my home shooting range if i were shooting a 7mm 168vld
3000fps
3680 feet
26.05 inches mercury
50% humidity
I would be 214.37" low at 1000 yards. So if a moose vital is around 12-16" lets say then a 0.036% error equates to 7.72" error. That still lands me in the vitals if I were a good shot and there was no wind.

Not sure were all your confusion is founded? But if you make all your truth statements based on how a bushnell rangefinder preforms well thats to bad. Save some bucks and buy a better rangefinder you might not be so discouraged.
Cheers

[Skytop B]

you don't need none of those fancy gadgets. You just have to dress up in Cadpat, get your buddy to say "send it" and keep shooting till the target falls down, it's easy!

[elkhunter11]

Third, Leica is the more accurate than Swarovski BUT they admit to a 0.5% error beyond 875 yards. This translates to 55 yard variance at 1100 yards.

Did you actually pass mathematics in school? Seriously! 1% of 1100 is 11, so .5% of 1100 is 5.5. You have made it very obvious that you could not possibly do the calculations required to shoot long distance, but some people can comprehend basic mathematics.

[grinr]

Your math still sucks TLJ,even after it's already been pointed out at least once that 0.5% of 1100 is 5.5yards,not 55.

[troutLakeJohnnie]

Originally Posted by Skytop B

you don't need none of those fancy gadgets. You just have to dress up in Cadpat, get your buddy to say "send it" and keep shooting till the target falls down, it's easy!

My point, exactly!

[Talking moose]

Bahahaha..... Hook line and sinker.

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Bahahaha..... Hook line and sinker.

This.

Guys when you feel a little slack, spit the hook.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

So as a bow hunter where my shots are under 40 yards, I could say anyone who uses a rifle and shoots game over 80 yards away is not hunting. Got it.

I bow hunt too. Bowhunting takes more hunting skill than rifle hunting which takes more hunting skill than long range rifle hunting..It takes far more hunting talent, expertise and skill to get within bow range of an animal you spot 1000 yds away across a canyon than it does to get within a hundred and fifty yards to shoot it with an open sighted 30-30 and even less to get within 400 yds to shoot it with say a .270 and a 3x9 duplex scope and even less hunting acumen to just sit where you spotted it from, rangefind it, dial some turrets and pull a trigger from 1000 yds, the only 'hunting' was spotting an animal, calculating numbers and dialing a turret.

[bobtodrick]

1000yds, while not easy for the average person is no issue for someone skilled in long range shooting.
Check out the Vectronix line of rangefinders. They start with the Terrapin http://www.eurooptic.com/vectronix-t...lrf-brown.aspx (about $2k) which accurately ranges out to 2500m. They have models that range accurately to 12 kilometers but I doubt anyone here can afford one.
Add a Kestrel 4500 http://kestrelmeters.com/products/ke...llistics-meter.
Learn how to read wind and with the proper calibre (.300WinMag or .338 Lapua) and first round hits on 20" steel plates at 1000yds are actually not that hard.
Just because you're not confident or skilled in your abilities doesn't mean it can't be done.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

I bow hunt too. Bowhunting takes more hunting skill than rifle hunting which takes more hunting skill than long range rifle hunting..It takes far more hunting talent, expertise and skill to get within bow range of an animal you spot 1000 yds away across a canyon than it does to get within a hundred and fifty yards to shoot it with an open sighted 30-30 and even less to get within 400 yds to shoot it with say a .270 and a 3x9 duplex scope and even less hunting acumen to just sit where you spotted it from, rangefind it, dial some turrets and pull a trigger from 1000 yds, the only 'hunting' was spotting an animal, calculating numbers and dialing a turret.

But a guy may have to put a pile of miles on before he spots an animal as well!
it's all hunting, all good!
Cat

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

I bow hunt too. Bowhunting takes more hunting skill than rifle hunting which takes more hunting skill than long range rifle hunting..It takes far more hunting talent, expertise and skill to get within bow range of an animal you spot 1000 yds away across a canyon than it does to get within a hundred and fifty yards to shoot it with an open sighted 30-30 and even less to get within 400 yds to shoot it with say a .270 and a 3x9 duplex scope and even less hunting acumen to just sit where you spotted it from, rangefind it, dial some turrets and pull a trigger from 1000 yds, the only 'hunting' was spotting an animal, calculating numbers and dialing a turret.

So basically your saying the farther away an animal is killed, the less hunting it is.... That's what I said the first time.....

[Jordan Smith]

There are a lot of guys on this thread who talk the talk, but VERY few who walk the walk. That is plainly obvious. You know the old saying "Better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". The OP in particular. We've got guys repeatedly making Grade 3 math errors who obviously have about zero experience with either the gear or the expertise that comes from actually getting out and shooting at LR, and guys who confess zero interest or experience shooting past 500 yards, but speaking authoritatively about wind drift at 1000. Still others are claiming that you need a .300WM or .338LM to hit and kill at 1000. This thread is a hoot! All I can say is that most guys posting in this thread need to get off the couch and pop a few cases of primers at steel plates from 500-1000 yards before opining on the topic!

As great of some of our military snipers are, they are usually the first ones to admit that the competitive civilian community are generally better shots. Shooting is only one small part of being an excellent sniper.

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by troutLakeJohnnie

Thank you for your reply. The info I have read regarding the Swarovski..in particular.. is that it has two issues at 1100 yards. The first is the lack of a proper reflective area to paint. A moose or antler will NOT suffice. A tree MIGHT but one review after the other states that it is almost impossible to hold it steady enough to paint an 18 or 24" tree at 1100 yards. Second, moose in video is way out in the middle of a river wash with no definable trees, landmarks, etc around it. Nothing to get a proper ranging from laser.
Third, Leica is the more accurate than Swarovski BUT they admit to a 0.5% error beyond 875 yards. This translates to 55 yard variance at 1100 yards.
No mention is made of bullet. What bullet/caliber did he use? I used a bullet with BEST flight characteristics and over max velocity in my estimate. I used a 165gr .338 at 3200fps with a BC of .447. That is definitely premium performance. A misjudgement of 15 yards can mean wounding or a complete miss at 1100 yards. Taking pot shots at a wash tub and hoping to hit it is not the same as shooting/hunting/killing a moose.

Which range finders have you tested, and what were the results?

How many animals have you shot over 350 yards?

How many rounds a year do you shoot at targets beyond 200 yards? How much of that shooting is done in the wind?

What rifles/chamberings/bullets do you prefer for shooting at distance?

Thank you for your reply!

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

So basically your saying the farther away an animal is killed, the less hunting it is.... That's what I said the first time.....

So by that logic, bowhunting is hardly hunting at all, compared to killing a wild boar with a pack of dogs and a knife...

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

So by that logic, bowhunting is hardly hunting at all, compared to killing a wild boar with a pack of dogs and a knife...

Apparently.

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

You don't range the animal you range rocks snow covered hillsides, etc.
Of course no one can tell you HOW they do it - there is no app for that!!
As I said, you need trigger time at long range and good coaching .

As far as shooting as opposed to hunting goes,
You see a deer on the side of the river and hit he beach .
The deer tops the bank and so do you.
When you get up he's 100 yards or less and you drop him with one shot.

On another occasion you spot a deer you have been watching all summer .
You hit the gravel bar in the middle of the river and jump out, knowing you are halfway across the 400 yard river and the deer is at the top of the steep bank approximately 200 yards you hold the bottom of his lungs and drive a bullet into the spot with the bullet exiting out the top of the off shoulder .

Another time you spot a deer on top of a ridge and get set up with the Barr and Stroud , ranging him at 785 yards .
You dope the wind and put a 190 grain bullet through his lungs killing him.
Someone please tell me the difference here between the shots that were actually hunting and what was not hunting but shooting ?

And exactly where short range stops and long range begins, because everybody's idea is different .
However DO NOT question whether it can be done of nog and I still contend they there are as many animals wounded by slob hunters at short range as long because those people will shoot at any distance!
Cat

+1

I would just add that slob hunters incapable of killing game animals at long range usually miss completely, so you typically see less wounded game shot at long range than when those same slob hunters shoot critters at short range. Game animals shot at long range are typically either killed or missed completely, IME, depending on whether the shooter is very capable, or not at all.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

So by that logic, bowhunting is hardly hunting at all, compared to killing a wild boar with a pack of dogs and a knife...

Some might argue that it takes more thought and skill to take an animal at 1000 yds than just sitting in a tree stand over a game trail and popping it with a 30-30 at 50 yds.....hmmmm. That doesn't seem that hard does it? Lol

[southernman]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

So by that logic, bowhunting is hardly hunting at all, compared to killing a wild boar with a pack of dogs and a knife...

seen as this thread is complety off track, and point less, and the the new guy is trolling, I am going to expand on Jordan pig hunting comment.
warning graphic pig hunting, ouch!
http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaB...num=1412579713

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Some might argue that it takes more thought and skill to take an animal at 1000 yds than just sitting in a tree stand over a game trail and popping it with a 30-30 at 50 yds.....hmmmm. That doesn't seem that hard does it? Lol

Exactly. Still hunting. Spot and stalk. Calling. Driving. Which style is more "hunting" than the others? Who cares! Short range or long, each style is HUNTING, and each is different with different types of satisfaction and enjoyment. Killing game animals at close range (I'll arbitrarily say under 100 yards) is just as much "hunting" as long-range hunting, each with its own set of challenges, required skills and gear, and its own type of fulfillment after having success.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by southernman

seen as this thread is complety off track, and point less, and the the new guy is trolling, I am going to expand on Jordan pig hunting comment.
warning graphic pig hunting, ouch!
http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaB...num=1412579713

That'll buff right out I"m sure!
Wonder how the poor doggy made out?
nasty crap for sure, not for the faint of heart!
My dad told me that when he was in NZ, his host told him about a bunch of crazy rugby players who would chase pigs up a canyon with guys at the end of it with short swords!
Cat

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by southernman

seen as this thread is complety off track, and point less, and the the new guy is trolling, I am going to expand on Jordan pig hunting comment.
warning graphic pig hunting, ouch!
http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaB...num=1412579713

Now THAT'S HUNTING!!!

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

Exactly. Still hunting. Spot and stalk. Calling. Driving. Which style is more "hunting" than the others? Who cares! Short range or long, each style is HUNTING, and each is different with different types of satisfaction and enjoyment. Killing game animals at close range (I'll arbitrarily say under 100 yards) is just as much "hunting" as long-range hunting, each with its own set of challenges, required skills and gear, and its own type of fulfillment after having success.

Yup.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

But a guy may have to put a pile of miles on before he spots an animal as well!
it's all hunting, all good!
Cat

True, Yet I see a lot more game between zero yards and 1000 yds than I do between 0 yds and say archery range. I say it's easier hunting because I might have 10 shooting opportunities today if I were a 1000 yd shooter as opposed to if I hunted with my bow today and saw no animals in bow range therefore had no opportunities. Nothing wrong with any of it, stretching the range you can kill animals makes for more opportunities to kill an animal so it increases shot opportunities and puts way more animals within reach, makes it easier hunting.

[elkhunter11]

guys who confess zero interest or experience shooting past 500 yards, but speaking authoritatively about wind drift at 1000.

I have seen how easily a person with a wind meter can miss shots at 500m due to the wind changing speed and direction over 500 meters. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that at twice the distance, the possibility of misjudging the wind speed and direction will increase.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Some might argue that it takes more thought and skill to take an animal at 1000 yds than just sitting in a tree stand over a game trail and popping it with a 30-30 at 50 yds.....hmmmm. That doesn't seem that hard does it? Lol

It aint that hard but you got to have patience and wait for that critter, be skilled enough to place your stand right, be there at the same time as the critter comes by, hope he is within range, doesn't smell your farts or see you pickin your nose, or hear you talking to yourself, then you gotta get in position and draw your bow without the animal seeing you when he is very close to you. Takes a little more work than setting up on a hill, waiting for an animal to appear on a field the next quarter section over or driving around in truck and seeing an animal on a hillside across the canyon 1000 yds away. Chances are your going to get that animal without to much hunting effort.

I went bow hunting last week end, I saw 28 deer and 2 moose, none within bow range, but all easily within a 1000 yds. if I had a thousand yard rig with me I could have shot all of them. So on that day it would have been 28 times easier to kill a deer...or a couple moose.

All I'm saying is looking down the road into the future the longer the range we can easily shoot animals, the easier it becomes to fill tags, means more successful hunters, the more seasons and bag limits will be reduced.