Increase doe harvest to reduce deer populations.

[duffy4]

So it would seem that there are still a lot of areas where the deer population is very high and needs to be reduced.

If you don't think the deer pop. is too high in the area you hunt, fine go ahead and make that point in a civilized manner.

If you do agree the deer population is high in some areas and needs reducing, how can hunters be encouraged to go there and harvest some does?

In my view just giving out more and more doe permits doesn't seem to work.

There must be a way to draw hunters to these areas willing to harvest deer.

[ganderblaster]

No overpopulation in the wmus I've I have hunted in.Only problem is if someone doesn't allow hunters all the deer seem to end up on his land and then he whines about a deer problem.Seems to be more of a landowner problem but seeing what they see I'm sure I would err on the safe side too with some of the crazies out there

[ishootbambi]

the solution is very simple. have an antlerless only season after the general season. if you dont interfere with time that can be spent persuing trophies, more guys would be willing to take does in areas that are overpopulated. further, some guys would welcome extra opportunity whether or not they are trophy hunters. it has been done in the past where i live, but that was many years ago. the biologists in charge today seem to think that by giving out a billion buck tags the population can be effectively reduced. the reality is there are enough bucks that survive the onslaught to get the job done with the girls and a whole whack of fawns hit the ground the next spring. dont they learn that in school? anyway, that would only apply in wmu's where there actually is a problem with overpopulation, and not just in one guys field.

[walking buffalo]

Duffy

Would you clarify where these problem areas are? Your post has me confused. Too many deer in a lot of areas? A couple of years ago, sure, this year, not many areas are considered overpopulated with deer.

Killing Does always helps reduce deer numbers, shoot enough and the pop. goes down.

Bambi has a good point. Antlerless only hunt to focus hunter interest, where and if a problem exists, would probably work.

[ianwuzhere]

why is it better to have open antlerless season after the GOS and not before? I just not too sure..
One would think that they should have it before or during so the bucks dont waste all their time breeding does that may get shot..
I always laugh how private land owners whine when there are lots of animals eating their crops and dont let hunters on their land. Maybe they are trying for some kind of subsity??

[duffy4]

Deer populations:

This is from a F&W presentation on future possible wildlife management strategies.

for Mule deer:

Population trends
Mule Deer populations have been steadily increasing to the current provincial population of 186,000. In 1960 the provincial population was 60,000.
Issues with increasing populations
Crop depredation
Vehicle collisions
Population dynamics
disease
Harvest regimes
Harvest is based on current Mule Deer Plan of Alberta. The objective is to keep mule deer populations near the population goal while. There are several other considerations that are used while determining licence allocations.
Hunter densities
Landowner tolerance
Quality of hunt
Safety
Hunting opportunity
Chronic Wasting Disease
Specialized seasons (quota hunts) (this could be the separate muzzleloader season that is being "talked about" on another thread)
Draw priorities
Harvest in archery season

[walking buffalo]

Duffy4,

Still don't know what areas you are talking about. Hard to answer your OP without this info.

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Duffy4,

Still don't know what areas you are talking about. Hard to answer your OP without this info.

I don't have specific WMUs in mind.

If you don't believe there are any then you can put that forward. If you think there may be some then it doesn't matter where they may be, you can have a go at an answer.

[Jamie]

Perhaps a Bonus point system for harvesting does. Then these "Bonus" points could be used in ANY draw here in ALberta. That would get some peoples attention.

But then we need to look at the usage of the meat

Personaly, I would have no use for any more deer meat, but would gladly give it away to a family in need. Or perhaps we could use the meat to help feed the convicts.

Jamie

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by ianwuzhere

why is it better to have open antlerless season after the GOS and not before? I just not too sure..
One would think that they should have it before or during so the bucks dont waste all their time breeding does that may get shot..
I always laugh how private land owners whine when there are lots of animals eating their crops and dont let hunters on their land. Maybe they are trying for some kind of subsity??

archery season is already underway as are bird seasons, elk, moose etc. i know not all seasons are done in december, but most are so an extra opportunity would be the motivation. as for bucks wasting their time....im pretty sure they wouldnt be complaining

I don't have specific WMUs in mind.

When i use to hunt farm land in 258 and 260 w/t deer were everywhere i stop many many years ago farmer's can keep it
anyway my Brother still hunts wmu 258 -260 we have family menber's who farm there and these days thats all they see are mulies the population is very high now and i was told its getting harder and harder to fine a whitetail.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Perhaps a Bonus point system for harvesting does. Then these "Bonus" points could be used in ANY draw here in ALberta. That would get some peoples attention.

But then we need to look at the usage of the meat

Personaly, I would have no use for any more deer meat, but would gladly give it away to a family in need. Or perhaps we could use the meat to help feed the convicts.

Jamie

Why are people so determined to screw with (read screw up) the draw system? It's just fine the way it is, leave it alone.

[buckbrushoutdoors]

Originally Posted by delburnedave

Why are people so determined to screw with (read screw up) the draw system? It's just fine the way it is, leave it alone.

x2
leave it alone if its not broken dont fix it

[ganderblaster]

Originally Posted by buckbrushoutdoors

x2
leave it alone if its not broken dont fix it

The only thing with the current draw system that seems flawed is when you apply for antlerless tags and you get two and other people don't get drawn seems like it would make more sense to give out more tags to more people rather then two to one hunter

[Pathfinder76]

We seem to have certain characters on this board that have some mission in life to rewrite the best hunting system and opportunity in North America. Or at the very least want to "flesh out" and explore new ideas.

Maybe we should have a lottery draw with preference points for muzzleloader and crossbow hunters to hunt does. The season running from December 1st through December 1st of the same year.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by ganderblaster

The only thing with the current draw system that seems flawed is when you apply for antlerless tags and you get two and other people don't get drawn seems like it would make more sense to give out more tags to more people rather then two to one hunter

So the landowners deal with 1000 people instead of 300? Most of these draws have close to 100% success on the draw anyway.

The key here is the idiots hunting these does. My hunting partner and I killed our six doe quota this year on one day before noon hit. We had no less than 4 different truck stop and talk to us cause they were having trouble finding does. The real problem was that they hadn't had a doe come out and stand on the road in front of them.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by chuck

We seem to have certain characters on this board that have some mission in life to rewrite the best hunting system and opportunity in North America. Or at the very least want to "flesh out" and explore new ideas.

Maybe we should have a lottery draw with preference points for muzzleloader and crossbow hunters to hunt does. The season running from December 1st through December 1st of the same year.

Here here!!

[SLH]

Originally Posted by chuck

We seem to have certain characters on this board that have some mission in life to rewrite the best hunting system and opportunity in North America. Or at the very least want to "flesh out" and explore new ideas.

Maybe we should have a lottery draw with preference points for muzzleloader and crossbow hunters to hunt does. The season running from December 1st through December 1st of the same year.

Yes Yes!!

Any chance we can get you to run for premier.

[gman1978]

Originally Posted by chuck

We seem to have certain characters on this board that have some mission in life to rewrite the best hunting system and opportunity in North America. Or at the very least want to "flesh out" and explore new ideas.

Maybe we should have a lottery draw with preference points for muzzleloader and crossbow hunters to hunt does. The season running from December 1st through December 1st of the same year.

You hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by chuck

So the landowners deal with 1000 people instead of 300? Most of these draws have close to 100% success on the draw anyway.

The key here is the idiots hunting these does. My hunting partner and I killed our six doe quota this year on one day before noon hit. We had no less than 4 different truck stop and talk to us cause they were having trouble finding does. The real problem was that they hadn't had a doe come out and stand on the road in front of them.

Yup. Theres a big problem created when education is not required prior to licensing. Wreck after wreck, especially during some of these quota hunts. Most hunters are so marginal, when they do find deer it becomes the wild west all over again. I dont know what the answer is regarding the draws and how the tags are divied up, but I do know that something has to be done about educating folk about fisheries and wildlife management and the issues surrounding these things prior to licencing.

[Okotokian]

Who defines what constitutes "too many deer"? It seems to me that would probably be landowners who find that these deer are damaging their crops. These are the people who would benefit most from a decrease or control of deer numbers. Hold onto that proposition for a moment.

I agree that extra permits may not do the trick in these areas. There have to be other ways to entice hunters into an area. What is one of the things we constantly complain about? Access, and the difficulty of obtaining it. I have access for some properties close by and I stick to those lands. I don't go into unfamiliar WMU's in part because I don't have pre-arranged access and I'm not going to drive 150 miles only to wander around trying to find farmers who are home and who will give me access to their land that day.

SO, one of the things landowners in a particular area afflicted with "too many deer" could do is band together and advertise on boards like this, or perhaps some online registry. They could identify their property clearly and grant open access for certain period of time. If hunters knew they could treat an area just like public land and not worry about obtaining permission that might go a long way to getting them there.

Also, perhaps no compensation for crop damage would be paid unless the landowner were registered for such open hunting.

Now I know there are probably all kinds of holes I haven't considered in my suggestion. I'm not claiming that this is the way it should be. Be gentle. I'm just saying that as a hunter I never think there are too many deer. That's a problem for landowners, and they should be part of the solution. IF they don't want to, then I'd say that by definition there are not too many deer.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by chuck

We seem to have certain characters on this board that have some mission in life to rewrite the best hunting system and opportunity in North America.

Ours isn't perfect but we can compare the two if you like

Much prefer to pay my $10 and walk out with whatever I want

tm

[Slash8]

You can hand out all the tags you want for what ever legal method one so chooses to harvest game in this fantastic province during what ever season you deem necessary but if you can't get permission from land owners whats the point. I find it harder and harder to get permission out there.

[NCC]

If we could find a way for landowners who want deer numbers reduced to get together with hunters it would be win-win. I know of one dairy farmer who would encourage us to take several does. He lives along a busy highway, has only a few acres of bush on his land, and I'm sure no one ever asked him for permission because it doesn't look like habitat that would hold any deer. Meanwhile the nature lover who lives back in the sticks is getting bombarded by hunters looking to whack his pets that have been eating out of the garden all summer. Maybe it is something that the County or MD Ag fieldman's office could administrate; the fieldmen may be at least be a good source for hunters to contact when looking for places to shoot does.

One of the problems I've seen with the population control draws is the lag time between the bio's studies and SRD giving out tags. They are always a season or two behind the curve. I don't like the idea of bonus points for shooting does, or shoot a doe before you get your buck tag. Leave the does for the people who want the meat.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by delburnedave

Why are people so determined to screw with (read screw up) the draw system? It's just fine the way it is, leave it alone.

Easy now boys.. I am one of the huge fans of our present Draw system.

The OP asked what to do about the over abundance of does in this province.
It's becoming obvious that the hunters cannot/will not take care of this problem.
SO how do we motivate people to get out there? The Bonus points would allow for those a bit more dedicated to the health of our herds to receive a reward.

Unless you want to start giving out cash rewards that is.......

It's already been tried with the CWD stuff.. Kill a few does, get a buck tag.
I didn’t reinvent the wheel here.

Jamie

[Rantastic]

Originally Posted by NCC

If we could find a way for landowners who want deer numbers reduced to get together with hunters it would be win-win. I know of one dairy farmer who would encourage us to take several does. He lives along a busy highway, has only a few acres of bush on his land, and I'm sure no one ever asked him for permission because it doesn't look like habitat that would hold any deer. Meanwhile the nature lover who lives back in the sticks is getting bombarded by hunters looking to whack his pets that have been eating out of the garden all summer. Maybe it is something that the County or MD Ag fieldman's office could administrate; the fieldmen may be at least be a good source for hunters to contact when looking for places to shoot does.

One of the problems I've seen with the population control draws is the lag time between the bio's studies and SRD giving out tags. They are always a season or two behind the curve. I don't like the idea of bonus points for shooting does, or shoot a doe before you get your buck tag. Leave the does for the people who want the meat.

I agree with this post 100% I as a hunter and a non landowner would prefer to see 1 million deer elk moose and all animals all year round eating my lawn in the middle of the city. No problems for me except dirve a little slower so as not to hit all the pet deer. But the landowners have problems created by the big game numbers. I am not so foolish to not see that they can really hurt a farmers crops/fences and whatnot. Some farmers dont have a problem with this at all and some do.
The solution as I see it is what NCC and some others have suggested, landowners put their names up on a list and not allow for public land type hunting with no permission neccessary but to allow hunters to phone him and ask permission where he will say yes at his discretion, But that way his name and land would be out there for people with no idea where to turn or the people harassing all the nature loving lanowners on their little piece of paradise who dont want the attention...
If the guys who did have deer problems advertised that, the hunters with no where to go or just looking for some meat would flock to his land and im sure both parties would find it very accomidating.
This "list" could be posted online or held at a local ASRD or F and W office.
It would take thoughtful hunters out of bad situations and thoughtful landowners out of bad situations.... I still think permission is a must though to prevent the bad apples from having a hayday and Fing the whole thing up by doing what they do,(leaving trash, chewing up land with atvs when not permitted, fires, carelessness with firearms)

Guys looking for trophies can still do their thing but people like me and my gf just looking to fill the freezer or get some "first deers" moments would have a safe, lawful, easy place to go to and help solve the landowners problems.

Just so you know my gf and I harvested 2 mulie does last year off a farm field that was in no way a hard hunt but the landowner was opening up her field to down the population cuz all her seeds were being gobbled up, and she had so far had 5 does taken out of her 40pack of mulies. Not a huge dent but it helped both of us out, my gf got her first deer with not too much walking and freezing her butt off.... we got a freezer full of meat for the year and we grew closer with the landowner who welcomed us back next year.

Anyone else got any ideas on how to fine tune that idea?

As for meat usage there are charities that take whole deer/elk/moose for feeding the homeless in the big cities. I havent been there yet but plan on dropping off some does next year as Im sure I will still have Elk in the freezer.
What a great way to contribute to charity.

[Scar270]

I don't necessarily have solutions unfortunately, but we lost a lot of doe hunters when the registry came in, we lost a bunch more when many of the butcher shops stopped taking whole deer, as soon as they had to debone it became too much work for some pepperoni's.

The other problem is we are in a negative circle, not very many people grow up eating wild meat any more, and assume they don't like it. I know a lot of guys who like to hunt, but don't shoot does because even when they kill a buck every few years they have trouble using the meat as their wives don't like it.

Getting rid of the registry might help, but a lot of those hunters, once lost won't return. I have no idea if there is any validity to the butcher shop restrictions or not, it's possible that there is a good reason for it.

I have no idea how to get people past their preconcieved notions on wild game, too many have either had bad wild meat due to improper meat handling or cooking, and assume it's all that way, or just assume it's that way having never tried any. If we can get people eating deer, we can get them to shoot them.

[Rantastic]

Originally Posted by Scar270

I have no idea how to get people past their preconcieved notions on wild game, too many have either had bad wild meat due to improper meat handling or cooking, and assume it's all that way, or just assume it's that way having never tried any. If we can get people eating deer, we can get them to shoot them.

I think this is exactly why the charity deer donations are top notch, the province could sell special (doe only in overpopulated WMUs) tags for people who are willing to hunt the animal themselves for the experience but donate the deer to the charity butchers to feed the poor. Thats a great way to get people eating high protein deer who need it the most.

[ishootbambi]

not looking to pat myself on the back here, but look at my first post in this one. seems to be the best idea and as noone has bashed it i guess most agree. as for bonus points towards draws....no way. you cant ask guys in high level to make the trip to say empress to shoot a doe or two to stay competitive in the draws. as for shoot a doe to earn a buck....well if anyone was in the cwd zones the last few years you would have seen some awful things as i did. i found more than one headless carcass out there from the unscrupulous who needed that buck tag. i actually witnessed a guy along a highway hacking a head off a roadkilled deer. im still not sure how i feel about that. on one hand, he was himself killing one less deer, and as an opponent of the culls with a ton of evidence backing my oposition (see thread "CWD in 119") i am for that, but im not sure if he actually broke a law? he did submit a head and closed a tag on it. anyhow, the lure of possibly shooting more bucks is an idea i am against. if populations are deemed too high, stick to shooting does.

[Scar270]

The only problem I see with a doe only late season, is you still need to find people willing to go shoot does.

It's tough to get people to shoot does, as they have to have something to do with the meat.