CPS Facebook feed names numerous local child porn offenders

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Suppose a time when there is no release of names of accused till after conviction. Suppose that after years of stalling his day in court John Q. Prev is finally convicted of many crimes against children and his name is finally released. Suppose that you learn that John Q. is a neighbour or a close friend or a relative who has had much contact with your children. Suppose the worst and that is you learn that John Q. Has also abused your children and maybe even a few times since he was originally charged. Are you willing to give that right, the right secrecy till convicted to John Q Perv?

Part of the problem with our criminal court system is the time it take for it to go through the system. In a perfect world, the time between arrest and trial would be very fast, and then we would not have an issue of naming people who may not have been guilty, and the public would not be put at risk.

[fargineyesore]

Originally Posted by deerhunter

To bad they don't publish the young offenders names also.

Yeah sure, some kid just entering puberty struggling with how to cope looks at some child pornography once and his life should be ruined forever? What if it was your son or someone you care about? If you say you'd feel the same you're full of it. I can just see you saying to your son or daughter, "son I want your name made public for this so everyone can know what you did. So what if your just 13, you should be able to make the same decision as adults because, you know, your 13 and I'm sure you'll continue to do it again and again." Adults I'm fine with, not kids.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by silver

Do the names Milgard and Moran mean anything to you?

Yes. Do you even know the names of Picton's victims?

[brownbomber]

As for young offenders big difference between kids sending each other nudie selfies and some little creep watching pre pubescent rape. Obviously any kind of young offender name publication would have a level of severity, not evey crime deserves this treatment. But most of these sick pervs do start to have their urges quite young

[CaberTosser]

This CTV report even included photos of a handful of the suspects:

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=323469

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Part of the problem with our criminal court system is the time it take for it to go through the system. In a perfect world, the time between arrest and trial would be very fast, and then we would not have an issue of naming people who may not have been guilty, and the public would not be put at risk.

and a good part of that problem you mention is stalling tactics by accused and lawyer, hoping that in time the case will go away.

Since it is not a perfect world I would want to error on the side of protecting the children.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Yes. Do you even know the names of Picton's victims?

Some of them. And what does this have to do with the issue? Pickton wasn't suspected of anything until he had an issue relating to firearms and the police got a warrant to search his farm, and once he was caught, that is when the gravity of the situation came out. There was one witness who never came forward, but instead blackmailed Pickton several times.

I agree that sometimes naming a suspect is needed for public good, but it also has the potential to harm the innocent.

Here is an article that speaks specifically about the harm done by false allegations.

http://www.utahcriminallaw.net/lies-...alse-accusers/

I could post many more, but I think it gets the message out.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

and a good part of that problem you mention is stalling tactics by accused and lawyer, hoping that in time the case will go away.

Since it is not a perfect world I would want to error on the side of protecting the children.

I agree. But how do we fix the problem? Perhaps it is time we start to hold lawyers accountable for stalling tactics?

I know a friend who's ex was charged with assaulting him and breaking into his home, and her lawyer put off her plea 13 times, until after the family law issues where dealt with. In fact in family court, the judge was worried about her criminal case, and wanted to speed up the family law case so that if she was found guilty in criminal court, that it could not be used against her in family court. That is how biased and dysfunctional our court system is. He ended up losing his kids, despite him being a victim, and now his children are victims of her abuse, but nobody cares.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I agree. But how do we fix the problem? Perhaps it is time we start to hold lawyers accountable for stalling tactics?

Since it is not a perfect world I do not think there is a perfect fix. I do not think the lawyer problem will be a quick fix. Till then I think that the public is best served by knowing the names of those charged, especially those whose victims are children.

[Redfrog]

"And what does this have to do with the issue?"

Do you normally jump into the middle of a conversation with no idea what is being discussed?

I was asked if I heard of Milgard or Moran. It was a back handed way of saying something without saying it, so that person would not have to defend thier POV. Happens a lot around here. Fire a shot from the weeds and run and hide.

I answered with a question in a similar manner.

His question had nothing to do with naming accused and neither did mine. Oh and neither did yours. all were concerned with legal system failures.

[silver]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

I was asked if I heard of Milgard or Moran. It was a back handed way of saying something without saying it, so that person would not have to defend thier POV. Happens a lot around here. Fire a shot from the weeds and run and hide..

I asked about those two men in order to get people thinking. For every Picton there is a Milgard. To tar and feather someone merely because they have been charged would be a big mistake.

Are they guilty? Probably. But not for a certainty.

I knew a man that was charged with three serious crimes, lots of newspaper time. When he was found not guilty on the first charge and the others were dropped, didn't get a bit of news time.

A few years there was a man charged with killing a horse west of Calgary. This forum was full of calls for frontier justice. When the truth came out, charges were dropped.

If you go for vigilante justice and it turns out you were wrong, you don't get a do-over or get to take the beating back.

As for taking a shot and hiding in the bushes, I have a job, I have a life other than this site. I am not here every day. If I haven't replied to you as fast as you would like, I am sure you will get over it.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

"And what does this have to do with the issue?"

Do you normally jump into the middle of a conversation with no idea what is being discussed?

I was asked if I heard of Milgard or Moran. It was a back handed way of saying something without saying it, so that person would not have to defend thier POV. Happens a lot around here. Fire a shot from the weeds and run and hide.

I answered with a question in a similar manner.

His question had nothing to do with naming accused and neither did mine. Oh and neither did yours. all were concerned with legal system failures.

His reply had everything to do with the topic. It was about two individuals who had been jailed, but where later to have been found innocent. Lots of people get named, but how many are actually guilty?

Your comment about Pickton's victims has nothing to do with someone falsely accused and being labeled publicly.

[raised by wolves]

Public knowledge is a good thing, and public humiliation goes a long way. This group is most likely guilty. The police investigators would not be laying charges without evidence. I know one of the dirtbags on the list and seeing his name on CaberTosser's first post did not surprise me one bit.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by silver

If you go for vigilante justice and it turns out you were wrong, you don't get a do-over or get to take the beating back.

I am not for vigilante justice or beating but I am for releasing names of accused persons, especially those accused of victimizing children. I do know that a beating can not be taken back, but I also know if an accused re offends before trail, what happened to the victim can never be taken back as well.

[raised by wolves]

Our court system is flawed. Too many problems.

Think of the junior high teacher (I believe was from Sherwood Park), charged with sexual assault and sexual interference with a minor after being accused by a student. Lost his job, lost his family, several years being dragged out in the courts, public shaming, only for police investigators to finally present info that the 3 girls had lied. The time delay cost the guy his family, friends, and career.

Then the issue of money and status come into play. The 18 year old from Saskatchewan that was convicted on possession of child porn after his girlfriend sent him a selfie as she flashed her tits. The girl was only 4 months younger than the boy, but the girl's parents found out and did not like the boy and possessed the clout to push the matter through the courts. Now the kid is a registered sex offender. By law guilty of the charge, even a full confession of possession of the pic, but not the kind of character the police and courts should be pursuing in regard to child porn.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Add this one to the list. Now living in Carstairs. Wonder why so many of us are skeptics when it comes to religious leaders ?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...970s-1.2605675

Grizz

I have the same concern for hockey coaches, wait, teachers too, huh, maybe its people given authority over children unsupervised or properly vetted by their own parents....give your agendas a rest people, and don't trust anyone with YOUR children just because of their station.

As for publicizing those charged, it has its place in public security and it will stay that way. People givin examples of non canadian and 40 year old failures in process are comparing apples to pipe wrenches. The burden and onus on the police and the crown is significantly greater than the US and evn what it was 20 years ago. In cases like this were there are months of investigative time, special crowns and legal deparents involved there is actually little doubt as to guilt. These men have hope only in Charter issues, and that can be guaranteed.
There will be those who will say "guaranteed"?!! And in these circumstances with so many charges, and the seriousness of the offenses, yah, guaranteed.
Not convicted in Canada these days doesn't mean not guilty 99% of the time. It means the defense lawyer used a BS loophole to remove a key piece of legitimate evidence. I doubt enough people speaking to the circumstances have enough experience in our court system to speak otherwise.
I wish we could only increase the mandatory minimums for these men.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Not convicted in Canada these days doesn't mean not guilty 99% of the time.

In Canada, not proven beyond a reasonable doubt means not guilty in the eyes of the law.

I think there are way more accused persons who have committed crime and are given the benefit of the doubt and released than there are those fraudulently convicted. I would rather it be that way than the other way around.

[rem338win]

No, not guilty is a verdict, and most people not convicted do not get that verdict after all the evidence is weighed and reasonable doubt is found. They get "stays" or dropped charges due to show cause or voire dire eliminating testimony or evidence that some spin doctor lawyer has manipulated the system to exclude.
These are literally tens of thousands to one where a guilty pedophile or rapist or drug dealer, etc. walked on technicalities vs an innocent person caught in extraordinary circumstances was brought through the system.
I would say that your opinion is well meaning but inexperienced and if it was experienced you'd understand that lawyers are abusing that sentiment terribly daily to the demise of justice in Canada and due so failing the victims of the crimes commited while creating future victims.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by rem338win

No, not guilty is a verdict, and most people not convicted do not get that verdict after all the evidence is weighed and reasonable doubt is found. They get "stays" or dropped charges due to show cause or voire dire eliminating testimony or evidence that some spin doctor lawyer has manipulated the system to exclude.
These are literally tens of thousands to one where a guilty pedophile or rapist or drug dealer, etc. walked on technicalities vs an innocent person caught in extraordinary circumstances was brought through the system.
I would say that your opinion is well meaning but inexperienced and if it was experienced you'd understand that lawyers are abusing that sentiment terribly daily to the demise of justice in Canada and due so failing the victims of the crimes commited while creating future victims.

I agree that not guilty is a verdict and it only comes at the conclusion of a trial. The other stuff you are talking about is pre trial with the exception of a voir dire which is actually a trial within a trial. The term means to speak the truth. I do know all about technicalities! I will let you in on a little secret! The whole system is about technicalities! At this point I do not wish to join you in putting all the blame on lawyers. You may not think much of my opinion, but it is based on 27 years being involved in the Canadian legal system. I have no intention of arguing the finer points of the law with you because we are already way off the original topic of this thread.

Back to topic; No problem with the release of names of accused persons.

[Redfrog]

Rwm, Silver and any one else who thinks the system is perfect, needs to wake up and smell the coffee.\

Silver, firstly I don't care when or if you follow up on your posts, but asking a question like who is Milgard etc. is a shot from the weeds. I answered your question and surprise, you didn't like the answer>

I asked a question and you get your panties in a bunch, so you make a bunch of wild statements about vigilante justice and tarring and feathering , along with unfounded statements of fact that for every Picton there is a Milgard. HOGWASH. The justice system gets it right half the time. Really?

These people were charged as pedophiles. That's it. Not convicted, but you'd have us believe naming them is the same thing.

I read about a man who had numerous convictions and was named several times and he killed 4 mounties. So what exactly is your point?

We aren't talking about killing horses. We are talking about naming people accused of crimes against kids.

[covey ridge]

I for one think that the system is far from perfect and I do not think it will get much better anytime soon. That said at this time it is the only system we have and to get any justice at all we have to work within it. Although it seems to work very slow I think the system deals with mostly law breakers and very few innocent people get caught up.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Rwm, Silver and any one else who thinks the system is perfect, needs to wake up and smell the coffee.\

Silver, firstly I don't care when or if you follow up on your posts, but asking a question like who is Milgard etc. is a shot from the weeds. I answered your question and surprise, you didn't like the answer>

I asked a question and you get your panties in a bunch, so you make a bunch of wild statements about vigilante justice and tarring and feathering , along with unfounded statements of fact that for every Picton there is a Milgard. HOGWASH. The justice system gets it right half the time. Really?

These people were charged as pedophiles. That's it. Not convicted, but you'd have us believe naming them is the same thing.

I read about a man who had numerous convictions and was named several times and he killed 4 mounties. So what exactly is your point?

We aren't talking about killing horses. We are talking about naming people accused of crimes against kids.

I appreciate your position about crimes against kids. I know you have kids and you have grandkids. I know they are most likely the most precious things in your life.

I too have children, and they are my whole life. In my life, my ex has accused me many times of various crimes, and she even claimed I was violent towards my children, all in an attempt to keep me from them, mainly so she could get more in support payments. I have spent many thousands of dollars defending myself from these accusations, and I have been very lucky that I had proof that exonerated me every time. Not everyone is as lucky as I have been. I was able to hire a good lawyer, and I was also smart enough to keep and record things, because after her first accusation, I has provided some very good advice on how to save myself from such accusation. However each time she made such accusations, the court's first step was to limit my access to my children. That was probably the most hurtful thing I have ever had to endure. I have missed many things in my children's lives due to these accusations, and this is something that still hurts me today.

But as some have pointed out, and I know I have made it pretty clear myself, just because someone was charged with a crime does not mean they are guilty. I have also made it pretty clear that the court system is flawed. I am not sure where you can claim that I think the system we have is perfect, because it is far from perfect. In fact, I think our current system is fundamentally flawed.

What I would like is our system changed to afford people protection from harm. That includes both the victims, and the falsely accused. But how do you do this without risking the public? Our courts are very slow to have the wheels of justice turn, and too many criminals get off on technicalities. As raised by wolves point out, harm does happen to a person accused of such crimes when they did nothing wrong. I know of a former teacher who was accused of sexual assaulting a girl in St. Albert. He was fired, his wife divorced him, he had no access to his kids, and he then killed himself. Later the girl admitted she was angry with him because he gave her a detention, and that he had never assaulted her. And here is an article about a Morninville teacher who also had his life turned upside down due to false allegations of sexual assault. http://www.stalbertgazette.com/artic...-the-classroom So how do you protect men from this? And if that is not enough to confirm that it is an issue, here is another case in Edmonton. http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Schoo...689/story.html

I don't just whine about how I have been treated, I am very active in trying to change our system so that people like me don't continue to suffer. I worry now about my son. He is a teenager, and soon he will be exposed to the whims vindictive girls.

[silver]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

While I agree someone may get grief from being named, there is a difference between legal system and justice system.... My reality is the same as BB. "A walk in the woods."

If you have the ability to be perfect, to never make a mistake, to always be right, then go for it.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by silver

If you have the ability to be perfect, to never make a mistake, to always be right, then go for it.

One does not have to be perfect or to never have made a mistake to wish a quick end to such persons which are the subject of this thread. Many here are expressing complete disdain for those who victimize children but I doubt if any here would go for it unless legally allowed.

[silver]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

One does not have to be perfect or to never have made a mistake to wish a quick end to such persons which are the subject of this thread. Many here are expressing complete disdain for those who victimize children but I doubt if any here would go for it unless legally allowed.

He was more than wishing a quick end, he and others were advocating it.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by silver

He was more than wishing a quick end, he and others were advocating it.

I understand where RF and BDB are coming from but not for a second do I think that either would actually take the law into their own hands.

[slivers86]

I'm definitely shocked with this one....

Kyle Ward was a friend of mine from about grade 3-8. We got into a lot of trouble, did some stupid things, but never thought he'd evolve into a monster like this. What a scum bag.

People who have any involvement in child pornography should be jailed for life in gen-pop and desensitized by acid burning.

After talking to my brother who lives in Okotoks, Ward is free and walking around walmart shopping....

[great white whaler]

anybody who hurts a child like that,.,should be choked by the hands of a mad man.

[243 wild cat]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

Many criminals are people who made poor choices but are human. These creatures are far from it. I have the guts to do it, just don't have the same consequences as somebody doing 10 years. The environment of justice is perceived differently and like anywhere a pedo is scum and those who treat them as such are rewarded inside and if it's me I can't provide for my kids anymore. Protected out here and not in there, a sort of reverse park for perverse people

Savages is what they are they're not human there is no doubt in my mind that if i could i would. Just bury everyone of those scum sucking MAGGOTS! and go home and sleep like it was your best sleep ever and knowing in your heart & your self conscience that you had just saved a innocent CHILD!! and there family from a life of hell and pain. But you may be right my consequences for some justice may not help if i where to turn myself in or get caught. So how could the justice system keep these creatures safe. This is not right and we all no it. So what the hell can be done. If anyone reads this post they should take the time to rent a movie called the PUNISHER it was based on a Father that wanted justice. It gives you a peace of mind that the only way to deal with criminal parasites may be his way and show the bad scum that the innocent victims will have JUSTICE!! and that they should be watching there backs and liveing in fear before they choose to hurt someone. Its a must see LOL

[243 wild cat]

Originally Posted by deerhunter

To bad they don't publish the young offenders names also.

Ya what the hell just because their young they have rights BULL S@&* I had watched a documentary about young offenders on discovery channel and the offenders that they interviewed all literally laughed and told the crew that the justice system is a joke! and some of them kids where as young as 11 years old he was saying that he knows how to BUCK the system with being young. He is 11 YEARS OLD for christ sakes!!! what the hell is he going to be like when he is 20 and up. loose the young and what do we see OFFENDERS!!! so treat them like what they are OFFENDERS!!