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11-01-2011, 08:47 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Almaty
Posts: 2,032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pattycr125
after you've killed a fish when doing catch and release due to a barbed hook, it's not hard to agree with debarbing your hooks. sure losing them sucks but it's also so much more rewarding when you catch them and then have a quick clean release.
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I think most participants miss the point of the discussion.
The claim is that "barbless don't save the fish.... It has virtually no statistical difference in fish mortality then barbed hooks..."
1. The statement above may be false, then law makes sense.
2. It can be true, then it's a stupid law, even if it gives some warm and fuzzy feeling
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11-01-2011, 08:47 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneChristie
Shawn are you reading every fishing post ever posted? just curious
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x2
Why are you bringing up old crap on all the forums.
Can't you think up anything fresh by yourself?
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11-01-2011, 09:39 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 232
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I think barless hooks are the way to go.
I think that F&W shouldnt ticket you if they see you tried to pinch the barbs down. Sometimes you pinch it down and its not perfect, and i dont think you should get ticketed for that.
If you made no effort to pinch the barbs down at all, thats worth a ticket.
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11-01-2011, 10:33 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Strathmore
Posts: 536
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Two points;
1- The fact that barbless hooks are about 80% easier to pull back out of my neck or finger makes it good enough for me to use forever; already saved 2 of my kids some extra painful trauma this summer as well!
2- Argue all you want that barbed hooks should be legal, you are probably right correct about them being insignificant to hooking mortality. The fact is, however, IT IS ILLEGAL! Everything from speed limit & seatbelt laws to marijauana laws could, on some level, be successfully argued to be abolished or decriminalised but until then IT IS ILLEGAL. Seems kinda like watching your favourite team lose & saying,"They should have won..." Well maybe they should have, but they didn't.
Just for the record, I don't like barbed hooks personally (see point #1 lol) but if they were legalised again I wouldn't condemn anyone for using them.
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11-02-2011, 12:06 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Almaty
Posts: 2,032
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That is exactly how I see all of the regulations. It's just a set of rules, and I don't understand why some are there and some seem strange, but they should be the same for everybody and followed, otherwise it's just unfair - everybody want to catch fish.
But if something is legal I won't feel sorry for doing something, like eating the fish I catch.
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11-02-2011, 01:22 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 521
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Hahaha.
I am playing catch up too.
I have to remind myself that messageboards are representation of a community. I am certainly glad that there has been a transition towards personal responsibility and conservationism.
In my past life, I was a researcher. The original post premise of 'barbed hooks are equivalent to barbless because fish released after being caught with a barbed hook are probably as likely to survive as a fish caught with a barbless hook'.
It is quite simple:
- Scientifically: how can anyone truly monitor the long term health data of a fish that was caught. 'Dead vs. Not-Dead' is a truly myopic measurement of health.
- Practically: pulling out a barbed hook causes much more damage than a barbless hook. Why would anyone want to unnecessarily hurt a fish that we must release? As mentioned, pulling out a barbed hook from human flesh is way worse than pulling out a barbless hook.
The argument becomes equivalent of 'people who have their legs broken are as likely to live as long as someone who has not had their legs broken'. But seriously, who wants a broken leg?
- Intuitively: How could a barbed hook be better for a catch-and-release fish than a barbless? It just seems kind of sadistic.
I landed a 22" rainbow last week with 2 barbed hooks in his mouth. I seriously doubt that fish lived a better life with a rusty barbed hook in its mouth. A barbless hook would have fallen out...eventually. I know that it is not a great picture, but the hare's ear in the front is mine, and the pink size 8 in the back still has a piece of mono tied to it.
Trout_multipleHooks.jpg
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11-02-2011, 07:23 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by best guide shawn homeniuk
Well maby I can get this forum alive again over the winter
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Please don't.
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11-02-2011, 07:57 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: edmonton
Posts: 504
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Pinched barbs are the way to go. Any money generated for F&W is a good thing.
They are short staffed and need more people in the field to manage our fisheries.
Ten seconds or less to flatten down a barb dude. Pick your battles, this one just seems silly and your "scientific stats" aren't worth doodly squat.
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11-02-2011, 08:37 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Just North West of Edmonton
Posts: 659
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Barbed hooks = Less fight time
Barbless hooks = More fight time for inexperienced fishers
IMO, Better to land a fish fast and have a little more time to take a hook out than watch someone fight a fish for 15 mins and have it's mortality rate significantly increased. Again.........IMO! lol
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11-02-2011, 09:13 AM
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 735
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Barbed hooks are more difficult to remove, so arguably they can cause more damage and time when being removed, but a law that would really make a difference would be to ban bait altogether.
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11-02-2011, 09:38 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demolition101
Barbed hooks = Less fight time
Barbless hooks = More fight time for inexperienced fishers
IMO, Better to land a fish fast and have a little more time to take a hook out than watch someone fight a fish for 15 mins and have it's mortality rate significantly increased. Again.........IMO! lol
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Totally, totally wrong.
With barbless you must keep pressure on a fish so the hook doesn't pop.... that means getting him in ASAP. you can let a fish swim around with no pressure on a barbed hook and he will remain hooked.
Try it your self, drop your rod when you have a barbless hooked fish, he'll get off.
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11-02-2011, 09:49 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: county of vulcan
Posts: 1,078
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Will they be going to the single hooks like in BC also. Seems be alot easier to release with only one single hook.
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11-02-2011, 09:56 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Just North West of Edmonton
Posts: 659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhad
Totally, totally wrong.
With barbless you must keep pressure on a fish so the hook doesn't pop.... that means getting him in ASAP. you can let a fish swim around with no pressure on a barbed hook and he will remain hooked.
Try it your self, drop your rod when you have a barbless hooked fish, he'll get off.
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That's what youre supposed to do but average fishers dont do that. Most I've seen anyways
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I dont care how fast you can run...
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11-02-2011, 11:45 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,412
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A real nice article by Duane Radford in the current Alberta Outdoorsmen magazine that talks about how stupid this law is. For those unaware Duane worked as a Regional Fisheries Biologist, Regional Director and Fisheries Director for the Alberta Fish and Wildlife Division. At the time of this laws enactment.
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11-02-2011, 12:06 PM
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AO Sponsor
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Port Hardy, BC
Posts: 1,386
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While barbless makes it a heck of a lot harder to catch them, I've seen back before it was illegal the damage a barbed hook can do to a salmon, and when it comes to salmon fishing, barbless hooks definitely saves some fish! It's so easy to release them that there is little harm done, and you don't even have to touch the fish, big difference.
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11-02-2011, 12:51 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Almaty
Posts: 2,032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toirtis
Barbed hooks are more difficult to remove, so arguably they can cause more damage and time when being removed, but a law that would really make a difference would be to ban bait altogether.
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Right...
Or make every lake C&R in Alberta (as some suggested earlier) or ban fishing altogether - would make even more difference...
Next step would be to make hunting C&R - like drug the animal to hug him for the picture, later on ban hunting altogether as well...
Is it a PETA infiltration to the forum?
If barbs don't make any difference (which none of us researched in depth) - it is a stupid law (IMHO)
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11-02-2011, 02:35 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 931
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I have done my own real life studies on live fish.
Barbless hooks ...less fish mortality if you plan on releasing what you catch.
I will gladly lose a few fish when bringing them in then have more die when removing embedded hooks.
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11-02-2011, 03:10 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,268
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every one of us has had experiences removing stubborn hooks from fishes mouths. barbless makes it a bit easier. ive seen people squeeze the begeezuz out of fish in an effort to remove a hook. of fricken course its a good idea!!!! wow!
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11-02-2011, 04:55 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Almaty
Posts: 2,032
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I would maybe used barbed when fishing for something I can and plan to keep - lake whitefish, perch (if I ever find it). But for the most part I agree barbless makes life easier and doesn't bother me much.
Shoudn't be a law though if it isn't making the difference.
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11-02-2011, 05:13 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,268
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but it is making a differance! ive seen the differance..... the handling of the fish is where most of the mortality arises..... ever see people squeeze the crap out of a 1 lb hammer handle while removing a hook? i have. lots.
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11-02-2011, 05:20 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: down by the river
Posts: 11,428
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There isn't a simple answer to this issue.
When targeting certain species it would be useful to have barbs and the conservation implications would be nil. ie whitefish
Fishing intensity has the greatest impact on the resource, no matter what technique is applied.
That said, there is still a huge lack of education or resources available that show people how to C&R in a low impact manner.
One still needs to pour over this site in order to find instructions on how to make a low impact sturgeon rig. These types of resources should be available.
Having a single authoritative resource for the province would go far. This way when issues are brought to the SRD they can provide a simple solution which is publicly available.
I don't believe barbless hooks increase the fight time. I think gear size influences fight time.
Barbed hooks definitely cause more tissue trauma.
One of the reasons that streams went barbless in BC is because mortality in trout less than 25-30cm was very high. I believe it.
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11-02-2011, 07:27 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209x50
A real nice article by Duane Radford in the current Alberta Outdoorsmen magazine that talks about how stupid this law is. For those unaware Duane worked as a Regional Fisheries Biologist, Regional Director and Fisheries Director for the Alberta Fish and Wildlife Division. At the time of this laws enactment.
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While I respect Duane I do not agree with him when it comes to the use of Barbed treble hooks on Spoons or spinners. Barbed flies which of course are a single I would tend to agree a little more that they don't have much of a difference. But treble barbed hooks are devasting. I have experimented with this the National Parks and have seen the evidence.
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11-02-2011, 07:41 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serengeti Charters
While barbless makes it a heck of a lot harder to catch them, I've seen back before it was illegal the damage a barbed hook can do to a salmon, and when it comes to salmon fishing, barbless hooks definitely saves some fish! It's so easy to release them that there is little harm done, and you don't even have to touch the fish, big difference.
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Would you also say more fish get away and so from a sporting perspective...fewer fish get harvested than might of happened with barbed hooks?
There is a significant sporting component to this...it does mean you need to be a better fisherman to land the fish.
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11-02-2011, 07:48 PM
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AO Sponsor
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Port Hardy, BC
Posts: 1,386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
Would you also say more fish get away and so from a sporting perspective...fewer fish get harvested than might of happened with barbed hooks?
There is a significant sporting component to this...it does mean you need to be a better fisherman to land the fish.
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Absolutely!!! Way more fish get away...with barbed I'd say 80% of Chinook salmon that get hooked get caught even by guys I have out for the first time; whereas with barbless a novice angler will only catch about 33%-40% of Chinook salmon at most.
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11-02-2011, 09:10 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,145
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Tight lines, it aint rocket surgery.
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Former Ford Fan
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11-02-2011, 09:12 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 24,071
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__________________
Only dead fish go with the flow. The rest use their brains in life.
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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11-02-2011, 09:34 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 16,992
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Alberta Bigbore
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11-02-2011, 09:57 PM
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 5,385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serengeti Charters
Absolutely!!! Way more fish get away...with barbed I'd say 80% of Chinook salmon that get hooked get caught even by guys I have out for the first time; whereas with barbless a novice angler will only catch about 33%-40% of Chinook salmon at most.
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Well said, but i do think barb less hooks do help especially when they are spawning in rivers, play the fish right you should be able to bring it in
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11-02-2011, 11:28 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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K, I might as well put in my two cents worth.
The way I see it, barbed or barbless, makes no never mind to me.
I can catch fish with either, so if the law says barbless, barbless it is.
As to mortality, most of what I catch goes to the fry pan anyway. It is the #1 reason that I fish. So mortality for those fish is 100% anyway.
Naturally I release the smaller ones, I always did, long before catch and release became popular. I learned long ago that I could reduce the number of small fish caught by using big baits/lures. I still catch a few under legal size, they get released.
Oh and I don't fight the small fish. I use heavy tackle and real the small ones in ASAP. Minimal time on the hook, minimal time out of the water.
I want that fish to survive so I can eat it when it gets BIG.
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11-03-2011, 07:16 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,619
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Very little if any difference.
In England most fishing(except Trout/Salmon) is catch and release.
Some of the fish have been caught so many times they have even been given names.
Mostly they have been caught on barbed hooks.
If a fish takes the hook in the gills or gullet snip the line and let it go,the hooks will rust or be disolved and most fish will survive, barbed or not.
I have caught and kept pike with treble barbed hooks inside their bellys that are almost completely disolved.
The fish were healthy and obviously no worse for wear.
Barbless DEFINATLY increases the chanch of a fish escaping,at least in my view.
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