crossbow season?

[amanda]

After catching up on all the posts and trying to comprehend why all the infighting between different hunting groups I see that the AB Gov't has inplemented a crossbow season in the CWD area the last 2 weeks of the archery season. Instead of banding together to find a solution someone else did it for us. This is the beginning of crossbows during archery season!! Its the right thing to do!!

[tallguy]

I heard that too! thank goodness for that!!

[Stinky Coyote]

every little bit helps...heck we got sunday hunting this year, i think i can live without the crossbow inclusion for one more year

but dang it.....i want to be pleasantly surprised next year just like i was this year....so that crossbow inclusion will hopefully be there next year?

[Mistagin]

Hi all, just thought I'd jump into this discussion as a soon-to-be Alberta hunter .

In September I'm coming from Ontario where I used to hunt in archery seasons with a long bow many seasons ago , then due to moving around a lot because I was going to post-secondary school to prepare for my present "career", and a resulting lack of time, and a location for consistent practice, I laid aside my bow and guns for a few years. I resumed rifle hunting for whitetails about 7 years ago, then in order to enjoy longer seasons I purchased a crossbow 3 years ago (an Excalibur Phoenix), and last year I got some new arrows made for my recurve and also resumed sporadically practicing with it - but I'm nowhere good enough to hunt with it yet!

So, to put in my 2 cents worth, I hope, this fall if at all possible, after my wife and I get settled in northern Alberta, to start out rifle hunting and using my crossbow. Then, in the 2009 season, I hope to be proficient enough with my recurve to use it in the archery season too.

Long bow, crossbow, firearms - as far as I'm concerned they are all ways to enjoy being out hunting in God's great outdoors .

Take care,
Mistagin

[tth_12032]

One thing many of you may not have considered - crossbows make bow hunting more accessible for WOMEN!! I pull 50 lbs with my bow but I know that most women can't even make it to 40 lbs. All the conservation organisations know that women are the future to hunting - if you get females into hunting then more kids can also be recruited.

Think long term here people! Crossbows may give a slight advantage and therefore equal more bagged deer but we are not in a situation where we need to consider population conservation. What we need to consider is increasing the hunting population so we can build support for our lifestyle and ensure continuance of our heritage.

[jimbos1]

what was the reason for a bow permit in alberta??? when hunting in saskathcewan we never needed a permit for bow. Seems to me like another money grab for government.

[bull9898]

I hope they let us use our crossbows in the archery season next year then i can stop going in the moose calling season draws for rifle and just get ur done with my excalibre.

[MathewsArcher]

Given that the allowable harvest for archery is only 10% (approx. from the Alberta Bowhunting policy) you would likely still have to apply. Only now you would have to hunt in the draw season with the rifle, bow and/ crossbow hunters. This is what has happened in some of our southern zones where the archery harvest exceeded the 10% allotment. No more general archery moose hunt (many wmu 300 series zones).

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

Given that the allowable harvest for archery is only 10% (approx. from the Alberta Bowhunting policy) you would likely still have to apply. Only now you would have to hunt in the draw season with the rifle, bow and/ crossbow hunters. This is what has happened in some of our southern zones where the archery harvest exceeded the 10% allotment. No more general archery moose hunt (many wmu 300 series zones).

Which is a good thing. Some critters are pretty easy to kill with a bow. I missed getting after them general closer to home by just a season. The crossbow won't change any of this....if a season needs to be closed for a critter in certain location then it will need to be closed whether the crossbow is allowed or not. They are too close to each other in performance to fight their inclusion for this particular reason.....actually there is NO reason not to include them.

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

The crossbow won't change any of this....if a season needs to be closed for a critter in certain location then it will need to be closed whether the crossbow is allowed or not.

I think you are a little off base on this. If crossbows were allowed into the Archery only season the number of crossbow hunters would surely meet or exceed the current bowhunter numbers. The net result (even if the success rate stayed the same) would be a huge spike in the overall harvest within the archery season and the result would be more draws in the Archery season.

Curious how you come to the conclusion that the crossbow would not have any effect on an archery season going to draw if they were permitted?

[russ]

we won't even touch the absolute HOAX regarding the cross bow being an equal weapon.

Pushing that LIE is just laughable and totally challenges the credibilty of the crossbow CON JOB

This whole thing reminds me of the muzzle loader LIE. Remember the muzzle loader is only a 50-100 yd weapon. What a bunch of BS that turned out to be. Primitive weapon my butt.

[Stinky Coyote]

Russ that was funny, a good laugh is a great way to start the week, thanks.

I'll take my compound against you with a crossbow any day for in field distance shooting at game....bet i still get it done everybit as good or maybe even better than you can. Nice try with your 'lie' of a post. You apparently have a problem with the data available from places where the crossbow exists with the bow. I know you haven't heard this before but at the end of the day its "just another bow".

Just like my mathews set up and pinned to 90 yrds is still a bow compared to a 15 yr old compound bow lucky to be pinned to 40 yrds.....they are all still just bows. Up to the individual to figure his own limits. AND.....

Just like the guys with guns, a few learn to shoot them quite far....but most hit the range once to see if still close enough at 100 yrds and then go hunting. The majority are capable to maybe up to 250 yrds tops with regular modern firearms but some are putting in the time to go 3x that distance. You think the crossbow will make it any different and all of a sudden the majority will be superstar hunters? Lol, yeah right. Might be a few who can make them go further but probably no further than current compound shooters in real world hunting can make their 'bows' go.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

I think you are a little off base on this. If crossbows were allowed into the Archery only season the number of crossbow hunters would surely meet or exceed the current bowhunter numbers. The net result (even if the success rate stayed the same) would be a huge spike in the overall harvest within the archery season and the result would be more draws in the Archery season.

Curious how you come to the conclusion that the crossbow would not have any effect on an archery season going to draw if they were permitted?

I believe your possibility could be right? In certain areas where the threshold numbers are tight that maybe, just maybe, enough other hunters would grab a crossbow and get a few more animals killed to push things to a draw. A bad winter could possibly kill enough to do the same? Or maybe increased aboriginal hunting could have effect also? Or maybe just a combo of the last two? At least i believe the possibilty is there....i also believe that my own possibility of it not making much of a difference could also be right and that compound bow guys are effective enough to push things to a draw all by themselves. There is really only one way to find out forsure i guess.....or study the places they've been allowed already.

Still need to manage the animals accordingly but not allowing the tool where it fits first seems rediculous to me. A tool that 'all' hunters in Alberta can learn to use effectively and experience that up close bowhunting challenge.

End of day its like 95% positive for Alberta hunters overall and possibly 5% negative.

The 5% negative of course being the few trophy mule deer hunters that like to do it year in and year out on general tag rather than waiting a few years for a draw.

I would also agree that if allowed in....because its new etc. that lots of people would jump in and try it out and potentially bring some additional negative for the first couple years?......a 'learning curve' if you will.............the same would happen for any new tool/season allowed i'm sure....but i also believe that it would quickly settle down as the bandwagon jumpers would learn very fast the tools real world capabilities are essentially identical to modern compound bow. Then things would go on cruise like everything else we are already used to is.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by russ

we won't even touch the absolute HOAX regarding the cross bow being an equal weapon.

Pushing that LIE is just laughable and totally challenges the credibilty of the crossbow CON JOB

This whole thing reminds me of the muzzle loader LIE. Remember the muzzle loader is only a 50-100 yd weapon. What a bunch of BS that turned out to be. Primitive weapon my butt.

A cb is pretty much restricted for use in a treestand or blind. It's too cumbersome to stalk with and potentially dangerous too. Definately not the bow of choice for elk hunting. The difference of having a cb in your treestand and having a bow in your treestand is more similar to the difference of having a shotgun or rifle or ML vs a bow in your treestand. When you put yourself in a tree you don't position yourself to make 100 yard shots.......what...you're sitting in the only tree on the prairie lol? I've never been in a tree where I could shoot more 50 than yards and most times it's not posssible to see through the trees out to 20-30 yards. I don't say that from any lack of experience with a bow of any type. I use them all, including crossbows. I hunt 99.9% of the time with a compound bow. Never have killed a big game animal with anything that shoots lead. I know that I could increase my odds in killing animals exponentially with a cb (or a lead shooter). Pretty much every animal that I have the crosshairs on would go down. Pretty much every one that comes into view would have the crosshairs pinned on it. 60 yard shots are too easy with my 225# Exomax and scope. That would give me an advantage equal to having a shotgun or ml or rifle. Can't say that for a compound.......seeing an animal come into view and having to wait to draw decreases your odds. Increases your odds of getting busted making the draw..............it happens regularly to me anyway. I accept that. Any long time archer would recognize that for what it is (the admission of cb's into the archery season). More dead critters with less time and effort invested. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But there is also nothing wrong with our present system. So what crossbows aren't included in the archery season? Pick another bow and get on with it. Not inclusive enough for you? You like inclusiveness and all the junk it brings with it? And all the things you lose because of it? The status quo is not always wrong is it? I like my crossbow and I expect to use it for spring bear. The landscape is changing for sure. Crossbows are making inroads in states where they were once restricted or prohibited (still a minority though).......I liken that to any of the inclusiveness issues (special interest groups, cultural issues, gay marriage for instance). Please don't be offended or explode on the fact that I typed "gay marriage". It's an example, not an issue I'm bringing up. So, bring this up at your own peril.

[conservationist]

I have not one but two two injuries that prevent me from using my compound. I applied for a crossbow permit and was denied - the rejection letter stated that "a Limb must be missing or permanently paralyzed" for an arm injury to qualify one for a permit
I am not too lazy to practice (although farming and a full time job limit my time to do so) and I am not associated with the crossbow industry in any way - I just want to leagally hunt my own land in archery season. And, since I can't, at least in part due to the fallacious ranting against crossbows by the Alberta Bowhunters Association, I will be much less likely to grant access permission to ABA members than I was previously. A selfish attitude to be sure; exactly like the ABA has towards "thier" archery season. It pains me to sink to this level, and I will certainly change my attitude if the ABA reverses it's fallacious positon on crossbows, or at the very least supports their use by people who can't use a compound or longbow for one reason or another.

[russ]

what are your 2 injuries,

If it involves the rotator cuff, you can't hold up an x-bow anyway.

Oh and I love the demonizing of a specific group, right out of a play book.

For your info there are a number of solutions available to you that will allow you to hunt with a bow. Maybe you should look into them?

[Stinky Coyote]

ehuntr said...

Pretty much every one that comes into view would have the crosshairs pinned on it. 60 yard shots are too easy with my 225# Exomax and scope. That would give me an advantage equal to having a shotgun or ml or rifle. Can't say that for a compound.......

I can say that for a compound, know a few guys who can too, not that hard. You know any range pro's that come apart on game and any not so practiced guys who kill everything they shoot at? You ever heard of that in the hunting community before? The tool is just a tool, some guys make it work for them when it counts, some only at the range, some further than others, and lots only make it work for them marginally period.....its the same for all tools we hunters use.

How much data from the world do you need before you'll get that its just another bow?

Sure you can make it do this and do that. I can make my compound do that too. You should be able to also, you sound like an archery stud to me.

What are you so scared of? Come out from under the bed man....its just a bow.

[russ]

actually Stinky I know a ton of people that could hand you your butt in a heart beat that would NEVER consider a 60 yd shot with a compound. Of course there's guys on here that CLAIM (operative word here) that they get 3" groups @ 60 yds! Hate to tell them this, but that's WORLD CLASS & WORLD RECORD shooting ability. In other words they're completely full of it. On the other hand, I know of 2 people that robin hooded with a cross bow at that distance 1st time out! Hmmmm, someone's dumbing down the equipment a bit maybe? Nah the x-bow guys would never do that? Eh, not like the muzzle loader guys & their 50 yd weapon argument.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

I think you are a little off base on this. If crossbows were allowed into the Archery only season the number of crossbow hunters would surely meet or exceed the current bowhunter numbers. The net result (even if the success rate stayed the same) would be a huge spike in the overall harvest within the archery season and the result would be more draws in the Archery season.

Curious how you come to the conclusion that the crossbow would not have any effect on an archery season going to draw if they were permitted?

What would be wrong with draws in the archery season?

[russ]

Originally Posted by 209x50

What would be wrong with draws in the archery season?

Better question what would be right about it?

[209x50]

Originally Posted by russ

Better question what would be right about it?

Everything, equality for starters, everyone else has to draw why shouldn't archers? To not want changes to a season because you would have to draw for your tags sounds kind of selfish to me.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Everything, equality for starters, everyone else has to draw why shouldn't archers? To not want changes to a season because you would have to draw for your tags sounds kind of selfish to me.

Selfish. That word gets a lot of use on this subject.

Do you see yourself on the short end of the stick? Why? Pick up a bow and use it in the archery season. Not everything has to be equal. Why is it that equality is an issue? Equality should be treated as a social issue not a substantive issue. Should everyone have an equal salary? An equal piece of property to call their own? An equal house? A bow is not equal to a rifle. Some people cannot shoot a rifle, some people cannot be an astronaut, some people cannot shoot a bow.......get over it. Why would you want to yank away any benefit that the archery season provides bowhunters? What is the purpose of that? That sounds downright selfish, mean, miserable, lowly and self serving to me.

Lets divide your assets up and distribute them equally to those less fortunate. To not agree to do this because you worked hard for your property sounds kind of selfish to me.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Selfish. That word gets a lot of use on this subject.

Do you see yourself on the short end of the stick? Why? Pick up a bow and use it in the archery season. Not everything has to be equal. Why is it that equality is an issue? Equality should be treated as a social issue not a substantive issue. Should everyone have an equal salary? An equal piece of property to call their own? An equal house? A bow is not equal to a rifle. Some people cannot shoot a rifle, some people cannot be an astronaut, some people cannot shoot a bow.......get over it. Why would you want to yank away any benefit that the archery season provides bowhunters? What is the purpose of that? That sounds downright selfish, mean, miserable, lowly and self serving to me.

Lets divide your assets up and distribute them equally to those less fortunate. To not agree to do this because you worked hard for your property sounds kind of selfish to me.

Ok, so then: What would be wrong with draws in the archery season?

[Trav]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Ok, so then: What would be wrong with draws in the archery season?

When there is maybe enough animals to what the fish and wildlife think is a respectable # of animals harvested with bows then maybe. The success rate of most bowhunters is low, some have better luck than others in harvesting animals but most dont. I talked to a guy last night and he has hunted 6 years in a row and never killed an animal with his bow. Why make it harder than it already is on archery hunters. moose is on draw in a few zones right now because the #'s are down in those zones, the ones that are not down have an archery tag. In my home zone with the spreading of CWD they have taken out the draws all together for everyone. now you want you want to add the draw system to deer in all the zones that really goes against the goal of the fish and wildlife. Every year there are more hunters hangin up there rifles and bows because of the new rules being implied. with less hunters out hunting there is more animals that need to be controled. If we go to a draw system for everything how do we get the harvested #'s where they need to be.

By the way if you want a draw system for archery stick with your antelope and let others be happy with what is done now. this is a draw only...Why?.........because the #'s are down and the F&W think this is the way it needs to be.

[Tony_S]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Ok, so then: What would be wrong with draws in the archery season?

I'm not sure that you have a full grip on why we have a draw system(Either that or your just "pushing buttons"). Draw's are used as a harvest control tool during the rifle season, and a very limited amount during archery season.
Low numbers of hunters during archery season, in combination with fairly low harvest rates = No need for draws during archery season.

And yes, I bow hunt. And yes, I agree with the majority of bow hunters. If you'd like to hunt during archery season, buy a bow.

JMO
Tony

[209x50]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Selfish. That word gets a lot of use on this subject.

Do you see yourself on the short end of the stick? Why? Pick up a bow and use it in the archery season. Not everything has to be equal. Why is it that equality is an issue? Equality should be treated as a social issue not a substantive issue. Should everyone have an equal salary? An equal piece of property to call their own? An equal house? A bow is not equal to a rifle. Some people cannot shoot a rifle, some people cannot be an astronaut, some people cannot shoot a bow.......get over it. Why would you want to yank away any benefit that the archery season provides bowhunters? What is the purpose of that? That sounds downright selfish, mean, miserable, lowly and self serving to me.

Lets divide your assets up and distribute them equally to those less fortunate. To not agree to do this because you worked hard for your property sounds kind of selfish to me.

I wasn't going to mention the difference between personal assets and public resources, but then I realized you didn't know the difference.
What you or I earn and accumulate is our personal assets - to divide them up as your post suggests is a staple of the communist manifesto.
Public resources like our wild game are owned by all the people and therefore all the people should have equal access to them.
Do you see the difference?

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Trav

When there is maybe enough animals to what the fish and wildlife think is a respectable # of animals harvested with bows then maybe. The success rate of most bowhunters is low, some have better luck than others in harvesting animals but most dont. I talked to a guy last night and he has hunted 6 years in a row and never killed an animal with his bow. Why make it harder than it already is on archery hunters. moose is on draw in a few zones right now because the #'s are down in those zones, the ones that are not down have an archery tag. In my home zone with the spreading of CWD they have taken out the draws all together for everyone. now you want you want to add the draw system to deer in all the zones that really goes against the goal of the fish and wildlife. Every year there are more hunters hangin up there rifles and bows because of the new rules being implied. with less hunters out hunting there is more animals that need to be controled.

By the way if you want a draw system for archery stick with your antelope and let others be happy with what is done now. this is a draw only...Why?.........because the #'s are down and the F&W think this is the way it needs to be.

I do wish people would take the time to read before they post. Long Draw was the one who stated more success during the archery season would require archers being on draw. I don't see a problem with that, what is your problem with archers being on draw?

If we go to a draw system for everything how do we get the harvested #'s where they need to be.

Let crossbows into the season, pretty simple.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Tony_S

I'm not sure that you have a full grip on why we have a draw system(Either that or your just "pushing buttons"). Draw's are used as a harvest control tool during the rifle season, and a very limited amount during archery season.
Low numbers of hunters during archery season, in combination with fairly low harvest rates = No need for draws during archery season.

And yes, I bow hunt. And yes, I agree with the majority of bow hunters. If you'd like to hunt during archery season, buy a bow.

JMO
Tony

I fully understand what draws are for, and using the argument that crossbows would kill too many animals and cause the archers to be on draw just don't fly with me. Some of us can't use a bow (elbow surgery) yet don't qualify for the exception, I was one who helped bring about the special archery season and now can't hunt during it. The number of exclusive archery only hunters in Alberta is minuscule and I doubt the inclusion of Crossbow hunters would affect the average hunters success rate and I don't care if it does force the archers into the draw.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I wasn't going to mention the difference between personal assets and public resources, but then I realized you didn't know the difference.
What you or I earn and accumulate is our personal assets - to divide them up as your post suggests is a staple of the communist manifesto.
Public resources like our wild game are owned by all the people and therefore all the people should have equal access to them.
Do you see the difference?

I wasn't going to mention the difference between personal assets and public resources, but then I realized you didn't know the difference.

LOL

What you or I earn and accumulate is our personal assets - to divide them up as your post suggests is a staple of the communist manifesto.

I didn't suggest that at all...it was duly referenced by . It was a sarcastic remark aimed at your "equality" suggestion. Do you honestly believe that you do not have "equal" access to our wild animals because of the differences between bowhunting and rifle hunting. I wasn't going to mention the difference between a rifle and a bow, but then I realized you didn't know the difference. Your stated attitude appears to be lets slice and dice the archery draw ratio: If you have to draw everyone must draw. What is wrong with the way it is? Why would you want to trounce it? For the good of bowhunting? Equality for the people comrade! Put down your arms and pick up your hammers and scythes. Only the outfitters will have tags henceforth.

russQuote:
Originally Posted by 209x50
What would be wrong with draws in the archery season?

russ: Better question what would be right about it?

What would be right about cutting off ones leg? Ahhhhhhh........it's not your leg.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by ehntr

. Do you honestly believe that you do not have "equal" access to our wild animals because of the differences between bowhunting and rifle hunting.

Archers hunt mule deer and moose every year, I wait 3 years to draw either. I can't bow hunt so no I don't have equal access. How hard is that to understand?

Your stated attitude appears to be lets slice and dice the archery draw ratio: If you have to draw everyone must draw. What is wrong with the way it is? Why would you want to trounce it?

Yes, that is exactly the way I feel, at this point I have exhausted all my approaches the only chance I have is if crossbows are allowed in archery season. No crossbows no archery hunting for me, plenty good reason to "trounce" it in my view.

What would be right about cutting off ones leg? Ahhhhhhh........it's not your leg.

Now you are catching on...