In Healthcare the Battle Lines are Drawn

[britman101]

Well after the AHS CEO announced there will be hiring freezes as AHS looks to be in a deficit position for 2024, the nurses sent back one heck of a reply. The UNA, nurse's union of Alberta, has stated they want a wage increase. Hopefully Danielle Smith is sitting down when she reads this. The nurse's want:

- first year - 25 percent wage increase.
- second year- 10 percent wage increase.

Oh my god, so much for fiscal restraint, the battle lines have been drawn.

[elkhunter11]

25%? Who do they think they are, politicians?

[sewerrat]

They still be whining about something else next year.

[moniaw24]

wouldn't we all like a 25% increase, there is always someone else who is willing to work more for less

[Drewski Canuck]

Actually, GOA got away with a great deal, but it started to count at the expiry of the 2019 Contract, which expires March 2024:

In the current contract, the UNA had negotiated a 4.25% wage increase over 4 years. While that was better than the contract they got under the NDP, it came short of allowing pay for nurses to keep up with inflation last year, never mind all 4 years of the contract.

In March 2016, the last time UNA members received a wage prior to the current contract, Alberta’s consumer price index was 135.0. In March of this year, it sat at 161.7, an increase of 19.78%.

During that same period, wages increased only 2.25%. That means that these nurses have received a reduction in real wages of 17.53%.

In other words, for every $100 they spent in March 2016, they can now afford only to spend $82.47.

And that’s not including inflation, which is sitting at 3.7%, as of last month, or the 2% raise for the final year of the contract.

For a few years of Contract Negotiations, GOA was threatening a "wage rollback" of 5 %, cumulative from 2019 for each year that the 2019 wages were paid.

The Contract was finally settled in January 2023, retroactive to 2019, but it was 4.25 % over the time period, with no "wage rollback". Of course Inflation took off in 2023, but after January 2023.

So you can see that the writing is on the wall for wage increases. If GOA wants to get young people into nursing, it has to be worthwhile, and we don't have alot of young people to go around. Immigrants typically do not have the qualifications and have to go through the 4 year BSc Nursing program like everyone else.

Getting Nurses to leave their home provinces to move to Alberta is going to be a challenge as the rest of Canada hates Alberta, and believes what the CBC says about us.

I for one have never seen babies roasted on a spit in Alberta, but try to tell that to someone from Ontario.

Drewski

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by moniaw24

wouldn't we all like a 25% increase, there is always someone else who is willing to work more for less

Not the in the healthcare field. There are clear doctor and nurse shortages quite literally everywhere.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Actually, GOA got away with a great deal, but it started to count at the expiry of the 2019 Contract, which expires March 2024:

In the current contract, the UNA had negotiated a 4.25% wage increase over 4 years. While that was better than the contract they got under the NDP, it came short of allowing pay for nurses to keep up with inflation last year, never mind all 4 years of the contract.

In March 2016, the last time UNA members received a wage prior to the current contract, Alberta’s consumer price index was 135.0. In March of this year, it sat at 161.7, an increase of 19.78%.

During that same period, wages increased only 2.25%. That means that these nurses have received a reduction in real wages of 17.53%.

In other words, for every $100 they spent in March 2016, they can now afford only to spend $82.47.

And that’s not including inflation, which is sitting at 3.7%, as of last month, or the 2% raise for the final year of the contract.

For a few years of Contract Negotiations, GOA was threatening a "wage rollback" of 5 %, cumulative from 2019 for each year that the 2019 wages were paid.

The Contract was finally settled in January 2023, retroactive to 2019, but it was 4.25 % over the time period, with no "wage rollback". Of course Inflation took off in 2023, but after January 2023.

So you can see that the writing is on the wall for wage increases. If GOA wants to get young people into nursing, it has to be worthwhile, and we don't have alot of young people to go around. Immigrants typically do not have the qualifications and have to go through the 4 year BSc Nursing program like everyone else.

Getting Nurses to leave their home provinces to move to Alberta is going to be a challenge as the rest of Canada hates Alberta, and believes what the CBC says about us.

I for one have never seen babies roasted on a spit in Alberta, but try to tell that to someone from Ontario.

Drewski

Well guess what, most of us lost buying power over the last few years due to inflation. And if everyone got a raise to match inflation, guess what effect that would have on inflation? The federal government and their irresponsible spending, and their carbon tax caused the unusually high inflation, and we all have had to suffer because of it.

[CanadianPsycho]

Price to be paid to staff the hospitals and clinics in this province. Short sighted low ball contracts simply make it more expensive in the future when a larger raise is required to keep people working. If you look at the AHS job postings there are an awful lot of empty spots that go unfilled. If they want those postings filled then they need to attract people and that means increasing compensation. Personally I say good on them. Id rather the gov pay for health care then give away money to the corps. Also beats paying travel nurses insane wages for them to fill all the holes.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by moniaw24

wouldn't we all like a 25% increase, there is always someone else who is willing to work more for less

If that was true Alberta wouldn't be paying agency nurses to work in rural hospitals. When the RN they hire out is pulling in over $100 hour (plus housing, travel, etc, etc), god only knows how much the agency itself is making on the deal.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by britman101

Well after the AHS CEO announced there will be hiring freezes as AHS looks to be in a deficit position for 2024, the nurses sent back one heck of a reply. The UNA, nurse's union of Alberta, has stated they want a wage increase. Hopefully Danielle Smith is sitting down when she reads this. The nurse's want:

- first year - 25 percent wage increase.
- second year- 10 percent wage increase.

Oh my god, so much for fiscal restraint, the battle lines have been drawn.

Hiring freeze? What hiring freeze?

"Alberta Health Services (AHS) says changes to its hiring policy that require senior approval to take on new staff do not constitute a hiring freeze [...]"

So if a new hire now requires "senior approval", who could approve a new hire before?

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...-hiring-freeze

ARG

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Scott h

If that was true Alberta wouldn't be paying agency nurses to work in rural hospitals. When the RN they hire out is pulling in over $100 hour (plus housing, travel, etc, etc), god only knows how much the agency itself is making on the deal.

So, quit hiring contract nurses altogether. Offer them a regular position where the voids exist. At some point they would rather work at a great paying job than not pay their rent.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Actually, GOA got away with a great deal, but it started to count at the expiry of the 2019 Contract, which expires March 2024:

In the current contract, the UNA had negotiated a 4.25% wage increase over 4 years. While that was better than the contract they got under the NDP, it came short of allowing pay for nurses to keep up with inflation last year, never mind all 4 years of the contract.

In March 2016, the last time UNA members received a wage prior to the current contract, Alberta’s consumer price index was 135.0. In March of this year, it sat at 161.7, an increase of 19.78%.

During that same period, wages increased only 2.25%. That means that these nurses have received a reduction in real wages of 17.53%.

In other words, for every $100 they spent in March 2016, they can now afford only to spend $82.47.

And that’s not including inflation, which is sitting at 3.7%, as of last month, or the 2% raise for the final year of the contract.

For a few years of Contract Negotiations, GOA was threatening a "wage rollback" of 5 %, cumulative from 2019 for each year that the 2019 wages were paid.

The Contract was finally settled in January 2023, retroactive to 2019, but it was 4.25 % over the time period, with no "wage rollback". Of course Inflation took off in 2023, but after January 2023.

So you can see that the writing is on the wall for wage increases. If GOA wants to get young people into nursing, it has to be worthwhile, and we don't have alot of young people to go around. Immigrants typically do not have the qualifications and have to go through the 4 year BSc Nursing program like everyone else.

Getting Nurses to leave their home provinces to move to Alberta is going to be a challenge as the rest of Canada hates Alberta, and believes what the CBC says about us.

I for one have never seen babies roasted on a spit in Alberta, but try to tell that to someone from Ontario.

Drewski

I am not sure about right now but AB has the highest (or we did) paid nurses in the country, with the lowest cost of living. Until we start losing nurses to PEI the wages should be frozen. That applies to all government union positions. These unions embolden the problem that Trudeau has created; they need to feel the pain first and foremost of their political alignments.

[sns2]

My daughter just applied to a nursing faculty yesterday

[Cement Bench]

Originally Posted by sns2

My daughter just applied to a nursing faculty yesterday

nice investment in a retirement income buddy

[schleprock]

My late sister was a nurse. She refused to take a fulltime position because there was way more money to be made being part time and cashing in on the overtime opportunities. If the government could get the nurses to take fulltime positions and get rid of the overtime scam, a lot of money would be saved.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by sns2

My daughter just applied to a nursing faculty yesterday

100,000 plus and a defined benefit pension, her future is bright; best buy her some shades.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by sns2

My daughter just applied to a nursing faculty yesterday

25% wage increase in one year...I may apply Monday. I'm in the wrong industry

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by schleprock

My late sister was a nurse. She refused to take a fulltime position because there was way more money to be made being part time and cashing in on the overtime opportunities. If the government could get the nurses to take fulltime positions and get rid of the overtime scam, a lot of money would be saved.

The overtime you are talking about is only if they get mandated to work not for just taking a shift outside of their part time line. If they are not mandated or worked enough hours for the day/week or not getting sufficient rest period between shifts they don’t get overtime picking up shifts

Casuals and part times lines help make the system work to cover those in full time positions when their shifts need coverage

But yes there is enough of a shortage that a portion of those who pick up shifts won’t do so till mandated because they get paid more

There is a little more to it

[Sundancefisher]

I’d say more nurses would take less increase if they weren’t stretched so thin and worked so hard.

Lots of talk about how nurses are needed but haven’t seen numbers.

[Albertadiver]

I don't want to re-type most of what I've already said on another thread, so here's me quoting me:

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

I don't want to get into details, but in the last two years I've been in hospital 3 times. First was for about 3 weeks on an emergency basis, including nearly a week in intensive care after an emergency life saving surgery. The surgeon didn't tell me how perilous my situation was until after the surgery was successful.

The other two events involved ambulance trips. Fire and EMS responded within minutes, had me assessed and on my way. Once into emergency care I had nearly immediate tests, bloodwork, doctor attention, etc. This was at two different hospitals.

The care from front line staff and hospital staff has been absolutely outstanding. Being in hospital is not a fun time, and I couldn't believe how rude and uncooperative many patients are. I tried to be as polite and thankful as I could given my circumstances and it went a LONG ways with the staff I encountered.

I am still getting care from various specialty doctors outside of the hospital and again, the care has been exceptional. I'm alive today due to prompt, thorough, and diligent care.

Now on the flipside, with my secular work I've had lots of encounters with the management side of AHS. I could go on for a long time about the bloated, inefficient, wasteful, sometimes intentionally obstructionist, bureaucratic mess that wastes our taxpayers money.

But this thread is about positive experiences. I can't say enough about the nurses and doctors that do genuinely care about their patients. At my lowest point, where I was in a fair amount of despair, I had the sweetest nurse just hold my hand for a few minutes and gave me comfort when I was broken. I'm a big tough man's man that doesn't show feelings, but when you're facing your own mortality and you're on your own because your wife has COVID and can't come see you, this nurse was there for me. A small gesture on her part gave me the backing to keep fighting for another day. She didn't have to do that, but it meant a ton to me and although my memory is really fuzzy from that stint in the hospital, that is one event that I will always remember.

I now always make a point of thanking front line staff and first responders whenever I have the opportunity.

If the front line folks truly get a salary increase and it doesn't go to middle management or administration, I would be in favor of a fair increase to Doctors and Nurses and other staff directly involved in helping patients.

I stay out of politics, but if you work hard, and provide a valuable service, I think you should be compensated accordingly.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I’d say more nurses would take less increase if they weren’t stretched so thin and worked so hard.

Lots of talk about how nurses are needed but haven’t seen numbers.

The overworked part varies depending on the department and area they live/work.

Some are burning the candle at both ends others have fairly laid back positions. The term nurse covers a wide variety of positions and responsibilities

[sns2]

Two weeks ago, I had went to bed early and was awakened by a phone call from the wife of a dear friend of 40 years. He had retired a few years ago and was looking forward to many years with his wife. He collapsed that morning. He lived in Devon. Ambulance took him to Leduc. Leduc looked at him and sent him straight to U of A. I arrived in time to hold his hand his hand for his last few hours before he slipped into eternity. The staff in that ICU, and in particular the male nurse assigned to my friend’s care was nothing short of an angel in disguise. The care, compassion, and clarity of communication in life’s most difficult situation was so appreciated.

As for their wages, that’s not my fight, but I sure as heck don’t begrudge them whatever they make.

We will all need them at some point.

All of us.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by sns2

Two weeks ago, I had went to bed early and was awakened by a phone call from the wife of a dear friend of 40 years. He had retired a few years ago and was looking forward to many years with his wife. He collapsed that morning. He lived in Devon. Ambulance took him to Leduc. Leduc looked at him and sent him straight to U of A. I arrived in time to hold his hand his hand for his last few hours before he slipped into eternity. The staff in that ICU, and in particular the male nurse assigned to my friend’s care was nothing short of an angel in disguise. The care, compassion, and clarity of communication in life’s most difficult situation was so appreciated.

As for their wages, that’s not my fight, but I sure as heck don’t begrudge them whatever they make.

We will all need them at some point.

All of us.

We buried a dear friend of mine a week ago, he was well cared for too. These people are indeed angels in disguise.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

We buried a dear friend of mine a week ago, he was well cared for too. These people are indeed angels in disguise.

I lost a friend to cancer two years ago, his care was atrocious. I remember his daughter going to the desk asking for help with medication because his pain was so bad. I watched her ask, eleven blank faces sitting at desks looking at her, no one even answered, it was terrible. His sister a retired nurse had to go out and speak with them. Next day an aid came in and announced that it was time for a bath, he was unconscious. The sister told the aid to take a hike, she checked her chart again, giggled and said wrong bed. It truly was a terrible death.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I lost a friend to cancer two years ago, his care was atrocious. I remember his daughter going to the desk asking for help with medication because his pain was so bad. I watched her ask, eleven blank faces sitting at desks looking at her, no one even answered, it was terrible. His sister a retired nurse had to go out and speak with them. Next day an aid came in and announced that it was time for a bath, he was unconscious. The sister told the aid to take a hike, she checked her chart again, giggled and said wrong bed. It truly was a terrible death.

I’ve lived in this city my whole life so have a fairly large circle. I believe I could accurately reflect the majority of hospital users’ experiences. It is hell and war to get admitted. Once you are admitted, the care is pretty darn good.

Piker, I am sorry anyone has to go through what your friend did.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

25% wage increase in one year...I may apply Monday. I'm in the wrong industry

No doubt.

[roughneckin]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

25% wage increase in one year...I may apply Monday. I'm in the wrong industry

It’s a negotiation process. Not really hard to understand.

I’ve left roles and moved to other companies for a 100% increase in wages. These folks can’t. Keeping good people is hard and we’ve seen a lot leave lately.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

So, quit hiring contract nurses altogether. Offer them a regular position where the voids exist. At some point they would rather work at a great paying job than not pay their rent.

Absolutely. Tons of nurses quit their regular lines has they could make a lot more working out of private agencies. The one fly in the ointment will be some ER's, and even hospitals, in smaller areas may need to be closed due to lack of staff.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by sns2

My daughter just applied to a nursing faculty yesterday

Smart move for her. She'll never be out of work. Can work anywhere she chooses in the world, and can easily be part of the "freedom 55" club with a life time pension.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by schleprock

My late sister was a nurse. She refused to take a fulltime position because there was way more money to be made being part time and cashing in on the overtime opportunities. If the government could get the nurses to take fulltime positions and get rid of the overtime scam, a lot of money would be saved.

You hit the nail on the head.