Norinco M305

[ShawnM]

Just bought one of these last night and I have to say that I am wildly impressed with the quality and finish of the rifle. I was prepared for the worst when I asked to see it; the interweb is FULL of Norinco bashers and I had read many threads on how ugly/bad/dangerous/smelly they are.

First impression is that it got the same treatment as my Simonov SKS (which has now grown dear to my heart, despite my every effort to hate it). It was literaly DIPPED in heavy grease. Like a thick film on every surface of the rifle. They had three little cloth bags tied to the rifle and I thought, oh more screws/whatever? So I squeezed one out of curiousity and got a stomach turning gush of more grease from it...

Still I thought there could be a diamond in all that rough so I took it home. $450 for a M14 clone, it was at least worth some time to clean it up and then decide if I would take it back. After about an hour's cleaning I got to the point where I could touch the exterior of the rifle without getting slimed. It was definitely worth the effort to clean this rifle up because it actually is a looker. I had read stories about misaligned barrels, bent sights, misshapen flash suppressors, large pieces missing from the stocks, etc. But apparently the short fellas at Norinco have learned to get it right because this one is spot on.

The barrel, action, trigger guard, etc. have a very appealing bead-blasted finish. All the metal parts mate tightly with each other and also to the stock. The stock is most certainly plastic, but not in a way that makes me think it was from recycled pop bottles like the Thompson Center Fire Ventures do. It does not sound hollow, it does not rattle, there are no hangers from the injection process, the surface and texture are very smooth and it is a very good replica of SOI M14s I have seen.

The action is tight, and there is no rattle to it at all. The magazine is snug and mates very well to the bottom metal. It is very tight right now, as can be expected with a brand new rifle, but not so that it is near impossible to remove. I haven't field stripped it yet to clean it up and oil it down but the metal is very nice, the machining on it was pretty good quality. There are no tool marks on any visible surface and even with the gobs of grease everywhere the action cycles pretty smoothly. It cycled my snap caps very successfully and after I've scrubbed and lightly oiled it I anticipate that will improve greatly.

Overall this rifle stands on its own VERY well. I'll need to finish cleaning it up and find a pic rail for it so I can take it to the range for some accuracy tests. However astheticly and from what I can measure without actually shooting the rifle I'd say it's easily a 8/10. Would this rifle compare favorably against an authentic Springfield M14? Uh, no.. that's not even possible. Not the same ballpark that's for sure. I've had the opportunity to handle surplus M14s, brand new M14s, and now the Norinco knock offs and I'd definitely say that a person shouldn't hesitate to buy the Norinco if they can't/won't spend the $3000.00 or more on the authentics.

I'm still slightly on the fence about it but I'd say this could be the start of a beautiful friendship

[seabass23]

You got me interested. Where'd you find it?

[ShawnM]

Originally Posted by seabass23

You got me interested. Where'd you find it?

Shooters Edge if you can believe it. I bought one of the two they had brought in. The other was still on display when I left but someone was asking about it.

[Grizzly Adams]

About as close to the real thing as you're going to get on a budget and best of all, available and non-restricted.

Grizz

[ShawnM]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

About as close to the real thing as you're going to get on a budget and best of all, available and non-restricted.

Grizz

There is a gob of aftermarket parts for them too that can get you pretty close to the real thing in terms of quality. Doubt I'll change much other than get a rail, maybe replace the trigger and some of the guts.

[colin455]

Slip over to Gunnutz and check it out. There is a section devoted to the M14 and it's clones. GREAT info. What to check, what to replace, oiling and greasing points. All factual and non-bashing. Some true guru's of the M14 over there. I had one and avidly watched "Hungry's" videos on what to go through.
I enjoyed mine a ton. Had a Polytech version.
Enjoy yours.

[TomCanuck]

I bought one a few months back for a hoot from Canada Ammo. Only issues I have is the hold open fails when I remove the mag, and the safety is next to impossible to engage. Probably just need to tweak the action a bit.

For $450 bucks, can't complain I guess. It seems a lot of guys end up with a rifle that consists of the forged Norinco reciever with everything else after market USGI parts, but it's not cheap to do that.

[ShawnM]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

I bought one a few months back for a hoot from Canada Ammo. Only issues I have is the hold open fails when I remove the mag, and the safety is next to impossible to engage. Probably just need to tweak the action a bit.

For $450 bucks, can't complain I guess. It seems a lot of guys end up with a rifle that consists of the forged Norinco reciever with everything else after market USGI parts, but it's not cheap to do that.

Not cheap or easy. And the end results aren't all that attractive IMO. The USGI stocks have holes for the fire selector that need filling, holes that aren't used on the Norinco metal, etc.

Changing the interior components, etc. is one thing but I wouldn't want to carry around something that looks completely patchwork.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by ShawnM

Not cheap or easy. And the end results aren't all that attractive IMO. The USGI stocks have holes for the fire selector that need filling, holes that aren't used on the Norinco metal, etc.

Changing the interior components, etc. is one thing but I wouldn't want to carry around something that looks completely patchwork.

yup, I've got a TRG 22, if I want to make small groups. My Norinco shorty, or for that matter an M1A in match configuration will never come close to the Sako for accuracy. Plenty of fun using the 305's battle sights as is though. I also take pleasure in owning any firearm the NDP would classify as, "BAD AND SCARY"!

[ShawnM]

Cleaned her up last night and this rifle is (very) surprisingly a good looker! Upon close inspection I think the front sight may be very slightly canted to the left. Which won't be an issue since I ordered the aluminum rail system from M14.ca. It looks pretty promising. I have rings and a viper PST scope set aside for this bad boy already. As soon as I get the rail the rear sights come off, the pic goes on. I'll probably even remove the front sight as well since I won't be using it. Save a few ounces.

[AbAngler]

I really enjoy my shorty. Brake cleaner really helps with initial cleaning and cheap lithium grease is all you need for lube other then a little light oil on the trigger. A new spring guide is a good first step to decent accuracy. I was getting touching holes at 50 yards with crappy Norinco ammo, which was quite the pleasant surprise. Apparently, I got lucky, but a couple other guys I know had all sorts of issues with the recent batch.

Down the road, I'd like to have a nice wood stock and possibly new rear sights. Don't think I'll scope it. Lots of fun for the price!

PS Let us know how it shoots!

[ShawnM]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

I really enjoy my shorty. Brake cleaner really helps with initial cleaning and cheap lithium grease is all you need for lube other then a little light oil on the trigger. A new spring guide is a good first step to decent accuracy. I was getting touching holes at 50 yards with crappy Norinco ammo, which was quite the pleasant surprise. Apparently, I got lucky, but a couple other guys I know had all sorts of issues with the recent batch.

Down the road, I'd like to have a nice wood stock and possibly new rear sights. Don't think I'll scope it. Lots of fun for the price!

PS Let us know how it shoots!

I've heard the shorty's are having troubles lately. On CGN some fella had all kinds of issues with his new shorty.

[AbAngler]

I think that while there are can and have been some screw ups from the factory, lots of issues are due to not doing the initial dis-assembly, thorough cleaning and re-assembly procedures correctly. Theres alot to these rifles and it can be a bit intimidating when you have a bench full of parts. I could be wrong though.

I'm very happy with mine. The only problem I've had is a sticky safety and hard to adjust rear sight. Accuracy is way above what I was expecting for a Chinese made battle rifle, so I don't want to mess with it too much.

[michaelmicallef]

I called them yesterday looking for one for my son. You beat me to it. Congrats, they'll be more around sooner or later.I,ll have to keep my eyes open for one. Let us know how it shoots.

[Redneck Hippy]

thanks for the initial review... been looking online at these humming and hawing
let us know how the range sessions go.
as if I need an excuse to buy another gun

[Jay T]

Don't buy one buy two!!! these rifles are excellent for the cost and like someone suggested watch "hungry's" video on Gunputz. I had 2 of these rifles both Hungrified and they shot better than I could ever shoot them. Better than the video is actually attending one of Hungry's clinics. he usually makes a western swing every year. If you don't attend one "your dick might fall off!!!"

[catnthehat]

Hungry did a clinic up here last summer that was very well attended, from what I was told it was a fantastic time!
Cat

[ShawnM]

Haven't had a chance to do much more than clean the rifle exterior at this point. Wasn't able to remove the trigger group for some reason. Hungry's vids will surely be a source of help.

[Ziospawn]

I was just in leo's in olds this morning and i saw that they will be getting in the m305 soon if anyone is looking.

[ShawnM]

Got my pic rail last night from M14.ca and mounted it with my Vortex 1-4x24 PST scope. Looks pretty slick although it seems a little misaligned with the barrel. I have to bore sight it still and of course dial it in at the range before I can say for sure. But on looks alone it is a winner

Pictures later tonight when I get home.

[Jay T]

Shwan, take one of the cleaning rods and insert in the hole on the back side of the trigger guard, then use it like a prybar and that will open the trigger guard and you should be able to wiggle the trigger mech out. Hungry taught me that little trick.

[Turtlewolf]

The Springfield M1A only beats the Norinco M305 (a good hand picked one, some do have issues) with the finnish. In reality the yankee rifle uses casting for the reciever and almost any part that an M14/M1A can use the M305 can use as well, most of the time with little or no fitting.
The forged recievers are considered some of the best for custom builds although I have seen one that was busted in the front where the barrel threaded in right out of the box so it does pay to inspect your new purchase very well.

[ShawnM]

Originally Posted by Jay T

Shwan, take one of the cleaning rods and insert in the hole on the back side of the trigger guard, then use it like a prybar and that will open the trigger guard and you should be able to wiggle the trigger mech out. Hungry taught me that little trick.

Actually I had no issues mobilizing the trigger guard and swinging it forward so I should have been able to remove the trigger group. I noticed on one of Hungry's threads he points out a pin that sometimes becomes mobile and prevents the trigger guard from opening enough. The GI tool that comes in the butt stock has a pretty solid pin for opening the trigger guard so that's what I used.

[DuctapedGopher]

Great now I am getting the bug ... This sort of stuff is catchy.

[ShawnM]

Took my M305 to the range yesterday and have some feedback on it based on use now:

- Action worked near flawlessly. The only hiccup was when the fingers from my left hand got in the way of the slide when I charged it. Didn't take much to prevent the action from locking closed actually; first round was a failure to fire.
- The front end jumps like mad when I fire. A .308 isn't exactly a punishing rifle and with a 20" barrel even less so but the fore end of the stock is very slippery and difficult to maintain control of during firing. Going to have to do something about that.
- Put a leather cheek pad on and it lined me up nicely with the center of the scope. Going to drop down a ring size though so I'll have a little tighter of a cheek weld. Got it off eBay and even though it smells VERY strongly of new leather it feels really good. Will send the vendor info for interested parties.
- 50yd accuracy was amazing using hand loads. Put five from a hot barrel into a penny sized group using the Berger moly VLDs. Groups were much tighter using low end hand loads straight from the manuals than they were using OTC Hornady Match 168gr.
- Chews the brass up pretty good, which I consider par for the course with a semi-auto. The harder Imperial fared much better than the softer Hornady brass. Most of the brass was ruined but I may get a second load out of some of it.
- No rattle, unexpected noise, no stock shifting or etc. Pretty damned impressed with it actually. I expected some clanking or pinging but zero extra noises.
- I cleaned this puppy up using a brush to get to every nook and cranny I could find and it's still bleeding grease. Still amazed at how greasy it came from the manufacturer.
- My impression is that if I wasn't using a 1-4x24 scope on it I may have gotten more accuracy than I did.
- Trigger is absolute garbage. No other way to tell it. Going to have to replace the trigger group on it in short order. Worst trigger I've ever felt on any gun. My SKS has a better trigger than this M305.

Despite the trigger and the stock I'm saying this is still a 7/10 rifle. Fun to shoot, incredible accuracy given it's price point and how crappy the trigger is.

[timsesink]

I was out shooting one that was slightly customized with a friend and cannot wait to get one myself!

[catnthehat]

I set up 5 full length pinned mags for a friend the other night.
He wanted the full length mags ( pinned of course) becuase
A: They suit the traditional lines of the rifle and
B: he was having problems detaching the 5 round mag.

The longer mags are by Check-mate, and would not lach - a little filining and all fit well.
I found that if rolled the short mag forward like the longer ones, instead of the tendincey to try and pull straight out, it wokred bettter.
I find the big and clunky myself, but I would love to own one for national course matches- the problem , of course, is there are no NCSR matchs up here!!
Cat

[ShawnM]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I set up 5 full length pinned mags for a friend the other night.
He wanted the full length mags ( pinned of course) becuase
A: They suit the traditional lines of the rifle and
B: he was having problems detaching the 5 round mag.

The longer mags are by Check-mate, and would not lach - a little filining and all fit well.
I found that if rolled the short mag forward like the longer ones, instead of the tendincey to try and pull straight out, it wokred bettter.
I find the big and clunky myself, but I would love to own one for national course matches- the problem , of course, is there are no NCSR matchs up here!!
Cat

What are NCSR shoots like? Duplicating the "Dedicated Marksman" role? It could be interesting to try out

I find the five round mags slightly annoying myself. Hard to grab a hold of them and roll them forward like you say.

Any thoughts on the trigger? Do you know any way to clean up the factory one so it's livable?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by ShawnM

What are NCSR shoots like? Duplicating the "Dedicated Marksman" role? It could be interesting to try out

I find the five round mags slightly annoying myself. Hard to grab a hold of them and roll them forward like you say.

Any thoughts on the trigger? Do you know any way to clean up the factory one so it's livable?

I'm sure that I can get sme tips on tning them from my friend, he took Hungry's seminar , and there are also a coule of ex-U.S. servicemen up here, one of which is very good with the M14.
As far as nationa course rifle course of fire goes, it's basically prone , kneeling and standing 10 shot strings from 200 to 600 yards with servce rifles with a posible of 800-80X aggregate.
I think that the AR type rifles have pretty much pushed the Garands, etc , right ut of the field however.

In the service rifle matches I have shot in Canada and alberta, we have shot pre-1960 and post 1960 era rifles IIRC, in Alberta.
many years ago th FN and te Enfield were used in service rifle matches I attended in Ottawa.....

Cat

[depopulator]

So what are the pro's and con's between the 18.5" shortie or full length (22 or 24" ?) barreled M305?