What do you do with a rifle you just can’t get to group?

[HyperMOA]

So I have an old Alpine rifle in 7mm Rem mag. I had Dean2 borescope it and it looked good but had some copper fouling that I hadn’t fully cleaned. We also found pressure points on the stock. I relieved the barrel channel in the stock and bedded it into the stock. I replaced the scope and all rings are tight and mounted properly. The barrel was cleaned thoroughly.

I cannot get this rifle to group better than 3-4” groups. I have even had groups shooting wild flyers into 16” groups. Multiple flyers not one. Shooting from a leadsled. Not tied into it, just resting on it.

I am using 162 grain projectiles. I even did a load with 140 grain bullets seeing if possibly the 162 grain bullets weren’t stabilizing. The 140 grain bullets didn’t group any better. I am also using reloader 22.

I load in full grains and try to find a grain that groups tighter. Then I try half grains and chase from there trying to find a good load. Its how I have built loads for my other rifles.

What have you guys done with stubborn rifles in the past?
What am I doing wrong?
What should I try?

[fps plus]

If you have done the bedding , checked screws ,tried a different scope , glass bedded tried a few different loads , save yourself frustration and money and get a different rifle . Some guns will just not shoot !!!!

[Coiloil37]

If it were mine I would try many different powders, bullets, seating depths, primers until I found something it liked. One powder and two bullets isn’t enough.

I had a .308 once that I tried 8-10 powders and 10+ different bullets before I found one load it would shoot.

[Demonical]

^ Amen.

I bought some 165gr .308cal Nosler Ballistics Tips for my .30-06, cuz supposedly they are great. But I couldn't get those to shoot, using multiple powders.

Finally went back to 165gr plain-Jane Hornady BTSPs and immediately had excellent accuracy again... (those Hornadys always seem to shoot well).

[ctd]

My 7 rem would tumble 150gr at 100meters, 165gr would shoot good to about 150 meters but would start to tumble past that.
I had good accuracy with 175 and 185grs out of mine.
It took some.time and frustration. But it loved the heavier gr bullets.

[brewster29]

My go to on fussy rifles is to try Barnes TSX or TTSX. Start with the flat base and if they work ok then try boat tail. If you've taken care of loose mounts, solid dry bedding, action screw torque, barrel float, barrel crown and any other of the usual suspects then it's worth the cost to try some 150's. If they won't group acceptably the rifle needs to find another home.

[deerfarmer]

Sell it!

[fps plus]

I had a nice rifle that I just couldn’t get to shoot . Tried 3 or4 different bedding methods, spent hundreds of $ on different powders and bullets , different scopes . I would have been money ahead to get rid of it early which I eventually did

[catnthehat]

If things are going like that I check the headspace and cases, and after ruling out all posibilities , being a Mauser action, I would send it to a trustrd gunsmith to rebarrel- in this case it would be fps plus!
Cat

[fishnguy]

^ He is suggesting to get rid of it though

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

^ He is suggesting to get rid of it though

If the rifle has a good stock and the '98 action is solid, rebarreling is an option.
Selling It to someone would not sit well with me unless i gave full disclosure on how bad it shot.
Cat

[fishnguy]

^ For sure, selling without the full disclosure is no bueno.

[Cooeylover]

Bought a second hand .308 win rifle once and it grouped 3”. Bedded the action, then it grouped 12”, almost wrapped it around a fence post right there at the range. Tried powders, bullets, loads, I was convinced it was junk.
Then…….
I found the rear scope mount was wrong. It lived it’s life that way before I bought it. I know this because of the witness marks it left on the action.
I bought the CORRECT scope mounts and now it groups sub moa all day long with a simple Speer 165 grain bullet and BLC2.
Moral of the story, don’t give up, but don’t go dumping a bunch of cash in it unless it’s sentimental.

[duceman]

junk the lead sled for starters. proper rear bag and front rest.
try a reduced load using h4895, and 140's. see if shooting something that doesn't kick the $%&%$ out of you all of a sudden gets you some groups...........

[bezzola]

I had a sako 7mm that would not group tried everything so i gave it to my nephew.
Now my weatherby 300 tak driver from sand bags free hand and even from my lead sled

[spoiledsaskhunter]

Originally Posted by duceman

junk the lead sled for starters. proper rear bag and front rest.
try a reduced load using h4895, and 140's. see if shooting something that doesn't kick the $%&%$ out of you all of a sudden gets you some groups...........

yup

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Selling It to someone would not sit well with me unless i gave full disclosure on how bad it shot.
Cat

That's what I kept thinking with every comment I read saying 'sell it".

No way would I sell without explaining why. And then you probably can't sell it.

[pikergolf]

If it shoots that bad I would suspect you are getting impingement at the neck bullet junction. Either cases to long or the case is contacting a carbon ring and the neck is being squeezed to various inconsistent degrees. Just a guess.

[Pathfinder76]

I’d swap scopes and then give it another go.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

I’d swap scopes and then give it another go.

Yup, first thing I usually do is check the bases and swap the scope out for the scooe I use testing .
When a rifle won't shoot various bullets and powder charges, it is normally sonething mechanical that is the problem.
Cat

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by duceman

junk the lead sled for starters. proper rear bag and front rest.
try a reduced load using h4895, and 140's. see if shooting something that doesn't kick the $%&%$ out of you all of a sudden gets you some groups...........

I group fine with my other lighter 7mm RM, and my .338 win mag using 225 grain bullets. After that, a 7mm mag with 140 grain bullets is like a kitten.

Any reason why I should junk the lead sled if I use it only as a rest?

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Cooeylover

Bought a second hand .308 win rifle once and it grouped 3”. Bedded the action, then it grouped 12”, almost wrapped it around a fence post right there at the range. Tried powders, bullets, loads, I was convinced it was junk.
Then…….
I found the rear scope mount was wrong. It lived it’s life that way before I bought it. I know this because of the witness marks it left on the action.
I bought the CORRECT scope mounts and now it groups sub moa all day long with a simple Speer 165 grain bullet and BLC2.
Moral of the story, don’t give up, but don’t go dumping a bunch of cash in it unless it’s sentimental.

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Yup, first thing I usually do is check the bases and swap the scope out for the scooe I use testing .
When a rifle won't shoot various bullets and powder charges, it is normally sonething mechanical that is the problem.
Cat

It is a third scope on this rifle. I don’t think i have checked the bases other than to ensure they are torqued. The cost of some modern rings and bases may be worth it.

Won’t sell it. It was a rifle given to me by a buddies dad after a house fire. It isn’t sentimental, but it is. The amount of work I’ve put into it now, I just want it to shoot.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

If it were mine I would try many different powders, bullets, seating depths, primers until I found something it liked. One powder and two bullets isn’t enough.

I had a .308 once that I tried 8-10 powders and 10+ different bullets before I found one load it would shoot.

You can’t find 10+ powders and bullets let alone the primers to do that these days. 😀

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

If it shoots that bad I would suspect you are getting impingement at the neck bullet junction. Either cases to long or the case is contacting a carbon ring and the neck is being squeezed to various inconsistent degrees. Just a guess.

Can you tell me more? Say that again like you are explaining it to somebody who knows nothing; because you are. How would I check for this? Cases get trimmed each load. (If required)

[GrandSlam]

Have you tried any factory ammo in it?

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

You can’t find 10+ powders and bullets let alone the primers to do that these days. 😀

Maybe you can’t. Some of us are stocked up. Trust me, this isn’t the first and won’t be the last shortage.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Can you tell me more? Say that again like you are explaining it to somebody who knows nothing; because you are. How would I check for this? Cases get trimmed each load. (If required)

This thread will give you more information than I type out lol.

I had a Savage go south once, I had about 600 rounds on it and out of the blue it started spitting shots all over the place. I had never heard of a carbon ring, but as it turns out it was my problem.

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...is-it.3912845/

[3blade]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

It is a third scope on this rifle. I don’t think i have checked the bases other than to ensure they are torqued. The cost of some modern rings and bases may be worth it.

Won’t sell it. It was a rifle given to me by a buddies dad after a house fire. It isn’t sentimental, but it is. The amount of work I’ve put into it now, I just want it to shoot.

I’d agree with that, this definitely has the look of something mechanical. I had a similar experience and the scope was sliding just a tiny bit in the rings. Not enough to look funny, but enough to move poi around. And do check headspace if you haven’t already.

After that…h1000 and ttsx or partitions.

After that I’d probably put it away for a year to avoid throwing it in the river.

[elkhunter11]

After using actual copper solvents, to remove all copper fouling, and makinf sure there is no carbon buildup, I deal with bedding. Then I try multiple bullets, with multiple powders. If still getting nowhere, I change the scope. I use a proper rest and bags, on a solid bench for all shooting. My last resort, is to rebarrel, if the rest of the rifle is worth the cost to me.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

This thread will give you more information than I type out lol.

I had a Savage go south once, I had about 600 rounds on it and out of the blue it started spitting shots all over the place. I had never heard of a carbon ring, but as it turns out it was my problem.

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...is-it.3912845/

I have seen carbon rings do that, but the barrel was scoped and they would have seen if there was enough of a carbon build up to cause that
Cat