Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Fishing Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 05-25-2017, 09:09 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 198
Default explanation

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterninja View Post
....The Stickle backs became so thick that they depleted the oxygen in the lake. I remember drilling holes in the ice there and as much Stickles came out of the hole as water. .... I have since learned a little about Sticklebacks and they are as bad as perch for taking over small lakes and depleteing it of oxygen
^This is wrong.

Winterkill occurs when fish suffocate from lack of dissolved oxygen. Trace amounts of dissolved oxygen (measured in parts per million, ppm)
are required by fish and all other forms of aquatic life. Winterkill occurs during especially long, harsh winters and is worse in winters with abundant or
early snowfall. Early ice-on and late ice-out dates also increase the winterkill potential.

When snow and ice cover a lake, they limit the sunlight reaching aquatic plants. The plants then cut back on the amount of oxygen they produce. If vegetation dies from lack of sunlight, the plants start to decompose, which uses oxygen dissolved in the water. When oxygen depletion becomes severe enough, fish die. Shallow lakes with excess amounts of aquatic vegetation and mucky bottoms are prone to this problem.

Source:
http://www.aquaticnuisanceplantcontr...20Sheet_1_.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-25-2017, 09:49 AM
Talking moose's Avatar
Talking moose Talking moose is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,521
Default

Correct....^
Sticklebacks are just another food source for predatory fish. When you find a high concentration of sticklebacks in a lake, it is an indicator that the lake recently winterkilled or has a lack of predatory fish for some reason. They don't "take over". When the predatory fish die from winter kill, the sticklebacks thrive because they require very little oxygen. The reason you will never see bigger lakes like cold and slave lake over run with sticklebacks. Where as smaller slough like lakes susceptible to winter kill.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-25-2017, 10:23 AM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 7,350
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
^This is wrong.

Winterkill occurs when fish suffocate from lack of dissolved oxygen. Trace amounts of dissolved oxygen (measured in parts per million, ppm)
are required by fish and all other forms of aquatic life. Winterkill occurs during especially long, harsh winters and is worse in winters with abundant or
early snowfall. Early ice-on and late ice-out dates also increase the winterkill potential.

When snow and ice cover a lake, they limit the sunlight reaching aquatic plants. The plants then cut back on the amount of oxygen they produce. If vegetation dies from lack of sunlight, the plants start to decompose, which uses oxygen dissolved in the water. When oxygen depletion becomes severe enough, fish die. Shallow lakes with excess amounts of aquatic vegetation and mucky bottoms are prone to this problem.

Source:
http://www.aquaticnuisanceplantcontr...20Sheet_1_.pdf
Winner winner.
__________________
.
eat a snickers


made in Alberta__ born n raised.


FS-Tinfool hats by the roll.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-25-2017, 10:24 AM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 7,350
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
Correct....^
Sticklebacks are just another food source for predatory fish. When you find a high concentration of sticklebacks in a lake, it is an indicator that the lake recently winterkilled or has a lack of predatory fish for some reason. They don't "take over". When the predatory fish die from winter kill, the sticklebacks thrive because they require very little oxygen. The reason you will never see bigger lakes like cold and slave lake over run with sticklebacks. Where as smaller slough like lakes susceptible to winter kill.
Winner
__________________
.
eat a snickers


made in Alberta__ born n raised.


FS-Tinfool hats by the roll.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-25-2017, 11:15 AM
waterninja waterninja is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
^This is wrong.

Winterkill occurs when fish suffocate from lack of dissolved oxygen. Trace amounts of dissolved oxygen (measured in parts per million, ppm)
are required by fish and all other forms of aquatic life. Winterkill occurs during especially long, harsh winters and is worse in winters with abundant or
early snowfall. Early ice-on and late ice-out dates also increase the winterkill potential.

When snow and ice cover a lake, they limit the sunlight reaching aquatic plants. The plants then cut back on the amount of oxygen they produce. If vegetation dies from lack of sunlight, the plants start to decompose, which uses oxygen dissolved in the water. When oxygen depletion becomes severe enough, fish die. Shallow lakes with excess amounts of aquatic vegetation and mucky bottoms are prone to this problem.

Source:
http://www.aquaticnuisanceplantcontr...20Sheet_1_.pdf
Yes, I think that most people know about the weeds cosumption of oxygen when they decompose. It's a good pointh and is the main reason a pond or small lake will winterkill over a winter. There are also summer kills that can happen because of Algae blooms. I never once said Sticklebacks are the main or only reason a lake will winter kill, but they can become a huge problem when they are overpopulated. They also compete with trout for food. At least that is what a fish biologist that works for the AB govt. told me.
Perch can also be a big problem. Cormorants, cranes, pelicans,etc. can also be a problem for perch. Lots of other factors and conditions can also effect the health/ survival rate of Trout.

My main point for bringing up Sticklebacks is that since the pond has no trout anyways, this would be a good time to clean it up properly and then restock it with fresh healthy trout.
Heck that would be a perfect small pond to aerate, but I doubt the City would allow that.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-25-2017, 11:40 AM
Darren N's Avatar
Darren N Darren N is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 859
Default

Well at the end of the day I know more about sticklebacks then a few days ago. I hope they do stock Hermitage again and if they do let me know if you can remember since some of the websites seem off for information. I agree its nice and central - good access - more than just one or two good fishing spots from shore and its a nice place for the kids to learn as well.
__________________
If there is fishing in heaven, I hope I don't catch one on every cast.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-25-2017, 04:00 PM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
Correct....^
Sticklebacks are just another food source for predatory fish. When you find a high concentration of sticklebacks in a lake, it is an indicator that the lake recently winterkilled or has a lack of predatory fish for some reason. They don't "take over". When the predatory fish die from winter kill, the sticklebacks thrive because they require very little oxygen. The reason you will never see bigger lakes like cold and slave lake over run with sticklebacks. Where as smaller slough like lakes susceptible to winter kill.
Sticklebacks seem to be able to survive just about anything. We had a big puddle in the parking lot at a gas plant I worked at that had them every year. Every year the puddle would be pumped bone dry, then winter would come and if there was any accumulated water in the bottom it would freeze solid. The next spring when the puddle came back there would be more sticklebacks. I don't know if their eggs can survive without water or what?
__________________
If the good lord didnt want me to ride a four wheeler with no shirt on, then how come my nipples grow back after every wipeout?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-25-2017, 04:23 PM
waterninja waterninja is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
Correct....^
Sticklebacks are just another food source for predatory fish. When you find a high concentration of sticklebacks in a lake, it is an indicator that the lake recently winterkilled or has a lack of predatory fish for some reason. They don't "take over". When the predatory fish die from winter kill, the sticklebacks thrive because they require very little oxygen. The reason you will never see bigger lakes like cold and slave lake over run with sticklebacks. Where as smaller slough like lakes susceptible to winter kill.
Call it what you want, but the trout are dead and the Sticklebacks are thick. I call that taking over. The cranes and pelicans are happy though. You'll never eliminate them completly, but a good cleansing might give the pond lots of years before they are this bad again.
I will be doing some more digging as to why exactly they don't want to stock Hermitage. It must have something to do with the NSR being so close. Maybe they are worried about spreading Whirling Disease downstream to Sask. I doubt it, but someone must know.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-25-2017, 05:42 PM
chriscosta's Avatar
chriscosta chriscosta is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: sum beach. somewhere
Posts: 1,801
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterninja View Post
Call it what you want, but the trout are dead and the Sticklebacks are thick. I call that taking over. The cranes and pelicans are happy though. You'll never eliminate them completly, but a good cleansing might give the pond lots of years before they are this bad again.
I will be doing some more digging as to why exactly they don't want to stock Hermitage. It must have something to do with the NSR being so close. Maybe they are worried about spreading Whirling Disease downstream to Sask. I doubt it, but someone must know.
Yup they are worried the fish can end up in the nsr like if the place flooded like a few years ago
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-25-2017, 07:31 PM
RavYak's Avatar
RavYak RavYak is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: West Edmonton
Posts: 5,174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterninja View Post
Call it what you want, but the trout are dead and the Sticklebacks are thick. I call that taking over. The cranes and pelicans are happy though. You'll never eliminate them completly, but a good cleansing might give the pond lots of years before they are this bad again.
I will be doing some more digging as to why exactly they don't want to stock Hermitage. It must have something to do with the NSR being so close. Maybe they are worried about spreading Whirling Disease downstream to Sask. I doubt it, but someone must know.
Yes there was a video with Todd Zimmerling(ACA president) that I believe I saw on Facebook. In it he was saying that whirling disease was going to have a couple immediate impacts on stocking this year for 2 reasons.

1) Some hatcheries are thought to be infected or they aren't sure if they are infected so they are not using their fish. This means they will be stocking fewer fish this year.

2) Waterbodies that have the ability to allow stocked fish to escape into river systems etc will not be stocked until I believe they can confirm they are free of whirling disease and that the fish being stocked do not have the disease. I believe Hermitage falls into this category because of the possibility of flooding.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 05-25-2017, 10:45 PM
waterninja waterninja is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak View Post
Yes there was a video with Todd Zimmerling(ACA president) that I believe I saw on Facebook. In it he was saying that whirling disease was going to have a couple immediate impacts on stocking this year for 2 reasons.

1) Some hatcheries are thought to be infected or they aren't sure if they are infected so they are not using their fish. This means they will be stocking fewer fish this year.

2) Waterbodies that have the ability to allow stocked fish to escape into river systems etc will not be stocked until I believe they can confirm they are free of whirling disease and that the fish being stocked do not have the disease. I believe Hermitage falls into this category because of the possibility of flooding.
Not just flooding. Hermitgage has a slow but steady stream of runoff flowing into the NSR.
Thats why I vote for cleaning out the main pond and restocking it fresh. One of the most popular and accessible trout pounds in alberta deserves some attention.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 05-26-2017, 12:26 AM
410 410 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 27
Default

Ninja,
Why do your posts always go sideways.....?
It's cause you are always looking for loopholes and making excuses.
Learn how to be a sportsman.
Many posts over the past you have no clue.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 05-28-2017, 08:18 AM
waterninja waterninja is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 410 View Post
Ninja,
Why do your posts always go sideways.....?
It's cause you are always looking for loopholes and making excuses.
Learn how to be a sportsman.
Many posts over the past you have no clue.
Or perhaps I am looking too hard for answers, and am willing to debate when something doesn't make sense. Also, a few members that may hold a grudge for some percieved slight in the past like to stir chit up sometimes. Like perhaps someone with a whole 23 posts trying to give us a history lesson.
Loopholes and excuses? About trying to find out if a pond is stocked or not? Keep trying 410. Another useless post with nothing positive or informative to add to the thread.
That's the nice thing about AO. If you don't have a clue, you can get info. (right or wrong) and opinions from those who do. There is always new things to learn and different ways of looking at things. Some people just never get that i suppose.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05-28-2017, 08:32 AM
Mr Flyguy Mr Flyguy is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,574
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterninja View Post
That's the nice thing about AO. If you don't have a clue, you can get info. (right or wrong) and opinions from those who do. There is always new things to learn and different ways of looking at things. Some people just never get that i suppose.
I agree. Some of the comments, opinions are BS, others, especially mine, are usually right on.

Anyway, related to the original thread, is the Fort Pond going to be stocked this year, and if not, why not?
__________________
I fish, therefore I am.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-28-2017, 09:00 AM
waterninja waterninja is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy View Post
I agree. Some of the comments, opinions are BS, others, especially mine, are usually right on.

Anyway, related to the original thread, is the Fort Pond going to be stocked this year, and if not, why not?
According to ACA stocking report, Ft Sask pond is scheduled to be stocked in June, pending govt. assesment and approval (whatever that means). Hope fully they will stock it. That is another popular pond.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 05-29-2017, 12:49 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterninja View Post
Yes, I think that most people know about the weeds cosumption of oxygen when they decompose. It's a good pointh and is the main reason a pond or small lake will winterkill over a winter. There are also summer kills that can happen because of Algae blooms. I never once said Sticklebacks are the main or only reason a lake will winter kill, but they can become a huge problem when they are overpopulated. They also compete with trout for food. At least that is what a fish biologist that works for the AB govt. told me.
Perch can also be a big problem. Cormorants, cranes, pelicans,etc. can also be a problem for perch. Lots of other factors and conditions can also effect the health/ survival rate of Trout.

My main point for bringing up Sticklebacks is that since the pond has no trout anyways, this would be a good time to clean it up properly and then restock it with fresh healthy trout.
Heck that would be a perfect small pond to aerate, but I doubt the City would allow that.
For stocked trout stickleback are a food source not a competitor for resources. They can survive lower O2 levels in water. They also are great for eating mosquitoes in ditches.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05-29-2017, 01:15 PM
Talking moose's Avatar
Talking moose Talking moose is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,521
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
For stocked trout stickleback are a food source not a competitor for resources. They can survive lower O2 levels in water. They also are great for eating mosquitoes in ditches.
Please don't contradict WN. Isn't this a fishing forum? Real anglers know that sticklebacks use up all the oxygen and in turn kill the gamefish. Look what happened to Hasse. (have you even heard of Hasse?)
Just talking smack with you Earnest. No offence.

Last edited by Talking moose; 05-29-2017 at 01:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-29-2017, 01:27 PM
waterninja waterninja is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
Default

Real anglers know that it is a combination of things that can affect a lakes ecosystem. I am surprised you haven't heard of hasse though. It's west of Edm, not far from Star lake. It used to be a popular place to go trout fishing. Might have been before you were old enough to fish maybe.
EDIT.. It occurs to me that since your not from this area, you might not be familar with Hasse. Lot's of ponds and lakes that I am not familar with either. I only mentioned Hasse as it was one example of a lake that they poisoned to get rid of the Stickleback problem.

Last edited by waterninja; 05-29-2017 at 01:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.