To Crossbow or not to crossbow - That is the question!

[209x50]

Originally Posted by grinr

For one thing,there's alot more to bowhunting than just being able to hit a 3" bullseye at 40 yards,things that can't be learned in an hour or two in the backyard.





In terms of why bowhunters have a lengthier season to begin with....the difficulty.It's the very reason why bow seasons are normally lengthier and earlier than general firearms seasons almost everywhere they exist,in order to have a reasonable chance at harvesting less pressured game.Take away the difficulty factor,(by allowing x-bows)and the need for a longer,earlier season is moot.Might as well just have anything goes,any weapon you choose seasons.That's the thing that x-bow toting,wannabe "bowhunters" don't seem to get.....it's supposed to be more difficult.They LOVE the idea of a longer season....sure,who wouldn't....but at the same time,they want it to be easy and be able to cheat with an easier to use weapon.....much the same as in-liners like to cry foul when they are excluded from traditional ML seasons.

Hahahaha!
Good Lord young fella you are so far in over your head on this one I almost cringe for you. Almost... i'll sit here and watch the fun!

It is unfortunate that so much of this discussion centers around how superior vertical bow hunters are to all others. I know a lot of bow hunters and people like grinr in no way represent them. The majority I know bow hunt for their own personal reasons and support all other types of hunting. Most of the ones I know are in the "no" camp on the crossbow issue and I've heard some very civilized and rational explainations that has caused me to rethink my thoughts on crossbows in archery season. I feel sorry for those whose only exposure to bowhunters is in this thread.

I'm guessing the "real" bowhunters really hope some of you would just be quiet.

[RayM77]

Sputnic, you should just put down the bipod or get some shooting sticks if your arm is getting tired holding up that crossbow, thats what i would do. To bad there is no aids like that for bow hunters.

[RayM77]

Sheep hunter and 209, why don't you guys do a test on bows vs crossbows on the outdoor quest? Go out this winter and try some coyote calling and see which tool is more effective. You will have the video proof for everyone to see.

[grinr]

LOL...this iS getting to be fun.I never said that vert bowhunters are superior to all others(even if they are,lol),my point in this entire debate is that x-bows are a superior weapon to any vertical bows with clear and undeniable advantages,and do not belong in bow seasons.If you want to take advantage of the extra opps and lengthier seasons afforded bowhunters,than buy and learn to shoot a bow for Chrissakes,that's all.Nobody is stopping you or trying to exclude anybody from participating,just play by the same rules with the same equipment instead of looking for a shortcut to success and then crying foul when you're not accepted into the fold.Stop trying to redefine what a bow is or is not in order to justify your lack of desire and commitment to becoming proficient with a more challenging weapon and your selfish desire to bastardise the sport of bowhunting in order that you might participate with a more advantageous tool.
It's pretty simple really....if you want take advantage of bow season,buy a bow.
And fwiw,I would gladly revert back to recurves and longbows if it meant preserving the integrity and spirit of bowhunting and bow seasons as they were intended,and doing so put an end to this crossgun foolishness once and for all,in fact,that is most likely the next natural progression in my own personal hunting ambitions.I'm sure some of you are familiar with the theory of the 5 stages of a person's progression as a hunter,yes?Perhaps some of the you wannabe cheaters might some day reach the point in your hunting career where the "How" becomes more important than the "How Big" or the "How Many"?

[HunterDave]

ALBERTA
Crossbows legal for all seasons except archery-only.
http://www.albertaregulations.ca/hun...tml#cross-bows
780-944-0313

BRITISH COLUMBIA
Crossbows legal.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife...g/regulations/
250-356-9717

MANITOBA
Crossbows legal only during rifle and muzzleloader deer seasons.
www.gov.mb.ca/natres/wildlife/index.html
204-945-0135

NEW BRUNSWICK
Crossbows illegal.
www.gov.nb.ca
506-453-2440

NEWFOUNDLAND
Crossbows illegal.
www.env.gov.nl.ca/env/wildlife/default.htm
709-729-2630

NORTHWEST TERRITORIES
Crossbows legal.
http://www.enr.gov.nt.ca/_live/pages...gulations.aspx
867-920-8064

NOVA SCOTIA
Allows the use of crossbows in all hunting situations where conventional bows may be used, except the special open season for bowhunting deer. The crossbow must have a draw weight of 150lbs (68kg) or greater and bolts with heads more than 2.2 cm in diameter. Crossbow hunters must also wear hunter orange or camouflage orange garments.
www.gov.ns.ca/NATR/hunt/regulations/
902-679-6091

ONTARIO
Crossbows legal; Minimum 119 pounds for moose and bear, 99 pounds for deer.
www.mnr.gov.on.ca
800-667-1940

QUEBEC
Crossbows legal for handicapped hunters by special authorizations during bow season.

In 2008, most bow hunting seasons were replaced with crossbow and bow hunting seasons. Please consult the table of hunting seasons to find out these new terms and conditions. This new development does not apply to moose hunting in zones 13, 15, 16, 17 and 22 which have retained exclusive bow hunting seasons, except for certain wildlife sanctuaries, zecs and outfitter establishments with exclusive rights of these zones which had already replaced their bow hunting seasons with crossbow and bow hunting seasons.

Except in zones 17, 22, 23 and 24, hunting with a crossbow is always permitted during a firearm, a shotgun or a muzzle-loading firearm hunting period. In order to hunt with a crossbow, a resident must be the holder of a hunter's certificate bearing code A or B. Despite the information appearing on the back of the hunter's certificate, since 2007 code F no longer allows the holder to hunt with a crossbow.

http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/english/p.../crossbows.asp
418-521-3830

SASKATCHEWAN
Crossbows legal only during muzzleloader season.
http://www.environment.gov.sk.ca/Default.aspx
306-787-7200

YUKON TERRITORIES
Crossbows illegal.
www.environmentyukon.gov.yk.ca/
867-667-5221

[packhuntr]

Dave,,, youve started to ramble again....Just thought it neighborly that someone let you know.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Dave,,, youve started to ramble again....Just thought it neighborly that someone let you know.

Ramble about what?

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by grinr

LOL...this iS getting to be fun.I never said that vert bowhunters are superior to all others(even if they are,lol),my point in this entire debate is that x-bows are a superior weapon to any vertical bows with clear and undeniable advantages,and do not belong in bow seasons.If you want to take advantage of the extra opps and lengthier seasons afforded bowhunters,than buy and learn to shoot a bow for Chrissakes,that's all.Nobody is stopping you or trying to exclude anybody from participating,just play by the same rules with the same equipment instead of looking for a shortcut to success and then crying foul when you're not accepted into the fold.Stop trying to redefine what a bow is or is not in order to justify your lack of desire and commitment to becoming proficient with a more challenging weapon and your selfish desire to bastardise the sport of bowhunting in order that you might participate with a more advantageous tool.
It's pretty simple really....if you want take advantage of bow season,buy a bow.
And fwiw,I would gladly revert back to recurves and longbows if it meant preserving the integrity and spirit of bowhunting and bow seasons as they were intended,and doing so put an end to this crossgun foolishness once and for all,in fact,that is most likely the next natural progression in my own personal hunting ambitions.I'm sure some of you are familiar with the theory of the 5 stages of a person's progression as a hunter,yes?Perhaps some of the you wannabe cheaters might some day reach the point in your hunting career where the "How" becomes more important than the "How Big" or the "How Many"?

X2 and WELL SAID

Just thought you needed some support.

And next time your called a ''superiorist''
or ''Idealist'' or ''purist'' just call them ''lazy'' and that your dad can beat up their dad and their mother wears army boots !!

[madatter]

If all compound bow users were really concerned about "integrity and spirit" they wouldn't be shootin compounds would they?
What a bunch of mumbo jumbo.....bs

[grinr]

LOL...thanks MG,appreciate the support.I was starting to wonder where all the bow support dissapeared to,but I spose after 760 posts this is old horse is near beat to death?A bit surprising the rifle crowd isn't more vocal though considering they stand to lose as much as anybody in tags and hunting days.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

X2 and WELL SAID

Just thought you needed some support.

And next time your called a ''superiorist''
or ''Idealist'' or ''purist'' just call them ''lazy'' and that your dad can beat up their dad and their mother wears army boots !!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by grinr

LOL...thanks MG,appreciate the support.I was starting to wonder where all the bow support dissapeared to,but I spose after 760 posts this is old horse is near beat to death?A bit surprising the rifle crowd isn't more vocal though considering they stand to lose as much as anybody in tags and hunting days.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by madatter

If all compound bow users were really concerned about "integrity and spirit" they wouldn't be shootin compounds would they?
What a bunch of mumbo jumbo.....bs

Talk about b.s. Shoot a bow for a year, hunt one fall, and come back and tell us who's full of sh*t again please.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by grinr

LOL...thanks MG,appreciate the support.I was starting to wonder where all the bow support dissapeared to,but I spose after 760 posts this is old horse is near beat to death?A bit surprising the rifle crowd isn't more vocal though considering they stand to lose as much as anybody in tags and hunting days.

Well...probably a good bunch of them are waiting patiently for the day they can go get their x-bow and get in on the ''puriest'' hunt.

I see no gains for the hunting community as well with this...... but the fact that there would be a nice money grab for the gov with all the extra bow permits they can sell, and all the new draws that you get to pay for, I think your argument may be a lost cause. IMO

And ya...this thread has been pounded to a fine pulp.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by madatter

If all compound bow users were really concerned about "integrity and spirit" they wouldn't be shootin compounds would they?
What a bunch of mumbo jumbo.....bs

Spoken with all of the infinite wisdom of somebody that's never drawn a bow on a deer in his life.
Tell me something,if compounds are so easy to use and essentially no different than x-bows as so many x-bow advocates claim,why is it the hordes of hunters only come to bowhunting when x-bows are legalised?Why aren't they bowhunting already if it's so easy?

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Talk about b.s. Shoot a bow for a year, hunt one fall, and come back and tell us who's full of sh*t again please.

^^^what he said.

[madatter]

And after being in WSS today and playing round with these new hi tech killing machines Im not so sure they are as advantageous as bowhunters make them to be.
Fancy model with scope,quiver,etc...350fps...was a pig,15lbs was what I was told and a lot of it on the front.
Now maybe some hulk hogan type guy is going to hold that up for a while but the average guy just isn't,not without a rest.....and in a lot of situations a rest either isn't practical or can't be used.
Not to mention awkward.....
Oh and a price tag of $900
Average guy isn't going to spend much more than this,if that much.
Advantages seem to be slimmer n slimmer

[madatter]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Talk about b.s. Shoot a bow for a year, hunt one fall, and come back and tell us who's full of sh*t again please.

We weren't talking bout sh...t
Just integrity and spirit....sorta twisted to whatever way you make it to feel good about it!
I'm sure the traditional guys think you are definitely full of something!

[madatter]

Originally Posted by grinr

Spoken with all of the infinite wisdom of somebody that's never drawn a bow on a deer in his life.
Tell me something,if compounds are so easy to use and essentially no different than x-bows as so many x-bow advocates claim,why is it the hordes of hunters only come to bowhunting when x-bows are legalised?Why aren't they bowhunting already if it's so easy?



^^^what he said.

And you could be a 12 year old boy sitting at home getting his kicks off this.....don't know...don't care
This is the net.....if you think you have "infinite wisdom" then I'm really happy for you....even as confused as you are!

[RobinHood]

Madatter, I find it quite amusing for a fellow, who has never expirenced neither a crossbow or a vertical bow how vocal you can be about both. The more I read your posts the more I see that your main concern is that bowhunters lose something, rather than it be about the benefit of our heritage and pass time. Unfortunate.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by madatter

And after being in WSS today and playing round Oh and a price tag of $900
Average guy isn't going to spend much more than this,if that much.
Advantages seem to be slimmer n slimmer

$900??Oh pulllllease,your not gonna play the money card are ya?There's lotsa guys on this forum,hundreds no doubt,that would think nothing of spending 9 bills on just a scope.$900 just about buys you a flagship model bow from any of the Big 4 these days,that's bare bones/no accessories btw.Outdoors-men are just boys with paychecks,$900 is hardly a deterrant from them buying something they want or justify as a "must have" item.

[bb356]

Originally Posted by grinr

LOL...thanks MG,appreciate the support.I was starting to wonder where all the bow support dissapeared to,but I spose after 760 posts this is old horse is near beat to death?A bit surprising the rifle crowd isn't more vocal though considering they stand to lose as much as anybody in tags and hunting days.

im a rifle only hunter ! and voted yes ! a bow is a bow ! a rifle is a firearm ! tell me what i have to lose GRINR?

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by madatter

And after being in WSS today and playing round with these new hi tech killing machines Im not so sure they are as advantageous as bowhunters make them to be.
Fancy model with scope,quiver,etc...350fps...was a pig,15lbs was what I was told and a lot of it on the front.
Now maybe some hulk hogan type guy is going to hold that up for a while but the average guy just isn't,not without a rest.....and in a lot of situations a rest either isn't practical or can't be used.
Not to mention awkward.....
Oh and a price tag of $900
Average guy isn't going to spend much more than this,if that much.
Advantages seem to be slimmer n slimmer

No advantage to an x-bow ? Heavy ? Expensive.
So why the hell go there!!!
Get a compound if they arent any harder to use and join in on the fun!!
What am I missing here

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by bb356

im a rifle only hunter ! and voted yes ! a bow is a bow ! a rifle is a firearm ! tell me what i have to lose GRINR?

Your opportunities will be decreased as a rifle hunter as with a bunch of x-bow guys joining in on the archery season it will increase harvest , create a draw system and reduce the draw opportunities of the rifle hunter as more would go to the archers.
Thats what youll lose

[grinr]

Originally Posted by madatter

And you could be a 12 year old boy sitting at home getting his kicks off this.....don't know...don't care
This is the net.....if you think you have "infinite wisdom" then I'm really happy for you....even as confused as you are!

yea ok,ya got me,I'm a 12 year girl actually,but you still haven't answered my question.

If crossguns are essentially the same and offer no advantages over compound bows,which according to the armchair expert,internet ninjas are so easy to master,why is it then that you don't see any mass migrations of rifle hunters to bowhunting until after x-bows are legalised?

[madatter]

Everybody here is voicing something.....it's called an opinion
No one here is an expert,tho there are some with infinite wisdom....with nothing but the integrity of spirit of pure bow hunting in mind!
Little ironic isn't it?
When purists they are not....
If people don't like hearing what other people think then too bad for you.....

[madatter]

Originally Posted by grinr

yea ok,ya got me,I'm a 12 year girl actually,but you still haven't answered my question.

If crossguns are essentially the same and offer no advantages over compound bows,which according to the armchair expert,internet ninjas are so easy to master,why is it then that you don't see any mass migrations of rifle hunters to bowhunting until after x-bows are legalised?

I don't see a mass migration.....I see an increase for a few years then stabilization when a lot of people realize that it will still take a lot of skill....just like compound bow guys...to get the job done.
Then people will lose the urge and go back to the rifle.

And I'm happy ya got that male/female thing figured out!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by grinr

yea ok,ya got me,I'm a 12 year girl actually,but you still haven't answered my question.

If crossguns are essentially the same and offer no advantages over compound bows,which according to the armchair expert,internet ninjas are so easy to master,why is it then that you don't see any mass migrations of rifle hunters to bowhunting until after x-bows are legalised?

There is no mass migration to crossbows by rifle hunters and crossbows aren`t legalized so how could there be grinr, one of these days, if you post enough, you`re gonna actually post some accurate facts & stats that make sense to everyone and not just in your own mind.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Your opportunities will be decreased as a rifle hunter as with a bunch of x-bow guys joining in on the archery season it will increase harvest , create a draw system and reduce the draw opportunities of the rifle hunter as more would go to the archers.
Thats what youll lose

Ohh, quit dreaming. Nobody believes the much vaunted loss of opportunity BS for the rifle hunters. Nobody that didn't vote no and most of them don't either, but hey grasp at any straw, right?
What will happen is the mule deer and moose will go on draw where it is a general archery tag now. Then it will be like else where in the province. You will draw a tag and you can hunt it with a bow, rifle, whatever you like. Then archers will wait the same time as I do to hunt a mule deer or moose in my backyard.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

There is no mass migration to crossbows by rifle hunters and and crossbows aren`t legalized so how could there be grinr, one of these days, if you post enough, you`re gonna actually post some accurate facts & stats that make sense to everyone and not just in your own mind.

The facts & stats from several states,ohio,georgia,arkansas to name a few say otherwise,and show that 25-40% of rifle hunters take up x-bows when they are legalised for use during bow season.Why else do you think SRD states that mulie and moose tags will immediately go to a draw?It's because there will be more demand for archery tags than there is quota available....duh.And where will this quota and increased archery success come from?It will mean a reduction in the rifle quota also.....duh again.