To Crossbow or not to crossbow - That is the question!

[The Bit Runner.]

Does anyone know when they are deciding the future of Real bowhunting? When are we going to here the results or decisions?

[jungleboy]

Grinr... so am I to understand that you came here from NB and are now taking part in the hunt in Alberta / killing our deer and moose with your bow and your rifle thereby limiting the number of animals that I as an Albertan should be entitled to. And now because of you, and many others like you ,we have to suffer through a draw system in this province? But you don't want xbows included in the hunt for fear that it will put your bow season on a draw system...Shame on you ...lololololololololollol


you're a peculiar little fella.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Yeah, I read it and I understand it.

Some fisherman in the area would like to fish the lake with Rapalas but 16% of the local fisherman only want to fish with flies, the way that it is now. Because of the 16% of fly fishermen the vast majority of fishermen in the area shouldn't try to get Rapalas included for fishing because the 16% doesn't like Rapalas.

Right?

The vast majority of fisherman should learn to accept that the flyfishing regs are in place to prevent the overharvest of the fish,the overcrowding of the lake,and preserve the quality of angling and the overall quality of the experience for those that are willing to challenge themselves with equipment that takes more skill to be successful.The vast majority are also welcome at any time to take up flyfishing and take advantage of the special resources and season set aside for same.Nothing stopping them,other than their perception that flyfishing is too mysterious and difficult,and they have neither the ambition nor patience to learn something new,so instead they whine and cry foul that they should be allowed to use gear that they are already familiar with.

[HunterDave]

I saw it but I don't want anything to do with them. They cost too much and I doubt that I'd shoot more deer or moose because I was using one. I'm just looking for a crossbow that is more efficient to what I have now and get a pass through instead of only 4 or 5 inched of penetration. I doubt that other than being able to shoot out an extra 10 yds, my bowhunting techniques won't change much. I'll still be in a stand up a tree or in a ground blind.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Grinr... so am I to understand that you came here from NB and are now taking part in the hunt in Alberta / killing our deer and moose with your bow and your rifle thereby limiting the number of animals that I as an Albertan should be entitled to. And now because of you, and many others like you ,we have to suffer through a draw system in this province? But you don't want xbows included in the hunt for fear that it will put your bow season on a draw system...Shame on you ...lololololololololollol


you're a peculiar little fella.

No,I haven't actually hunted a single day in Alberta yet....so far I'm just another goofy newfie here to steal your job and women and help drive the real estate market through the roof.Nice place ya got here though,the hunting and fishin looks awesome....I think I might stay?

[CNP]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Yeah, I read it and I understand it.

Some fisherman in the area would like to fish the lake with Rapalas but 16% of the local fisherman only want to fish with flies, the way that it is now. Because of the 16% of fly fishermen the vast majority of fishermen in the area shouldn't try to get Rapalas included for fishing because the 16% doesn't like Rapalas.

Right?

It's not about not liking Rapalas. I love the Finns because they make good stuff and I am one of them. It's about why the lake is designated fly only. Does the reason hold any weight?

[jungleboy]

Well I hope you enjoy your stay and the fishing ...meh it's ok ,The hunting is great though , we got so many deer in some areas ,they are actually considering allowing people to use a cross bow !!! How do you feel about that?

[bb356]

Originally Posted by grinr

The vast majority of fisherman should learn to accept that the flyfishing regs are in place to prevent the overharvest of the fish,the overcrowding of the lake,and preserve the quality of angling and the overall quality of the experience for those that are willing to challenge themselves with equipment that takes more skill to be successful.The vast majority are also welcome at any time to take up flyfishing and take advantage of the special resources and season set aside for same.Nothing stopping them,other than their perception that flyfishing is too mysterious and difficult,and they have neither the ambition nor patience to learn something new,so instead they whine and cry foul that they should be allowed to use gear that they are already familiar with.

GRINR your like and on old scratched up 78 stuck on one tune!!!! get with the times and move on !!!

[BrownBear416]

If you guys want to keep debating this topic then lets get back on track and cut out the personal attacks or this thread will be closed...

[jungleboy]

post 1000 ******* I win

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by ehntr

It's not about not liking Rapalas. I love the Finns because they make good stuff and I am one of them. It's about why the lake is designated fly only. Does the reason hold any weight?

But all of the fish in the lake were introduced and there's a ton of them. Certainly the inclusion of Rapalas will not have any impact in that particular lake. There are plenty of other fly only lakes that could be opened to rapalas as well due to a health fish population while other lakes could not sustain any increase of rapala fishing pressure. So, wouldn't the smart thing to do be to open the lakes that can support rapalas and keep the remaining lakes closed to them until the fish population can support it?

Rapala fishing wouldn't have to be opened provence wide, just in the lakes that can sustain the increased fishing pressure.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Rapala fishing wouldn't have to be opened provence wide, just in the lakes that can sustain the increased fishing pressure.

oK HD,I'm reasonable enough to accept that,but that's not what we're talking about with x-bows now is it?It's all or nothing,either they are archery gear and allowed in all bow seasons or they are not.If it was a matter of only allowing x-bows in zones where there was a huge surplus of deer and they are under-harvested,such as there is in most states where x-bows are allowed,and allowing x-bows increases the harvest to be more representative of management goals,then sure,why not....but that's not the case.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by grinr

oK HD,I'm reasonable enough to accept that,but that's not what we're talking about with x-bows now is it?It's all or nothing,either they are archery gear and allowed in all bow seasons or they are not.If it was a matter of only allowing x-bows in zones where there was a huge surplus of deer and they are under-harvested,such as there is in most states where x-bows are allowed,and allowing x-bows increases the harvest to be more representative of management goals,then sure,why not....but that's not the case.

How do you know what the SRD plan is? Specifically, how do you know that they will open all wmu's to crossbows and for every species?

[The Bit Runner.]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

How do you know what the SRD plan is? Specifically, how do you know that they will open all wmu's to crossbows and for every species?

Hunter Dave Do You Ever Sleep? This Thread Is Your Life!!

[KegRiver]

Okay, this is getting real confusing. At first we are told that allowing Crossbows would result in less opportunity for everyone.

While I was trying to figure out how that was supposed to work, it switched to Crossbow hunters would have a huge advantage over conventional and compound bow users. At first I said, oh now I understand, but then the argument switched to, other hunters can't understand bow hunters because it's all about getting close and we don't even have the faintest notion what that takes.

Well if the last argument is true, then crossbows would be no threat to anyone. because only true bow hunters know how to get that close to game.

Your first argument tells me that you would like all hunters to agree with you. I for one will not agree to something I don't understand.
I'm trying, but the fishing analogies don't do it for me. If the argument has legs it will stand on it's own, it doesn't need a dry fly to stand on.
The name calling and putting words in folks mouths does not help either.

As for telling me that it will cost me opportunity, I say, so what. All kinds of things cost me opportunity and I'm not about to sign a partition against any of those. So why should this be any different.

Yes allowing outside hunter in was one of those things. Quads were another. Building roads into some remote areas was another.
As I said, things change. I simply adapt. If crossbows further limit my opportunities, oh well. I'll adapt to that as well.

So lets just suppose that there are hundreds of other guys watching this thread and thinking along the same lines as I have been.

Would you tell us to go to H E double hockey sticks or would you offer us a reason to protest the inclusion of crossbows. Cause I gotta tell you guys, telling me I have no idea what bow hunting is like isn't going to do it. Telling me that it will bring more opportunity to folks who aren't bow hunters now won't do it either.

I would oppose it if,
#1 it resulted in significantly increased harvest in low population areas. I don't see that as a potential problem, but I'm open to evidence that would show it to be a concern.

#2 if it gave one type of bow hunter a Huge advantage over all other bow hunters. And then, only if crossbows were legal during bow only seasons in all WMUs. Remember, there are places where only bows and shotguns are allowed. I don't think anyone has a problem with that, and clearly shotguns do offer a considerable advantage over bows.

There may be other reasons I would answer no to crossbows. None have been presented here yet.

Once again, let me remind you, calling me stupid isn't going to get me to agree with you. You may think it is just me you are talking to.
Maybe so. But I'm told that there are 20,000 members on this site, probably less the a hundred have spoken up on this thread. It seems to me that there could potentially be 19,900 members just watching. Are you willing to bet your future hunting opportunities on there being none that agree with me?

[thebuckshow]

I'm with Keg on this one. 100%. I posted a few days ago and I honestly can't believe a couple of "Superman Bowhunters" are still crying about this. Get over it fellas. Your tears landing on your keyboards aren't going make crossbows go away. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!

[Mountain Guy]

On the fishing analogy boys and girls, sorry if I ''muddied the waters'' and seemingly confused some of you.
Those were not my intentions.
I was trying to show something ''hypothetical'' that was somewhat along the same lines as this thread, and because it is quite obvious that the key points for the last 900ish posts are basically repeats.
It was not intended to be a debate about the true and actual definitions of the fishing regs in JNP nor to dicuss the actual definition of what defines a fly.

It was also analogy to try and help explain why I and maybe some other no guys don't agree. Nothin more nothing less...
So, go ahead guys ( and you know who you are ) if you so wish. start beating on me, I can take er'.

Otherwise...... I'd like to make a suggestion.

Perhaps we should now limit this discussion to NEW idea's and NEW debate material.
Another suggestion to ''new'' viewers of this thread.
I suggest you review some of the previous 1000 or so posts, because there's a really good chance that your input has already been discussed and to the umpthed degree.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

How do you know what the SRD plan is? Specifically, how do you know that they will open all wmu's to crossbows and for every species?

Because that IS the debate.

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

Hunter Dave Do You Ever Sleep? This Thread Is Your Life!!

....and oddly enough,HD already has a medical crossbow permit?What's the motivation?Exclusive crossbow distributorship deal in the works maybe?

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I would oppose it if,
#1 it resulted in significantly increased harvest in low population areas. I don't see that as a potential problem, but I'm open to evidence that would show it to be a concern.

#2 if it gave one type of bow hunter a Huge advantage over all other bow hunters. And then, only if crossbows were legal during bow only seasons in all WMUs.

Both of those points have already been repeatedly demonstrated to be true in previous posts,supported with facts and links.The inclusion of x-bows WILL most definately bring a significant number of new "bowhunters" to the bow seasons,using an advantageous weapon,and the result WILL BE a signigicant harvest increase.

It's no different than if say for example you had a muzzleloader ONLY season,then next year you say let's open up that muzzleloader only season to allow any and all centerfire rifles as well,because it's not fair to exclude centerfires,and alot more people already know how to use them,and they don't need to learn any new skills or get closer or hunt with a less advantageous weapon,and what's the difference,because it's still just a bullet propelled by powder and a gun is a gun.

How's that for an analogy?

[grinr]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

.... I'd like to make a suggestion.

Perhaps we should now limit this discussion to NEW idea's and NEW debate material.
Another suggestion to ''new'' viewers of this thread.
I suggest you review some of the previous 1000 or so posts, because there's a really good chance that your input has already been discussed and to the umpthed degree.

Great idea...I'm done repeating myself every 10 pages.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by grinr

It's no different than if say for example you had a muzzleloader ONLY season,then next year you say let's open up that muzzleloader only season to allow any and all centerfire rifles as well,because it's not fair to exclude centerfires,and alot more people already know how to use them,and they don't need to learn any new skills or get closer or hunt with a less advantageous weapon,and what's the difference,because it's still just a bullet propelled by powder and a gun is a gun.

How's that for an analogy?

That analogy doesn't work for me. I don't see that big of a difference between a long bow or compound bow and a crossbow.

To the best of my knowledge, one can not get a crossbow in a repeater, and they do not offer 3 to four times the range.
Those are two very big differences between a mussel loader and a centerfire rifle.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by grinr

Great idea...I'm done repeating myself every 10 pages.

I seriously doubt that.

As far as evidence goes, the Anti's have found evidence to support their claim that Xbow inclusion will have a negative affect on their hunting priviledges, and the the Pro xbow proponents have found evidence to support the opposite view.
This debate will continue long after xbows are allowed,sort of like the global warming thing ,where every time something unusual happens it will be... see !!! it's all because of those cursed xbowhunters and their lazy ways!!!

[grinr]

I guess when it comes to the differences between x-bows and vertical bows,if I have to explain it,you wouldn't understand.I give up.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by grinr

I guess when it comes to the differences between x-bows and vertical bows,if I have to explain it,you wouldn't understand.I give up.

You've explained it ad nauseum but thanks for giving up ,that is truly a gift!

[RobinHood]

Originally Posted by Lomondk

"Grow up this sport is supposed to be here for everyone to enjoy, making an easier way to get into archery hunting is a good idea.... That way more people can enjoy this amazing past time.

Are you saying that , you are for game farms? Especially the bighorn sheep ones, in Saskatchewan, cause it's supposed to be here, for everyone to enjoy, making it easier for more people to do????

Life isn't always about making everyone feel warm and fuzzy. Everything in life has a shelf life, including people. Now my 90 yr old father who doesn't have a drivers license anymore, complains as much as the crossbow guys about how unfair it is.

I enjoy challenges in my life, but then again, I wasn't ever given anything in my life, so I have had to learn how to earn everything with my own hard work.

[jungleboy]

I haven't read anywhere on here about any "cross bow guys " crying that it's "unfair" Most of the "unfair" whining has been coming from the Antis. I would like the opportunity to hunt the bow season with a cross bow .I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if I can't though . And the constant slandering of other hunters as lazy because they disagree with your opinion is getting old old old. I wasn't given anything in life either, and work just as hard as anyone else to get along through life . We all have to work at life . Life is hard, and you don't always get your way, and then you die, the end . ....boo hoo.

side bar---- Game farm??? W.T.H. does that have to do with thecrossbow debate??

[Bowhunter17]

The cross bow guys aren't crying because there aren't any! It's rifle hunters that want to hunt in the bow season. Lets be honest thats all this is, i have never seen a crossbow hunter hunting in the rifle season yet i hunt with my bow all rifle season as do many other bowhunters. If you want to hunt in the archery season it is simple buy a bow, practice and hunt. Or maybe just open up rifle season at the begining of september thats what you really want, and if they did this i would bet you would,t be using a crossbow!

[RobinHood]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

I haven't read anywhere on here about any "cross bow guys " crying that it's "unfair" Most of the "unfair" whining has been coming from the Antis. I would like the opportunity to hunt the bow season with a cross bow .I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if I can't though . And the constant slandering of other hunters as lazy because they disagree with your opinion is getting old old old. I wasn't given anything in life either, and work just as hard as anyone else to get along through life . We all have to work at life . Life is hard, and you don't always get your way, and then you die, the end . ....boo hoo.

side bar---- Game farm??? W.T.H. does that have to do with thecrossbow debate??

The “For crossbows ’’guys are crying unfair, as much or more…. It's unfair they (bow hunters) don't have draws, unfair that they have no draw times waits, it's unfair they have an extra 2 months is some parts of the province, it's unfair they can hunt mule deer and moose every year, it's unfair they have 3 zones allocated to archery, etc...

Somewhere along the way, most bow hunters made a choice, sit whine etc, or step out there comfort zone and put down the gun and learn how to bow hunt. Either for prolonged seasons and increased opportunity, the challenge or just cause someone else did it. Realistically nothing has changed since the first rifle hunter’s mirrgrated over. The opportunity to share the same benefits is still there. All you have to do is take the steps to do so.

The Hunting farms analogy is to show most people don't want easier hunts, but the crossbow for guys do, because the crossbow is a easier tool to master, admittedly .So you can sheep hunt in the mountains, or in a pen ….like you can bow hunt or crossbow hunt. Remember the other provinces that allow crossbows also allow baiting, canned hunting or a combination. I for one don’t want to be like Saskatchewan, or B.C, I like Alberta how it is, a leader not a follower.

[jungleboy]

and around and around we go

Originally Posted by RobinHood

The Hunting farms analogy is to show most people don't want easier hunts, but the crossbow for guys do, because the crossbow is a easier tool to master, admittedly .So you can sheep hunt in the mountains, or in a pen ….like you can bow hunt or crossbow hunt. Remember the other provinces that allow crossbows also allow baiting, canned hunting or a combination. I for one don’t want to be like Saskatchewan, or B.C, I like Alberta how it is, a leader not a follower.

I think you are confusing hunting and shooting Robin. I'll totally admit that the crossbow learning curve for learning to shoot is less steep than the compound although with technological advancements in the compound, the curve is getting closer together. But, the fact still remains that you need to get within range (the hunting part). Pretty easy to teach anyone to shoot either weapon......not so simple to teach them to get within archery ranges....That's why I keep asking, why criticize a weapon that is easy to learn how to use proficiently. I don't hear too much whining about how much releases and pin sights have made compounds easier to learn to shoot and there shouldn't be. Why should that be a negative about crossbows? Your analogy was a very poor one.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

You've explained it ad nauseum but thanks for giving up ,that is truly a gift!

....and yet still you don't get it.Maybe I'll continue....just for you buds.