To Crossbow or not to crossbow - That is the question!

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

here is another question that as been asked and not answered for a year or so. lets forget crossbows for a second. what if some fluke of nature occurred that made vertical bowhunter numbers double for next season. would bow guys still be opposed to new bowhunters joining the ranks? everyone keeps saying that anyone can buy a bow and go....but the result would be the same.....no more over the counter tags and more draws. who still opposes?

edit...didnt mean to quote...just reply

Totally ok with that!!

[packhuntr]

Dave, you do NOT know what you are talking about now. There could be an entire book written on the last 100 yards. If you have never played this game, you cannot know. Theres a whole lot I could just touch the surface on right here for ya, but it isnt gonna happen. There are few that know how to close on game in open country Dave, let alone how to come to draw on them, and theres reasons why so few that carry a bow in this open country are able to cut tags. The ones that know how do not train guys. Its real simple,,, spend a large portion of your life stalking O/C big game and you will know what you are talking about... And yes Dave,,, there are a BIG bunch of guys in this province whose success rates would take very large jumps if they began using this weapon. Do you know who the ABA is... No, they are not a bowling league, they are archers, and they are chalk full of the real deal...

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Apparently SRD thinks they are close enough to consider it....it will be interesting to see what hunters have to say.

Yes it will be interesting to see what hunters have to say. I certianly hope they make the stats public, it would also be interesting to see how the hunters that have not held a bowhunting permit over the last few years vote.

From the discussions I have had the guys who exclusively bowhunt or bowhunt more than rifle hunt seem to side with "no" while the guys I know that don't bow hunt mostly say "yes". My straw poll does not look good for bowhunters who are happy with the current definition of a legal bow. No real surprises for me here.

What does the non-bowhunter have to lose by voting "yes"?

How would a vote go if it was to carve out a chunk of the rifle season for a Muzzleloader season?

Next thing you know they will have to convert the current bike paths into 4 lane roads because of the influx of new "cyclists" LOL LOL LOL....

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

How could you feel like you belong in archery season with a cross bow.

I never said I did but I suspect lots of people do. I often find people have different opinions on matters such as this, each with their own reasons for thinking their decision is right. I don't think it makes either of them stupid. Despite what many seem to be saying here, opinions on issues like this really can't be wrong or stupid.

Originally Posted by LongDraw

Yes it will be interesting to see what hunters have to say. I certianly hope they make the stats public, it would also be interesting to see how the hunters that have not held a bowhunting permit over the last few years vote.

From the discussions I have had the guys who exclusively bowhunt or bowhunt more than rifle hunt seem to side with "no" while the guys I know that don't bow hunt mostly say "yes". My straw poll does not look good for bowhunters who are happy with the current definition of a legal bow. No real surprises for me here.

What does the non-bowhunter have to lose by voting "yes"?

How would a vote go if it was to carve out a chunk of the rifle season for a Muzzleloader season?

Next thing you know they will have to convert the current bike paths into 4 lane roads because of the influx of new "cyclists" LOL LOL LOL....

LOL...interestingly, SRD has given no indication what they'll do with the results either. I wonder if they'll base their decision soley on the majority? From what I hear through the grapevine, the response hasn't been that high yet but there's still some to send out. I haven't got mine yet.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I never said I did but I suspect lots of people do. I often find people have different opinions on matters such as this, each with their own reasons for thinking their decision is right.

Perhaps.... but what gets my goat more than anything is the new wave thinking.
Why should I change to conform to existing rules that are in place ( ANY hunter who wants to hunt in bow season has the right to ''change'' and go bowhunting)
Now it's.... I want to be able to hunt with a x-bow during bow season, so society ahould change to appease my wish !

Which group was the selfish one again ???

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

LOL...interestingly, SRD has given no indication what they'll do with the results either. I wonder if they'll base their decision soley on the majority? From what I hear through the grapevine, the response hasn't been that high yet but there's still some to send out. I haven't got mine yet.

If the majority has spoken, I dont see that they could make a call contrary to what the majority desires, could they? I guess they did it with RAMP, but after seeking everyones pulse, and everyone knowing how severely outnumbered the archers of Ab are, if it is done democratically, the pro xbow side will destroy the opposition. Right, wrong, it is what it is I guess,,,, and I still havent recieved my ballot either so dont feel left out Sheep.

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Which group was the selfish one again ???

I think that depends which side of the fence you are looking from. LOL

Originally Posted by packhuntr

If the majority has spoken, I dont see that they could make a call contrary to what the majority desires, could they? I guess they did it with RAMP, but after seeking everyones pulse, and everyone knowing how severely outnumbered the archers of Ab are, if it is done democratically, the pro xbow side will destroy the opposition. Right, wrong, it is what it is I guess,,,, and I still havent recieved my ballot either so dont feel left out Sheep.

Another thing to consider is that you need to be signed up for winrealm to receive a survey. I suspect that eliminates a large percentage of older hunters. It's truly not all hunters voting........

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Dave, you do NOT know what you are talking about now. There could be an entire book written on the last 100 yards. If you have never played this game, you cannot know. Theres a whole lot I could just touch the surface on right here for ya, but it isnt gonna happen. There are few that know how to close on game in open country Dave, let alone how to come to draw on them, and theres reasons why so few that carry a bow in this open country are able to cut tags. The ones that know how do not train guys. Its real simple,,, spend a large portion of your life stalking O/C big game and you will know what you are talking about... And yes Dave,,, there are a BIG bunch of guys in this province whose success rates would take very large jumps if they began using this weapon. Do you know who the ABA is... No, they are not a bowling league, they are archers, and they are chalk full of the real deal...

im one of those guys pack. ive bowhunted 16 years in southern alberta and used a crossbow for the 2 years i lived in bc. i have experience with both, and can tell you for sure that you are making assumptions here that just dont add up. before i had any experience, i once was one of those who thought a crossbow was a deadly superkiller. after hunting with one, i can assure you its just another bow. the effective range is pretty well identical, and the movement to get it into shooting position is pretty similar. i reckon thats why harvest rates are so similar.

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Perhaps.... but what gets my goat more than anything is the new wave thinking.
Why should I change to conform to existing rules that are in place ( ANY hunter who wants to hunt in bow season has the right to ''change'' and go bowhunting)
Now it's.... I want to be able to hunt with a x-bow during bow season, so society ahould change to appease my wish !

Which group was the selfish one again ???

my view of it is not so much that change is needed to appease anyone so much as a mistake was made many years ago that should be corrected.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I think that depends which side of the fence you are looking from. LOL

It seems to me that its predominantly ''yes'' folk using this arguement.

[The Bit Runner.]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I never said I did but I suspect lots of people do. I often find people have different opinions on matters such as this, each with their own reasons for thinking their decision is right. I don't think it makes either of them stupid. Despite what many seem to be saying here, opinions on issues like this really can't be wrong or stupid.

Opinion is one thing but to continue to here that a cross bow is the same as my bow and the stats show this that and the other, Who realy gives a sh**. The bottom line is they are tring to put a wepond in archery season that should not belong. Thats not a opinion thats a fact & people would go on facts we would not be having this dispute.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

im one of those guys pack. ive bowhunted 16 years in southern alberta and used a crossbow for the 2 years i lived in bc. i have experience with both, and can tell you for sure that you are making assumptions here that just dont add up. before i had any experience, i once was one of those who thought a crossbow was a deadly superkiller. after hunting with one, i can assure you its just another bow. the effective range is pretty well identical, and the movement to get it into shooting position is pretty similar. i reckon thats why harvest rates are so similar.

If you are what you say you are, youd be the least effective finisher ive ever met in my life,,, that is if a xbow will NOT do for you what it WILL do for the rest of us... If you know how with a bow, any shouldered and fired weapon isnt even a challenge... Id love to expound, but obviously wont. AGAIN, it will not even be a challenge to kill O/C Big Game with a xbow. So no,,, I still havent changed my mind, a xbow isnt archery equipment, sorry. Ive said my peace on this and believe Im through.

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

Opinion is one thing but to continue to here that a cross bow is the same as my bow and the stats show this that and the other, Who realy gives a sh**. The bottom line is they are tring to put a wepond in archery season that should not belong. Thats not a opinion thats a fact & people would go on facts we would not be having this dispute.

There are lots of states and provinces where crossbows are considered archery equpment and that's a fact. People are not always going to agree with your opinion but that doesn't necessarily make them stupid...just different.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

im one of those guys pack. ive bowhunted 16 years in southern alberta and used a crossbow for the 2 years i lived in bc. i have experience with both, and can tell you for sure that you are making assumptions here that just dont add up. before i had any experience, i once was one of those who thought a crossbow was a deadly superkiller. after hunting with one, i can assure you its just another bow. the effective range is pretty well identical, and the movement to get it into shooting position is pretty similar. i reckon thats why harvest rates are so similar.






my view of it is not so much that change is needed to appease anyone so much as a mistake was made many years ago that should be corrected.

so your bitter about a ''mistake made many years ago''
I learned at a young age to get over old mistakes and make the best of what i have now..

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

If you are what you say you are, youd be the least effective finisher ive ever met in my life,,, that is if a xbow will NOT do for you what it WILL do for the rest of us... If you know how with a bow, any shouldered and fired weapon isnt even a challenge... Id love to expound, but obviously wont. AGAIN, it will not even be a challenge to kill O/C Big Game with a xbow. So no,,, I still havent changed my mind, a xbow isnt archery equipment, sorry. Ive said my peace on this and believe Im through.

i am what i say i am.... a vertical archer who wont be changing weapons when the changes come. im sure you have read the thread bambis season. i tend to not kill a lot of deer because i am fussy about what gets to wear my tag. i havent killed a deer with my bow in about 5 years....not because i cant, but because i choose not to. the biggest problem for me in killing mule deer down south is finding one i want to kill....and a crossbow isnt gonna help with that.

im just wondering pack....when have you hunted with a crossbow to have the answers you do?

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

so your bitter about a ''mistake made many years ago''
I learned at a young age to get over old mistakes and make the best of what i have now..

im not bitter about anything. if you have paid attention to my opinion on this, youll know i have no vested interest in the outcome.....and i think the entire argument is silly. whatever happens, ill still hunt with a vertical bow as i already know the truth about crossbows.

[The Bit Runner.]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

There are lots of states and provinces where crossbows are considered archery equpment and that's a fact. People are not always going to agree with your opinion but that doesn't necessarily make them stupid...just different.

Just because i jump off the bridge and kill my self you will jump too?? Our province does not have to be the same as others. I never said they were stupid they just want whats easy, Once again if you want to bow hunt go by a bow!!! Not a gun that shoots arrows.

[packhuntr]

Bambi, just think on it,, if you have to ask that question, you simply do not have the experience you say you do.

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

Just because i jump off the bridge and kill my self you will jump too?? Our province does not have to be the same as others. I never said they were stupid they just want whats easy, Once again if you want to bow hunt go by a bow!!! Not a gun that shoots arrows.

LOL...never said we should be the same...just that there was precident for some people's opinions. This isn't some outrageous idea that a bunch of lazy crossbow shooters in Alberta dreamed up. Anyhow, I respect the fact you are opposed but I also respect that some people may support crossbows...and no, I don't think they are stupid or lazy...just different.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Dave, you do NOT know what you are talking about now. There could be an entire book written on the last 100 yards. If you have never played this game, you cannot know. Theres a whole lot I could just touch the surface on right here for ya, but it isnt gonna happen. There are few that know how to close on game in open country Dave, let alone how to come to draw on them, and theres reasons why so few that carry a bow in this open country are able to cut tags. The ones that know how do not train guys. Its real simple,,, spend a large portion of your life stalking O/C big game and you will know what you are talking about... And yes Dave,,, there are a BIG bunch of guys in this province whose success rates would take very large jumps if they began using this weapon. Do you know who the ABA is... No, they are not a bowling league, they are archers, and they are chalk full of the real deal...

Do you know when you've lost the debate? It's when you realize that your argument is crumbling and you start saying that the other person doesn't know what they're talking about.

Pack, you've got to put your emotions aside if you want to know the facts about hunting with a crossbow vs a compound bow. Very few, if any, people are going to be wacking animals out to 100 yds with a crossbow. If they are doing it now with a compound bow then fine, maybe they will be able to do it with a compound bow as well. But the idea, which you seem to have adopted as fact, is that everyone is going to go out and do it. It is simply not true!

No one's success rate is going to skyrocket due to being able to use a crossbow instead of a compound bow. You either know what you're doing or you don't and it's not going to make a big difference whether you use a compound bow or a crossbow. Your own proficiency with either/or will make the ultimate difference in whether you are successful or not.

Allot of people myself included have dedicated our lives to and have been professionally trained by the best in stalking, camoflauge and concealment, diversions, closing the deal, etc, etc, etc. Just because someone pays their dues to join an association does not make them an expert bowhunter. Now, if there was some kind of entry test to weed out the weak, unskilled or just plain unknowledgable members that might be a little more impressive. (No disrespect meant to the Alberta Bicycle Association intended)

You've got to start opening up to the facts if you want to have an informed opinion. There are several people on this thread that either are or have hunted with crossbows. Allot of what you're stating as fact is mythical.

[HunterDave]

[QUOTE=The Bit Runner.;771191 The bottom line is they are tring to put a wepond in archery season that should not belong. Thats not a opinion thats a fact & people would go on facts we would not be having this dispute.[/QUOTE]

No, that's your opinion that crossbows don't belong. My opinion is that crossbows do belong in archery season.....and that's a fact!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

im just wondering pack....when have you hunted with a crossbow to have the answers you do?

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

Just because i jump off the bridge and kill my self you will jump too??

Of course I would Bit Runner................okay, you go first.

[blades]

I would like to make a couple of points and an offer,....1-horizontal bows are not guns, never have never will, in fact from a historical point of view, horizontal bows have been around long before guns (pre 400 BC) so our guns are hand cannons mounted on a horizontal bow stock.
2-'bolt' is an archaic term that refers to a pointed projectile with no fletching, an 'arrow' has 4 components, which includes vanes or fletching which adds stability to flight. Horizontal bows fling 'arrows', be it shorter ones.
My offer is thus; avaliable to anyone who requests it, a copy of my article The Great Crossbow Experiment, which covers the pro's and cons of the 100 yd shot with a horizontal bow. ( does not include info on the new PSE bow.) PM me for the article.
BTW I am a crossbow instructor with AHEIA as well as hunter training and firearms courses.

Todd Brown aka Blades

[The Bit Runner.]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

No, that's your opinion that crossbows don't belong. My opinion is that crossbows do belong in archery season.....and that's a fact!

No hunter dave, Thats not my opinion,thats just plain logic. Like i said a gun that shoots arrows is not a bow. If your simple little mind cant figure that out
you have no hope

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

No hunter dave, Thats not my opinion,thats just plain logic. Like i said a gun that shoots arrows is not a bow. If your simple little mind cant figure that out
you have no hope

What do you base your logic on.....your opinion?

[Mistagin]

Surveys are still coming out, I just got mine.

Voted "YES"

[elkrub]

"Another thing to consider is that you need to be signed up for winrealm to receive a survey. I suspect that eliminates a large percentage of older hunters. It's truly not all hunters voting........"

How do I sign up for winrealm?
Thanks

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Surveys are still coming out, I just got mine.

Voted "YES"

You already hunt with a crossbow don't you Mistagin? Why'd ya vote yes if you can already do it....or it's none of my business?

[The Bit Runner.]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

What do you base your logic on.....your opinion?

We know your confused Dave.... With all of your posts making no sence.
Like i said if you cant see the difference then i justat you.