Prussian Carp update

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Wood1

Very familiar. In addition to indoor recirc systems it allows outdoor impoundments not exceeding 600sq/ft with a liner and isolated from other water bodies.

Exactly. The idiots with crap in ponds along the creek drainage would of never had a commercial license granted.

[spaghetti]

I dunno, this all seems like it was inevitable really in some way or another.

Alberta doesn't really have a lot of fish variety in the first place compared to other provinces or even the states, I mean: We have our trout, pike, walleye, etc.. but we don't really have much in the way of stocking distribution.
Realistically we just have trout and the province is entirely too invested in running water.

This is just MY opinion based on observation, but it doesn't seem like Alberta really cares or is invested in the "still water scene". They just put trout in everything and they're not concerned with stocking native species in sloughs, irrigation ponds, ponds, etc..

Like, you can't go to the fisheries and ask for some perch, suckers, minnows, and some pike to fill out a pond.
The fisheries don't EVEN breed non-trout species while Yellow perch, Suckers, Pike, and Walleye are being fished clean out of any spots people can find them.

Why would anyone fill out any of the paper work, pay the fees, and jump through the hoops to have mommy an daddy tromp onto their land and inspect their "pond" so they can have the PRIVILEGE of it being stocked with sterile trout they'll constantly have to restock?

When they can just get 200 goldfish for like 30 dollars. Why WOULDN'T they do that is more like it?

I dunno.
It doesn't feel like ecoterrorism.
It just feels like normal people casually breaking the law because it's so EASY and a disconnection from the needs of PONDS vs the NEEDS of rivers or something.

I DUNNO. I AM A YOUNG ADULT.

[Deer]

Why doesn't Alberta restock fish like bull trout and lake sturgeon into their traditional habitat to help them recover?

[slivers86]

Originally Posted by Deer

Why doesn't Alberta restock fish like bull trout and lake sturgeon into their traditional habitat to help them recover?

bull trout have been restocked into many waters in the province, such as chain lakes system, kananaskis lakes, etc. Unsure about sturgeon.

[buckmaster]

Originally Posted by Deer

Why doesn't Alberta restock fish like bull trout and lake sturgeon into their traditional habitat to help them recover?

Where is lake sturgeons traditional habitat ?

[Crankbait]

Reported and in another Southern Reservoir, not going to post but did report it. If they make it past this rez, we're doomed.

[AK47]

There is no way right now to get rid of them so we better learn how to catch it. They are very good eating fish as long as they are not from very muddy waters as that mud taste can become quite obvious in their flesh as well. Bigger ones put up good fight ( my best in back in Europe was over 4 lbs) so no reason not to learn and enjoy their fishing now. And yes, smaller ones are perfect bait for pike - every fishing store in Eastern Europe will have small prussian carp for sale as live bait. I think fear of them dominating some waters is a bit unjustified... I have never seen them overrun any lakes or rivers back home. They can dominate small ponds though but get stunted and never reach good sizes in those. Obviously Alberta is different from Eastern Europe and nobody can tell for sure how it will look in 20-30 years down the road.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by AK47

There is no way right now to get rid of them so we better learn how to catch it. They are very good eating fish as long as they are not from very muddy waters as that mud taste can become quite obvious in their flesh as well. Bigger ones put up good fight ( my best in back in Europe was over 4 lbs) so no reason not to learn and enjoy their fishing now. And yes, smaller ones are perfect bait for pike - every fishing store in Eastern Europe will have small prussian carp for sale as live bait. I think fear of them dominating some waters is a bit unjustified... I have never seen them overrun any lakes or rivers back home. They can dominate small ponds though but get stunted and never reach good sizes in those. Obviously Alberta is different from Eastern Europe and nobody can tell for sure how it will look in 20-30 years down the road.

Here, they will remain unusable for bait. Guess they should bring back commercial fishing.

Bolded- With invasive species, it will be worse with, than it would be with out them. No doubt about that.

[jeprli]

Commercial fishing
What was it they do with by catch???

Oh yeah, they pile em high......so much for native species protection.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by jeprli

Commercial fishing
What was it they do with by catch???

Oh yeah, they pile em high......so much for native species protection.

They could remove as much as possible. Dont care what they do with them.
Feed them to pigs, chicken, pile them up or even find a human market I guess.

As I said though, "With invasive species, it will be worse with, than it would be with out them. No doubt about that."

While I understand jeprli and AK47 like carp. They are an invasive species and should be treated as such.

[jeprli]

Hfh you're too busy being "correct". You can only assume what I like. Ridiculing people to achieve credibility speaks for itself.

What do you know about Prussian carp except what Internet told you? What have you done to help prevent invasion?

Absolutely nothing, you wouldn't even know of this issue if it was not for this board.

[Crankbait]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

They could remove as much as possible. Dont care what they do with them.
Feed them to pigs, chicken, pile them up or even find a human market I guess.

As I said though, "With invasive species, it will be worse with, than it would be with out them. No doubt about that."

While I understand jeprli and AK47 like carp. They are an invasive species and should be treated as such.

I think what jeprli was saying is that we treat native species like burbot as a bycatch that is wasted in piles on the ice from the commercial fishers.

I could be wrong.

[jeprli]

^ exactly crank bait.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by spaghetti

I dunno, this all seems like it was inevitable really in some way or another.

Alberta doesn't really have a lot of fish variety in the first place compared to other provinces or even the states, I mean: We have our trout, pike, walleye, etc.. but we don't really have much in the way of stocking distribution.
Realistically we just have trout and the province is entirely too invested in running water.

This is just MY opinion based on observation, but it doesn't seem like Alberta really cares or is invested in the "still water scene". They just put trout in everything and they're not concerned with stocking native species in sloughs, irrigation ponds, ponds, etc..

Like, you can't go to the fisheries and ask for some perch, suckers, minnows, and some pike to fill out a pond.
The fisheries don't EVEN breed non-trout species while Yellow perch, Suckers, Pike, and Walleye are being fished clean out of any spots people can find them.

Why would anyone fill out any of the paper work, pay the fees, and jump through the hoops to have mommy an daddy tromp onto their land and inspect their "pond" so they can have the PRIVILEGE of it being stocked with sterile trout they'll constantly have to restock?

When they can just get 200 goldfish for like 30 dollars. Why WOULDN'T they do that is more like it?

I dunno.
It doesn't feel like ecoterrorism.
It just feels like normal people casually breaking the law because it's so EASY and a disconnection from the needs of PONDS vs the NEEDS of rivers or something.

I DUNNO. I AM A YOUNG ADULT.

Fish and Wildlife has always considered which species to stock. Most people want some variety. In a province with no real native rainbow/brown trout fisheries emphasis was placed there. Plus the benefits of them working well in a put and take model. Small ponds, pothole lakes and slightly larger lakes have the problem of not being able to sustain a natural reproducing population of sport fish. Stocking pike to supplement does not seem to work for instance. Main reason is fishing pressure cleans them out too fast. Making a small pond catch and release for pike does not seem to make people excited. 2 lb pike or 2 lb trout. What do people prefer over all? Native species in the larger lakes benefit from stocked ponds by removing fishing pressure.

Problem is a few people can't catch the trout...likely in the summer because they are more lethargic and stay deep so they think the lake is fished out. Then they feel self appointed to fix it by stocking perch...cause as a kid they could catch them all year at Wabamun.

Then the trout fishery is ruined. Then the perch stunt and the perch fishery is ruined.

Then they move to the next lake to destroy.

[jeprli]

"Few people can't catch trout during summer from a stocked pond" is causing bucket brigades to dump perch around? They would need fairly sophisticated gear to transfer fish from one body of water to next, that takes a bit more intellect than to attach sinker and hook to a fishing line. Most stocked ponds are not that deep and hatchery trout are willing to gulp up anything most of the year.

Chain lakes is a huge body of water, yet it cannot produce fish over 2 lbs, rainbows. Suckers get up to 5-6lbs and are very common in 2-3lb range from this lake. Trout seem to be stunted, or maybe lacking ability to make the most out of food source that is available in that body of water. Lake is loaded with shrimp. Better stock it with brookies than, they grow quicker, are even easier to catch than brown and rainbow and are definitely better eating.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by jeprli

Hfh you're too busy being "correct". You can only assume what I like. Ridiculing people to achieve credibility speaks for itself.

What do you know about Prussian carp except what Internet told you? What have you done to help prevent invasion?

Absolutely nothing, you wouldn't even know of this issue if it was not for this board.

Not sure where I was Ridiculing you or anyone to achieve credibility?

I do know they are an invasive species! That is the whole point!!!

What would you have me do? Who is doing the attacking(sure isnt me)?

[spaghetti]

Ultimately I don't think stocked trout should be used as an excuse to stop or discourage the stocking and breeding of native species of fish. I also don't think stocking and breeding native fish species has to be the end of trout stocking.

You're saying stocked pike won't work or don't produce large enough fish or they won't exist fishermen.
You're saying stocked perch push out trout than starve and stunt themselves creating unappealing fishing.

Why not just establish a stocking method that utilizes a "mix bag" of native fish species? By that I mean breed up a bunch of species and proceed to introduce in stages: Various minnows, suckers, perch, pike, walleye, and maybe even continue to throw in trout as a buffer zone against fishing?

It seems everyone is constantly afraid of stocking native species on the basis they'll ruin stocked trout fishing.. and you're in the defense of stocked trout fishing because it alleviates the pressure of fishing native species ... but don't you find that counter intuitive?

I'm positive both sides can get what they want: more fish, more fishing, and it begins and ends with actually creating naturally self-reproducing habitats and discouraging these.. I guess artificial methods? Artificial trout?

Just a thought.
I don't even know if I'm making any sense: I'm just on full blog mode right now.

[jeprli]

I sure hope nobody is "attacked " over Prussian carp.

Here is the real problem with this species. They are mostly triploids, but in a different sense than what we understand to be , for most fisherman triploid means a non reproductive fish. In Prussian carp triploids are females which are 100% of initial population. These triploid females can use milt from other carp related species and fertilize their eggs. Milt of other carp species is only used to fertilize eggs, it does not bind and create a cross, instead it creates into a clone of its mother. Females lay eggs approximately until age of 8 years, twice a year, delivering up to 100000 eggs each time. Once they are dominant they will start producing males. These fish can lay their eggs anywhere, they do not need specific structure like most native fish do.

There have been numerous efforts to get rid of Prussian carp in Danube basin but it is not possible. Even population control is hard to achieve unless it's a small body of water.

Extermination, impossible!
This is a money pit that no one will be willing to finance. A losing battle.

After

[Icatchfish]

Some people are very knowledgable about carp and some people are excited about fishing them. Yet no one knows where these fish come from. What an interesting thing

Regardless, they are here so better get used to it.

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by spaghetti

Ultimately I don't think stocked trout should be used as an excuse to stop or discourage the stocking and breeding of native species of fish. I also don't think stocking and breeding native fish species has to be the end of trout stocking.

You're saying stocked pike won't work or don't produce large enough fish or they won't exist fishermen.
You're saying stocked perch push out trout than starve and stunt themselves creating unappealing fishing.

Why not just establish a stocking method that utilizes a "mix bag" of native fish species? By that I mean breed up a bunch of species and proceed to introduce in stages: Various minnows, suckers, perch, pike, walleye, and maybe even continue to throw in trout as a buffer zone against fishing?

It seems everyone is constantly afraid of stocking native species on the basis they'll ruin stocked trout fishing.. and you're in the defense of stocked trout fishing because it alleviates the pressure of fishing native species ... but don't you find that counter intuitive?

I'm positive both sides can get what they want: more fish, more fishing, and it begins and ends with actually creating naturally self-reproducing habitats and discouraging these.. I guess artificial methods? Artificial trout?

Just a thought.
I don't even know if I'm making any sense: I'm just on full blog mode right now.

simple answer is funding. no money no facilities and most people happy to catch something at all, even 6 inch stocked trout. majority wins

[landwalker]

I agree it is irreversible to any water downstream, the best can do is preventing from spread up. The level of prevention is to match the degree of damage could cause, budget is never unlimited.

Disagree with people leaving them die on shore. I believe it is justified to kill for filling our dining table, liking hunting and fishing. However, killing based on dislike or so, is not disagreed.

Respect life is my philosophy. Those fish they didn't choose to come, but once they were born, they are to be respected as a life.

[jeprli]

Best post in the whole tread!

[canliguo]

Originally Posted by landwalker

I agree it is irreversible to any water downstream, the best can do is preventing from spread up. The level of prevention is to match the degree of damage could cause, budget is never unlimited.

Disagree with people leaving them die on shore. I believe it is justified to kill for filling our dining table, liking hunting and fishing. However, killing based on dislike or so, is not disagreed.

Respect life is my philosophy. Those fish they didn't choose to come, but once they were born, they are to be respected as a life.

good and positive point.

[AlbertaCutthroat]

Originally Posted by landwalker

I agree it is irreversible to any water downstream, the best can do is preventing from spread up. The level of prevention is to match the degree of damage could cause, budget is never unlimited.

Disagree with people leaving them die on shore. I believe it is justified to kill for filling our dining table, liking hunting and fishing. However, killing based on dislike or so, is not disagreed.

Respect life is my philosophy. Those fish they didn't choose to come, but once they were born, they are to be respected as a life.

The coyotes/ hawks/ eagles/ other critters will eat them, these invasive fish should be punted into the willows upon capture. These are invasive fish, not kittens....

[packhuntr]

For those assuming netting will help... It will not. An outbreak in an undisclosed body of water in this Brooks area, resulted in SRD, and local commercial fisherman virtually skunking out in this situation. Some people knew me and knew I had smaller gill nets for annual licenced canal, personal use whitefish capture. I responded. We attempted multiple days with virtually no results. Mesh size was perfect, but due to confirmation at the gill area, capture was deemed nearly IMPOSSIBLE. Couple that with the fact that they are very smart and elusive, once pressured they quickly become extremely evasive. This is all I will add here, but thought it important that people know just how difficult this species is to contain and deal with. Its a runaway...

[RisingRainbows]

The meat still shouldn't be wasted. Why not just eat it instead of throwing it in the bushes. Or give it to another fisherman to eat...

[landwalker]

Went to a lake near Kelowna over 10 years ago, while looking for spot, walked to a place with about 10 carps on shore, rotten already, a very stinky and unpleasure scene.

[J D]

When an invasive species becomes established in multiple systems they are not going away. There are many examples of this all over the country and in the end attempts to get rid of them fail and only cost a lot of $.

In south western BC netting, Electra shock, and other methods were attempted in a lot of waters to remove largemouth bass. In the end non of it worked and the bass are still spreading along with other invasive like sunfish.

Sorry to say but these carp are now going to become part of the ecosystem in Alberta. All you can really hope for is the impact is limited.

Push for them to be legal for bait and encourage people to eat them. Find a use for them and people will go out of there way to target them. See anyone moving them be sure to report them and stick around so co's have good info so they can charge them.

Only time will tell on how this will play out.

[trainerdave]

The only thing we can do is prevent them from going upstream using weirs. I suggest every F&G club determine if this is possible and act before the Spring runoff. We may also have to look at our water diversion practices...like the following.
Prussian carp can easily invade Buffalo lake if they have not already. Water is diverted and pumped up and out of the Red Deer River through Parlby Creek. Is this water pumped through a filter? If not, they will likely invade a whole new series of waterways and lakes. Tiny minnows are sucked up and through the piping system and deposited in a whole new ecosystem. Just like that. Up the Creek without a paddle...

[spinN'flyfish]

commercially harvest them or do they taste like &*$% ?