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10-05-2017, 06:25 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dreadful Valley
Posts: 14,622
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It's interesting to see he has a Facebook persona. I wonder how long that'll last?
__________________
There are no absolutes
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10-05-2017, 06:43 PM
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,747
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Honestly, if the gun still functions well it's probably better than a new express. And there's nothing like a walking gun with a few battle scars.
That being said, there's a special level of hell reserved for people who lie about the condition of their guns. There are only two tv channels and all that is on are reruns of Full House and The Talk.
Colin
__________________
Check out my new book on Kindle - After The Flesh.
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10-05-2017, 07:17 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sylvan Lake
Posts: 3,430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenC68
Not sure what you did to said gun but sure didn't look like that when it left and I have pictures of the whole gun.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
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BenC68 has not made any friends yet
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10-05-2017, 08:31 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sylvan Lake
Posts: 162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
Pic you sent me
Pic I just took 2hrs after it arrived
I wouldn't go through the trouble of putting false serial numbers on a beat up shotgun!!!
We haven't told the whole story yet, but I'm hoping you'll stick around so we can.
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Looks like the pic he sent you was prob taken 5yrs ago lol, there's no way all the marks on the side of the receiver could be hidden in his pic.
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10-05-2017, 08:50 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureshot73
Looks like the pic he sent you was prob taken 5yrs ago lol, there's no way all the marks on the side of the receiver could be hidden in his pic.
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I'm not sure when he took the pic, but I guarantee I took mine today, about 2hrs after it arrived in the mail. The serial numbers don't lie so it's 100% the same gun.
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10-05-2017, 08:58 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenC68
Not sure what you did to said gun but sure didn't look like that when it left and I have pictures of the whole gun.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
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I have no idea how you can sell a piece of crap like that and sleep at night. Remember, Karma will come calling one day.
__________________
When in doubt, use full throttle. It may not improve the situation, but it will end the suspense.
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10-05-2017, 09:53 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenC68
Not sure what you did to said gun but sure didn't look like that when it left and I have pictures of the whole gun.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
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Let's see them then.
Don
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10-05-2017, 10:04 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
Pic you sent me
Pic I just took 2hrs after it arrived
I wouldn't go through the trouble of putting false serial numbers on a beat up shotgun!!!
We haven't told the whole story yet, but I'm hoping you'll stick around so we can.
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If you expand the top photo of the side view you can just barely see the 2 rust spots on the top of the rifle.
My phone picks those 2 rust spots up easy.
Ben made sure he did not send a photo from the top angle looking down as it would of made a difference in the sale price.
Shameful is an under statement.
Don
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10-05-2017, 10:20 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenC68
Well well well. Let's tell the whole story here.
The gun is in excellent shape. Or at least was when it left my house. I sold it to you for $400 which was $100 off asking price. It's a timeless gun that will last generations.
That's clearly two guns you're taking picture off. The small rust on the top is negligible and the puts is not the gun i sold. As stated, it was more than fair to you. Have a good day
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
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WELL WELL
You sir should be ashamed of yourself , that is something a crook would do ,
You know it and that's why you took the pictures a certain way ,
Be a man and refund him back his money , do the honest thing , you don't want to be known for this , life is to short to have this over your head , I can bet right now everyone is looking at all your posts and trying to figure out who you are ,
It's only a shotgun and $400 is nothing , even less when you resell it for what it's really worth in that condition ,
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10-05-2017, 10:34 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenC68
Well well well. Let's tell the whole story here.
The gun is in excellent shape. Or at least was when it left my house. I sold it to you for $400 which was $100 off asking price. It's a timeless gun that will last generations.
That's clearly two guns you're taking picture off. The small rust on the top is negligible and the puts is not the gun i sold. As stated, it was more than fair to you. Have a good day
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
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Seriously??!'
Two guns with the same serial number??
Don't think so and BTW I have bought and sold hundreds of shotguns and dozens of Wingmasters and that one is in poor condition any day of the week!
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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10-05-2017, 10:50 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,187
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I am still having a hard time believing that someone would destroy any credibility that they had, just to sell a rusty scratched up shotgun.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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10-05-2017, 11:04 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
I am still having a hard time believing that someone would destroy any credibility that they had, just to sell a rusty scratched up shotgun.
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Me too. I think I just bought another one that is in better shape so now I can have that nice 870 Wingmaster that I can pass on to my boys and one I can shoot the heck out of without worrying about.
I would have rather only paid $300 for it but when I look at it that way I only lost about $100.
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10-05-2017, 11:14 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 826
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If your looking to just salvage this one and make a "social work" scattergun out of it, pull the wood and refinish with tung oil, send the metal away for ceracoating/barrel chop and toss it behind the truck seat.
That is pretty beat up, I'd be unimpressed for sure especially at the sell price.
__________________
Fight for the right to be free, never be owned.
-Manowar
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10-05-2017, 11:31 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,875
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What goes around comes around KURT,guys like that think there smart ,but karma is a bitch sometimes.
Last edited by JD848; 10-05-2017 at 11:51 PM.
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10-06-2017, 03:39 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: 204
Posts: 5,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma
From the description of the gun model in the ad, I would have walked away.
At least you actually got a Wingmaster Magnum and not an Express. Always make sure you get full and complete pictures before you buy.
WTS Remington Magnum Wingmaster Express 870
Excellent shape, pump shot gun that will never die. Comes with adjustable chock on the barrel (C , M, F). Asking $500 OBO
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I agree.
I saw that ad and didn't think the gun existed at all.
As far as getting ripped off on an Internet deal goes, at least you came away with something.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
"I like to quote my own quotes" ~ Dewey Cox
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10-06-2017, 06:01 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
The barrel is 24-1/2" to where it's attached and the bead is on the choke so once the choke is gone, so is the sight bead.
If anyone in the Edmonton area can give me a price on what it would take to fix this gun up for me I'd appreciate it. It'll need that rust removed as best as possible, the scratches in the stock fixed up and the poly choke removed and barrel threaded for removable chokes. Oh ya, and a sight bead installed.
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Jeepers with the bill,that is coming you might as well lightly clean the shotty and sell it, take that money and the money you would have spent on the reverd and buy a new shotty....
__________________
Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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10-06-2017, 06:03 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
Well, not much left to do other then laugh about it now. I feel really foolish now, but since I'm laughing about it a red flag should have gone up when he sent this pic of the shipping package.......
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Probably charged for the electrical tape too
__________________
Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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10-06-2017, 07:06 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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I'm guessing Ben didn't take the time to read and follow the Canada Post guide lines from the looks of the packaging since damage "might" of occurred during shipping.
This is stated in paragraph 3.22
https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/m...-e.asp#1389620
Even if shippage insurance was added to this package it most likely did not meet the Canadian Post standards under their requirements.
Unforchanet that full discloser was not given before the actual sale, it falls on both parties to act in good faith when purchasing goods that can't be inspected before the exchange of funds.
I for one offer full discloser on any and all sales since this is a practic of good faith.
If any buyer is not satisfied after the purchase of any thing form us,,, we refund them totally and move on from there.
It is the houner system to the buyer and more so to our selves.
I'm sure this will get sorted, unforchanet in all, but it keeps us keen on our own buying and selling ideas going forward.
Don
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10-06-2017, 07:38 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,576
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What pictures did he send you before you bought it?
Never mind I saw post 64
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10-06-2017, 08:02 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 131
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Ben should also know that his actions can be considered criminal Fraud:
Per the Criminal Code:
380. Fraud
380. (1) Every one who, by deceit, falsehood or other fraudulent means, whether or not it is a false pretence within the meaning of this Act, defrauds the public or any person, whether ascertained or not, of any property, money or valuable security or any service,
"Deceit" is "an untrue statement made by a person who knows that it is untrue, or has reason to believe that it is untrue, but makes it despite that risk, to induce another person to act on it, as if it were true, to that other person’s detriment."
"Falsehood" is a "deliberate lie".
"Dishonesty" is determined on an objective standard determined by what a reasonable person would consider dishonest. [1] Dishonesty can also include non-disclosure where a reasonable person would consider it dishonest.[2]
"Other fraudulent means" is a "term that covers more ground than either deceit or falsehood. It includes any other means, which are not deceit or falsehood, properly regarded as dishonest according to the standards of reasonable people" but include all other means that are "stigmatized as dishonest".
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10-06-2017, 08:20 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey
What ever happened to caveat emptor? Buyer beware?
Sorry Kurt you got boned but leave a bad rating and have a learning lesson.
Ads for sale are subject to puffery. You know, old lady drove, excellent condition, would drive it to Vancouver. Without inspecting it first hand you take your chances.
If Ben isn't the type to give you your money back you are pretty much hooped.
Once again caveat emptor.
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Look up the legal definition of "Caveat Emptor"
To be binding the add should have not had "Excellent Shape"...but "as is".
Then Caveat Emptor comes into play.
This guy definitely committed fraud and if Kurt took him to small claims he would most definitely win.
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10-06-2017, 08:26 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,449
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In my opinion, the right thing to do would be give Kurt a refund and let him keep the gun. But then again, I was raised to be honest.
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10-06-2017, 08:31 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtodrick
Look up the legal definition of "Caveat Emptor"
To be binding the add should have not had "Excellent Shape"...but "as is".
Then Caveat Emptor comes into play.
This guy definitely committed fraud and if Kurt took him to small claims he would most definitely win.
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Putting "as is" "where is" and all those little word bits does not absolve anyone of anything. Wives tales.
__________________
When in doubt, use full throttle. It may not improve the situation, but it will end the suspense.
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10-06-2017, 08:51 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 131
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Caveat emptor I would suggest does or would not factor in this circumstance even if "as is" was simply added to the Ad. His description of the shotgun as excellent condition is a material misrepresentation of it's condition and I would suggest that the scrutiny of a reasonable person to it's condition would not find it "excellent condition" as is evident from this thread
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10-06-2017, 09:02 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,485
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If I were Kurt and believed everything said to be true, I'd take him to court, report him to the police, and have Canada Post look into his shipping practices.
I'd also report him here: http://www.antifraudcentre-centreant.../index-eng.htm
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10-06-2017, 09:31 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cochrane, Alberta
Posts: 1,758
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Yup...I agree with the others, Kurt. String this guy up with any means necessary...small claims, Canada Post, whatever.
For him to claim it was excellent and send the conveniently angled pictures he did, this would be a slam-dunk case in small claims. Get your money back, plus court costs, and this liar will have this registered against him for the rest of his days.
Ben...you are a scammer. Full stop.
It amazes me how some guys are willing to sell their integrity for something as little as $400.
__________________
"You're gonna need a bigger boat!" - Martin Brody, 1975
"There seems to be alot of urinating in breakfast cereal around here." - Rackman, 2010
"It is true, there are dead beat dads out there, and there are thousands of dead beat moms too, who live off the efforts of good men trying to do the right thing." -KegRiver, 2011
"You have social media to thank for turning everyone into self-righteous know-it-alls.." -random internet dude, 2015
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10-06-2017, 11:12 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
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I'm not going waste my time pursuing legal action on the guy.
I got that sinking feeling in my gut when I opened the box and saw the rust. Maybe in his mind that is what "Excellent shape" looks like, but if that's the case he should have said "rusted and scratched, excellent shape". I told him that after I opened up the box and seeing the shotgun I figured it was worth $300 and even that was being generous. I gave him the option to do the return. He flat out refused. Maybe since he didn't see the rust he never seen the serial number in the picture he sent me either and thought he could get away with it. The way I see it I'm only out about $100, and I found a Wingmaster from another member that is in fact in great shape so now I'll have one to strap on the rack of the quad and one to keep to pass down to my boys.
I spent $30 on shipping it here, it would cost me another $30 to ship it back on top of the $400 I paid for the gun so even if I do the return it'll cost me $60 to have nothing.
Last edited by Kurt505; 10-06-2017 at 11:20 AM.
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10-06-2017, 12:05 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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$7 dollar Bush Hog time my friend.
Flat matted Army green paint, couple of Canadian Maple leaf template spray over stamps.
Even a Goose and Duck pattern to. Ha.
Kurt's New and improved Bush Masters custom one of a kind Bead Blaster.
Don't for get to sign it since it will be a collectors item some day.
Don
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10-06-2017, 01:14 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta
Posts: 1,058
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How is BenC still a member here after this blatant rip-off? At best condition was poor.
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10-06-2017, 01:21 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: In your personal space.
Posts: 4,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathewsArcher
How is BenC still a member here after this blatant rip-off? At best condition was poor.
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Anyone want to bet BenC has a really cool beard? I guessing this because no one else would be able to look themselves in the mirror for selling that piece of crap and trying to justify it after.
__________________
When in doubt, use full throttle. It may not improve the situation, but it will end the suspense.
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