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Old 07-16-2017, 11:40 PM
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Default I got lucky today-case separation


Luckily came out in one piece without blowing my face off
Apparently my sizing die isn't set as good as I thought. That was the fourth firing, .308 win


These are 3 firings, was going to load them too, but I guess I have brass to throw out


"Shuuuuuuussssshhhhh.

You can't post stuff like that, too many heads will explode."
Hillbillyreefer
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:46 PM
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Yikes!

Glad you're alright. Definitely a good idea to not use those same cases anymore and to check your setup as well. Such things are rare but here we get a reminder to always pay attention. Reloading is safe yet clearly, needs to be taken very seriously.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:23 AM
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Nothing wrong with your sizing die, just its adjustment.

When you setup your sizing die, make sure that your not bumping the shoulder all the way back.

Blacken the case neck and shoulder with a lighter or a sharpie. Screw your sizing die in a 1/4 turn at a time until the die juuuuuust touches the case shoulder when you run the case in.
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TangoKilo View Post
Nothing wrong with your sizing die, just its adjustment.

When you setup your sizing die, make sure that your not bumping the shoulder all the way back.

Blacken the case neck and shoulder with a lighter or a sharpie. Screw your sizing die in a 1/4 turn at a time until the die juuuuuust touches the case shoulder when you run the case in.

This
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TangoKilo View Post
Nothing wrong with your sizing die, just its adjustment.

When you setup your sizing die, make sure that your not bumping the shoulder all the way back.

Blacken the case neck and shoulder with a lighter or a sharpie. Screw your sizing die in a 1/4 turn at a time until the die juuuuuust touches the case shoulder when you run the case in.
Myself, I use the Sinclair Shoulder Bump Gauges. No guess work, you know exactly how much of a bump back you've re-sized your brass to.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadin...prod35265.aspx
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:40 PM
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Another vote for redding neck sizers. They are nice
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:51 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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I heard about the case neck bump back when needed.

A fellow at the shooting range mentioned that he neck sizes his his cases 3 too 4 shoots as he pays attention too how well the reloaded bullets chamber in his rifle.

If he feels they are not chambering correctly, then he uses his FL dies too bump the case shoulder back a few thousands,,, then back to neck sizing only...
That way he's not working the brass too much over its life.

annealing brass when needed is part of his routine, as he mentioned,,, "if we look after our brass, then it will last a long long time."

I'm new too this as I'm stepping up my game plan with 200 peaces of 30/06 Lapua brass.

I wish I knew this before wrecking my Hornady brass.

Thanks for putting up the thread as folks like me and many others can learn what we're doing wrong,,, it will save us these costs over the long haul.

Don
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitrdun View Post
Myself, I use the Sinclair Shoulder Bump Gauges. No guess work, you know exactly how much of a bump back you've re-sized your brass to.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadin...prod35265.aspx
Theoretically, one could use a dial gauge to determine the bump back. If one could feel where the case shoulder met the die then turn it in a few more thou...
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:23 AM
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Glad you made out ok. Forgive my ignorance but how would your sizing die cause that?
Whoops never mind it was answered.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:27 AM
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I've been oversizing the brass, so it stretches even more upon firing. It then gets thin near the case head


"Shuuuuuuussssshhhhh.

You can't post stuff like that, too many heads will explode."
Hillbillyreefer
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:47 AM
220 Swift 220 Swift is offline
 
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For your remaining brass you can use a RCBS Case master gauging tool. This identifies an unknown future casing head issue , where its thinning but you cant see it with your eyes alone.
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:54 AM
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Just curious.... What is the headstamp on the brass?
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:42 AM
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Glad you are okay bud! Thanks for not being so macho that you couldn't share a cautionary tale.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:22 AM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opalsasquatch View Post
I've been oversizing the brass, so it stretches even more upon firing. It then gets thin near the case head


"Shuuuuuuussssshhhhh.

You can't post stuff like that, too many heads will explode."
Hillbillyreefer
It is more likely a combination of over pressuring the brass, which forms it to a chamber that is likely over Saami Minimum, and sizing it with a FL die which cannot be set so it does not oversize the brass. It has been my experience that Federal brass holds much less powder than most other brands. A properly FL sized Federal Brass holds about 1.2 grains more powder than a Winchester brass in a 270 Winchester that I have been working on. This can result in a much higher pressure as the powder is comprssed in the Federal and not in the Winchester and this would show up on a chronograph. Aslo case dimensions may be smaller resulting in more case stretch.

It is commonly thought that setting a FL die to "Bump the Shoulder a few Thousands" will solve problems like incipient head separation that you experienced. However it only reduces case damage caused by excessive HS and not the excessive stretch at the neck, shoulder and base of a case. Neck Sizing solves this problem, except for the neck, but only if one does not overpressure the case so that it is sticky at the base.
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:08 PM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
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Originally Posted by lclund1946 View Post
It is more likely a combination of over pressuring the brass, which forms it to a chamber that is likely over Saami Minimum, and sizing it with a FL die which cannot be set so it does not oversize the brass. It has been my experience that Federal brass holds much less powder than most other brands. A properly FL sized Federal Brass holds about 1.2 grains more powder than a Winchester brass in a 270 Winchester that I have been working on. This can result in a much higher pressure as the powder is comprssed in the Federal and not in the Winchester and this would show up on a chronograph. Aslo case dimensions may be smaller resulting in more case stretch.

It is commonly thought that setting a FL die to "Bump the Shoulder a few Thousands" will solve problems like incipient head separation that you experienced. However it only reduces case damage caused by excessive HS and not the excessive stretch at the neck, shoulder and base of a case. Neck Sizing solves this problem, except for the neck, but only if one does not overpressure the case so that it is sticky at the base.
I had a once fired 223 Winchester factory round and an IVI once fired round and decided to measure them before and after FL sixing. I set my RCBS FL die to size the brass with Zero HS, as measured at 0.330" with a Hornady HS Gauge. They both measured 1.458" which is under the Saami Minimum 1.463". The Winchester brass had minimal stretch at the neck, shoulder and base datum compared to the IVI which was near or over minimum Sammi spec. The IVI case was bigger by about 0.005" at these three points. The sizing die reduced the base to 0.3735" on the IVI Brass but did not move the 0.0035 base on the Winchester brass. The necks and shoulders both came out the same after FL sizing. The interesting thing is that the trim length only increased by 0.003" on the Winchester brass while the IVI stretched 0.010". It is apparent that the Winchester brass will last much longer than the IVI in this situation.

I necked them down to my 20-223 EXTREME and found that the Winchester Brass trim length stayed the same at 1.750" while the IVI trim length came out at 1.765" or 0.015" longer. I know that both these brass hold the same amount of Powder and that a new Winchester brass , formed to 20-223, has only increased by about 0.006" on six firings moving a 40 V-Max at 3668+ so looks like it does not suffer from being FL sized each firing or being formed from once fired 223 brass.
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:39 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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My Lee Colliet dies showed up today, and I'll reset my FL dies a little less than 1/4" above the press bump.

I'll keep screwing the FL die down a 1/2 turn down at a time till I get those tight brass too chamber easy... Then lock it in place with about 2 thousands free space.

Awesome ideas on getting some extra life of of our brass.

Don
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:42 AM
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Federal brass


"Shuuuuuuussssshhhhh.

You can't post stuff like that, too many heads will explode."
Hillbillyreefer
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:01 AM
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One of the Big advantage to having a neck sizing die for your guns is it completely gets rid of this problem and you don't end up working the case itself more than it needs to be. I have 308 and 7 Rem Mag cases that have been neck sized a dozen times, and they still feed slick as can be. They also rarely require trimming. If they ever get a little sticky it is easy to FL size them but I would be unlikely to get 2 dozen firings on a case if I FL sized them every time.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opalsasquatch View Post
Federal brass


"Shuuuuuuussssshhhhh.

You can't post stuff like that, too many heads will explode."
Hillbillyreefer
Hmmm interesting. Last year i had a batch of federal brass that went at the third firing. Of 80 cases probably %30 of them had case head seperation or cracks with a mid book load shot in a m305 (yes the headspace has been checked) not saying loading practices are not to blame in your case just saying it may be partialy brass related.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by tikka250 View Post
Hmmm interesting. Last year i had a batch of federal brass that went at the third firing. Of 80 cases probably %30 of them had case head seperation or cracks with a mid book load shot in a m305 (yes the headspace has been checked) not saying loading practices are not to blame in your case just saying it may be partialy brass related.


Could be part of it. I know federal brass is not known to be the best quality(but it's so shiny!) Never had an issue with weatherby/Norma brass.
I'll probably order some lapua brass, and pay more attention to how much I'm sizing.

Anyone know what the internal case capacity difference might be between fed and lapua brass? I'll have to rework my loads up
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikka250 View Post
Hmmm interesting. Last year i had a batch of federal brass that went at the third firing. Of 80 cases probably %30 of them had case head seperation or cracks with a mid book load shot in a m305 (yes the headspace has been checked) not saying loading practices are not to blame in your case just saying it may be partialy brass related.
Semi autos are hard on brass regardless. Try lubing the brass in the semi with a very thin slick lubricant. Greatly increases case life. I like to wipe the cases with a rag sprayed with spray on lithium grease.
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by amosfella View Post
Semi autos are hard on brass regardless. Try lubing the brass in the semi with a very thin slick lubricant. Greatly increases case life. I like to wipe the cases with a rag sprayed with spray on lithium grease.
Im not going to lube my cases for shooting just because federal makes crap brass. Some of my ivi brass is getting on 5th and 6th firing with no issues so i will just stick to that and continue throwing away the federal junk.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opalsasquatch View Post
Federal brass


"Shuuuuuuussssshhhhh.

You can't post stuff like that, too many heads will explode."
Hillbillyreefer

OH-OH...

(I have 12 firings with my Lapua brass and still going strong.)

Case capacity shouldn't matter too much with .308. You shouldn't have to re do your development. Just tweak it.
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:21 AM
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I've had neck dies for almost every other cartridge I load for, just haven't picked one up for this rifle yet... It's on the list now. I wasn't going to as this is my main hunting rifle, and I've had feeding issues in the past with neck sizers

The weird thing is it didn't chamber nicely until I had the die set to where it is. Obviously it was still introducing too much headspace.

And with the nickel plating, it doesn't show up on the outside until it is really thin, but you can feel it on the inside with a wire even on cases that look perfect


"Shuuuuuuussssshhhhh.

You can't post stuff like that, too many heads will explode."
Hillbillyreefer
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:42 AM
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Get a piece of stiff wire and fashion a small hook at one end. You can use it to check your cases before reloading, just reach inside the case with it and see if a ring is starting.

What kind of rifle?
I would think that most any rifle chambered for the 308 would have pretty good protection for the shooter in the event of a case head separation, as long as your wearing shooting glasses then I wouldn't sweat the close call think too much.
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:55 PM
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Any recommendations on neck sizer dies? I've had standard RCBS neck dies, and one set of lee collet dies.
Wondering what bushing sizes I would need with lapua brass if I go Forster bushing neck dies. Kind of hard to know what to order without the brass in hand.

Or is neck bushing dies pointless if you don't turn your case necks?

Unexplored territory for me


"Shuuuuuuussssshhhhh.

You can't post stuff like that, too many heads will explode."
Hillbillyreefer
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:12 PM
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Just buy a Lee collet die. Bushing does will create a doughnut.
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
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Just buy a Lee collet die. Bushing does will create a doughnut.
Well not really with the dougnut but the part about the Lee Collet neck die being a good choice is spot on.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:53 PM
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Don't waste your money on a neck die. It's funny how many people reload but don't understand the importance of having all the correct tools to do so. This isn't meant to be an attack sorry if it comes across that way, just a great chance for some education. There are many companies that make case length comparitors-BUY ONE! Learn how to use it. Then you can properly set full length dies so that you are only bumping a couple thou. Trouble with only neck sizing is you don't find out your brass is too long until you are on the hunt or at the range. Glad you are ok, and hope you didn't gas cut a ring in your chamber.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:27 PM
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I set my dies to land on the shell holder and if i had your problem i would say its the chamber
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