hugo chavez just died

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

That is pretty simplistic thinking.

Sorry, I was trying to phrase it in a way you could understand.

Sorry again, cheap shot. Seriously, how is it simplistic? I acknowledged he could be, and probably is, popular with a substantial segment of the Venezuelan people, yet not be good for the country in the larger sense (Despots are like that sometimes). He had a dash of Peron in him. What's simplistic?

Or is the Canadian reference that irks you? Up until recently what position would instantly lose you the Maritimes at election time? Propose a cut to UIC (now EI) eligibility. See, short term benefit versus long term.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I suspect that many of the poor saw him as a protector and saviour, in much the same way the poor in Canada might see a politician who increased welfare benefits and subsidies (Layton?) versus one that actually delivered a functioning and growing economy that they might benefit from in the long-term (Harper?).

Very true. As a politician the real difficulty is being all inclusive when large fundamental philosophies are involved.

While you can't please everyone the great politicians should be able not unduly harm others.

I wonder if the small business class expanded or contracted under his dictatorship.

[TomCanuck]

Probably another CBC biopic in the offing.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

Probably another CBC biopic in the offing.

It'll be simple. They just have to dub the Layton movie in Spanish. Can't wait to hear Olivia Chiquita.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Again,

It is no different than our beloved 'western democracies'.

Extrajudicial killings, torture, Bradley Manning, Assange.

Law means little when you have power.

Nothing like my own country blowing me up with a hellfire missile from an 'unmanned aerial whatever they call it'.

Venezuela has done well. Nationalization in many of the poorer countries is needed in order to maintain control of their resources.

How can a poor country compete with enormous multinational corporations?

They can't. We can pretend that capitalism is a fair playing field; it is not.

Venezuela has been stable for sometime. They are not at war.

Class polarization is an issue, but it is not an uncommon one.

The west could certainly take some notes.

From what I can see they have a much more sustainable future than America.

I don't think stable is totally accurate but when you arrest opposition members it help him keep stable power. The under currents of the uprising is likely there still. Plus I don't see those on your arrest list in the same category. If you give away secrets you know you should not you should know the consequences. I don't see Obama arresting Palin or Macain or Trump.

[toomanyhobbies]

For the politically sophisticated people like bee guy ...

http://thediplomad.blogspot.ca/2013/...z-is-dead.html

A smart, savvy, unscrupulous street thug with natural political and leadership capabilities, Chavez had hoped to be the heir to the Castros' "Revolution." Instead, the old hermanos gallegos in Havana watch yet another politician, another pretender to their throne, shuffle off while they remain--thanks largely to Chavez's largesse with Venezuela's oil wealth which saved the Castro regime from the Castro regime. The parents bury their son.

Chavez was both an old style Big Man and a new style media star. He knew how to provoke the United States just enough to establish his street credentials with the left and the dopes in Hollywood, but not enough to share the fate of Manuel Noriega, Osama Bin-laden, or Saddam Hussein. He set up a classic peronista system of populist rhetoric, class warfare, and a tolerance for massive corruption by the inner circle. Using a skillful political ju-jitsu, he took advantage of Venezuela's democracy. He used the language and theater of nationalism, revolution, and populism to become Venezuela's most successful corruptocrat, all the while decrying Venezuela's propensity for electing corruptocrats. Proclaiming his love for democracy, he bit-by-bit dismantled Venezuela's democratic institutions and suppressed the opposition. While spouting a nationalist creed, he surrendered his country's sovereignty to the Castros, drug traffickers, and terrorists--all the while making sure that he did not damage his access to the US market and the dollars he needed to be the "anti-American" star of the left.

In short, his was a bravura performance which has left Venezuela awash in debt, crime, and poverty--the signature achievement of leftism everywhere in the world.

The writer is a retired American Foreign Service officer.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

It'll be simple. They just have to dub the Layton movie in Spanish. Can't wait to hear Olivia Chiquita.

Apparantly there is a sex scene, not in a massage parlor though

No word on a duck hunting scene, complete with .22 lr rifles

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

Apparantly there is a sex scene, not in a massage parlor though

No word on a duck hunting scene, complete with .22 lr rifles

oh yeah, old finger-on-the-trigger Layton. Forgot about that one....

wait, that nickname isn't in reference to the sex scene, is it?

[marxman]

chavez was no better than a capitalist running dog but if we dont have socialism when the economy matures, that is when population becomes stable and we dont have an economy based on everexpanding consumption our ponzi scheme will crash and almost everyone will be too broke to own anything except for our landlords. they will employ us as they see fit. feudalism will be back!

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by toomanyhobbies

For the politically sophisticated people like bee guy ...

http://thediplomad.blogspot.ca/2013/...z-is-dead.html


The writer is a retired American Foreign Service officer.

The writer is pretty bitter eh

I appreciated his use of facts interspersed throughout his rant.

Really made it informative and worth reading.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I don't think stable is totally accurate but when you arrest opposition members it help him keep stable power. The under currents of the uprising is likely there still. Plus I don't see those on your arrest list in the same category. If you give away secrets you know you should not you should know the consequences. I don't see Obama arresting Palin or Macain or Trump.

You don't arrest people that are on your team.

You arrest your opponents.

Arrgghh, I don't work under the assumption that the USA is a democracy, so that may confuse things.

[BeeGuy]

News Video about Chavez' death

[ganderblaster]

He called Bush the devil and Obama a clown at least the man had a pair. The watered down politicians in Alberta could take a lesson and actually stand up for what they think is right for the province. I dont agree with all his methods used to get things done but at least he tried to get things done!

[bobly]

Loose cannon for sure! No diplomacy, tact or finesse! Always shot his mouth off before his brain was engaged. Always outspoken. Hope the next leader learns from this man's blunders.

[chimpac]

Originally Posted by marxman

chavez was no better than a capitalist running dog but if we dont have socialism when the economy matures, that is when population becomes stable and we dont have an economy based on everexpanding consumption our ponzi scheme will crash and almost everyone will be too broke to own anything except for our landlords. they will employ us as they see fit. feudalism will be back!

Socialism is based on central control by a few with with a few ideas on how things should be done.
Socialism is no match for private enterprize that uses many ideas and finds the best way to do things. It has been proven. Even a little bit of socialsm drags a countrys economy down.

[seymourpats]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

It'll be simple. They just have to dub the Layton movie in Spanish. Can't wait to hear Olivia Chiquita.

Lol, good one . so true,

[Albertacoyotecaller]

You're not a socialist when you leave this earth with a personal wealth of $2 billion dollars. Unless your fellow country men each had the same.

[JimPS]

All CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: “We’ll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us.” The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be “communists,” but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow.

Abby Martin - Breaking the Myths on Hugo Chavez | Weapons of Mass Distraction

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y32y3...zmTfl&index=37

Jim

[Gabriel S.]

Haha

[marxman]

[QUOTE=chimpac;1878730]Socialism is based on central control by a few with with a few ideas on how things should be done.

no, in fact when capitalism stops expanding it will come to be based on central control by a few with a few ideas on how things should be done. you just took exactly what i said about capitalism and said it was socialism

[toomanyhobbies]

What are you, twelve years old? Marxism is evil. Go away troll!

[QUOTE=marxman;1880088]

Originally Posted by chimpac

Socialism is based on central control by a few with with a few ideas on how things should be done.

no, in fact when capitalism stops expanding it will come to be based on central control by a few with a few ideas on how things should be done. you just took exactly what i said about capitalism and said it was socialism

[marxman]

[QUOTE=toomanyhobbies;1880151]What are you, twelve years old? Marxism is evil. Go away troll!

i was not talking about marxism. thanks for the thoughtful post. it must be simple to live turning this way and that at signs

[MtnGiant]

Chavez was a great man in some peoples minds...when you have nothing its easy to worship.
Kinda like Hitler and Jesus to name a couple examples.

[chimpac]

[QUOTE=marxman;1880088]

Originally Posted by chimpac

Socialism is based on central control by a few with with a few ideas on how things should be done.

no, in fact when capitalism stops expanding it will come to be based on central control by a few with a few ideas on how things should be done. you just took exactly what i said about capitalism and said it was socialism

Tell us how private for profit enterprize (capitalism) transforms or expands to be controled by a few with few ideas like the government monopolys we have in Canada for health care and welfare.

There are a lot of private entreprenures with lots of good ideas to be transformed to a few.

[BeeGuy]

my favorite part of this thread is the "he's a commie dictator".

just like cnn taught ya