Whats wrong with boring calibers?

[Dick284]

Like the 308Win. even in a carbine with a 18.5" bbl. it will still throw factory 150's at 2650fps. 180's at 2500fps.

With the 150gr. bullet like a Nosler Partiton, sighted in 2.5" high at 100yds, your only 8.5" low at 300 yds and still packing over 1300 ftlbs of energy.

For over 90% of the hunting in Alberta that will lay some serious hurting on 95% of the game animals hunted in Alberta.

How about the venerable 7x57? (you can also say 7mm-08)

With a 140gr Nosler Partition bullet averaging 2800fps with some slightly warmer than factory reloads, out of a 22" bbl.

hmm lets see"
100yds + 2.5"
300yds -6" 1500ftlbs.

Again about the same sort of results catering to the 90%-95% of everything for Alberta

Oh ya the most important thing of all, these calibers wont loosen your dental work, or require a series of trips to your chiroporactor after a range session, and allow 150 or more loadings to a pound of powder.

Kinda makes you wonder why or how come, dont it.

[wayne]

Probably because this is the wide open west and to many people "flat" means "magnum" flat out to 4 and 500 yards, no compromise in that playing field except for those who can afford the time and take the effort to play with more obsolete calibers in less conventional guns. Too many standard 30.06 and 270 Winchester's take up the bulk of interest in gun caliber sales even today, which is weird to me too.

[Cowtown guy]

God I am a dummy. I read and reread this thing a bunch of times and for the life of me I couldn't get it. I took boring to mean making bigger instead of not interesting and couldn't figure out the post for the life of me.

I agree with you Dick. I used to think that flatter and faster was the way to go but I think my next rifle will be a 7/08. I am tired of the recoil. I can handle it, but why would I want to?

Good post.

[elkhunter11]

Dick,I am surprised to see you of all people, refer to the 308win and 7x57 as calibers,when they are in fact cartridge designations.
And for the record,I do own a 308win.

[Copidosoma]

Love my .308.

Nothing boring about it.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by wayne

Probably because this is the wide open west and to many people "flat" means "magnum" flat out to 4 and 500 yards, no compromise in that playing field except for those who can afford the time and take the effort to play with more obsolete calibers in less conventional guns. Too many standard 30.06 and 270 Winchester's take up the bulk of interest in gun caliber sales even today, which is weird to me too.

For flat try this.

A hum drum 270Win, loaded with 130gr. Accubonds doing 3050fps out of a factory 22" bbl.

100yds +2.5"
350yds -8.2"
370 yds -10.5" 1500ftlbs.

Add in a rangefinder, and a ballistic turret, or a set of mildots, some knowledge of wind doping, and a bit of actual shooting skill. It is conceivable to make this rifle a true 500yd game getter.

But, there is likely about only 5 to 7% of all hunters in Alberta that could ever benifit from all of this anyways.

Then there is being able to consistantly make it happen at ranges beyond 300yds under field conditions.

I wont even go past the last statement, over this.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Dick,I am surprised to see you of all people, refer to the 308win and 7x57 as calibers,when they are in fact cartridge designations.
And for the record,I do own a 308win.

Ya but it would'nt fit in the title block, and 99% of the guys on here would'nt know the diffrerence anyways.

When in Rome, my friend.

[honda450]

Greatest thing about a 308 is bullet selection.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by honda450

Greatest thing about a 308 is bullet selection.

Actually if your reloading there are just as many bullet weights. available in 7mm.

0.308" (30 cal):
100
110
125
130
135
140
150
155
165
168
170
175
180
190
200
220
240
250

18 total

0.284" (7mm)
100
110
115
120
125
130
135
139
140
145
150
154
160
162
168
170
175
195

18 total

Of course this is for jacketed bullets.

[FallAirFever]

I hear ya Dick! I have been considering a new gun for myself and keep going back to the boring old .270win, which I shoot now and the .308win. I will admit that the 270wsm does intrest me a bunch as well. But what I am taking into consideration is that in a few years my boys will be getting thier first rifles and what a better way to get them shooting than for all 3 of us to shoot the same cartridge and I can do some light loads to start the boys off. Finding a couple of decent used guns that I can modify the stock on for my small shooters in a 308 or 270 will be easier than some of the newer cartidges, and cheaper I think. Plus I know from experiance the .270 get the job done as I am sure the .308 will too.

[honda450]

I have both Dick 708 and 308. Just saying large variety. I was not comparing them.

[Traps]

What is wrong with the normal calibers - nothing at all they are great in fact. Two things come to mind though, one they are boring and we'd have nothing to talk about, two hunting parts beyond Alberta.

[CNP]

Last two purchases were 7mm08 and 25.06. Last sold was 30.06 lightweight. Trading in my pain for pleasure. Just say NO to magnums......they are not sexy.

[honda450]

708 and 2506 ehntr? You out of your mind?

[Okotokian]

I dunno Dick, I like my .270 Win and .303 just fine, but I have to say that my .22WMR performs the hell out of any boring .22 I've ever shot.

[Sheepcrazyguy]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Like the 308Win. even in a carbine with a 18.5" bbl. it will still throw factory 150's at 2650fps. 180's at 2500fps.

With the 150gr. bullet like a Nosler Partiton, sighted in 2.5" high at 100yds, your only 8.5" low at 300 yds and still packing over 1300 ftlbs of energy.

For over 90% of the hunting in Alberta that will lay some serious hurting on 95% of the game animals hunted in Alberta.

How about the venerable 7x57? (you can also say 7mm-08)

With a 140gr Nosler Partition bullet averaging 2800fps with some slightly warmer than factory reloads, out of a 22" bbl.

hmm lets see"
100yds + 2.5"
300yds -6" 1500ftlbs.

Again about the same sort of results catering to the 90%-95% of everything for Alberta

Oh ya the most important thing of all, these calibers wont loosen your dental work, or require a series of trips to your chiroporactor after a range session, and allow 150 or more loadings to a pound of powder.

Kinda makes you wonder why or how come, dont it.

I have a 7X57 built by Ralf Martini when he was still at FSJ area. I don't use it much but it's a great cartridge. I agree there's a lot of great old cartridges out there.

[MountainTi]

And with the smaller and lighter case sizes of the .308, 7/08 ect..., you can fit even more of them in your purse

[honda450]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

And with the smaller and lighter case sizes of the .308, 7/08 ect..., you can fit even more of them in your purse

In fact we carry less. The first shot counts.

[300Ultra]

Funny thing that. I am thinking I am going to add the 257 Roberts to the rack this year. I got a 17 Fireball last year in the limited edition wood, stainless fluted model 700. Great gopher gun: cheap to load, powder miser, explosive rodent action, 1/2 M.O.A. accurate, easy on the recoil, lightning fast.

I killed 9 animals last year, 3 with the 300 ultra, and the rest with a 270 WSM. I have been re-thinking that the low end is power will do the job. I like the idea of going EASY.

I successfully shot an antelope at 497 yards with the 7MM rem Mag a couple of years ago with a 139 grain SST. It's doable, but really it was irresponsible. I was lucky. Howling Brooks wind, and a lot of grass between the muzzle and that goat.

Starting to feel the need to do easy, gentler, with a little less bang and bash. Is that geezerdom approaching? Or the next step in the hunting hierarchy pyramid?

300...er... 257.

[Tommygun]

I heard somewhere that certain bullets require around 1800ft/lbs of energy to expand. obviously I would like to shoot much closer than 300 yards but ocaasionaly that is not the case. I wonder if 1500ft/lbs at 300yds would be enough to expand a nosler partition? Im sure the bullet would still expand, but would it compromise the potental damage done?

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by Sheepcrazyguy

I have a 7X57 built by Ralf Martini when he was still at FSJ area. I don't use it much but it's a great cartridge. I agree there's a lot of great old cartridges out there.

This is a bit off-topic, but worth sharing.

Met Ralf at his Cranbrook smithy last fall as he was tweaking and restocking a friend's rifle. He has two other smiths working for him now.

His shop smells and looks good: Exotic stock blanks piled onto shelves, there's metal turning and boring machines, hand tools on the benches, client rifles in the vises being prepped for Africa or a Dall sheep hunt...all in all a busy but well organized place.

I asked about the Martini-Hagen action and Ralf very kindly reached for a small box and assembled one right there before my eyes, from 'in the white' parts. A single pin to keep it together. What a graceful and clever mechanism, hand fitted, tight but slick-smooth solid. Just the right trigger feel too. I think they run to somewheres well over $3k, depending on finish work - well worth the money if you have it.

[elkhunter11]

I heard somewhere that certain bullets require around 1800ft/lbs of energy to expand. obviously I would like to shoot much closer than 300 yards but ocaasionaly that is not the case. I wonder if 1500ft/lbs at 300yds would be enough to expand a nosler partition? Im sure the bullet would still expand, but would it compromise the potental damage done?
Reply With Quote

Actually most bullet manufacturers list an optimum velocity range for the best performance with a given bullet.I haven't seen any manufacturer list a specific energy level.

http://www.nosler.com/?p=3&bullet=3

From that link.

Minimum Impact Velocity: 1800 fps
Maximum Impact Velocity: Unlimited

[catnthehat]

boring, old school cartridges just plain work, that is why some figure they are boring!
Cat

[Cal]

I have a hard time seeing myself buying anything but boring old chamberings. 95% of all the game I have killed could have been cleanly taken with that most plane jane of all calibers, the 30-30. Putting up with more recoil than I am comfortable with just doesnt make any sense to me, I dont fall into that 5% that can push even a 30-06 or 270 win to its fullest capabilitys and I admit it, the funny thing is that at the range I find I shoot just as good or better than alot of guys that brag about 400+ yard shots. Go figure

[Copidosoma]

Originally Posted by Copidosoma

Love my .308.

Nothing boring about it.

Having said that...

One of these days (probably not for a long while though) I'm going to get a .375 Ruger or a .416 Rigby. Not that I need it or anything.

[wayne]

Nothing wrong with boring old effective calibers other than the fact they are boring regardless of how well people shoot them to whatever great or short target distance. I'm sure people can shoot a new cartridge just as ineffectively. The 270 WSM became old and boring to me quickly and got turfed. But before Winchester's great, new idea I hadn't bought a new rifle in ten years. Now the 7WSM is still new and not boring to me. My rifle line-up still changes due to new cartridge introductions. What's not to like about the new 338 Marlin Express? The 308 Marlin Express likely has not caught on probably due to the fact there are too many boring 308 calibers on the market, but the 338 ME may just be the ultimate short range/flat shooting/long range brush lever gun cartridge now available and there are some in Canada.

[Silverado]

Remember when Ali said "I'm the greatest fighter... of all time!"

He got that from the 30-06.

[elkhunter11]

Remember when Ali said "I'm the greatest fighter... of all time!"

He got that from the 30-06.

Then he was beaten by Leon Spinks who was virtually an unknown.
In the same way, many new cartridges offer advantages over the 30-06.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Then he was beaten by Leon Spinks who was virtually an unknown.
In the same way, many new cartridges offer advantages over the 30-06.

Then returned to beat the livin' crap outta Spinks!!
The "new " cartridges offer nothing OVER the '06, just DIFFERENT stuff.

Most shooters I know who use the newest gear still kill their animals within the range that an '06 would do it as well.

I have lots of different calibers because I like them, and especialy wildcats, but I opt to hunt with a cartridge that is almost as old as the 30'06.
Cat

[eric2381]

Anybody play with a 8x57? I got one this winter, and I'm working up loads for it right now. Seems to be pleasant to shoot and easy on components as well. I got 700 Hornady 195gr. IL with it, I think it'll be a good combo.