How far is to far ?

[nekred]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Never said anything like that. Just I would rather practice out further as I feel it make closer shots seem easier.

Your whole golf analogy is pretty off not even comparable really unless I had a recurve for my short game and a 40lb compound for my middle and a 80 for long game maybe.

But lets flip that around what good is it to putt 10 yards really well if you can only drive it 20 yards? Yet if you can swing really hard and drive a ball 300 yards straight and consistent you should be able to "take some off" and have even better control.

I'm not saying your way off base here and yes getting basics down is very important, but I am just in disagreement with you saying long range practice doesn't make you a better archer.

Just saying practice what you play!..... otherwise it is useless.... Think of it this way if you are a pin shooter..... you use the 70 yard pin all the time which is the bottom one and is orange....

Then the moment of truth comes and animal is at 50 yards..... what does your subconscious do?

It puts your 70 yard pin on and lets fly.... and you post in here how you missed and I was right....

OR if you are practicing on a life size 3D target.... and now it is at 50 yards.... your brain goes no way that is much closer and easier than that so you use 40 pin and hit it high and not retrieve.....

Again practice what you play.... shoot the majority of your arrows there, shoot a few to determine your limitations, but if you don't like my analogy choose a better one!...

how about a pitcher.... in baseball by your analogy they should have bullpens further distances then the mound so pitcher has to throw higher and harder at what "appears" to be a smaller target.... so that when he is actually pitching he thinks... WOW the strike zone is like a barn.... and then throws over it!....

Go and shoot a dime sized target at 20 yards and let me know how many times you hit it vs. a tim hortons lid at 50....

Which is an easier shot?

Our hunting arrows do not have the FOC to be shooting at very long distances thus why I maid differences between clubs in golf.....

Look at 90m FITA.... what do their arrows look like they are designed for long distance shooting....

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by nekred

Just saying practice what you play!..... otherwise it is useless.... Think of it this way if you are a pin shooter..... you use the 70 yard pin all the time which is the bottom one and is orange....

Then the moment of truth comes and animal is at 50 yards..... what does your subconscious do?

It puts your 70 yard pin on and lets fly.... and you post in here how you missed and I was right....

OR if you are practicing on a life size 3D target.... and now it is at 50 yards.... your brain goes no way that is much closer and easier than that so you use 40 pin and hit it high and not retrieve.....

Again practice what you play.... shoot the majority of your arrows there, shoot a few to determine your limitations, but if you don't like my analogy choose a better one!...

how about a pitcher.... in baseball by your analogy they should have bullpens further distances then the mound so pitcher has to throw higher and harder at what "appears" to be a smaller target.... so that when he is actually pitching he thinks... WOW the strike zone is like a barn.... and then throws over it!....

Go and shoot a dime sized target at 20 yards and let me know how many times you hit it vs. a tim hortons lid at 50....
Which is an easier shot?

Our hunting arrows do not have the FOC to be shooting at very long distances thus why I maid differences between clubs in golf.....

Look at 90m FITA.... what do their arrows look like they are designed for long distance shooting....

Using the proper scale would be a toonie at 50.
And practice what you play in my case and areas I hunt there are a lot more 50's than 20's.

If I was shooing 3 spot I would practice at 20 (or 18m) but I'm not I practice at all ranges and beyond for a few reasons I find I aim smaller myself and it helps with distance estimation and its more fun.

Ill practice out to wherever and you practice at 20 to each their own. Practice at any distance is better than none at all.

[nekred]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

Using the proper scale would be a toonie at 50.
And practice what you play in my case and areas I hunt there are a lot more 50's than 20's.

If I was shooing 3 spot I would practice at 20 (or 18m) but I'm not I practice at all ranges and beyond for a few reasons I find I aim smaller myself and it helps with distance estimation and its more fun.

Ill practice out to wherever and you practice at 20 to each their own. Practice at any distance is better than none at all.

Fair enough!... not going to argue anymore!... what you say about practicing at ALL distances is very important if you are going to play at all the distances, and then go beyond to establish limitations...

BTW I would love to see someone hit a toonie every shot at 50.... I know I can hit a dime at 10 for 30 shots in a row on many occasions....

Did not realize a toonie's radius was 5 times large than a dime's you learn something every day!....

[Kurt505]

I'll shoot out to 120yds if I feel like I can make the shot, maybe further if it's a monster. Animal won't get so spooked if it doesn't hear the bow go off.

[nekred]

If you feel like or know!?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by nekred

If you feel like or know!?

Feel like, there's never such a thing as know.

[nekred]

Ok then feel like can be 10% PK or 90%PK

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by nekred

Fair enough!... not going to argue anymore!... what you say about practicing at ALL distances is very important if you are going to play at all the distances, and then go beyond to establish limitations...

BTW I would love to see someone hit a toonie every shot at 50.... I know I can hit a dime at 10 for 30 shots in a row on many occasions....

Did not realize a toonie's radius was 5 times large than a dime's you learn something every day!....

You said dime at 20 therefore 50/20=2.5 you don't think a toonie is 2.5 times larger than a dime?

Using your theory if you practiced at 50 as much as to do at 10 or 20 you should be able to hit a toonie 30 times in a row......you seem to have the theory to become a professional archer......look out Levi Morgan Nekred is on his way up!!

[reddeerhunter]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I'll shoot out to 120yds if I feel like I can make the shot, maybe further if it's a monster. Animal won't get so spooked if it doesn't hear the bow go off.

Hope young kids are biting off a chunk of this.
Not looking to argue Kurt, I respect a lot of things you have posted over the years. But this is not practical. My feelings anyhoooo.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by nekred

Ok then feel like can be 10% PK or 90%PK

I'm not sure what PK means?

Every archer, and every situation is different. I know people who shouldn't shoot over 25yds under perfect conditions.

How fast is too fast? How heavy is too heavy? Would you expect everyone to drive an F1 course at 220mph? Some people have the skills to drive more responsively than others. Would you expect everyone to bench press 540lbs? I know a guy that actually does, but I'd never do it.

I'm not directing these questions at you, just in general. I think the question of how far is too far is impossible to answer even if you are referring to yourself. Like an F1 driver, if you ask them how fast is too fast on Tuesday's race, it might be a different answer than Friday's race.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by reddeerhunter

Hope young kids are biting off a chunk of this.
Not looking to argue Kurt, I respect a lot of things you have posted over the years. But this is not practical. My feelings anyhoooo.

Ok, might have stretched it a bit for my personal skills, but I know people who have made the shot. I'm trying to make a bit of a point here.

I have hit and lost 1 deer in my 29yrs of bowhunting, and that was at 19yds. I killed a coyote at 96yds. The only other animals I've hit and lost with a bow are chickens.

Being able to put your arrow where you want is the key, after that, weather conditions and being able to read the animals body language are the only two other factors that matter. Experience and skill are the two things that give you the true answer.

[backyard]

if you are sighted into 50 yards only then 60 and up is too far

[gman1978]

Lots of good advice here. The last thing you want is a hunting partner that flings zingers at long ranges and takes marginal shots. There will be many nights on the flashlight looking for a spot of blood. It is so important to only take shots that you have the skill to take. It really sickening to hear some of the story's out there. I am sure you have all heard them. I think the experienced bow hunters owe to the new guys to stress how important taking the right shot is.

[H380]

Originally Posted by gman1978

Lots of good advice here. The last thing you want is a hunting partner that flings zingers at long ranges and takes marginal shots. There will be many nights on the flashlight looking for a spot of blood. It is so important to only take shots that you have the skill to take. It really sickening to hear some of the story's out there. I am sure you have all heard them. I think the experienced bow hunters owe to the new guys to stress how important taking the right shot is.

I agree gman , there is a lot of great advice given on this thread and yes the guys with experience need to stress to new hunters the importance of taking the right shot . The problem as I see it is the fact that way too many new hunters have seen all the shows , watched all the videos and tend to live in a "PRIMOS WORLD " , where every animal shot at is recovered and none are lost , despite the range and conditions of the shot . Can't tell me that all the pros never lose an animal because of a poor choice , they just don't show it . The concern I have is that far too many of the newbs don't listen to the " old guys " .. sad to say the least .

[reddeerhunter]

Just 2 nights ago, my boss' elk had a slight quarter to, arrow hit more angle than anticipated, took 100yds to see first blood and he only made it 200yds, but I definitely had the sick feeling. We all know the feeling, if you have lost an animal once, this is what tells you what ideal range is. Oh, and on the topic, a magnus stinger buzzcut completely dissolved in the elk in the process. Nothing but the thread remained on arrow. Shot was 40yds.
Good posts guys.

[elkchaser]

I agree with most opinions and advice give. Iam glad to see that I am not as out to lunch thinking these guys are over extending way past there limits I originally posted I have a 60 yd max I wanted to add that at 60 i would only be confident shooting at a Moose or elk under ideal conditions . A deer 40yds is about it . I passed a buck last weekend at 24 just because of a few twigs and branches . Should I have shot ? Chances are I would have probably got him . But I wasn't 100% so no go . I have seen guys make what you think are great shot,s and still have a hell of a tracking job or even lose animals . I am still wondering what kind of energy is even left after 80 to 120yds and should you even be thinking about it ? Will it break bone ? Seems like to many things can change in the few seconds it takes that arrow to get there even if think you where a crack shot . The other point I didn't add was one of these hunter,s had his 11yr old son in tow that's bowhunting next fall . What is the kid learning now ???

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkchaser

I agree with most opinions and advice give. Iam glad to see that I am not as out to lunch thinking these guys are over extending way past there limits I originally posted I have a 60 yd max I wanted to add that at 60 i would only be confident shooting at a Moose or elk under ideal conditions . A deer 40yds is about it . I passed a buck last weekend at 24 just because of a few twigs and branches . Should I have shot ? Chances are I would have probably got him . But I wasn't 100% so no go . I have seen guys make what you think are great shot,s and still have a hell of a tracking job or even lose animals . I am still wondering what kind of energy is even left after 80 to 120yds and should you even be thinking about it ? Will it break bone ? Seems like to many things can change in the few seconds it takes that arrow to get there even if think you where a crack shot . The other point I didn't add was one of these hunter,s had his 11yr old son in tow that's bowhunting next fall . What is the kid learning now ???

First off, there's no such thing as just a few twigs and branches. A wide open shot at 80yds is much more likely one I'll take before a 40yd shot through the woods.

For your next question, the one about kinetic energy, although I only have physics 20, I can tell you that the kinetic energy left in an arrow shot from a 70lb compound bow with a 400gr arrow will have more than enough umph to kill a moose, and will even do a pass thru if you slip it thru the ribs.

I bought my first compound bow when I was 14, it was 28" draw and 70lbs so I am only speaking on these specs as a minimum. I should add that at that time my bow was shooting a whopping 180fps, I can only guess my arrow was probably around 540gr though.

[elkchaser]

There is such a thing as as few twigs and branches ! I just thought I would pass a chancy shot and wait for a better one . Personal ethic,s are different for everyone . I just don't like to chance shots . besides if your willing to to shoot out to 120 +for a monster I think you need to work on your stalking skills or use a gun . Kurt50

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by SBE2

I would think at 100 yds the travel time would be longer than 1 second for sure. Anybody confirm, with say an average bow of 280fps and average arrow weight.

I assumed an average 300fps which equates to 100 yards in one second. Maybe a little too fast but the slower the arrow the bigger the time gap between sound of string and arrow hitting. Those Mathews guys have a hell of a hard time at those longer shots - I've seen guys with better bows hear the Mathews shot, take a look at what the hunter was shooting at and then shoot the deer themselves, all before the "Mathews arrow" reaches the target.

For those that want to try that themselves just remember to keep an eye out for the Mathews arrow whilst you are field dressing because you know it can arrive any time (except soon).

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkchaser

There is such a thing as as few twigs and branches ! I just thought I would pass a chancy shot and wait for a better one . Personal ethic,s are different for everyone . I just don't like to chance shots .

Well if you feel it's not ethical to shoot past 60yds, but ethical to shoot thru a few twigs and branches, we obviously have a difference of opinion.

Good luck to you.

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Well if you feel it's not ethical to shoot past 60yds, but ethical to shoot thru a few twigs and branches, we obviously have a difference of opinion.

Good luck to you.

I think he got you there Elkchaser.

[elkchaser]

Did you not read the post ? I passed the shot due to branches !

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by elkchaser

Did you not read the post ? I passed the shot due to branches !

Bejesus, you don't expect us to read your posts do you? If you do then you need to make shorter comments.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkchaser

Did you not read the post ? I passed the shot due to branches !

I read your post, and I understood it. I think you may have misunderstood my post.

A few twigs and branches should be a bigger determining factor than yardage, to a certain extent. I have personally witnessed on more than one occasion a relatively "chip" shot turn out way off by a simple little twig that was unnoticeable at the time of the shot, but very apparent once the shot was made.

Quite a few years back I watched Chuck Adams use a bluff of bush as a blind and lobbed an arrow over it into the vitals of a muley at about 80yds. Not only was the distance he shot impressive, but the fact he was totally aware of the arrow flight path he was confident enough to use the bush itself as camouflage for the shot.

What I'm trying to say is, a few twigs and branches are more of a risk than yardage. That's why I say there is no such thing as just a few twigs and branches. I would rather take a shot at 80yds through a field than 40yds through bush if given the option.

So to answer your question, how far is too far?


It totally depends.

[elkchaser]

Well I am not here to argue shots . I just wanted opinion,s on what the most feel is a comfortable ethical range . I am not a pro or proclaimed super archer just a average guy that enjoys the time in the bush pursuing game . I just hate to hear or see game wounded and not recovered . I also feel that there is a lot of hype on tv and between hunters in general that is almost portraying long distance shooting as the inthing or norm . I have no problem with guys practising as far as thay want on targets ,but that's where it should stay . Personally I am really impressed when I hear someone stalked into under 20 yds for a kill shot . Now that's hunting to me . Just my 2 cents

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by elkchaser

Well I am not here to argue shots . I just wanted opinion,s on what the most feel is a comfortable ethical range . I am not a pro or proclaimed super archer just a average guy that enjoys the time in the bush pursuing game . I just hate to hear or see game wounded and not recovered . I also feel that there is a lot of hype on tv and between hunters in general that is almost portraying long distance shooting as the inthing or norm . I have no problem with guys practising as far as thay want on targets ,but that's where it should stay . Personally I am really impressed when I hear someone stalked into under 20 yds for a kill shot . Now that's hunting to me . Just my 2 cents

Well said...fling...what the heck was that....fling...Hank we better get the heck out of here it's raining sharp thingies, one just got stuck in my arse, but if we go to the other quarter there are boom sticks, remember how I lost my antler last year, let's just bugger off to the crazy ladies quarter section, she walks around naked but feeds us...at least until the flinging of sharp thingies and the booming noise goes away...Hank, you do look funny with that sharp thingy sticking out of your arse...shut-up, oh look here comes the naked woman with a bucket off oats.

[SCHOOCH]

Furthest shot i have ever taken was 7 years ago at 42 yds.....even after practicing out to 60. I have passed up many animals at the 50 range just because its a self impossed decision to do so. The reason i practice to 60 really is because in my mind it does make my 40 yds easier.....that being said most of my practice is from 20 yds to 40 yds, i do understand the thought of why practice what you will not shoot but it works very well for me and i guess thats all that matters.

[Sledhead71]

I have the utmost respect for the game I pursue and treat every piece of stainless as if it is my last and the cost was 10K So, marginal does not cut it in my world and keep thing realistic as possible.

Lost one that jumped the string at 18 yards, heartbroken as my stainless found the Bermuda Triangle when he dropped down.

Don't think I have sent one past 30 yards on any critter.

[Kurt505]

Practicing at long range will not make you a better shot, but what it will do is make you aware of how good you actually are. It'll either boost your confidence or bruise your ego, depending on what your groups look like.

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Practicing at long range will not make you a better shot, but what it will do is make you aware of how good you actually are. It'll either boost your confidence or bruise your ego, depending on what your groups look like.

Practice at any range will make you better!
I find long range practice quite enlightening. It teaches you how much or how little cross winds affect arrow flight. How much quicker an arrow drops past 50 yards. How much a clean shot and follow through affects arrow flight. All things at 20 or 40 yards don't seem like a big deal when you have a 4 inch group.