Hunter Check In???

Couleestalker · #1 10-21-2010, 09:15 PM

Seen F&W Hunter Check In signs in and around Foremost. Anybody know what they're up to?

Rackmastr · #2 10-21-2010, 09:30 PM

Most likely check-in stations for antelope season....they measure bucks, take a tooth, record information, etc.

Pathfinder76 · #3 10-21-2010, 09:35 PM

That's exactly what it is.

Couleestalker · #4 10-21-2010, 09:45 PM

Is it voluntary? Just bucks or non trophy aswell?

flyguyd · #5 10-22-2010, 05:10 AM

It was when we were drawn in 2008 and as a reward the guy will score your goat

packhuntr · #6 10-22-2010, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyguyd

It was when we were drawn in 2008 and as a reward the guy will score your goat

The score part is no reward...? Its part of a study where the biologists are trying to determine the age with which Alberta antelope have reached maturity. As it stands, they (Kim Morton) whole heartedly believe that our antelope are fully mature and produce the best B&C scores at the age of 3.5 years old. They are trying to justify giving out the unbelievably high numbered, mass slaughter tags they do.

Is it a joke, yes it is. These pronghorn that are fully matured and score in Alberta need 5.5 to 8.5 years,,, hence there being very few net B&C antelope killed in Alberta. Its called pizz poor management and absolutely zero comprehension ability.

I heard from a mighty good source that the check station being discussed here, checked about 15 antelope on opening day. The SRD staff was under constant fire about the lack of an antelope herd, and they apparently threw the ACA under the bus every time, stating that its the ACA that does the counts.

Sounds like a tough hunt down there, a 72 inch antelope is a big antelope and the average is way down from a 75 inch avg last year,,, as well as a herd decrease of near 70%. Sounds like about the shape the rest of the province's herd is in,,, exactly.

Sounds to me like we need some people in SRD and the ACA that,

A. Know how to count.
B. Do not extrapolate data.
C. Are hired with requirements of more than just experience in sales, (yes they do love selling tags)

gramps73 · #7 10-22-2010, 07:54 AM

Well said Pack,
I remember reading that the numbers were down and the kid ratio was down alot and yet there were undersubscribed tags this year.go figure..

ishootbambi · #8 10-22-2010, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gramps73

Well said Pack,
I remember reading that the numbers were down and the kid ratio was down alot and yet there were undersubscribed tags this year.go figure..

certainly some truth in your post pack, but the info package i received said the avarage age of goats taken over the years was 4.5, not 3.5 and it didnt say that was a mature buck.....just that it was the average. also B&C gross score ranged from 60 to just over 85 with an average score of 70, not 75. that wasnt just last years average either....it was over the last 7 years i think?

to be sure, 4.5 years is not a fully mature buck in his prime. thta would be like a 20 year old man or so. yes its an adult, but it has growing to do yet. as for alberta being a bit of a low producer for B&C, being on the edge of their range has an impact due to the more harsh climate and shorter growing season. im not convinced genetics are as good here either, but with other factors involved its tough to say. like everything else though, too many tags means more hunters get to hunt, but they are hunting smaller bucks......just like the mule deer.....and the sheep.......and the elk......alberta simply does not manage for trophy quality period.

as for the undersubscribed tags....that was non trophy only was it not?

regarding the younguns.......i have seen VERY few fawns around this year. that will be glaring in a few years.

packhuntr · #9 10-22-2010, 08:51 AM

The numbers I stated were not read from thier mail out, they are numbers heard by me directly from an SRD biologist. The rest pertaining to average size that I stated, is from folk in the business of killing the biggest of the big antelope. Yes, its a wreck in this province right now, and alot of folk believe that ramping up harvest rates does nothing to help the situation. Do I think we need to manage for trophy quality in Alberta with any species,,,? NO. I do however think we should manage for healthy herd structure, and big animals will be a natural byproduct of that.
Bambi, you state that you dont believe that we have good genetics here. Why do you say that? We have some of the biggest antelope killed on the northern plains when they are allowed to live. Game managers would have you believe that our antelope peak out at 3.5 to 4.5 years old. You believe that one??? If you do, tell me, with your expansive knowledge of genetics then, if there are B&C antelope killed at the ages presented by this study and its the Alberta norm, what would our antelope be capable of at the ages of 6.5 to 8.5. We, with management would be killing new world records in Alberta with every antelope that was allowed to live. Now anyone with a brain knows that just isnt going to happen, we arent Arizona, but what we do have is some slammer genetics, weve proven it, and with proper HERD MANAGMENT we probuably arent far from an Alberta antelope cracking 90 inch. But, that will never happen, too many people at the helm that either dont have a clue what the condition our herds are in, or believe everything they hear. The issue with this study,,, and I cant speak on it, though there are afew people that can, is that old mature antelope are not being aged as such, data is inaccurate, and justifications are being conjured up and created to keep everyone believing that killing mass #s of albertas antelope out of current unhealthy herds is indeed healthy and will continue to be considered as such. Its awfully easy to do this, all while cutting back funding, work load etc etc, dogging the issues, if everyone affected doesnt believe there is an issue. Do you believe that?

ishootbambi · #10 10-22-2010, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packhuntr

The numbers I stated were not read from thier mail out, they are numbers heard by me directly from an SRD biologist. The rest pertaining to average size that I stated, is from folk in the business of killing the biggest of the big antelope. Yes, its a wreck in this province right now, and alot of folk believe that ramping up harvest rates does nothing to help the situation. Do I think we need to manage for trophy quality in Alberta with any species,,,? NO. I do however think we should manage for healthy herd structure, and big animals will be a natural byproduct of that.
Bambi, you state that you dont believe that we have good genetics here. Why do you say that? We have some of the biggest antelope killed on the northern plains when they are allowed to live. Game managers would have you believe that our antelope peak out at 3.5 to 4.5 years old. You believe that one??? If you do, tell me, with your expansive knowledge of genetics then, if there are B&C antelope killed at the ages presented by this study and its the Alberta norm, what would our antelope be capable of at the ages of 6.5 to 8.5. We, with management would be killing new world records in Alberta with every antelope that was allowed to live. Now anyone with a brain knows that just isnt going to happen, we arent Arizona, but what we do have is some slammer genetics, weve proven it, and with proper HERD MANAGMENT we probuably arent far from an Alberta antelope cracking 90 inch. But, that will never happen, too many people at the helm that either dont have a clue what the condition our herds are in, or believe everything they hear. The issue with this study,,, and I cant speak on it, though there are afew people that can, is that old mature antelope are not being aged as such, data is inaccurate, and justifications are being conjured up and created to keep everyone believing that killing mass #s of albertas antelope out of current unhealthy herds is indeed healthy and will continue to be considered as such. Its awfully easy to do this, all while cutting back funding, work load etc etc, dogging the issues, if everyone affected doesnt believe there is an issue. Do you believe that?

dont go getting all worked up....we are in agreement here. i have indeed heard the OPINION that a 4.5 year old buck is fully mature and that there are plenty of them around. well, there mey be plenty of them, but they are not fully mature in my opinion.....which means squat. i also believe that the aging done by SRD is suspect. i have seen reports on some of the whitetails done and its mind boggling how they think a whitey with 7 inch bases scoring 190 is 3 1/2. the tooth they pulled from him was one of only a few left and worn down badly. anyway, how they are managed is for what biologists feel is a healthy population which to them means enough bucks to breed the available does and an overall herd at whatever population goal is determined for each wmu. this relates to max hunter opportunity which a lot of people want, and consequently, very few bucks reach the age required to truly be at their full trophy potential. another thing im told by the bio's is that because we are at the extreme edge of pronghorn range, a violent winter can be catastrophic, so trying to maximize any trophy potential would be fickle at best as years of growth could be wiped out in a few weeks of natures brutality. i dont know if thats a song and dance or not? i have been told quite clarly that alberta will not manage anything with trophy quality as a primary goal. as for the bucks that do survive to make B&C size....i dont believe they are doing it at 3.5. at least it wouldnt be anywhere near normal. i dont think they top out at 4.5 either. from what i can gather, they are much like a deer in lifespan, so 7.5 is probably a more realistic peak. would a higher buck t doe ratio create more mature bucks? of course.....but that would only happen at a reduction of tags handed out....and guys like you are pretty vocal about having to wait too long for tags as it is, so i dont see that changing. as for outfitters killing bucks with a higher average B&C score, well....thats their job. they are not a good representation of what goes on province wide. kinda like sheep outfitters running at 50ish % success. when its your livelihood, the results are going to be better than the average or you wont be in business long. as for my belief on genetics, well history shows that alberta is not a great producer of giant pronghorns....even dating way back before trophy hunting exploded to what it is today. your comment about arizona tells me you understand that alberta is not a leader in that department.....but yes it could be improved.

and if you hadnt heard, 144 was the wmu they flew this year to determine herd numbers. in that zone, numbers were up which they equate to the entire province. not saying its right...just how its done. seems odd though when they know full well how migratory antelope are in this province, but with funding so tight its unrealistic to think everything will be counted. radio tracking has shown them to be more nomadic than anyone thought. the mule deer were counted in 119. they were found to be below population goals so tags were reduced in the south.

gramps73 · #11 10-22-2010, 09:38 AM

Yes it was non trophy, but with the lack of kids out there and the over hunting of bucks and does this is a train wreck waiting to happen..

lannie · #12 10-22-2010, 09:43 AM

I have never hunted Antelope before and have limited knowledge of them other than what i have read on the forums here and what i have heard from people who i have chatted with. My signifcant other and i have 2 non trophy tags for the 25,26,27 of oct in 112,106,104. Her parents live in bow island and
her father will be with us for the hunt and knows the area quite well. We did a scouting run over the thanksgiving weekend putting a lot of kms. on and talked to many farmers/ranchers in the area. We had a lot of fun and saw lots of different country that i have not seen before. Scouting is a lot of fun to me as it is a very relaxing part of any hunt. Without rambling on any longer, one thing that i was told by one individual rancher is that the antelope do not migrate but they do some extensive "wandering". He told me that his brother had killed one that had a tag or something on it from wyoming ? If this is a fact then i would tend to believe that antelope mngmt is a team effort between many different people/orgs. So is this a really odd antelope or is this "normal."

whitetail Junkie · #13 10-22-2010, 10:10 AM

Great points in this thread,dale and wes.

We brought jasons buck to the manyberries F&W Antelope station and they aged his buck at 3.5 years old,The Biologist showed us the 4th tooth which was tiny and said that it's 3.5 years old.He also pulled a front insizer out aswell.My dad's buck was also 3.5 years old,

Moe's buck was actully 4.5 years old and it had the smallest horns,yet his goat out weighed the two younger bucks by a good 25-35 pounds!!!

Dont know what it all means but thats what it was.

The biologist from lethbridge seemed like a really great guy.He also seemed really concerened about upland birds this year,I expect change in 2011 for bird hunting!

Rockymtnx · #14 10-22-2010, 11:19 AM

It sure would be interesting to know the average age of the antelope that Pronghorn Guide Service kills in AZ.

LongDraw · #15 10-22-2010, 11:53 AM

One thing to consider is if they managed Trophy Antelope to be harvested at 5, 6, and 7 yrs old we would be waiting at least 2x as long for a tag as we are now. As a guess they would have to reduce the tag pool by over 50%

walking buffalo · #16 10-22-2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Is it a joke, yes it is. These pronghorn that are fully matured and score in Alberta need 5.5 to 8.5 years,,, hence there being very few net B&C antelope killed in Alberta. Its called pizz poor management and absolutely zero comprehension ability.

It must be a conspiracy

Even the Bio's from the States don't agree with you Pack. Are you suggesting that even Arizona has it wrong when it comes to trophy Pronghorn biology and management?

Here is the study Morton published regarding Pronghorn horn size relating to age. Worthwhile reading for anyone interested in Pronghorn hunting and management.

http://homepages.ucalgary.ca/~berren...roceedings.pdf

See pg. 96

Comparison Between Pronghorn Age and Horn Size in
Southern Alberta

Quote:

As in other jurisdictions, it appears
older does not mean bigger for pronghorn bucks

And read the study from Arizona on pg 91.

Environmental Conditions as a Precursor of Pronghorn
Horn Size throughout their Life

Quote:

I interpret my results as indicating that bucks born in years having good moisture conditions have a propensity for larger horn mass throughout life. Pronghorn horn size, and horn mass, is therefore dependent not only on the male’s age, environmental conditions preceding and during horn growth, and genetic propensity, but also on the conditions present at the time of its natality.

ishootbambi · #17 10-22-2010, 01:08 PM

i have read that goes for all horned game buff. give a bighorn ram a bad year or 2 when he's young and they can never make up for it no matter how old he gets or how good he eats the rest of his life.....a poor start equates to weaker results at the end. age is important, but only one factor in the equation.

Okotokian · #18 10-22-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packhuntr

They are trying to justify giving out the unbelievably high numbered, mass slaughter tags they do.

How does a guy get in on this "mass slaughter" for trophy antelope? A priority 4 isn't getting me anywhere near it.

packhuntr · #19 10-22-2010, 01:27 PM

Walking buffalo, while that is a great study and quite well done, I cannot and will not agree with regards to the age/horn growth comparisons provided. I disagree that Alberta antelope can be compared to any southern state with regards to age and horn growth. There simply is no way. Thier antelope require larger heat dissipation systems due to ambient temp, and do not face the extremes during initial horn growth stages that ours do here in the north. We ARE NOT growing monster antelope save rare occasions in young antelope in Ab,,, think Hanson whitetail,,, rare but sure it can happen. It will have to be sold somewhere else, cause im not buying it. Ive watched antelope in the same geographic region for a big portion of my life, have watched these bucks and thier individual yearly contribution to horn growth, and NONE have exploded into gross, let alone net book antelope in thier first 3 years, NONE, period. Its not happening in the herd that lives in the Brooks locale. Guys can wing ding ages all they want, but when bucks like the absolute brute, both body and bone wise that my wife harvested this fall are called 4 year olds, there is a little b.s involved. Take a look at Jason Villemaires antelope on Whitetail Junkies thread, you tell me if those antelope are 3 year olds, and be serious when you try to lie to yourself. If you dont believe me, and still theres simply no way these guys are wrong, you clearly havent seen or been around very many antelope in your life. Again, I disagree, I see issues with management of antelope and that simply is all there is to it.

Why not suspend an antelope hunt for a couple years to allow them to rebound from the fallout sustained due to gross overharvest, and large scale winter and spring die offs. Do we not want antelope in Albertas future??? If thats the case why??? They cause no issues with regards to crop loss, and they create no insurance issues with regards to vehicular accidents. They simply exist as a vital part of the prairie ecosystem,,, at least until 50 dollar tag sales enter the equation. Im fairly certain most residents would gladly wait for the opportunity for a tag that doesnt have to be skunked because the herd virtually doesnt exist, let alone for the opportunity at harvesting a good one. These are not meat hunts in any way shape of form, why not support a healthy herd dynamic? Maybe Im totally wrong here, but I do have an open mind and am willing to be educated, someone please fire away.

ishootbambi · #20 10-22-2010, 01:40 PM

^^^the only thing ill argue there is the hanson buck. i know we were told 4 1/2, but very few believe it. sheds were found from him and it just doesnt add up. most people surrounding that story are leaning toward 5 or 6, but i never hard of a tooth being sliced. so pack, did you have your wifes buck aged? maybe one of our biologists can answer a question here. i know in deer that they grow new molars for the first 4 years or something like that (like wisdom teeth coming in) and dont have a full set of teeth when they are young, so that is an indicator for the first few years, but from what i understand, the only sure way to tell is to slice a tooth and look for growth rings similar to a tree? so what i want to know is how do you pluck a tooth and say yup....hes 3?

whitetail Junkie · #21 10-22-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Walking buffalo, while that is a great study and quite well done, I cannot and will not agree with regards to the age/horn growth comparisons provided. I disagree that Alberta antelope can be compared to any southern state with regards to age and horn growth. There simply is no way. Thier antelope require larger heat dissipation systems due to ambient temp, and do not face the extremes during initial horn growth stages that ours do here in the north. We ARE NOT growing monster antelope save rare occasions in young antelope in Ab,,, think Hanson whitetail,,, rare but sure it can happen. It will have to be sold somewhere else, cause im not buying it. Ive watched antelope in the same geographic region for a big portion of my life, have watched these bucks and thier individual yearly contribution to horn growth, and NONE have exploded into gross, let alone net book antelope in thier first 3 years, NONE, period. Its not happening in the herd that lives in the Brooks locale. Guys can wing ding ages all they want, but when bucks like the absolute brute, both body and bone wise that my wife harvested this fall are called 4 year olds, there is a little b.s involved. Take a look at Jason Villemaires antelope on Whitetail Junkies thread, you tell me if those antelope are 3 year olds, and be serious when you try to lie to yourself. If you dont believe me, and still theres simply no way these guys are wrong, you clearly havent seen or been around very many antelope in your life. Again, I disagree, I see issues with management of antelope and that simply is all there is to it.

Why not suspend an antelope hunt for a couple years to allow them to rebound from the fallout sustained due to gross overharvest, and large scale winter and spring die offs. Do we not want antelope in Albertas future??? If thats the case why??? They cause no issues with regards to crop loss, and they create no insurance issues with regards to vehicular accidents. They simply exist as a vital part of the prairie ecosystem,,, at least until 50 dollar tag sales enter the equation. Im fairly certain most residents would gladly wait for the opportunity for a tag that doesnt have to be skunked because the herd virtually doesnt exist, let alone for the opportunity at harvesting a good one. These are not meat hunts in any way shape of form, why not support a healthy herd dynamic? Maybe Im totally wrong here, but I do have an open mind and am willing to be educated, someone please fire away.

I agree that they should Give out less Antelope Tags in the Future.It would'nt hurt my feelings to wait a couple more years for a Trophy antelope Tag.(I'm Currently Priority 7).I'd rather have a longer wait instead of seeing no Alberta antelope in the future.

To tell you the Truth,Maybe Shutting down the Doe antelope season all together would be a good thing.I for one agree that alberta is over harvesting it's antelope population!

packhuntr · #22 10-22-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockymtnx

It sure would be interesting to know the average age of the antelope that Pronghorn Guide Service kills in AZ.

I wonder. Prob afew young ones in there, but there is no question in my mind the average age of these super slammer B&C antelope that they kill is alot higher than 3 years old.

Bambi, yes my wifes antelope is part of thier survey, initial/preliminary age at 4 1/2.

duffy4 · #23 10-24-2010, 08:39 AM

"Is it a joke, yes it is."

packhuntr

That is what I think whenever I read one of your rants about game management in Alberta.

What kind of qualifications and experience do you have that gives you the knowledge to make the kinds of statements you make about how game should or should not be managed?

packhuntr · #24 10-24-2010, 08:54 AM

Duffy,

No qualifications here, and I think thats the problem, if I did have a couple years of school, would I then be qualified to make decisions on how to spend tax payer dollars, managing a tax payer owned resource??? Is that all thats really required, cause it somewhat shows. With out schooling we are not allowed to promote thought on an obviously problematic situation that our hired game managers arent addresing??? So with tax payers dollars being spent on conserving and managing a tax payer owned resource, wouldnt one think there ought to be accountability for not doing the job? Now dont get all steamy and ask where my study is, cause Ive already helped fund afew, I just dont nessesarily agree with what is being said on this one, and again, yes I do see a problem.

packhuntr · #25 10-24-2010, 09:41 AM

Ok Duffy,

Why, when 2 severe winter kills decimated the antelope population, were tag numbers increased, with other areas tags held current at unfathomable numbers, and a new doe harvest implemented where there has never been one? Does someone with either the ACA or SRD have a magic crystal ball? Can they see the future,,, how will the next couple winters be? If numbers are down as drastically as they are in 2 short years, what will the situation be if they take another hammering this winter,, or next winter? There should be proactive management. Renewable, yes they are, but to what extent. Sure a doe has twins every year of her life after the age of 2.5, but how low do they have to go before something is done?? Wouldnt trimming back tags in the IMMEDIATE have seemed like a pretty sound call? Again, just me brain storming,,, no study's here, sorry bout that...

shedcrazy · #26 10-24-2010, 12:31 PM

There is several key issues that are part of pronghorn management. One we are at the northern tip of their range and never had the numbers of the southern states. Two, due to being at the northern tip I am sure our average age of the herd will be less than done south (less ideal habitat and harsher climate). Third we are limited by our summer and winter range and both have it's own carrying capacity. The last point is that there is less and less native habitat both summer and winter ranges.
If it wasn't for some of the big ranches, EID and CFB Suffield I doubt we would have any lopes left. They don't do well in potato and corn fields.
Wildlife management for pronghorn in this province seems to be kill them before they die anyways (right or wrong)...no matter if that is old age, predators or harsh winters. Keeping lots of lopes on the habitat might not always be the best thing when it's limited.

sheepguide · #27 10-24-2010, 12:59 PM

Just a couple of my observations and what we were told over this past week.

The check station and the few F&W officers we talked to said that they are seeing a trend in the area we hunted with the bucks horn size declining after reaching a certain age. Right now they are trying to determin what age that number is.
They are concerned about herd numbers and only issued 10 NT tags this season.
There were 389 Trophy tags issued but I guarentee that that the harvest number was no where near that. There were lots of bucks around but many guys dont harvest due to lack of knowledge and not getting off roads.
Talking to some land owners and they were seeing some very good bucks but they werent moving out to the man made water holes(dug outs) which are typicaly near the roads as there was alot of water in natural spots that on typical years dont hold water. This had a great affect on harvest numbers as most goats are shot very near roads.

I also noticed that fawn numbers where pretty much non existant due to a cold wet spring. It will hurt the antelope numbers for sure down the road.

The talk of a mass slaughter is a little extreme at least in the area I was in. Sure there are lots of bucks shot but with only 10 doe tags it seems to me that they are addressing the population numbers(as anyone knows you control herd number with female harvest not male).

SG

birdhunter99 · #28 10-24-2010, 02:07 PM

I guess the conspiracy must be North American wide!! Montana is in on it too those evil $%#@$%#$^. So is New Mexico!!! I'm sure glad we have Packhunter to set us all straight!! While you are at it, could you also please tells us who shot JFK? Please!

Taken from Dr. David Browns paper re. horn growth in pronghorn:
Moreover, a study on Ted Turner’s Armendariz Ranch in southern New Mexico (Brown et al. 2002), showed that the horns of bucks >7 years old had significantly smaller BC scores than those of younger animals (P < 0.03). Considering the effects of pronghorn age alone, the horn sheaths of hunted animals on this ranch decreased by an average of 0.28 cm (0.11 in) of length and 0.53 BCpoints for every year of age.

The conventional explanation for this phenomenon was that pronghorn lived longer in Arizona due to the state’s mild winters (O’Connor 1961), a conclusion shown to be faulty when studies in Montana showed that the longest horns and greatest Boone and Crockett (BC) scores were from animals 2 to 4 years old (Mitchell and Maher 2001, 2004).
Here are the references:
Brown, D. E., W. F. ***an, and B. Turner. 2002. Pronghorn horn sheath growth, age and precipitation on a ranch in southern New Mexico. Proceedings Pronghorn Workshop 20:17-21.

Mitchell, C. D., and C. R. Maher. 2001. Are horn characteristics related to age in male pronghorns? Wildlife Society Bulletin 29:908-916.

Mitchell, C. D., and C. R. Maher. 2004. Selection for early horn growth in pronghorn (Antilocapra americana) males. Proceedings Pronghorn Workshop 21:54-63.

Do deer and elk need some age to reach their full potential? Yes, definitely.

Pronghorn are unique, they are not like cervids. The fact that maximum horn length is reached at younger ages in pronghorn is old news. It has been shown time and time again in various jurisdictions. Nothing new will be shown by this project in AB. So to anyone who wants more very old bucks, I say no thanks, I would like bigger horns.

If you want to be mad about pronghorn mangment in AB, get mad about the huge losses of native prairie, more and more impediments to migration like fences and roads, and more and more plans for development in imporant habitats. Do something about that and we might have pronghorn in the future. Concentrating on whining about tag numbers is like fiddling while Rome burns.

birdhunter99 · #29 10-24-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

and if you hadnt heard, 144 was the wmu they flew this year to determine herd numbers. in that zone, numbers were up which they equate to the entire province. not saying its right...just how its done. seems odd though when they know full well how migratory antelope are in this province, but with funding so tight its unrealistic to think everything will be counted. radio tracking has shown them to be more nomadic than anyone thought.

Once again you are completely wrong. Pronghorn survey transects are in place from the US Border up to the Hanna area, including a set on CFB Suffield. Each July they are all flown to determine fawn/doe/buck rations and overall numbers. This survey is not dictated by certain WMU's each year, it samples them all every year. This superior to the current situation with deer where survey intervals for WMU's could be as long as 7 years. The surveys are done this way due to the migratory nature of pronghorn and great variablity across the range. Similarly the tags are issues for groups of WMU's. Please try to get a little bit of information correct before you post.

ishootbambi · #30 10-24-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdhunter99

Once again you are completely wrong. Pronghorn survey transects are in place from the US Border up to the Hanna area, including a set on CFB Suffield. Each July they are all flown to determine fawn/doe/buck rations and overall numbers. This survey is not dictated by certain WMU's each year, it samples them all every year. This superior to the current situation with deer where survey intervals for WMU's could be as long as 7 years. The surveys are done this way due to the migratory nature of pronghorn and great variablity across the range. Similarly the tags are issues for groups of WMU's. Please try to get a little bit of information correct before you post.

funny you should mention that.......you know.....being as you were standing right there when thats what a large group of us were told. meh....im getting on in years...maybe my memory aint what it used to be. so what else do you know? i was also told that 119 is the zone that was flown for mule deer this year, and that cypress elk numbers are up so tags would be up to 40 per hunt. we know that the cypress numbers are correct, so is memory serving me right about the mules in 119?

as for the study on pronghorn size.....it doesnt make sense after everything we know about other species......but there seems to be enough research on it to make that conclusion. the only question i have then is about how the aging is done. i asked before and havent see an answer, so how is it done. my understanding is that the only sure way to know is to slice a tooth and count growth rings like a tree, yet at a check sation they just pull one and then state age matter of fact. so ....how does it work?