Cooking a Steak Rare Could Be Dangerous

[midgetwaiter]

With the recent mess with XL and the e. coli there was one thing that bothered me. I can understand how e. coli can be an issue with hamburger, that's part of the reason I use a thermometer when I cook. I was always confused though when I read accounts of people getting sick from steaks that were from XL. E. coli only lives on the surface of the meat, you don't have to be worried about a rare steak as long as the outside is cooked, or so I thought.

Turns out that many places are using a technique to tenderize steaks that can make e. coli an issue if you don't cook a steak to an internal temp of at least 160F (medium). More info here:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...enderizer.html

I'm sure some people already knew this but there's probably lots of us that didn't know this kind of technique is common place. I like a rare steak but this is going to make me think twice. There were lots of comments here about XL along the lines of "not an issue if you cook your meat properly". I thought I knew what "properly" meant, looks like I was wrong.

[tbosch]

All the more reason to eat wild meat..

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

BLech!! My rib-eyes are cooked blue rare or none at all.
Just had one the other night as a matter of fact.
Mmmmmm.

[tbosch]

Originally Posted by Calgary Dave

Bosch. My rib-eyes are cooked blue rare or none at all.
Just had one the other night as a matter of fact.
Mmmmmm.

Oh mine too. and I wont change that due to the recent events. It is nice though to have the peace of mind when biting in to a fresh WT tenderloin that it hasnt been handled by 15 different people or injected with anything prior to being on the cutting line..

[omega50]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

With the recent mess with XL and the e. coli there was one thing that bothered me. I can understand how e. coli can be an issue with hamburger, that's part of the reason I use a thermometer when I cook. I was always confused though when I read accounts of people getting sick from steaks that were from XL. E. coli only lives on the surface of the meat, you don't have to be worried about a rare steak as long as the outside is cooked, or so I thought.

Turns out that many places are using a technique to tenderize steaks that can make e. coli an issue if you don't cook a steak to an internal temp of at least 160F (medium). More info here:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...enderizer.html

I'm sure some people already knew this but there's probably lots of us that didn't know this kind of technique is common place. I like a rare steak but this is going to make me think twice. There were lots of comments here about XL along the lines of "not an issue if you cook your meat properly". I thought I knew what "properly" meant, looks like I was wrong.

Pretty common, but not everyone uses that method. The Costco Edmonton illnesses were attributed to that technique.

And as always some people will carry that raw steak out to the BBQ- cook it and bring it back into the house on the same plate/pan that it was marinated in. Or trim the raw steak on a cutting board and then do up the raw veggie plate on the same board.
1000 ways to die.

A properly functioning immune system can cover for a LOT of kitchen sins. And even cover up Costco's sleight of hand to ensure you think their steaks are naturally tender.

[.257Weatherby]

XL has many problems to wade through and to bury one heads in the sand wont make it go away.
From ''self regulation/reporting'' to ''poor training'' of its staff.
Then there where/are issues of staff with poor personal hygiene who just dont give a flying fluck or just dont understand the reasons for good personal hygiene in the work place.
It is all about the safety of our food and the reasons behind the rules and regulations.
This is a very complex accident with many complex issues to be dealt with.
I hope the people who where layed off are back to work soon and the town of Brooks suffers no long term effects from the incident.
Rob

[score]

Not to be rude but gee whiz, everything is dangerous today. That's all we read about. I like my steak rare. I think that scare is over by now anyhow.

[Nickote316]

Originally Posted by score

Not to be rude but gee whiz, everything is dangerous today. That's all we read about. I like my steak rare. I think that scare is over by now anyhow.

Careful now. Liking steak is dangerous and could be fatal

[greylynx]

Anyone eating steak tartar tonight?

Fellow AO members:

How do you spell steak tartar in german and in polish?

I have a little argument going on.

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Anyone eating steak tartar tonight?

Fellow AO members:

How do you spell steak tartar in german and in polish?

I have a little argument going on.

Das Rindfleisch tartar

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by vcmm

Das Rindfleisch tartar

Thanks Spock:

That is formal german.

I think I should have asked the question:

What european term or word do you associate with steak tarter?

Thanks Spock. Friday night and your still on the ball.

Take care guy.

[Bushrat]

For steaks buy bone in cuts like t-bone that they cannot put through the mechanical tenderizer.

[RavYak]

I still can't believe how overblown this all is...

16 people out of 35 million Canadians and everyone is having a cow over eating beef.

You are probably more likely to have a heart attack, fall off a bridge or get struck by lightning then get e-coli and yet everyone is up in arms saying they shouldn't eat beef...

Just eat your beef how and when you like it. If you are one of the unlucky that happens to consume e-coli then hope you are one of the 95% that survives it with no major symptoms...

If you are one of the 5% of the huge minority that does get severely sick then sorry, guess it was just your time to go...

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Anyone eating steak tartar tonight?

Fellow AO members:

How do you spell steak tartar in german and in polish?

I have a little argument going on.

As I remember from my mother, It also involves a raw egg in the meat. Double jeopardy, German style.

Grizz

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

For steaks buy bone in cuts like t-bone that they cannot put through the mechanical tenderizer.

Yes they can and do.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

As I remember from my mother, It also involves a raw egg in the meat. Double jeopardy, German style.

Grizz

A Raw egg and salt and pepper.

I have a cousin that will eat raw round right out of the grinder.

That is after the hairy hamburger has been taken off the top.

Quality meat does not need anything to hide it's excellent taste.

It all comes down to how it is handled.

Somewhere along the line I think us consumers have been blind sided.

Our society is graduating meat cutters out of SAIT and NAIT.

They are not graduating true butchers.

Where are the butchers out of Britain and mainland europe that we used to go to?

A lot of consumers are confused about the meat they purchase these days.

As much a I hate government, clean meat is very important.

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by greylynx

A Raw egg and salt and pepper.

I have a cousin that will eat raw round right out of the grinder.

That is after the hairy hamburger has been taken off the top.

Quality meat does not need anything to hide it's excellent taste.

It all comes down to how it is handled.

Somewhere along the line I think us consumers have been blind sided.

Our society is graduating meat cutters out of SAIT and NAIT.

They are not graduating true butchers.

Where are the butchers out of Britain and mainland europe that we used to go to?

A lot of consumers are confused about the meat they purchase these days.

As much a I hate government, clean meat is very important.

Where are the butchers out of Britain and mainland europe that we used to go to?

[bigshell]

Originally Posted by RavCanoe

I still can't believe how overblown this all is...

16 people out of 35 million Canadians and everyone is having a cow over eating beef.

You are probably more likely to have a heart attack, fall off a bridge or get struck by lightning then get e-coli and yet everyone is up in arms saying they shouldn't eat beef...

Just eat your beef how and when you like it. If you are one of the unlucky that happens to consume e-coli then hope you are one of the 95% that survives it with no major symptoms...

If you are one of the 5% of the huge minority that does get severely sick then sorry, guess it was just your time to go...

x2!!

I can't believe what a sociaty of puzzies we have become. Ya know why,cuz we live in a culture of fear spoon fed to us by the media...Truth be told you have a greater risk of ecoli from raw fruits and vegatables than beef..Salmonela is more prevalant than ecoili....Getting into yer auto and driving is a bigger risk and we do that every day without thinking...Go buy some beef and eat it

[Mxyzptik]

Originally Posted by bigshell

x2!!

I can't believe what a sociaty of puzzies we have become. Ya know why,cuz we live in a culture of fear spoon fed to us by the media...Truth be told you have a greater risk of ecoli from raw fruits and vegatables than beef..Salmonela is more prevalant than ecoili....Getting into yer auto and driving is a bigger risk and we do that every day without thinking...Go buy some beef and eat it

I certainly agree that most of what you read in the media is garbage and have plenty of personal experience with them. I am not going to blindly say I will continue to eat whatever I want because I don't believe the media.

There are many practices in some areas of intensive agriculture and food production / preparation that I question. I had stopped buying any hamburger from the grocery store several years ago. Heck, at least 6 times a year I read a recall warning about contaminated meat. It usually goes " anyone buying hamburger 3 weeks a go from the following locations shouldn't eat it ......" IT"S TOO LATE BUY THEN I ALREADY ATE IT !

As a result of this sloppiness I started carefully sourcing all my meat years ago. Like any hunter I eat a lot of game but I don't get it butchered or made into sausage, I do that myself. I help raise organic chickens at my brother in laws farm and we butcher them ourselves. BTW, they taste like chickens used to hmmmmm!

If I want a beef burger I grind my own and it is sourced straight from the producer and butchered locally.

But crappy practices are still crappy practices. Just because I am exposed to
E. coli or some other bacteria everyday doesn't mean that I should be complacent and blind to it. That's why I have proper food prep practices with cutting boards and marinades and I wash my fruits and veggies far more rigorous than I used to.

I used to buy a whole rib loin from Costco , carefully trimmed it and cut nice big rib-eyes. I make a great marinade and vacuum seal them grilling later. I cook them properly and enjoy.

However , I was very disappointed to learn about the practice of needling and am now reluctant to buy from Costco or other outlets. I don't think that reluctance is misplaced or that I am over reacting based on leading media reports ( although I do agree that you can believe very little you read today from them.)

I certainly feel sorry for the producers who work very hard for their living but often times they are their own worst enemy. Didn't the whole BSE situation occur because the industry here ignored what happened in Britain and couldn't stop themselves from the practice of feeding cow parts to cows ? In that case clearly the risk was not worth the reward.

People's food buying habits are changing, many are looking to source directly from the producer, farmers markets are popping up all over the province and people are being choosy about what they eat.

The agricultural industry should be careful not to simply cry foul and blame the media for their woes. They need to address their own short-comings and many of them know it .

You can call the people who are concerned " media sheep" if you wish, I think the sheep also exist in an industry in denial of it's own problems.

[bigshell]

They recal vegetables as much as or more so than meat,more people get ill from contaminated fruits and vegetables.Wheres the public outcry on the fruit&veg producers and processers to clean up thier act?? Did anyone quit buying fruit and vegies ?? Nah the media knows they'll sell more ad space if it involves blood and deseases.Cow blood and desease makes good copy and sells lotsa ad space..
XL needs to clean up the kill floor and the processing floor have it inspected and change what they goota to keep the bugs to a acceptable standard..But lets not get too freaked out ok

[Mxyzptik]

Originally Posted by bigshell

They recal vegetables as much as or more so than meat,more people get ill from contaminated fruits and vegetables.Wheres the public outcry on the fruit&veg producers and processers to clean up thier act?? Did anyone quit buying fruit and vegies ?? Nah the media knows they'll sell more ad space if it involves blood and deseases.Cow blood and desease makes good copy and sells lotsa ad space..
XL needs to clean up the kill floor and the processing floor have it inspected and change what they goota to keep the bugs to a acceptable standard..But lets not get too freaked out ok

I think you are making my point Bigshell. Yes they recall veggies and fruit and yes people git ill from it. You advised people to dismiss the reports and just buy beef and eat it. Do you advise the same for veggies ?

Those in the industry that ignore the consumer will continue to lose market share to those that are listening IMO.

[gitrdun]

I prefer my steaks medium well done, so not likely to be an issue for me. The funny thing is that when E. Coli is mentioned, XL Beef is automatically associated with it. In my opinion, the CFIA is as much to blame if not more. They had 40 inspectors on site, it's their job to catch this before it goes out on the reefers. What were they doing? having coffee breaks or turning their heads the other way?

[KegRiver]

There used to be a time when men were men and sheep were nervous.


No no!! wrong story!

I'll try that again.

There used to be a time when everyone knew that to be safe, all meat had to be well cooked as they used to say.

I remember dad visiting with and old trapper who was travelling the river one day. In the front of the boat was a tarp covering something that several thousand flies were very interested in.
There was a rank odour emitting from under that tarp. After a bit dad took notice of the boats cargo. "What ya got under the tarp Louie", he asked.
Just a bit of Moose meat replied the old trapper, flipping back the tarp to expose a very strangely colour slab of meat, about 40 pounds worth I would guess.

"It's getting a bit ripe don't you think", asked dad. Yup, said Louie, but if you burn it you can't taste it, he replied.

Later, after Louie had left, dad told me that the man was not kidding.
He would indeed eat that meat, and it would not harm him.
It was common practice among some, back before people had refrigerators and freezers.

The problem is not the contamination, it's the way we cook meat today.
Bloody rare has always been dangerous and it always will be.

If that's what folks want, so be it. Just don't be surprised when someone gets sick from eating red rare meat of any sort.

Cooking was invented for a good reason.

[Andrzej]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Anyone eating steak tartar tonight?

Fellow AO members:

How do you spell steak tartar in german and in polish?

I have a little argument going on.

In Polish is "Tatar"

And this is Elk Tatar

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by vcmm

Where are the butchers out of Britain and mainland europe that we used to go to?

Oh Dear, Oh My.

I am so very sorry Spock.

I honestly am. Shame on me.

[Matt L.]

You do have a point Keg, but for the life of me I can't eat the shoe leather called well done.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

There used to be a time when men were men and sheep were nervous.


No no!! wrong story!

I'll try that again.

There used to be a time when everyone knew that to be safe, all meat had to be well cooked as they used to say.

I remember dad visiting with and old trapper who was travelling the river one day. In the front of the boat was a tarp covering something that several thousand flies were very interested in.
There was a rank odour emitting from under that tarp. After a bit dad took notice of the boats cargo. "What ya got under the tarp Louie", he asked.
Just a bit of Moose meat replied the old trapper, flipping back the tarp to expose a very strangely colour slab of meat, about 40 pounds worth I would guess.

"It's getting a bit ripe don't you think", asked dad. Yup, said Louie, but if you burn it you can't taste it, he replied.

Later, after Louie had left, dad told me that the man was not kidding.
He would indeed eat that meat, and it would not harm him.
It was common practice among some, back before people had refrigerators and freezers.

The problem is not the contamination, it's the way we cook meat today.
Bloody rare has always been dangerous and it always will be.

If that's what folks want, so be it. Just don't be surprised when someone gets sick from eating red rare meat of any sort.

Cooking was invented for a good reason.

Thats a bit of an oversimplification.

his immune sytsem was adapted to it and cooking the bejasus out fo something might halt growth or even kill bacteria but it does nothing to toxins.

Finally... al lot of people in fact a higher percentage of people died from foodborne illness in the good old days than do now.

The same way bad water killed more peole in the good old days.

There is a reason why we say that bad water and bad food killed more men in war and elsewhere than bullets ever did.
Its because it is is historically true.

That said... by WWII it was disease in general vice bullets and now... "progress" ensures that bullets and bombs account for more casualties.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Thats a bit of an oversimplification.

his immune sytsem was adapted to it and cooking the bejasus out fo something might halt growth or even kill bacteria but it does nothing to toxins.

Finally... al lot of people in fact a higher percentage of people died from foodborne illness in the good old days than do now.

The same way bad water killed more peole in the good old days.

There is a reason why we say that bad water and bad food killed more men in war and elsewhere than bullets ever did.
Its because it is is historically true.

That said... by WWII it was disease in general vice bullets and now... "progress" ensures that bullets and bombs account for more casualties.

An oversimplification maybe, but none-the-less, true.

For sure there is a lot of factors involved, and I guess that's my point.
With today's high standards of food safety, I would think there ought to be far less food illness then there is.

As far as history goes, I was talking about after WW2, not the dark ages.
I have no doubt that if one goes back far enough one could find a time when food illness caused more death then any other factor.

But the era I'm talking about was well into the present food safety era.
It's the trend toward rare and even raw food, meats specifically, and the increasingly single provider nature of our food system that I think is putting peoples lives in danger.

In the sixties and seventies most rural families bought local or grew their own food. Except of course folks in the larger towns and cities where typically a small garden provided the only locally produced food, most people saw.

Today even most farm families buy everything they eat, from a Super Store.

In the sixties and seventies there was four or five slaughter houses in Edmonton and a couple of Poultry processing places. Every one owned by different people.

Today is there even that many in the entire province? And how many owners are there of those that remain. One, maybe two? In the entire country!

And now God only knows what some of those places put into the food they sell us.
Growth hormones, steroids, medicines, and meat scraps that used to go into dog food, anything not prohibited by government.

At least in the sixties and seventies most companies cared about food safety. Now all they care about is the bottom line and not getting caught cheating.

Yeah I know, that's not entirely true. There are still a few small producers that do it the way it ought to be done.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

An oversimplification maybe, but none-the-less, true.

For sure there is a lot of factors involved, and I guess that's my point.
With today's high standards of food safety, I would think there ought to be far less food illness then there is.

As far as history goes, I was talking about after WW2, not the dark ages.
I have no doubt that if one goes back far enough one could find a time when food illness caused more death then any other factor.

But the era I'm talking about was well into the present food safety era.
It's the trend toward rare and even raw food, meats specifically, and the increasingly single provider nature of our food system that I think is putting peoples lives in danger.

In the sixties and seventies most rural families bought local or grew their own food. Except of course folks in the larger towns and cities where typically a small garden provided the only locally produced food, most people saw.

Today even most farm families buy everything they eat, from a Super Store.

In the sixties and seventies there was four or five slaughter houses in Edmonton and a couple of Poultry processing places. Every one owned by different people.

Today is there even that many in the entire province? And how many owners are there of those that remain. One, maybe two? In the entire country!

And now God only knows what some of those places put into the food they sell us.
Growth hormones, steroids, medicines, and meat scraps that used to go into dog food, anything not prohibited by government.

At least in the sixties and seventies most companies cared about food safety. Now all they care about is the bottom line and not getting caught cheating.

Yeah I know, that's not entirely true. There are still a few small producers that do it the way it ought to be done.

Better.

The food overall is safer... but the potential for widespread harm has increased along with the harm done to confidence and business when it does happen that a recall takes place.

So... improved plant design and up grades that helped squeeze the little guy out of business were a good thing because of increased safety.

Putting all of our eggs in one basket and allowing plants to produce the kind of volume and develop the huge distribution networks that finished the job... are the other less beneficial side of the coin and the vulnerability that we allowed to be built in.

The end result is that food is generally safer yet ironically we are on the whole at an increased risk of having massive recalls and wide spread illness when things do go wrong.
We simply exchanged one set of problems for a different set of problems.

One last thing folks.
Lets not forget that we helped em do it.
If consumers had refused to go to these big stores to save a penny... we'd all still be eating locally raised and processed meat.

I prefer to cut my own or to go to a local butcher that I trust for the reasons that you stated and for my own.
But that just isn't practical for most folks now because on so many levels we've all....sold the farm

[midgetwaiter]

If somebody wants to cook the hell out of some green moose that's an obvious decision. Sounds like being anywhere near Louie's manky moose would give you all the information you needed to make an informed choice. The grocery store screwing around with my steak and not telling me degrades my ability to make an informed choice.

This isn't the difference between bloody rare and well done. The common, just a little pink in the middle medium rare kinda steak probably didn't get to 71 degrees either.