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  #151  
Old 04-05-2009, 09:39 AM
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Bushrat Bushrat is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ram crazy View Post
If it wasn't the first quad to go missing maybe you should look at how your storing it!!!

You don't get the point. Blaming the person for how he stores his quad insinuates he is in the wrong and the thief is the victom. It dosen't matter how he stores his quad. It's his quad and nobody should ever touch it period. Technically a person should be able to leave a stack of thousand dollar bills lying in his driveway or on the dash of his unlocked truck with the windows down and nobody has any business touching it. It blows me away the excuses people come up with to justify criminal action and blame the victim should he attempt to do anything about it. If this keeps going we will eventually have it legislated that thiefs only have to knock on your door and simply demand you give them what ever they want with a smile. The two police officers that will accompany the criminal to your house will ensure you comply and that there is no funny business such as resisting or defending yourself .Just wait criminals will soon have their own union, benefits and pension plan. The system will go to an email format and the criminal will simply send you an email and you will by law have to transfer all your money by paypal or be charged with denying a criminals right to extort all your money.

The way some of you think blows my mind.
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  #152  
Old 04-05-2009, 09:59 AM
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This thread sounds more like a damn Liberal convention than a defence fund for Mr. Knight.

No one died. A scum bag piece of crap thief got a couple pieces of buckshot in the ass. That's it. Mr. Knight is not a murderer and should not spend years in jail like some on here would like to suggest.

Hey Jester, did you ever consider that the buckshot may have bounced off the road or the truck and caught the little puke in the butt. Maybe it wasn't an outright attempt at murder like you are trying to suggest here. Were you there man? You sure you have all your facts straight.

Here are some quotes from Jester:

"Shooting at someone who stole your quad is attempted murder."
"My question is does it warrant a shot to the back of the head?"
"I say let the courts decide...not you backyard yahoos with a 12 guage""7-8 counts?? hmm...Mr.Shooter has his hands full..lol "

So it seems that Jester is laughing at Mr. Knight and calling him a yahoo in his own backyard here. You make me sick with your ignorant comments here Dude.

Good luck with our Liberal laws and the RCMP for protection. Just make sure your insurance is paid up and you have money in your bank account for the $500 deductible each time.
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  #153  
Old 04-05-2009, 10:13 AM
lazeejjs lazeejjs is offline
 
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Want to contribute to Brian's fund from B.C. What is the bank's name? The only mistake he made was calling the police. Shoot the guy, dump him at a hospital hogtied. If he's dead, drop his body off in the bush for the coyotes.
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  #154  
Old 04-05-2009, 10:23 AM
Janitor Pants Janitor Pants is offline
 
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Originally Posted by lazeejjs View Post
Want to contribute to Brian's fund from B.C. What is the bank's name? The only mistake he made was calling the police. Shoot the guy, dump him at a hospital hogtied. If he's dead, drop his body off in the bush for the coyotes.
You can find all pertinent info here.

http://www.brianknightlegalfund.com/

Cheers
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  #155  
Old 04-05-2009, 11:31 AM
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personally i dont B Knight, but any of the clan i have met are stand up, respectable and responsible people.
The family name is rock solid in the community that they have been supporting for generations.
If the role was reversed, i know what side they would be on.
I wish the family all the best
roger
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  #156  
Old 04-05-2009, 12:38 PM
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Default Well said Bushrat.

Quote:
The right of self-protection
By Lorne Gunter, The Edmonton Journal
April 3, 2009

The development of "consent policing" in the 19th century was a great achievement. However, it did not extinguish homeowners' absolute right to defend their families, themselves and their property from criminals.

Prior to Robert Peel's creation of London's "Bobbies" in the 1800s, most policing consisted of a paid sheriff or village constable who pressed civilians into duty if ever a criminal was too dangerous for him to arrest on his own. Citizens, though, remained largely responsible for their own protection.

Still, even after people "consented" to hiring and authorizing full-time professional police forces, they did not relinquish their right to self-defence nor to the personal protection of their property and loved ones.

Professional police were an add-on -- not a replacement for -- the citizenry's own authority.

In the nearly 200 years since, many of us -- including police chiefs and politicians -- have forgotten that police are the servants of the public. They exist to supplement our own very real personal right to protection.

If we wish to leave our safety entirely up to the police -- as most urban dwellers do, me included -- so be it, but there is nothing that obliges us to.

There are laws against firing a gun within city limits in most cities. And if you wound or kill an alleged perpetrator (or worse still, an innocent bystander), you can be brought up on manslaughter or even murder charges. Yet, despite all those restrictions, there exist ancient rights that empower all of us to self-defence.

Which brings me to Brian Knight, the 38-year-old central Alberta farmer who was charged by police last Friday for vigorously defending his property.

Police claim Knight witnessed his 4x4 all-terrain vehicle being stolen from his property far from any police station. He chased the thief off his land, rammed him into a ditch, shot him as he tried to escape and organized a posse to track him down and bring him in to police.

Knight is charged with criminal negligence causing bodily harm, assault and dangerous driving.

Knight's actions might seem a bit excessive just to keep a thief from taking an ATV. But it's not the ATV, it's the principle.

Burglaries are psychologically damaging. In addition to making the victim angry, they can leave families feeling violated and vulnerable. If burglars are left unchallenged they will come to feel freer and freer to commit their thefts.

At least in a city there is still a reasonable expectation that a 911 call will get the police to one's home in a matter of minutes if one is reporting a burglar in the house. Not so out on the isolated stretch of prairie 30, 50 or more kilometres from the nearest RCMP detachment. There, the right we never gave up to defend ourselves becomes very real and practical.

Was Knight's response to the attempted theft more aggressive than I would have made in the same circumstances? Probably. But was it within the realm of what was reasonable? Certainly.

The attempted theft was not just about the loss of an ATV but about maintaining the thin web of law and order out beyond where professional policing is timely and consistent.

Knight's case puts me in mind of Tony Martin, the Norfolk, England, farmer who killed one teenage burglar and wounded another on his remote piece of land in the summer of 1999.

Never mind that between them, the burglars had nearly 100 prior court appearances, most for theft, or that they were rummaging around in the dark at Martin's farm in the middle of the night and that when he happened upon them he had no way of knowing whether they were armed or not.

Martin was convicted of murder for defending himself and his home. Even though his conviction was later reduced to manslaughter, he still served twice as much time in prison as the surviving burglar.

Police kept Martin in prison almost an extra year because the family of the teen he killed had made "specific death threats" against him and had placed a "contract" on his head. If he were released, police would not guarantee his safety.

So Martin -- the possible victim of a criminal "hit" -- was locked up, while those who threatened him went free.

The final insanity was the approval of legal aid for the surviving crook so he could sue Martin for the wounds the farmer inflicted on him.

Let's hope our system does not become as topsy-turvy as the British one, where concern for the rights of the criminal, and police and prosecutorial mistrust of the citizenry has turned the law on its head.

Don't prosecute Brian Knight.

Lorne Gunter is a columnist with the Edmonton Journal.
Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
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  #157  
Old 04-05-2009, 01:07 PM
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Lets not forget that Bashaw Sports was recently broken into and all the handguns went missing, where were the police then? There station is maybe three blocks from Pud's store. Any of you who have been to Bashaw Sports know that it would take some time to get in and acess the storage cabinet for the handguns. And who's to say it wasn't the same guys.

I know that since this is all taken place I wake up at every bark my dogs make. And I know how long it takes to have police get to my house and lets just say that they could make off with everything I have before the police would get here.

So according to some posts we are not to do anything if we have sombody tresspassing and taking our belongings. Just sit in the house and hope bad men go away.

I know that one of the thieves name is Nick Dewald, As soon as I find out the others I will post them as well.
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  #158  
Old 04-05-2009, 04:24 PM
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Axeman and Bushrat..well said and once again Lorne Gunter nails it. This is not about the loss of a quad. This is about the loss of the law. This is about the criminals taking over this country....this is about being able to defend ourselves and our property. These are the inalienable rights that we are born with and do not/ cannot relinquish.

It is not up to us to protect the criminals from themselves. Somewhere along the way this started getting distorted and if we let it keep going along these lines we are going to wind up in a deep pool of crap. We should not be living our lives at the and for the convenience of criminals. If someone wants to make a living stealing then they should know that their life is at risk. I see nothing wrong with shooting AND killing someone who would try and steal a part of someone else's life. The only problem I have is that society should strive to make it better known to criminals that this is the price they may have to pay. Law abiding citizens such as Mr. Knight should NOT be inconvenienced for exercising his God given right to protect himself, his liberty, and his property.
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  #159  
Old 04-05-2009, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika View Post
Axeman and Bushrat..well said and once again Lorne Gunter nails it. This is not about the loss of a quad. This is about the loss of the law. This is about the criminals taking over this country....this is about being able to defend ourselves and our property. These are the inalienable rights that we are born with and do not/ cannot relinquish.

It is not up to us to protect the criminals from themselves. Somewhere along the way this started getting distorted and if we let it keep going along these lines we are going to wind up in a deep pool of crap. We should not be living our lives at the and for the convenience of criminals. If someone wants to make a living stealing then they should know that their life is at risk. I see nothing wrong with shooting AND killing someone who would try and steal a part of someone else's life. The only problem I have is that society should strive to make it better known to criminals that this is the price they may have to pay. Law abiding citizens such as Mr. Knight should NOT be inconvenienced for exercising his God given right to protect himself, his liberty, and his property.
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  #160  
Old 04-05-2009, 04:55 PM
el sparko el sparko is offline
 
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i promised myself i wouldn't stick my nose into this one but it bothers me to no end. mr knight didn't set out that day to mete out his own brand of justice. he was going about his day and then he came upon some thieves that were ripping him off. what happened after that was done at the spur of the moment and he was probably running on adreniline. thoughts run through your head pretty fast in a situation like that, he may have thought "what if my wife had stumbled onto this?" more anger than reason would surely take over. how dangerious are these guys? i don't want to be a statistic..he grabbed a shotgun and tried to protect his own.
now consider the law, we don't have a right to shoot bad guys or even threaten to shoot them. the police have to respond to each call and gauge the appropriate amount of danger each situation envolves. should they shoot their weapon, use spray or a tazer will they be up on charges?
now consider the criminals, they just have to know the law and how to cry in front of a judge and they get off with a slap.
there are no winners here.
unless 12 of us are called as jurors...
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  #161  
Old 04-05-2009, 08:29 PM
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FYI i found this facebook, for what it is worth,

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=82079907472
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  #162  
Old 04-05-2009, 11:04 PM
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And people wonder why the law is going to be increasingly returning to citizens hands?

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...622/story.html

Personally, I think if something isn't done with the legal system to make it more a justice system, there will be an increasing willingness to act in ones own interest...
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  #163  
Old 04-06-2009, 12:01 AM
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I cant belive some of you guys saying He should look at how he stores his quad, Its Calving season he was using the quad to check on his cows its his bloody quad he can store it where ever the hell he wants to. The Criminals put them self in this position if they would of stayed off his Property and minded there own business they would of never had a problem with Bryan. But once they decided to Break the law and Violate this mans Rights they put him into a position of reaction. He reacted to the theives actions. Bryan had no intent to break the law that day so how in the hell can he be held criminaly responsible. I also heard through the grape vine that his wife was outside when these punks showed up on his land. If he had the intention of killing this punk he would of reached for the Rifle not The Shotgun with buck shot. The man deserves an award for trying to get these punks off the street . Donation is on the way
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  #164  
Old 04-06-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
You don't get the point. Blaming the person for how he stores his quad insinuates he is in the wrong and the thief is the victom. It dosen't matter how he stores his quad. It's his quad and nobody should ever touch it period. Technically a person should be able to leave a stack of thousand dollar bills lying in his driveway or on the dash of his unlocked truck with the windows down and nobody has any business touching it. It blows me away the excuses people come up with to justify criminal action and blame the victim should he attempt to do anything about it. If this keeps going we will eventually have it legislated that thiefs only have to knock on your door and simply demand you give them what ever they want with a smile. The two police officers that will accompany the criminal to your house will ensure you comply and that there is no funny business such as resisting or defending yourself .Just wait criminals will soon have their own union, benefits and pension plan. The system will go to an email format and the criminal will simply send you an email and you will by law have to transfer all your money by paypal or be charged with denying a criminals right to extort all your money.

The way some of you think blows my mind.
I'm not blaming him, all I'm saying in this day in age you have to keep eveything locked up, and "I'M DEFINETLY NOT SIDING WITH THE CRIMINAL". My brother-law is missing 100 head of cattle and some members here think he should look after his cattle better, but that is hard to do when you have alot of land. So maybe everybody has to change there ways to make it harder for criminals. Ask yourself this is it worth going to jail over a stupid object that is replaceable, and if it is go ahead and be a vigilanty.
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  #165  
Old 04-06-2009, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
I'm not blaming him, all I'm saying in this day in age you have to keep eveything locked up, and "I'M DEFINETLY NOT SIDING WITH THE CRIMINAL".
If we had a real justice system.you wouldn't have to lock everything up.If thieves knew that they were going to be shot at,they would think twice before stealing.
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  #166  
Old 04-06-2009, 12:35 PM
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I was adamantly against th approach Mr. Knight took, though sympathetic to his plight. I have to admit though that Mr. Gunter's reasoned arguments have me coming around. Not all the way there yet, but thinking "Hmmm... maybe". I guess a person CAN be convinced here on the board (as long as "you're an idiot" isn't part of the argument made).
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  #167  
Old 04-06-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy View Post
So maybe everybody has to change there ways to make it harder for criminals. Ask yourself this is it worth going to jail over a stupid object that is replaceable, and if it is go ahead and be a vigilanty.
Most folks already take precautions to avoid thefts etc. What more are we to do. The justice/legal system has to change. It appears these days we cannot rely on the law or the police to protect us at all. The police are doing what they can but their hands are tied and they are effectively useless, have proven so over and over again. It's not getting better it's getting worse. Because the gov't takes no action and has no plans to do so, I truly do believe the public will eventually have to take matters into their own hands and many will sacrifice their freedom for the gov't to get the message.
Perhaps if we started mugging politicians and judges on parliament hill, steal their cars, break into their houses and rape their daughters and murder their sons then let those offenders out to walk the sidewalk and lear, gesture and threaten them in front of their homes then they might get the picture. Let them sit in a courtroom while they watch the lawyers cross examine their daughter and show the public what a low down tramp she is, how it was her fault she was raped and not the rapists then let them watch the judge let off the rapist that defiled and beat their daughter with a 2 year conditional sentence with early probation. Take their security systems out of their monitored houses, take their bodyguards away, make them take the bus instead of the limo and make them live in a trailer park with partiers on one side and convicted dope dealing criminals on the other. I truly do believe the public will have to start killing politicians before anything changes.
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  #168  
Old 04-06-2009, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy View Post
you guys are foolish to support this guys actions hope they never let him own a gun again he is a fool like all his supporters
he did the right thing
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  #169  
Old 04-06-2009, 03:13 PM
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Dakota369 Dakota369 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
There has been a lot of testosterone floating about in this thread and that's a good thing..

But...Ask yourself this question..

Would you shoot someone in the back and possibly kill them over a Quad?

Before you go all Bubba on me...think of the repercussions(s/p),ok?

Are you willing to go to jail??

Unfortunatly the scenario is valid. You can end up going to jail if you defend yourself or your stuff. But since the thief/sack of crapp has made the decision that stealing your stuff is worth taking the chance of going to jail the least I and you can do is run the risk of going to jail by taking a shot at them with a shotgun, aim low and if your lucky they will live and just not be able to breed........
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  #170  
Old 04-06-2009, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by deerassassin View Post
he did the right thing
This isnt the wild west you dont have the right to shoot someone what a _______ to hide behind his gun .What is more frightening is the way some of you talk and you own gun's also.
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  #171  
Old 04-06-2009, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dakota369 View Post
Unfortunatly the scenario is valid. You can end up going to jail if you defend yourself or your stuff. But since the thief/sack of crapp has made the decision that stealing your stuff is worth taking the chance of going to jail the least I and you can do is run the risk of going to jail by taking a shot at them with a shotgun, aim low and if your lucky they will live and just not be able to breed........
A warning shot probably would have done the trick. No need to even come close to the guy to scare him into not coming back.
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  #172  
Old 04-06-2009, 04:32 PM
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I see this case as an extremely important one in terms of its potential to set a great precedent. I understand the trail is to take place in Stettler on April 9th, though I have yet to verify that. I encourage any board members who are a reasonable drive from there to attend. A massive turnout in support of Mr Knight is what I expect already, but I believe every extra citizen that attends is a good thing. It is my hope that the presiding judge realizes the enormity of his task, and rules in upholding the rights of a good citizen who was forced into an unfortunate chain of events by a small squad of degenerates. Mr Knights actions were certainly not deliberated, they were all defensive reactions. While many of us armchair quarterbacks can endlessly speculate and postulate theories about what he should have done from the comfort of our homes or offices, none of us were there.

I'm a big believer in Castle Doctrine, and was very impressed by the article by Lorne Gunter that Chain2 posted. That really summed up a great deal of my feeling about law enforcement: Law enforcement is our duty as citizens first; the police are just a supplement to us, empowered by us. Not the other way around. For order to prevail there has to be enforcement of laws. If the system is failing us it is our duty to correct it. The police and/or the judicial system are failing us by either:

1: Not apprehending the criminal
2: Not presenting sufficient detterent to criminal behaviour
3: Not punishing the guilty
4: Punishing the innocent or the victims

These failures are serious, and have created a snowball effect of recidivist criminals. As far as I am concerned, when the judiciary and police fail us so completely, it is important that we correct them and restart them on the correct path of serving us, Canada's citizens. If it takes what appears as vigilante actions or civil disobedience then so be it. Sometimes a galvanizing event such as this happens (and we're lucky that it has), and it can have great social benefits for us all; or conversely it can be yet another travesty which will only get us the citizenry more upset and perhaps more mobilized to institute the changes that need to happen. We are the power behind everything the Government, the Police and the Courts do, lets be sure if they're making mistakes we correct them.
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  #173  
Old 04-06-2009, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
Most folks already take precautions to avoid thefts etc. What more are we to do. The justice/legal system has to change. It appears these days we cannot rely on the law or the police to protect us at all. The police are doing what they can but their hands are tied and they are effectively useless, have proven so over and over again. It's not getting better it's getting worse. Because the gov't takes no action and has no plans to do so, I truly do believe the public will eventually have to take matters into their own hands and many will sacrifice their freedom for the gov't to get the message.
Perhaps if we started mugging politicians and judges on parliament hill, steal their cars, break into their houses and rape their daughters and murder their sons then let those offenders out to walk the sidewalk and lear, gesture and threaten them in front of their homes then they might get the picture. Let them sit in a courtroom while they watch the lawyers cross examine their daughter and show the public what a low down tramp she is, how it was her fault she was raped and not the rapists then let them watch the judge let off the rapist that defiled and beat their daughter with a 2 year conditional sentence with early probation. Take their security systems out of their monitored houses, take their bodyguards away, make them take the bus instead of the limo and make them live in a trailer park with partiers on one side and convicted dope dealing criminals on the other. I truly do believe the public will have to start killing politicians before anything changes.
Better yet, all people granted parole should have to live with or be sponsored by an MP,MLA,Judge,Parole board member and a defence lawyer. For some reason, I think the laws would change BIG TIME
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  #174  
Old 04-06-2009, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by river_runner View Post
This isnt the wild west you dont have the right to shoot someone what a _______ to hide behind his gun .What is more frightening is the way some of you talk and you own gun's also.

I hope for your sake one day your not laying in the dirt in the middle of the night with a knife stuck in your ribs thinking....hmmm I can't believe these innocent thieves were armed
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  #175  
Old 04-06-2009, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by deerassassin View Post
he did the right thing
Lets wait and see what the courts decide ok?

If Mr. Knight gets off scot free then yes I will say that he did the right thing.

However if he gets jail time or even just probation and is banned from owning firearms then I will say he did the wrong thing.

Once the thieves know he is not allowed to own firearms they will rip him off again and if by chance he does have another gun then he will be looking at jail time for sure.

So ask yourself if a quad is worth jail time and a criminal record?

My answer is no.
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  #176  
Old 04-06-2009, 10:40 PM
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Is a quad worth jail time...No...but...what if it his action brings about changes that bring things back on course? Then it is worth it. Kudos to Mr Knight for having the fortitude for doing the right thing and I sincerely hope everything works out and changes someday come about that will recognize a person's right to defend his property.
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  #177  
Old 04-06-2009, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Lets wait and see what the courts decide ok?

If Mr. Knight gets off scot free then yes I will say that he did the right thing.

However if he gets jail time or even just probation and is banned from owning firearms then I will say he did the wrong thing.

Once the thieves know he is not allowed to own firearms they will rip him off again and if by chance he does have another gun then he will be looking at jail time for sure.

So ask yourself if a quad is worth jail time and a criminal record?

My answer is no.

If Mr Knight gets off Scot free I too will say he did the right thing. Where Jester and I vary in opinion is that I feel if Mr Knight does not get off Scot free or something equating to a judicial rap on the knuckles, then I feel our courts will have failed us. He'll have still done the right thing, he'll just have to deal with some repercussions as a result.

Is a quad worth jail time and a criminal record? No

Is a principle worth sticking up for. Absolutely. Without people sticking up for principles, we're all screwed. Defending yourself, your family and your property against unprovoked theft and intrusion is paramount to every natural instinct we have. Its not something we need a written law to tell us. Its known by every human culture on earth, even among many communal animals. Wolves know this. Buffalo know this. Ants know this. Hold your ground or you might as well hand it over.

Jester is awaiting the courts decision to dictate his opinion for him. I've laid mine out already.
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  #178  
Old 04-06-2009, 11:32 PM
Jester Jester is offline
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Originally Posted by CaberTosser View Post

Jester is awaiting the courts decision to dictate his opinion for him. I've laid mine out already.
Oh Puh-lease.....I think I've stated my opinion quite clearly.

Do you really think he will get off Scot free???

Do you not understand sarcasm??

you said....

Quote:
Is a quad worth jail time and a criminal record? No
So you are saying that you would not have shot the bad guy but it's ok for someone else to take one for the team??
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  #179  
Old 04-06-2009, 11:32 PM
grandslamer grandslamer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 310
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Originally Posted by rugatika View Post
Is a quad worth jail time...No...but...what if it his action brings about changes that bring things back on course? Then it is worth it. Kudos to Mr Knight for having the fortitude for doing the right thing and I sincerely hope everything works out and changes someday come about that will recognize a person's right to defend his property.
your right shootings have always brings about more changes..
its called gun control and this case is sure to be use against law abiding gun owners when it comes time to vote on dismantling the gun registriy ..
and all these well meaning but foolish remarks such as SHOOT SHOVLE AND SHUT UP and other silly mob mentality comments are sure to used to show how evil we gun owner are. remember this is a public form. the anti gun groups monito these site for evidence againt us ..
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  #180  
Old 04-06-2009, 11:36 PM
Jester Jester is offline
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,384
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Originally Posted by grandslamer View Post
your right shootings have always brings about more changes..
its called gun control and this case is sure to be use against law abiding gun owners when it comes time to vote on dismantling the gun registriy ..
and all these well meaning but foolish remarks such as SHOOT SHOVLE AND SHUT UP and other silly mob mentality comments are sure to used to show how evil we gun owner are. remember this is a public form. the anti gun groups monito these site for evidence againt us ..
Thank God at least one guy sees the BIG picture.....kudos..
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