Fish in my dugout

[casual observer]

Am I the only one here having a hard time believing that there is no other water for six miles? SIX MILES? Come on, I don't think such a place exists in this province.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by EZM

Sundance,

I am not trying to prove anything - I am offering a plausible theory that is the most likely to be accurate based on what little we know.

"Gravel Stingers" are unlikely here as this is a dugout some 6 mile away from the nearest water source as per the OP.

Keep in mind "just because the students did not find evidence to support this theory does not mean it has been disproved"

If you have a degree in any science, you should be well aware of that.

Why don't you PROVE that a aqueduct under ground, which happen to come up exactly where the dugout was constructed, and brought sticklebacks over 6 miles ...... that would definitely be revolutionary. Just repeating it sound ridiculous.

Don't assume the people you are talking to on the forum are not qualified and educated to provide their thoughts or opinions. You might just be surprised on here.

The most likely scenario is over land flooding event or buckets. This concept of birds carrying fish and then stocking waters has been around for a long time...and surprisingly enough never proven.

Your comment about just because it is not studied or proven means nothing. So we all go back to then saying the aliens did it theory is equally likely.

So be it.

After studying fisheries, working in fisheries... I rely more on that and my scientific curiosity than a blog post to change my mind based upon existing evidence.

Still... your ideas are interesting to debate.

Cheers

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by wags

So, I don't have anything credible to offer here, but it might be something to build off.

I have a fishtank. It has fish. I feed the fish. I feed specific fish Algae wafers. Once in a while, I get a snail outbreak. I mean, literally hundreds of them. I've always been confused. I've never bought snails before. Where did they come from? Why is there so many?

So, what was described to me at the pet store is that the eggs can live in the algae wafers for some time, and when dropped in the tank and broken up/eaten and pooped out, the eggs can hatch.

Now I know we're discussing Stickleback vs snails, but I'm wondering if it's possible for a bird to eat a Stickleback 'nest' (as it was referred above) and can later poop the eggs with enough viability to hatch?

I agree with the general consensus that I would be amazed to find that birds cannot transport fish. As mentioned, the stomach juices will kill the fish in a short time, but, (showing my ignorance again, I'm sure), does the bird just eat it, or possibly carrying it somewhere? (An eagle dropped a fish in our boat once, and I understand different animals - different eating habits). Is this not plausible?

Cheers

It would be easy to test. We know the acidity of the birds stomach acid. Just drop the eggs in...wait a varying amount of time...then dump in a tank and see if the stickleback hatch.

It would be a very fun experiment.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Just had someone track it down for me. Brings back memories.

https://mail-attachment.googleuserco...NTIYNI8X5Fu4MQ

Not sure why the link did not work.

Here is the paper.

Robinson, C.L.K., and W.M. Tonn. 1989. Influence of environmental factors and piscivory in structuring fish assemblages of small Alberta Lakes. Can. J. Fish. Aquat. Sci. 46: 81-89.

[EZM]

The facts remain that fertilized eggs can be transplanted and they can subsequently hatch.

These eggs could be in the mud, muddy feathers, beak or feet of waterfowl and they could fly off and deposit them somewhere else.

I'm not sure a trip through the digestive tract is possible, as PH changes during this period would likely kill the eggs (or at least make all minnows into females - lol ) but who knows unless you do a controlled study on this.

The "hitching a ride" theory on the outside of a bird is a very reasonable and plausible theory. I'm really not sure why that seems "so impossible" as to compare it to aliens. That seems silly to me.

Although temperature changes, and moreso, "drying out" is likely to cause the eggs to die, it is a very reasonable theory that some could survive to make the trip from one watershed to the next. But if a "duck" picked up some hitchikers and flew to the next pond and dropped them off, it would not surprise me to find the eggs remain viable.

Remember these eggs are tiny sand like. If anyone has ever had their kids at the beach you know what I'm talking about ....

On the other hand I did not complete my graduate studies thesis on this topic - so maybe I'm wrong ..... I'm just saying, without dispute, this is absolutely possible and absolutely plausible.

We have never filmed, nor observed and proven, the mating habits of the African three eyed, yellow spotted, ring necked, winged unicorn toad ....... that doesn't mean it breeds through immaculate conception ...... the most plausible theory is that it mates ..... doesn't it? or maybe not ....... you decide.

I would support the hitchhiker theory ...... simply because it is possible. It is also very reasonable and far from a stretch. Seems pretty easy to get my little brain around.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by EZM

The facts remain that fertilized eggs can be transplanted and they can subsequently hatch.

These eggs could be in the mud, muddy feathers, beak or feet of waterfowl and they could fly off and deposit them somewhere else.

I'm not sure a trip through the digestive tract is possible, as PH changes during this period would likely kill the eggs (or at least make all minnows into females - lol ) but who knows unless you do a controlled study on this.

The "hitching a ride" theory on the outside of a bird is a very reasonable and plausible theory. I'm really not sure why that seems "so impossible" as to compare it to aliens. That seems silly to me.

Although temperature changes, and moreso, "drying out" is likely to cause the eggs to die, it is a very reasonable theory that some could survive to make the trip from one watershed to the next. But if a "duck" picked up some hitchikers and flew to the next pond and dropped them off, it would not surprise me to find the eggs remain viable.

Remember these eggs are tiny sand like. If anyone has ever had their kids at the beach you know what I'm talking about ....

On the other hand I did not complete my graduate studies thesis on this topic - so maybe I'm wrong ..... I'm just saying, without dispute, this is absolutely possible and absolutely plausible.

We have never filmed, nor observed and proven, the mating habits of the African three eyed, yellow spotted, ring necked, winged unicorn toad ....... that doesn't mean it breeds through immaculate conception ...... the most plausible theory is that it mates ..... doesn't it? or maybe not ....... you decide.

I would support the hitchhiker theory ...... simply because it is possible. It is also very reasonable and far from a stretch. Seems pretty easy to get my little brain around.

If it is plausible that ducks can transport fish... then does it not suggest that after a million years of ducks flying around that we would not have any ponds/lakes capable of holding said fish be devoid of fish? Are you thinking ducks are just very selective to where they take them?

For all those interested...in that study I posted...there are actual "secret" lakes that we discovered to have a lot of perch in...some big ones. The lat longs are in the study. Happy fishing! But send me a PM how you did please.

I could see belted kingfishers dropping a fish shortly after take off and it being live. The distance of 6 miles would likely be long enough the fish would suffocate or experience brain damage. In a gullet...acid and lack of oxygen would doom them.

I know clean gravel layers can extend for long distances within a flood plain or river valley system. That mean if you are away from a river...but in the valley and you dig down to a shallow gravel layer that is wet...small minnow fry could easily make their way there.

You could do a dye study...see if the water cleans up. The lakes at Elbow Springs Golf course all have actual flowing water in them. The water is Elbow River water.

So where the water perculates out of the river...so could a small minnow fry swim into.

Way more plausible. Sure anything is plausible...but there is a range from ...man that makes sense to man that is far fetched.

[CanadianBadass]

Originally Posted by EZM

The facts remain that fertilized eggs can be transplanted and they can subsequently hatch.

These eggs could be in the mud, muddy feathers, beak or feet of waterfowl and they could fly off and deposit them somewhere else.

I'm not sure a trip through the digestive tract is possible, as PH changes during this period would likely kill the eggs (or at least make all minnows into females - lol ) but who knows unless you do a controlled study on this.

The "hitching a ride" theory on the outside of a bird is a very reasonable and plausible theory. I'm really not sure why that seems "so impossible" as to compare it to aliens. That seems silly to me.

Although temperature changes, and moreso, "drying out" is likely to cause the eggs to die, it is a very reasonable theory that some could survive to make the trip from one watershed to the next. But if a "duck" picked up some hitchikers and flew to the next pond and dropped them off, it would not surprise me to find the eggs remain viable.

Remember these eggs are tiny sand like. If anyone has ever had their kids at the beach you know what I'm talking about ....

On the other hand I did not complete my graduate studies thesis on this topic - so maybe I'm wrong ..... I'm just saying, without dispute, this is absolutely possible and absolutely plausible.

We have never filmed, nor observed and proven, the mating habits of the African three eyed, yellow spotted, ring necked, winged unicorn toad ....... that doesn't mean it breeds through immaculate conception ...... the most plausible theory is that it mates ..... doesn't it? or maybe not ....... you decide.

I would support the hitchhiker theory ...... simply because it is possible. It is also very reasonable and far from a stretch. Seems pretty easy to get my little brain around.

I 100% agree with this theory ! I have heard on many occasions of guys taking about birds carrying eggs, or fish from pond to pond,

I also 100% agree that your theory is much more plausible then Aliens, The Bucket Brigade, or any other theory posted on this thread.

A good friend of mine has a pond very close to Big Lake Alberta and his pond has stickleback, and other types of minnows. We have discussed many times on how they were placed into the pond. On every case of us discussing this, the only thoughts were always birds carrying them.... Im not a Rocket scientist , but this seems very very very plausible.... Even though Sundance says it can not...... But like the guy who was told by the doctor he will never walk again, and now he walks to work every day ! ! ! ! ! Things can happen even though a professional says otherwise !

[Wild&Free]

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27298939

Something like this perhaps.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27298939

Something like this perhaps.

There you go. This has been documented before.

[Chief16]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Not sure why the link did not work.

Here is the paper.

Robinson, C.L.K., and W.M. Tonn. 1989. Influence of environmental factors and piscivory in structuring fish assemblages of small Alberta Lakes. Can. J. Fish. Aquat. Sci. 46: 81-89.

I think it would be best if you actually gave this paper a read over again. It touches briefly on dispersal but that was not the main objective of the paper. There is no way that you can use this paper in the current debate going on about fish being transported by birds.

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by casual observer

Am I the only one here having a hard time believing that there is no other water for six miles? SIX MILES? Come on, I don't think such a place exists in this province.

serious? come down this way, why do you think there are so many miles of manmade canals and all the reservoirs

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Equally trust me that if the river is feet away and connected with gravel that that is a very likely pathway for fish to travel.

Also trust me when I say a cormorant eats a fish...the strong stomach acid is bad for their existence. I would agree that if a cormorant eats a live minnow and instantly barfs it up there is a chance it could live.

Agreeing to disagree on my points is fine. All just an interesting discussion. I miss this part of my scientific fisheries training and experience. When I am independently wealthy I would love to study another new pond in that area. Or just come fish the dugout for fun!

As an aside, I have on two instances captured brook sticklebacks while collecting water samples in ground water monitoring wells. Sticklebacks apparently can navigate the interstitial spaces in the gravel.

[greylynx]

Good to know they were not nine spine sticklebacks.

Now where would they have come from?

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Good to know they were not nine spine sticklebacks.

Now where would they have come from?

One of the great mysteries of the universe...

Errr wait...didn't we already establish that it was aliens?

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

If it is plausible that ducks can transport fish... then does it not suggest that after a million years of ducks flying around that we would not have any ponds/lakes capable of holding said fish be devoid of fish? Are you thinking ducks are just very selective to where they take them?

The conditions for transplantation must be nearly perfect ..... Water quality, temperature, predation, deposit location not to mention the fertilized eggs must be kept moist and relatively promptly moved without damage to them.

Keep in mind there is only a short window of days, once per year this could occur in each watershed.

If it was easy, then your theory would find that all ponds would have minnows in them. I'm guessing the odds are extraordinary to have all the conditions line up for this transplantation to be successful.

I'm sure for every million eggs a "duck" picks up, maybe a few are viable, and only a few places they visit subsequently, support these required favorable conditions.

Then, if the fry hatch, they need to survive and begin to populate that pond.

It is, however, possible and plausible. This fact cannot be intelligently disputed.

I expect an educated biologist (or scientist) to understand if these basic conditions are met, irregardless of the probability, that they will, in fact, demonstrate that this is not as far of a stretch as you might imagine given the history of ecology on our planet.

At some point, everything will line up just right, and it will happen.

There is no doubt that through ground water, during high water floods, through water spout etc.... species have been relocated and transported ..... but to discount the possibility of transplantation through avian means would be very short sighted.

Remember one thing, we, mankind, originated from slime - not from ribs. This is, in fact, the leading scientific theory behind our evolution ..... do you think that was easy?

I hope I didn't open a can of worms with that last statement ..... but you cannot call yourself a scientist without accepting that this last statement regarding humankind is a possible and plausible theory AND far less far fetched compared to simple avian transplantation of live fish eggs from one viable ecosystem to another viable ecosystem on occasion.

Either way - peace ......... BTW global warming is REAL it's 12 degrees here today

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Geezle

.

Geezle's a jerk.



look what he went n' dun

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by EZM

The conditions for transplantation must be nearly perfect ..... Water quality, temperature, predation, deposit location not to mention the fertilized eggs must be kept moist and relatively promptly moved without damage to them.

Keep in mind there is only a short window of days, once per year this could occur in each watershed.

If it was easy, then your theory would find that all ponds would have minnows in them. I'm guessing the odds are extraordinary to have all the conditions line up for this transplantation to be successful.

I'm sure for every million eggs a "duck" picks up, maybe a few are viable, and only a few places they visit subsequently, support these required favorable conditions.

Then, if the fry hatch, they need to survive and begin to populate that pond.

It is, however, possible and plausible. This fact cannot be intelligently disputed.

I expect an educated biologist (or scientist) to understand if these basic conditions are met, irregardless of the probability, that they will, in fact, demonstrate that this is not as far of a stretch as you might imagine given the history of ecology on our planet.

At some point, everything will line up just right, and it will happen.

There is no doubt that through ground water, during high water floods, through water spout etc.... species have been relocated and transported ..... but to discount the possibility of transplantation through avian means would be very short sighted.

Remember one thing, we, mankind, originated from slime - not from ribs. This is, in fact, the leading scientific theory behind our evolution ..... do you think that was easy?

I hope I didn't open a can of worms with that last statement ..... but you cannot call yourself a scientist without accepting that this last statement regarding humankind is a possible and plausible theory AND far less far fetched compared to simple avian transplantation of live fish eggs from one viable ecosystem to another viable ecosystem on occasion.

Either way - peace ......... BTW global warming is REAL it's 12 degrees here today

If the odds were extraordinary then why so many on here swears it to be true. That new dugouts have minnows so quickly and so far away from water?

So if a billion years allows slime to become EZM it should be easy for a million years of ducks flying to move fish around.

Maybe if is just a coincidence it took slime people arriving before fish started mysteriously popping up in lakes where they were not before.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

As an aside, I have on two instances captured brook sticklebacks while collecting water samples in ground water monitoring wells. Sticklebacks apparently can navigate the interstitial spaces in the gravel.

Stop toying with us that you are providing evidence of this. Actually so very interesting you should mention if to Dr Post at u of c.

This whole topic would make a number of excellent masters thesis.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Northwinds

I have 4 man made lakes,the result of a ongoing gravel mining operation.
All are close to the Battle River,of the 4 ,2 of these are land locked.Water filters through the gravel and has to be pumped out 24/7 in order to mine the gravel out.Once completed,the pumps are shut off and the reclamation and lake construction begins.The first thing that's made is the buram around the lake.We strive to get this higher then the 100 year flood mark by at least 10 feet.There is no possibility that minnows or other aquatic life gets into these lakes during construction.All have minnows and Stickle backs in them now.
The lakes have been turned into a commercial trout farm,now one of the daily duties is to keep birds away from the fish.The greatest culprit is a Commerant.Several times I have witnessed these birds throwing up everything in there stomachs when frightened and then flying off.I believe they do this to make the load lighter.When you rush over in the boat to see what they have hurled up,not only trout are there but minnows.These minnows/sticklebacks are often alive.I believe the birds feed in the river and then decide to feed in one of my lakes.I just happen to show up(on a frequent basis) and scare them.I promise you that birds do transport live fish,especially when the bodies of water are just seconds apart. Birds may not be the answer to every bodies mysterious stocking of minnows,but in my case,I can assure you they are.

If you find birds taking off and barfing up live'ish minnows I would first suggest ...yes they just ate them in the pond. How they got to the pond still remains the mystery.

There is a chance that if you received eggs from outside that maybe the water or the eggs had some fry or minnow eggs associated with them.

There are many sources of contamination. Buckets, flooding, subsurface water flow, incoming fish eggs.

I would consider these first before looking at the most unlikely scenario of birds.

[AppleJax]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

If the odds were extraordinary then why so many on here swears it to be true. That new dugouts have minnows so quickly and so far away from water?



So if a billion years allows slime to become EZM it should be easy for a million years of ducks flying to move fish around.



Maybe if is just a coincidence it took slime people arriving before fish started mysteriously popping up in lakes where they were not before.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dMjQ3hA9mEA

[FlyTheory]

What if you modified the Drake equation to meet the probability of completely isolated man made lakes (with no runoff or underground waterways) containing stickleback

Having said that, why don't you bird theorists look into the average acidity of a bird's stomach.
And yes although I believe this may happen - where some waterfowl successfully keeps a fish alive somehow on/in its body- the PROBABILITY of that successfully happening (of successful pick up, transport, fish mortality, etc.) is so low guys... For every isolated man made pitmine to be stocked by birds, as claimed, the frequency of bird transport must be much higher than feasible. With still no concrete documented scientific proof, we cannot fully accept the idea. Yet as people practicing scientific theory, we must be able to dismiss old facts and hypotheses disproved by new PROVEN research data. Which unfortunately, hasn't been the case for the birds transporting fish.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by FlyTheory

What if you modified the Drake equation to meet the probability of completely isolated man made lakes (with no runoff or underground waterways) containing stickleback

Having said that, why don't you bird theorists look into the average acidity of a bird's stomach.
And yes although I believe this may happen - where some waterfowl successfully keeps a fish alive somehow on/in its body- the PROBABILITY of that successfully happening (of successful pick up, transport, fish mortality, etc.) is so low guys... For every isolated man made pitmine to be stocked by birds, as claimed, the frequency of bird transport must be much higher than feasible. With still no concrete documented scientific proof, we cannot fully accept the idea. Yet as people practicing scientific theory, we must be able to dismiss old facts disproved by new hypotheses PROVEN by research. Which unfortunately, hasn't been the case for the birds transporting fish.

The drake equation has nothing to do with the anything remotely related to this particular question and theory.

You are suggesting we should just throw out all of the standard testing protcols and modify a silly hypothesis that would result in a more accurate data set and subsequent conclusion ?

There are, in fact, standard best and accepted practices associated with scientific study inclusive of probability to determine feasibility to support theory. They are proven. These methods are not disputed by any scientific community or faculty in the world.

But heck, let' re-invent them from a totally different starting point.

This has to be the most ridiculous post, epic fail be-dazzle maneuver, I have ever read from someone who is clearly trying to sound intelligent that has absolutely no clue what he/she is talking about.

[FlyTheory]

Originally Posted by EZM

The drake equation has nothing to do with the anything remotely related to this particular question and theory.

You are suggesting we should just throw out all of the standard testing protcols and modify a silly hypothesis that would result in a more accurate data set and subsequent conclusion ?

There are, in fact, standard best and accepted practices associated with scientific study inclusive of probability to determine feasibility to support theory. They are proven. These methods are not disputed by any scientific community or faculty in the world.

But heck, let' re-invent them from a totally different starting point.

This has to be the most ridiculous post, epic fail be-dazzle maneuver, I have ever read from someone who is clearly trying to sound intelligent that has absolutely no clue what he/she is talking about.

Woah, that was a harsh comment towards some humor. People mentioning aliens... inhabiting isolated areas.. I was trying to lighten the atmosphere. We get that you're an aggressive person who seems to get off on arguing.

EZM you have not shown any proof through those papers you sent over, nor have you backed up your ideas with research done by others that live fish can be transported (either in other parts of the world, or locally). Yes, fathead minnow eggs may be hardy I don't dispute that, (http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/z91-294 the second paragraph introduction of this paper backs up your claim that fathead minnows are hardy in a multitude of environments. I am aware that the information in the paper pertaining to what I'm talking about was derived from a different source), but that still does not justify the high probability rate of this happening. Do you know where fathead minnows place their eggs? Under rocks and logs. As for stickleback, their nests are built on either weed clumps or underwater structure. How do you expect a duck to get a 3cm algae nest stuck to its feet? These eggs don't simply litter the bottom of a lake.
Obviously over time there has to be an exception to the rule and a bird will transport an egg clutch to a a different water body (which I stated earlier, but said that the chances were low). Again, there is no scientific proof, although we can use assumptions, and that would not hold up in a university study or a presentation.
Amphipods are not fish by the way, so although birds transport them, do you expect them to react the same to trauma and have just as high survival rates? I'm glad you know how to use google scholar though, it sure helps bs-ing your way through this subject.

I am not going to further butt heads with you. You clearly you didn't notice that I am in favor of the idea that birds transfer fish in rare situations,

And yes although I believe this may happen - where some waterfowl successfully keeps a fish alive somehow on/in its body

and it makes sense that over time an enigma will occur. I am simply stating my interpretation on this conversation. Cheers.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by FlyTheory

Woah, that was a harsh comment towards some humor. People mentioning aliens... inhabiting isolated areas.. I was trying to lighten the atmosphere. We get that you're an aggressive person who seems to get off on arguing.

EZM you have not shown any proof through those papers you sent over, nor have you backed up your ideas with research done by others that live fish can be transported (either in other parts of the world, or locally). Yes, fathead minnow eggs may be hardy I don't dispute that, (http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/z91-294 the second paragraph introduction of this paper backs up your claim that fathead minnows are hardy in a multitude of environments. I am aware that the information in the paper pertaining to what I'm talking about was derived from a different source), but that still does not justify the high probability rate of this happening. Do you know where fathead minnows place their eggs? Under rocks and logs. As for stickleback, their nests are built on either weed clumps or underwater structure. How do you expect a duck to get a 3cm algae nest stuck to its feet? These eggs don't simply litter the bottom of a lake.
Obviously over time there has to be an exception to the rule and a bird will transport an egg clutch to a a different water body (which I stated earlier, but said that the chances were low). Again, there is no scientific proof, although we can use assumptions, and that would not hold up in a university study or a presentation.
Amphipods are not fish by the way, so although birds transport them, do you expect them to react the same to trauma and have just as high survival rates? I'm glad you know how to use google scholar though, it sure helps bs-ing your way through this subject.

I am not going to further butt heads with you. You clearly you didn't notice that I am in favor of the idea that birds transfer fish in rare situations, and it makes sense that over time an enigma will occur. I am simply stating my interpretation on this conversation. Cheers.

Epic successful post.

slow clap

slow clap

slow clap

[Chief16]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

If you find birds taking off and barfing up live'ish minnows I would first suggest ...yes they just ate them in the pond. How they got to the pond still remains the mystery.

There is a chance that if you received eggs from outside that maybe the water or the eggs had some fry or minnow eggs associated with them.

There are many sources of contamination. Buckets, flooding, subsurface water flow, incoming fish eggs.

I would consider these first before looking at the most unlikely scenario of birds.

Why are you so unwilling to accept the fact that the bird hypothesis is plausible? You have literally given no reason for anyone to take your side, except for an outdated paper with have minimal support for you and restatement of things you have already said. If you are indeed "trained and educated in fisheries" you should know the scientific method and be more open to other ideas.

[Morph1]

Originally Posted by EZM

The facts remain that fertilized eggs can be transplanted and they can subsequently hatch.

These eggs could be in the mud, muddy feathers, beak or feet of waterfowl and they could fly off and deposit them somewhere else.

I'm not sure a trip through the digestive tract is possible, as PH changes during this period would likely kill the eggs (or at least make all minnows into females - lol ) but who knows unless you do a controlled study on this.

The "hitching a ride" theory on the outside of a bird is a very reasonable and plausible theory. I'm really not sure why that seems "so impossible" as to compare it to aliens. That seems silly to me.

Although temperature changes, and moreso, "drying out" is likely to cause the eggs to die, it is a very reasonable theory that some could survive to make the trip from one watershed to the next. But if a "duck" picked up some hitchikers and flew to the next pond and dropped them off, it would not surprise me to find the eggs remain viable.

Remember these eggs are tiny sand like. If anyone has ever had their kids at the beach you know what I'm talking about ....

On the other hand I did not complete my graduate studies thesis on this topic - so maybe I'm wrong ..... I'm just saying, without dispute, this is absolutely possible and absolutely plausible.

We have never filmed, nor observed and proven, the mating habits of the African three eyed, yellow spotted, ring necked, winged unicorn toad ....... that doesn't mean it breeds through immaculate conception ...... the most plausible theory is that it mates ..... doesn't it? or maybe not ....... you decide.

I would support the hitchhiker theory ...... simply because it is possible. It is also very reasonable and far from a stretch. Seems pretty easy to get my little brain around.

Great response x10 on the theory , but wait a second nahh it.must've been the bucket platoon creeping at night to purposely infest your pond with stickle back .... at least that's what they said in school... anything different is simply impossible because some guy in the past studied biology and fails to lean towards logical possibilities... I wonder who bucket spawned all these people in Europe.....

Sundancefisher I recommend you remove that hard hat once in a while before going to sleep, it'll perhaps make your brain more flexible to ideas ....

[AlbertaCutthroat]

I think it's highly likely Brook Stickleback of all species can move this way. They often occur in super high densities in very small sloughs and egg density in the weeds would also be fairly high. I have found alive stickleback in my wading boots after walking several kilometers back to the truck, I have also seen animals such as elk and moose covered in aquatic vegetation which would be another mode of transport (stickleback have got to the be the toughest fish in the province, they can survive out of the water for prolonged periods of time).

Another observation I have had is when shooting ducks and geese it is common to notice alive scuds and other aquatic organisms come out of the plumage while processing. I think stickleback and fathead minnow are as tolerant as scuds and most invertebrates so transport by this means is very likely compared to transport of perch or most other fish species.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by FlyTheory

Cheers.

Welcome to the forum ..... I wouldn't suggest it to anyone to post an opinion if you are not willing to discuss / defend it.

I am comfortable in discussing my position, without prejudice. Sundance, who is crazy by the way, and I have had excellent debates on a number of topics. Both of us share some background in this area of study. Despite the ribbing we give each other, there is respect between us long time forum members. Sundance thinks I'm crazy but he's wrong. He wears a tin foil hat, I choose not to ..... no big deal.

The purpose of this forum is to share thoughts, ideas, knowledge and provide each other with some good natured entertainment now and again.

I have been wrong once or twice before on here before ..... but this isn't one of them.

I am simply stating my opinion on a theory which is plausible.

Anyways nice 5th post. If you don't know how things work just sit back and watch. There is no disrespect intended, but I expect to be challenged if I propose an idea ....... and I'm comfortable with that ....... are you? (no response required as it is a rhetorical question).

Anyways ...... welcome to the forum and buckle your seat belt.

[cube]

Originally Posted by Chief16

Why are you so unwilling to accept the fact that the bird hypothesis is plausible? You have literally given no reason for anyone to take your side, except for an outdated paper with have minimal support for you and restatement of things you have already said. If you are indeed "trained and educated in fisheries" you should know the scientific method and be more open to other ideas.

Actually the "Scientific Method" is very close minded. It requires evidence and proof to support the position which very few other than Sundace has done here. Absolutely nothing says Science has to be open minded and governed solely by logic and human reasoning. Pretty sure Galileo put that to rest a few hundred years ago.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Chief16

I think it would be best if you actually gave this paper a read over again. It touches briefly on dispersal but that was not the main objective of the paper. There is no way that you can use this paper in the current debate going on about fish being transported by birds.

Actually I was there. Read it. For there to be fish you need tributary access.