Stop commercial fishing on Lake McGregor

[weedcatcher]

I'm a fan of Pikester's line of thinking.

A rotating system where the lakes get a chance to recover.

The increase in Whites will help pike populations by giving more for them to eat. But if the Whites are left unchecked, then they'll start to over-run the Walleyes.

A careful balance needs to be maintained, and that will require close monitoring of populations in EACH individual lake.

I do NOT think that the commercial fishing industry in Alberta is monitored enough. To do it right will require more biologists, and a far greater understanding of populations in each lake.

Not the 'Do it like we've done for decades" kind of approach we have now.

[antlercarver]

I used to have a commercial netting license which I sold to another fisherman. I was a 3rd generation commercial fisherman a know that a net can be set in a way or place to target a species. I could set to catch hundreds of pounds of whites and rarely catch a pike or pic, or the the reverse is also true. I only netted maybe 5 perch out of several years and many ton of whites but there is very few perch left compared to the large schools I used to see. I have seen 30-40 vehicles of anglers on the ice taking their perch limit day after day all winter long. Wildlife management is often pressurized into situations not the best for the animals,the east coast cod could be a good example. Everyone who catches a fish by any means is part of the problem and can be part of the solution.

[mclean]

There is no way to prevent sports fish from being harvested with the use gill nets. Therefore revenues collected from the sale of the sportsfish by the netters should be re-invested back into the reservoirs and or their management.In southern alberta the net size is as rule 51/2 inches any walleye or pike that hits that net is caught.
The commercial fishing operaters would have you believe that there is a 100% honesty in the industry. Certainly the puplic has experienced things quite differently on many occasion.
The economic value of sports fishing v/s commercial fishing is a 70:1 ratio. This clearly indicates where the priority and the importance of proper management of the fishing resource should be Tourism and local businesses would also benefit if these lakes become known as better class fisheries.

[muddywaters]

Gentlemen fellow anglers,

I want to tank you very much for taking the time and getting the discussion going on commercial fishing. I would like to particularly thank the fellow anglers who took the time, read and signed the petition that I started. It will not happen without your help and involvement. Once again, I thank you.

I have fished for 37 years in total and Lake McGregor in particular for 14 years. On McGregor I like to flyfish in the summer (whitefish on San Juan Worm) and jig in the winter (small spoons). Years ago I used to catch big wallyes on jigs with Powerbait worms but because the limit was zero, I stopped and switched to whitefish.

I know in my heart that I am not mistaken when I say the quality of the sports fishing on Lake McGregor has greatly deteriorated for the past 6-8 years. A number of you have noticed the same thing and we all noticed how much of a toll the commericial fishing takes. That is why I started this petition. I truly believe is the right thing for the majority of the stakeholders.

I have also contacted the Alberta Fish & Game Association and the CBC Radio. The AFGA has not responded but the CBC is looking into this. If we are lucky, they will bring it into the public eye and more data will become available, data that will allow all of us to form a better opinion.

In the mean time I encourage you all to invite your friends, your fishing pals, simpathetic organizations, anyone you think may want to consider this petition to join in. You have already shown a strong backbone standing up for what you believe - kudos to you. But, there is strength in numbers and we need the numbers.

As I will know more, I will let you know. If you have any good ideas that can further this issue and that I missed, please take leadership, bring them to life and I for one will follow.

Cheers
muddywaters

[huntsfurfish]

People here might want to be carefull what they wish for. Has anyone thought about what repercussions there might be if commercial fishing ended?

Has anyone thought about how much easier it might be to eliminate/restrict sportfishing with out a valuable ally in the commercial fishing industry(hard to argue about a food source)?

When it becomes more sport fishing oriented it makes for an easier target!

There are other benefits of comercial fishing which I have posted about before (do some searches).

And in reality commercial fishing doesnt hurt the sport fishing as much as you might think.

Good to see the, if they can then wheres my share attitude too.

Sport fishermen take more than their share if you count poaching. (ya I know you dont want to consider them fishermen and want to disasociate with them, but they are fishermen whether you like it or not!)

Darn didnt want to get into this one.

PS I am a sport fisherman and have never been a commercial fisherman.

[gergarin]

Whitefish are a valuable species especially on a plate with cream sauce & fresh esparagass. Commercial fishing of this species is historic.Would you rather they fished rainbows or cutthroat? The commercial fishery will remain.

Although I and many others fish whitefish as a sport they are not considered one of alberta's prime sport fish, nor are they considered great sport anywere else for that matter. They love to feed on other species eggs. Stop the fishery and pretty soon that is all you will catch.

[pikester]

Originally Posted by gergarin

Whitefish are a valuable species especially on a plate with cream sauce & fresh esparagass. Commercial fishing of this species is historic.Would you rather they fished rainbows or cutthroat? The commercial fishery will remain.

Although I and many others fish whitefish as a sport they are not considered one of alberta's prime sport fish, nor are they considered great sport anywere else for that matter. They love to feed on other species eggs. Stop the fishery and pretty soon that is all you will catch.

The fact that we as an angling society haven't fully got to a point where we can truly appreciate the fighting quality of the Lake whitefish is our collective shame & ignorance, not a true reflection of their sporting quality. I have to disagree that whitefish are not appreciated as a sportfish in other places, they are getting to be a pretty big deal in Ontario & the northeast states. If you don't believe me then check out all the icefishing magazines going back a couple years, there are more & more articles every year on how to catch Lake whitefish & even In-fisherman TV has done some shows on these fish. Pound for pound they fight better than any other fish that can be caught through the ice as I found out for the first time a couple seasons ago. Now I cant stop trying to catch them!

They do feed somewhat on the eggs of other species but this is overplayed, it wasn't that many years ago that same argument was used to justify trying to eradicate Bull trout & Burbot.

[rustynailz]

Originally Posted by pikester

That's kind of along the lines of what I would like to see happen; not a total ban but a small, specific list of lakes based on hectare/volume size where this could occur with a negligable impact on stocks. The other solution to alow commercial netting to continue on southern reservoirs would be to have a rolling, alternating allotment on a lake by lake basis wherein no lake could be commercially fished 2 years in a row & maybe a minimum of 3 to 4 years between harvests allowed on each lake. This is loosely based on a similar idea as crop rotation I suppose lol.

Your logic and ideas make WAY too much sense to ever get incorporated here.

[mclean]

I agree that white fish do eat other fishes eggs, and they eat thier own eggs, perch eat white fish eggs as well,
Show us the proof, example if there was no commercial fishing on lake x where there is a good population of walleye, pike, perch, burbot, white fish, suckers.
Show us the science on this problem some say this fisherie will be in big trouble if white fish are not commercialy netted, why was there good fisheries before commercial fishing ever started , i,m sure the David Suzukies of the fish world will lead us out of the dark on this one.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by pikester

They do feed somewhat on the eggs of other species but this is overplayed, it wasn't that many years ago that same argument was used to justify trying to eradicate Bull trout & Burbot.

I sure agree with this statement.

In concert with commercial gill net fishing of Lake Whitefish is the revelation that this form of harvest is selecting for the genetically larger fish. As a result, some commercially harvested populations of Lake Whitefish are becoming physically smaller, comprised of those fish with the genetics to reproduce at a smaller size.

Personally, my biggest concern with Commercial fishing in Alberta is the wasted burbot. Thousands of pounds of burbot are legally left to rot on the ice each winter.

A couple of threads from the spring on this waste.

Leave those Stinking Burbot to Rot !!!

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...=wasted+burbot

Perfectly Legal To Waste Burbot

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...=wasted+burbot

[Badback]

Well I have to say that after reading the replies and checking the links to some pictures, it was an eye opener...There are good points on both sides...

[gergarin]

Originally Posted by pikester

The fact that we as an angling society haven't fully got to a point where we can truly appreciate the fighting quality of the Lake whitefish is our collective shame & ignorance, not a true reflection of their sporting quality. I have to disagree that whitefish are not appreciated as a sportfish in other places, they are getting to be a pretty big deal in Ontario & the northeast states. If you don't believe me then check out all the icefishing magazines going back a couple years, there are more & more articles every year on how to catch Lake whitefish & even In-fisherman TV has done some shows on these fish. Pound for pound they fight better than any other fish that can be caught through the ice as I found out for the first time a couple seasons ago. Now I cant stop trying to catch them!

They do feed somewhat on the eggs of other species but this is overplayed, it wasn't that many years ago that same argument was used to justify trying to eradicate Bull trout & Burbot.

I was born in Ontario so I am quite familiar with fishing lake whitefish. They are commercially fished there as well. Ice fishing for whitefish around lake huron and Georgian Bay developed after they began to be caught by splake(brook trout/lake trout cross) fishermen on yes you guessed it roe or eggs.Bull trout & other true trout of which the bull trout is not(char) spawn in creeks & rivers. Lake trout spawn on shoals in lakes. After the native population crashed from over fishing in the great lake and the population were at risk , it was the egg eating whitefish that finaly pushed the population to extinction in that part of the great lakes basin. The Splake program , using various cross of lakers & brookies & lakers again to shorten the maturaty cycle to increase the breading effectiveness. Even with these efforts the exisstance of the heavily commercially fished whitefish holds the population as stable ,not expanding.

The whitefish has its place, the only thing that keeps it from eliminating all other species in the lake is were it likes to live. It generally lives in deeper water than pike or other species use and again they, whitefish, spawn in the lake unlike their cousin the rocky mountain whitefish that does assend rivers. Whitefish are sometimes found in rivers I know, but not during the critical spawning period of the species afore mentioned,thus no predation on the eggs.

The whitefish is not all that good a fighter and needs to be lined gently because of its small soft mouth,also making them deficult to hook. It is not to say they are not a sport fish at all. As far as your magazine is concerned, carp fishing has also been growing in Ontario and is popularized in some magazines. Growing up, they made great fertilizer and on a rod a 40 lb carp was a gas. Not many people eat them though.

The true value of the whitefish is and always will be as a commercial species.Well maybe as a food fishery for my native relatives as it has been for centuries.

Lets all take a moment and hug a tree or pet a burrowing owl or two. Unlike the owl, the whitefish is far from being endangered.

[mongo]

for those of ya who have singed this PERT ,wondering if ya added up how many fish (whitefish ) would be in mcgregor if it is stoped.90500 kg a year would be close to 90000 whitefish,say in five years time 450,000 whitefish also reproducing which only god knows how many more that would be at least double ,maybe triple ,or more. so what you want is to inject millions of whitefish into the lake to eat as many pike , walleye eggs & fry as possible (which is what there great at ) . really curious how this is going to help our lakes .

[muddywaters]

Hello everybody,

I promised to keep you informed: CBC has taken an interest in our issue!!! They have read our thread and have done their investigation. Apparently they have updated numbers on commercial fisheries in Alberta and these numbers are bigger than the ones I dug out. The bottom line is they want to do an interview and make this issue public - don't know when it will happen yet. Wow! I sense that us (the many anglers who notice a decline in the quality of the sports fishing) will have a voice out to the public. That is great and I thank CBC for it.

I also hope not to dissapoint you, the supporter of the petition. Please keep your opinions coming. We are gathering momentum. I will let you know if I find anything else.

muddywaters

[slingshotz]

Some good points but the one point I really don't understand is how if left unchecked the whitefish will over run the place. If that was really true, then technically pike, perch and walleye would be extinct. Everything in the lake will balance itself out unless something or someone comes around and screws up the system (like putting perch in Sundance without any predators).

Whitefish and perch are designed to breed fast and numerous for food like pike and walleye. One of the reasons we don't get huge pike and walleye is that their food souce are being taken out quicker than they can reproduce. I think that the netting should be managed better like the crab fishery, release the females, keep the right sized males.

However, I do think that the netting quotas are too high but I'd like to hear from people that have studied and understand the quotas. Most of us here only have part of the picture.

[mclean]

slingshotz, i agree with you, some people would like you to think that it would be the end of a fisherie if white fish went unchecked, what happened in the past before humans where in the picture, nature has its own checks and balances, white fish pop. increaces so does walleye,and pike, burbot,sucker,perch, the fisheries survived quite well before humans came into the picture.

[muddywaters]

Good morning guys!

I have news from the CBC. If all goes well, I will have the chance to speak with Mr. Jim Brown from CBC Calgary Eye-Opener, live at ~6:45 am on Monday morning, December 13, 2010. If you are awake at that time, you will have the chance to phone in with your opinions (either pro or con). The phone number is 403.521.6200. Talk to you then mates.

Cheers,
muddywaters

[Gust]

Originally Posted by slingshotz

Some good points but the one point I really don't understand is how if left unchecked the whitefish will over run the place. If that was really true, then technically pike, perch and walleye would be extinct. Everything in the lake will balance itself out unless something or someone comes around and screws up the system (like putting perch in Sundance without any predators).

Whitefish and perch are designed to breed fast and numerous for food like pike and walleye. One of the reasons we don't get huge pike and walleye is that their food souce are being taken out quicker than they can reproduce. I think that the netting should be managed better like the crab fishery, release the females, keep the right sized males.

However, I do think that the netting quotas are too high but I'd like to hear from people that have studied and understand the quotas. Most of us here only have part of the picture.

I mentioned in a previous post that the method used does but does not catch as many pike and walleye as one would think, pikester has some really good points on commercial fishing.

I also take the stand above and a few other decent arguements in the debate before I sign a petition. I fish for sport and eat and to a non-fisherperson this activity seems equally as ludicrous as how "we" perceive a commercial fishery.

When were the walleye introduced to MacGregor? Some feel that this has changed the fishery somewhat too.

So many valid arguements.

And to the person who thinks that whitefish aren't a sport fish,, WoW!!! have you ever caught a larger on on a fly, hola!!!

[whiskybaron]

Having a comercial fishery in Alberta is ludicrise. It employs very few people and brings in very little revenue as compared to the economy boost that sport fisherman give. We have our limits cut every year in almost all waterbodies and they still alloy thousands of pounds of fish to be netted to help support a very limited base of people.

To say you are taking someones lively hood away is wrong. I bet there is not one person in this province that makes thier sole income on fishing it is a second job and hobby for most. The lake I fish has had the wlleye limit cut to 1 because there are not enough to sustain harvest ok I understand but why then is there any quota on them commercially?

I ran into the fisheries bioligsit last year doing his net cheks and he told us point blank there was no walleye quota on the lake ran into a commercial guy at thte launch and he was going to set his net to try for some of the walleyer quota, biologist point blank lied because he didn't want to admitt it to the public that they allow walleye catch after cutting the limit.

It boils down to the sportsman are far greater in number and spend far more on the sport than the commercial guys and if there is no room for both in most of thtis province then it makes sense to let the commercial fuisherie go the way of thte albetrose.

Just my personal opinion though.

[trainerdave]

What is not mentioned of course is the fact that without irrigation projects,there would be almost no sizeable fisheries of any kind in southern Alberta. So here's to the government for that one...our tax dollars at work...I was talking to a senior official in the local government about Twin valley reservoir and their plans for stocking that lake-as it is a very decent size lake with potential-like Mcgregor- once the mercury levels drop. That was a few years ago. He told me they would not be putting lake whitefish, yellow perch or walleye in there due to this exact issue...too much trouble between the commercial and recreational fishermen- Just suckers,pike and burbot or whatever floats down the little bow from High River that can survive...too bad. What about a commercial crayfish fishery in Mcg. as they have been eating fish eggs in there for years...just throwing that out there for the fish eating eggs crowd. BTW the lake whitefish at Mcgregor used to have a huge problem with parasites in their flesh...not sure if that was partially due to overpopulation...obviousy there needs to be controls in place for many of these artificial fisheries...The lake whitefish in southern AB originally came out of lesser slave lake stock and were placed as eyed eggs in Mcgregor and Newell and spread from there...

[muddywaters]

Gentlemen,

Looks like I got ahead of myself. I made the wrong assumption that the phone lines from the CBC Calgary Eye-opener will be open for comments after I'll have the chance to speak with Mr. Jim Brown. This is not the case. CBC phoned me and let me know that if such decision is taken, it will posted on their website. My appologies to CBC, it was my mistake.

Cheers
muddywaters

[aulrich]

That seems to explains PCR and it's lack of a prey base.

[Christofficer]

Last time I was approached by F&W I asked the officer if they catch alot of poachers. He said a few once in a while, but most tickets are handed out for disobeying more minor laws like barbed hooks and bait usage. He told me they mostly handed out fines for poaching to commercial fishers, and very big fines at that. I think I remember him telling me they are charged per each fish they're not allowed to catch, and fines for commercial fishers end up being in the double digit thousands. So yes, CO's are always monitoring them, and sometimes I think that's why it's hard to get ahold of one when you need them. They're out montioring the 'big fish' and catching the people who do more damage.

[mclean]

Christofficer, You must have got wrong info. from F@W officer for fineing the Commercial netters for every fish they are not allowed to catch is not true.
Take Milk River Ridge Res. for example, The netters quota is,-20,000 lbs. of lake white fish, their tolerance is- 2,000 lb,s pike, 450lb,s-walleye. When the netters excede their toleraces of pike, or walleye, the fisherie is shut down for 3 years, they are allowed to sell the pike and walleye and keep the profits, walleye sells for about 3 times the dollars that a white fish does , geass which fish the netters would like to harvest,

[rvhomey]

I was out at Sherburne a couple of days ago (and got skunked), and there was a man fishing there that use to have a commercial fishing license. He told me his quota was set at 40,000 lbs a year. (That's a lot of fish!!!) He also said he use to fish both Sherburne and McGregor. These are small lakes to be taking that kind of volume from. I believe that only BIG lakes like Slave should be targeted for commercial fishing. I signed your petition. Thank you for bringing this up, as I was thinking about this very matter since talking to that fisherman. I really hope this gets to the right people and not left on someones desk to gather dust. Good luck on your venture!

[ULTRAlite]

Petition signed and link added to my blog. Big thanks for bringing this topic forward.

[cujo1969]

They been commercial fishin mcgregor since the thirties why havent they wiped out the whitefish population yet?
The commercial fishing acts as a control to the whitefish as the pike and walleye arent able to keep up to control the population as sport anglers keep so many of them even tho 0 limit on walleye.
What are the best whitefish lakes in southern alberta?
Seem you hear about mcgregor,traver and newell alot and they get comm fished.
I will not be signing petition.

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by cujo1969

They been commercial fishin mcgregor since the thirties why havent they wiped out the whitefish population yet?
The commercial fishing acts as a control to the whitefish as the pike and walleye arent able to keep up to control the population as sport anglers keep so many of them even tho 0 limit on walleye.
What are the best whitefish lakes in southern alberta?
Seem you hear about mcgregor,traver and newell alot and they get comm fished.
I will not be signing petition.

Great points,alot of people just cant seem to Figure out the Facts.However I could care less,because I know that commercial Fishing in Alberta will be here to say.

Sign your name a thousand times each,it aint going to change the commercial Fishing in Alberta.

Waste of time.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by muddywaters

Ladies and Gentlemen anglers,

I have started a petition to stop the commercial fishing of whitefish on Lake McGregor. I was shocked to see the numbers on commercial fishing in this province. The benefit of the few at the expence of the many would sum it up. If you are interested in supporting this petition, please sign it at:

www.ipetitions.com/petition/lake-mcgregor

I think that together we can change it and if it work here mayve we can take it to other lakes too. Your support is paramount.

Cheers,
mddywaters

b b u b t ttttt then where wil l buy my whitefish if its not at superstore

[deanmc]

I believe there is a value to a commercial harvest and will not be signing the petition.

I think I understand the pro's and cons of the commercial fishery fairly well.

From a fisheries management prospective the netters are required to target only (and they do target) whitefish.

Removing some whitefish is part of the govt strategy to bring the walleye fishery back in a lot of these zero limit lakes.

Walleye and pike tend to swim from shore towards the center of the lake while whitefish follow the shoreline. Whitefish netting is accomplished by stringing nets at right angles to the shoreline. Catching one large pike in a net will many times cause the netter to catch no whitefish since they tend to roll up in the net.

Someone mentioned under size fish. The size of the mesh determines the size of the fish caught in it. A 4 inch mesh will only catch fish that are too large to swim through it.

I doubt any walleye or pike would be healthy enough to release after spending even a few minutes in a gill net.

That said I do have a serious problem with commercial fishers leaving ling cod on the ice and I would support an attempt to change that.