Crippled Deer at feeder

[acedave3]

We have five white tail deer coming to our feeder behind the house,
(two does, 3 fawns) for the past week or so, of the five (three, hind and two fronts) are limping, and show swelling legs at the lower base of their feet. It is very stressful to the wife and myself and we are really hoping they will make it.
I should point that conditions have been icy, and we do have a pack of coyotes that roam the field behind the house, but I believe the deer are bedding down in the thick bush behind, or close to our home on 4 acres of land
My question is could this be caused by anything else and should I contact F&W ?

[Full Curl Earl]

I agree about the icy conditions being the cause. Although it may look terrible, as long as they are continuing to feed, and that's a good sign, then there really isn't anything more that can be done. I am also not sure if you want F and W out there if your feeding wildlife. I am not 100% certain it is legal.

[Pioneer2]

They'll know now.......Harold

[Lefty-Canuck]

What kind of feeder...a bird feeder? with bird seed? or are you "purposely" feeding the deer. They aren't foundering from eating "high test" food are they? I have heard thats one of the hazzards of feeding wildlife...they sometimes don't take well to cattle feed during the winter.

LC

[ishootbambi]

sounds to me like the opportunistic deer have found a domestic stock feeder and are taking advantage of the freebie. i dont see a guy doing anything wrong?.......

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

sounds to me like the opportunistic deer have found a domestic stock feeder and are taking advantage of the freebie. i dont see a guy doing anything wrong?.......

Nothing wrong with it...how do you prevent it?.... but I have heard (again not sure the truth in it) that deer sometimes do not take well to cattle feed and can founder.....maybe a WL Biologist or "someone in know" can chime in to whether it is true or not?

LC

[fast_pass88]

Maybe I am wrong, but it's only illegal to bait for the purpose of hunting. I think it's ok to bait for the purpose of photography, or for just simply feeding the deer to help them through the winter. As long as its not up during hunting season I doubt you could get charged

[gopher]

Hopefully you don’t live in a CWD zone walkingbuffalo is going to have a field day with you

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by fast_pass88

Maybe I am wrong, but it's only illegal to bait for the purpose of hunting. I think it's ok to bait for the purpose of photography, or for just simply feeding the deer to help them through the winter. As long as its not up during hunting season I doubt you could get charged

Correct.

[cmcclung]

Originally Posted by fast_pass88

Maybe I am wrong, but it's only illegal to bait for the purpose of hunting. I think it's ok to bait for the purpose of photography, or for just simply feeding the deer to help them through the winter. As long as its not up during hunting season I doubt you could get charged

The wording in the regs is "for the purpose of hunting big game." However I'm sure that this means you are not allowed to bait at any time of year if you intend to hunt in the fall. At least I can see an officer interpretting it this way. Have to be careful I would say.

[cmcclung]

I guess I'm just thinking that if my season opened nov. 1 and I baited up until then I could still be charged...and in my mind rightfully so.

[fast_pass88]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Nothing wrong with it...how do you prevent it?.... but I have heard (again not sure the truth in it) that deer sometimes do not take well to cattle feed and can founder.....maybe a WL Biologist or "someone in know" can chime in to whether it is true or not?

LC

By cattle feed do you mean hay or barley? They have acess to fields of it year round. Makes no difference if it's in a grain bin or bale feeder. Founder is a foot related condition and usually ocurres when animals are eating from the same location over a long period of time. Feed spilled onto the ground begins to rot and worsens/causes an animal to founder. A pile of oats vs a pile of clover doesn't make any difference, it's the animals constant revisiting and walking in the same rotten soil. Founder doesnt have anything to do with the digestive system. If your concerned about founder, move your feeder 50 yds away every few weeks.

I'm by no means a biologist, but I didn't forget everything I learned in 4H lol

[bruceba]

Originally Posted by fast_pass88

Founder doesnt have anything to do with the digestive system.

Founder has everything to do with diet.

[Quinn42]

Originally Posted by fast_pass88

By cattle feed do you mean hay or barley? They have acess to fields of it year round. Makes no difference if it's in a grain bin or bale feeder. Founder is a foot related condition and usually ocurres when animals are eating from the same location over a long period of time. Feed spilled onto the ground begins to rot and worsens/causes an animal to founder. A pile of oats vs a pile of clover doesn't make any difference, it's the animals constant revisiting and walking in the same rotten soil. Founder doesnt have anything to do with the digestive system. If your concerned about founder, move your feeder 50 yds away every few weeks.

I'm by no means a biologist, but I didn't forget everything I learned in 4H lol

Sorry but Founder has everything to do with feed and digestive system Look up Laminitis on the net. It is the swelling and seperation of the hoof wall from the rest of the foot and the sinking of the coffin bone (in horses) or pedal bone. Free choice grains, high carb intakes and excess undigested sugars etc. In some animals its almost like Diabetes and insulin related. I also does make a difference whether they are eating field swathes or pure grain. They won't injest as much pure grain kernals when eating from the swathes as a from a pile or feeder so thats less sugar content and more fibre. You are correct, the rotting grain (fermenting) is worse for adding to founder conditions but not for the reason you suggest. Also interesting with the clover as it is higher in sugar contents and can cause problems in free feed situations as well. Not trying to be a jerk, just misinformation on founder can lead to losing animals, I've been too close to that to let it go.

Back to the OP, most likely icy conditions. Its tough to watch but mother nature will take care of any slower animals rather quickly if they are that bad off.

Q

[pikeslayer22]

If foundering was the case Sask would not have any deer left...they are at feed piles 365 24-7!!!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by fast_pass88

By cattle feed do you mean hay or barley? They have acess to fields of it year round. Makes no difference if it's in a grain bin or bale feeder. Founder is a foot related condition and usually ocurres when animals are eating from the same location over a long period of time. Feed spilled onto the ground begins to rot and worsens/causes an animal to founder. A pile of oats vs a pile of clover doesn't make any difference, it's the animals constant revisiting and walking in the same rotten soil. Founder doesnt have anything to do with the digestive system. If your concerned about founder, move your feeder 50 yds away every few weeks.

I'm by no means a biologist, but I didn't forget everything I learned in 4H lol

For all the deer in a little group to be limpy gimpy I was just tossing this idea out there.....I have no idea if it is founder or not. I am not really the livestock type. I just recall having read or having had a conversation about deer eating "high test" foods in the winter and having issues with it....again it could be BS.....

LC

[acedave3]

Thanks for your responses.
They are feed BOC (barley, oats and corn). purchased from a feed mill. One year we fed thirteen deer on this combination and they were the most happy ,lively and fat deer that you could ever imagine. I live in subdivsion west of Edmonton and my intentions are solely with helping the deer over the winter and enjoy seeing them every day aroud a feeder that is strickly designed for their enjoyment.

[shabooe]

I believe the deer may have hoof rot. I've seen it before where deer are hanging around feed lots or stack yards. The bottom of the leg swells and the hoof will eventually rot away. I think the virus lives in the soil and becomes more active in warmer weather such as we have had recently.

[fast_pass88]

Originally Posted by Quinn42

Sorry but Founder has everything to do with feed and digestive system Look up Laminitis on the net. It is the swelling and seperation of the hoof wall from the rest of the foot and the sinking of the coffin bone (in horses) or pedal bone. Free choice grains, high carb intakes and excess undigested sugars etc. In some animals its almost like Diabetes and insulin related. I also does make a difference whether they are eating field swathes or pure grain. They won't injest as much pure grain kernals when eating from the swathes as a from a pile or feeder so thats less sugar content and more fibre. You are correct, the rotting grain (fermenting) is worse for adding to founder conditions but not for the reason you suggest. Also interesting with the clover as it is higher in sugar contents and can cause problems in free feed situations as well. Not trying to be a jerk, just misinformation on founder can lead to losing animals, I've been too close to that to let it go.

Back to the OP, most likely icy conditions. Its tough to watch but mother nature will take care of any slower animals rather quickly if they are that bad off.

Q

well, i learned something new thanks for the info

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Quinn42

Not trying to be a jerk, just misinformation on founder can lead to losing animals, I've been too close to that to let it go.

Back to the OP, most likely icy conditions. Its tough to watch but mother nature will take care of any slower animals rather quickly if they are that bad off.

Q

The dogs found a newborn fawn in one of my paddocks a couple years back. It had some bite marks on it, likely coyotes. We left it for awhile, hoping mom would come back but she didn't.

Took it up to the house and had a helluva time trying to get it to eat something. On Day 2, I drove about 50 miles to get some sheep milk powder and a sheep bottle to see if it would take that. It had a few sips, but that was all.

We found someone who would take it to a gang of whitetails in the hope that one of the does might adopt it.

Ma Nature is a tough old bitch sometimes.

[creeky]

Originally Posted by Quinn42

Sorry but Founder has everything to do with feed and digestive system Look up Laminitis on the net. It is the swelling and seperation of the hoof wall from the rest of the foot and the sinking of the coffin bone (in horses) or pedal bone. Free choice grains, high carb intakes and excess undigested sugars etc. In some animals its almost like Diabetes and insulin related. I also does make a difference whether they are eating field swathes or pure grain. They won't injest as much pure grain kernals when eating from the swathes as a from a pile or feeder so thats less sugar content and more fibre. You are correct, the rotting grain (fermenting) is worse for adding to founder conditions but not for the reason you suggest. Also interesting with the clover as it is higher in sugar contents and can cause problems in free feed situations as well. Not trying to be a jerk, just misinformation on founder can lead to losing animals, I've been too close to that to let it go.

Back to the OP, most likely icy conditions. Its tough to watch but mother nature will take care of any slower animals rather quickly if they are that bad off.

Q

there are various other triggers for founder beyond digestive. Such as Concussive Founder from pounding work on rocky or hardtop roads. Mechanical Founder resulting in a tearing of the laminae (& horse galloping around) owing to the hooves being overly long from neglectful foot care. Exhaustive Founder particularly from overworking an unfit animal.

Other systemic type founders include: retained placenta in a mare. Untreated infections, such as abscesses, uterine infections, pneumonia. Heat stroke, drinking cold water after extreme work when overheated causing sudden changes in body temperature, drastic laxative over dose….etc

It's late, i'm sure i've missed a few.

[Quinn42]

Originally Posted by creeky

there are various other triggers for founder beyond digestive. Such as Concussive Founder from pounding work on rocky or hardtop roads. Mechanical Founder resulting in a tearing of the laminae (& horse galloping around) owing to the hooves being overly long from neglectful foot care. Exhaustive Founder particularly from overworking an unfit animal.

Other systemic type founders include: retained placenta in a mare. Untreated infections, such as abscesses, uterine infections, pneumonia. Heat stroke, drinking cold water after extreme work when overheated causing sudden changes in body temperature, drastic laxative over dose….etc

It's late, i'm sure i've missed a few.

I see you did look it up! Yes, all these things can contribute to laminitis but since hes feeding the deer and not riding them it really didn't seem to be that relevent. haha.

It made me laught the Bruceba beat me to the punch and said the same thing. I guess we were too emphatic in our response and should have said Founder is almost always diet related. Anyway, I think we've derailed the thread enough with founder.

I hope acedave will keep us updated to see how they fair.

[creeky]

Originally Posted by Quinn42

I see you did look it up! Yes, all these things can contribute to laminitis but since hes feeding the deer and not riding them it really didn't seem to be that relevent. haha.

It made me laught the Bruceba beat me to the punch and said the same thing. I guess we were too emphatic in our response and should have said Founder is almost always diet related. Anyway, I think we've derailed the thread enough with founder.

I hope acedave will keep us updated to see how they fair.

I see you did look it up!

Something along those lines.

I hope acedave will keep us updated to see how they fair

X2, sorry for the derail

[Mhunter51]

Pikeslayer -- you are wrong. Yes in Saskatchewan a lot of people bait IN THE HUNTING SEASON. It is illegal to bait after the season closes and you must clean up your bait site of all remaining bait. They don't come to the bait piles 365 -- 24/7 !!!!

[Jimboy]

phone peta , they,ll come help out

[Red Bullets]

Because you mention conditions being icy in your area...
It could be that the ice is crusty and the deer are breaking through and the ice is cutting or working on the ankles or shins. Ice can be sharp. Also slippery ice might tend for their hooves to splay out more, making the feet sore.