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  #1  
Old 04-19-2012, 09:35 PM
Cody Cody is offline
 
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Default Rolling Block vs. Falling Block

Guy at the store the other day told me the Rolling block action was stronger than the falling block action. This seemed counter-intuitive to me.
Anybody out there have a clear idea on this?
I'm looking to hand load for 45-70.

Cheers,

Cody
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  #2  
Old 04-19-2012, 10:50 PM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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As I understand it, the Rolling Block breechblock will loosen up and gain headspace on high pressure loads over time due to not having enough support for the breechblock. They were chambered for 7x57 at one time, and apparently had some troubles with that over time.
The falling blocks like the 1885 and 44-1/2 do not suffer that issue, they will handle it.
I expect that is why the Ubertis are not chambered for high pressure cartridges even though they are modern steels. You may get a better technical answer to your question on the ASSRA forum. Should perhaps look at a book called the Single Shot Breech Loading Rifle, by Ned Roberts and Ken Waters, and Singleshot Rifles and Actions by Frank de Haas.
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:24 AM
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Gun store guy is plain wrong. Ruger and 1885 falling blocks are FAR stronger than any rolling block, even modern made ones, let alone an old Remington no 3 or the like.
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
Gun store guy is plain wrong. Ruger and 1885 falling blocks are FAR stronger than any rolling block, even modern made ones, let alone an old Remington no 3 or the like.
X2!
All one has to do is take a look at the way the roller locks up and you will realize that it is a very weak action compared to a falling block.
Ever see a roller chambered fro the factory in stuff like 300 mag ?

I would never shoot one if I saw a re-chambered one in that cartridge, that is for sure!!

Cat
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  #5  
Old 04-20-2012, 07:39 AM
Cody Cody is offline
 
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Default Books

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Originally Posted by 32-40win View Post
As I understand it, the Rolling Block breechblock will loosen up and gain headspace on high pressure loads over time due to not having enough support for the breechblock. They were chambered for 7x57 at one time, and apparently had some troubles with that over time.
The falling blocks like the 1885 and 44-1/2 do not suffer that issue, they will handle it.
I expect that is why the Ubertis are not chambered for high pressure cartridges even though they are modern steels. You may get a better technical answer to your question on the ASSRA forum. Should perhaps look at a book called the Single Shot Breech Loading Rifle, by Ned Roberts and Ken Waters, and Singleshot Rifles and Actions by Frank de Haas.
The Frank de Haas book was referred to elsewhere so looked it up on Alibris and Amazon; $150 for the cheapest one I could find. Dang.

Maybe I can find a copy of that Roberts and Waters book.

I suppose I should also consider the Sharps action. Any opinions on its strength (In a modern version) compared to a Ruger or B78 / 1885.

Cheers,

Cody
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Cody View Post
The Frank de Haas book was referred to elsewhere so looked it up on Alibris and Amazon; $150 for the cheapest one I could find. Dang.

Maybe I can find a copy of that Roberts and Waters book.

I suppose I should also consider the Sharps action. Any opinions on its strength (In a modern version) compared to a Ruger or B78 / 1885.

Cheers,

Cody
For P cart5ridges the Sharps is da chit, because it tears down so easily - one pine basically and the block is out.
I like the Brownings and the Rugers as well, got "one or two" of each, I couldn't pick you a clear winner however, the Ruger has the faster lock time I suspect, but I really like open hammers.
Both are VERY accurate actions.
Cat
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  #7  
Old 04-20-2012, 07:50 AM
u_cant_rope_the_wind u_cant_rope_the_wind is offline
 
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the ruger has the strongest falling block,then the 1885 Winchester, and no the B78 is not exactly the same as an 1885, there are slight differences, then the Sharpe's,yes the Sharpe's handle, big bore like the 50-90 and 50-110, but the ruger handle modern day smokeless powders like the 416 rigby, and 404 jeffery, and such calibers, so if yer looking for a falling block for strength, go ruger,if yer looking for a Bpcr go either Winchester or Sharpe's style
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:52 AM
Cody Cody is offline
 
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Default Pedersoli Pressure data

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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
For P cart5ridges the Sharps is da chit, because it tears down so easily - one pine basically and the block is out.
I like the Brownings and the Rugers as well, got "one or two" of each, I couldn't pick you a clear winner however, the Ruger has the faster lock time I suspect, but I really like open hammers.
Both are VERY accurate actions.
Cat
Thanks Cat. I also just ran across the following link with info from Pedersoli about maximum pressures:
http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-result...mits_09-04.htm

Cheers,

Cody
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody View Post
Thanks Cat. I also just ran across the following link with info from Pedersoli about maximum pressures:
http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-result...mits_09-04.htm

Cheers,
Cody
Pedersoli is absolutely right on. Their modern Sharps are stronger than the old ones, and the sharps was stronger than a rolling block. But the pressure limit of 29,000 CUP is still rpetty anemic. A 223 runs 55,000 psi, and hot 45-70 loads that are safe to shoot in a modern Marlin lever run up to the 40,000 CUP range. 29,000 CUP is the load range for the old trap door rifles so be very careful not to use the wrong data if you are loading for a Sharps, even a new well built one. (Also, be very careful using Pedersoli's info. CUP and PSI are NOT the same thing. 29,000 CUP is only 27,300 PSI)Attachment 50726

If you need strength, buy the Ruger #1 or at least the 1885.

Last edited by Dean2; 06-06-2012 at 01:45 PM.
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  #10  
Old 04-20-2012, 10:55 AM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Interesting, I was looking for that Pedersoli document last nite, couldn't find it.
I was thinking something around 30,000 was the limit area.
And yet the Remington actions that were chambered for the 7x57 ran in the 45,000 range. The descriptions I remember of them, was they would develop the excess headspace and if it wasn't caught it would blow up. Most people were limiting the 45-70 loads to Trapdoor loads in them as I remember.
If I remember rightly, Wholesale had or has both of those books. The Roberts/Waters book I believe is still avail from Wolfe Publishing.
The B78 action is apparently a pain to take apart to clean, the 1885 Miroku action is no big deal to clean. It and the #1 action are chambered for cartridges that run 60,000 psi+, so there are no strength issues with either one.
CPA will chamber the 44-1/2 for 225 win, so it is strong enough for most needs, he will build up to 45-110 on his actions also.
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  #11  
Old 08-27-2012, 01:50 PM
handofzeus handofzeus is offline
 
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I've had rolling blocks come part way open from over pressure and hammer-bounce. I'd trust a falling block before a rolling block any day!
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2012, 04:33 PM
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Try one of these in a roller and see what happens!!

The Brownings and Rugers handle them with extreme accuracy out to 1,000.
The experience with the roller would be... umm, extreme as well!

Cat
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2012, 05:56 PM
Big Daddy Badger Big Daddy Badger is offline
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Cat

Is that one on the left 6mmPPC?
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  #14  
Old 08-27-2012, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pesky672 View Post
Cat

Is that one on the left 6mmPPC?
Nope, 6mmBR
Cat
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  #15  
Old 08-27-2012, 11:17 PM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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This link concerns a blown up cast action Ballard at the Quigley match, but, it touches on the rolling blocks and other old actions. There is a lot of info in it concerning old actions;

http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/Ya...m=1340046856/0

It's not too difficult to find info on Rolling Block strength issues. There is another thread there about a .308 win conversion that was on Gunbroker, basicaly a grenade waiting to happen.
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  #16  
Old 08-28-2012, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32-40win View Post
This link concerns a blown up cast action Ballard at the Quigley match, but, it touches on the rolling blocks and other old actions. There is a lot of info in it concerning old actions;

http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/Ya...m=1340046856/0

It's not too difficult to find info on Rolling Block strength issues. There is another thread there about a .308 win conversion that was on Gunbroker, basicaly a grenade waiting to happen.
The Ballard is not really that strong an action, not the one I owned, anyway.
I think it was a Pacific#2.
Cat
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  #17  
Old 08-28-2012, 10:21 AM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Some of those old Ballards are drop-dead gorgeous guns, rolling blocks and Hepburns also. Guy has to be careful on what he buys in that sort of stuff.
Just because it can be found in a certain cartridge chambering does not mean it is safe to shoot it for sure.
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