Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Fishing Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-03-2012, 08:37 PM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,137
Default $1,000/Fish

Rocky Mountain House newspaper the Mountaineer of October 30, 2012 reported that Ron
Allan of Edmonton was fined $6,000 for illegally catching six bull trout and keeping them while fishing with bait, 3 rods and barbed hooks on the North Saskatchewan River. The poaching incident happened August 5 and the bust was the result of a call to Report a Poacher. The Crown dropped eight more charges. He also lost his gear and got a license suspension for a year.

Thought that some of you might be interested.

catch ya'


Don
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:00 PM
WayneChristie's Avatar
WayneChristie WayneChristie is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,977
Default

good to hear, too bad the rest got dropped
__________________
Rolling Hillbilly
2017 lake sturgeon tagging count
Caught 55
Tagged 56
Repeat captures 12
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:07 PM
Flyfisher87 Flyfisher87 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 1,248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneChristie View Post
good to hear, too bad the rest got dropped
x2. Thanks for posting this Don!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:12 PM
Gust Gust is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,416
Default

Figured this would be a good spot for an idea I have,,, let's say we create a pay as you go fishing license as do you really think this poacher will stop poaching?

Here's my idea,,, everybody buys a flat rate fishing license the regular way, and everytime you head out you stop by a roadway or gas station setup with a win number receiver.

When f&w ask for your license to fish, a swipe of your win tells f&w that yiu can fish that day or a number of days you picked. If you have infractions, the daily sign on method would have disallowed you to fish.

If you fished 10 times over the year, then the next year your flat rate of $26.00 wiuld be the same but if you fished 100 times -or over the flat rate max- you would have to pay .50 per outing the next time you get a license. This would generate more towards f&w and curb poaching a bit.
Wait! There's more,,,, seniors and kids would have to get licences too for $5.00,, yup,, geezers and kids,, or a family license,,, this way kids dont get to be the poachers excuse for barbs and bait and lack of knowledge.

I've become bitter as of late,,, long story best saved for another day.

Your thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:20 PM
Pincherguy's Avatar
Pincherguy Pincherguy is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Turner Valley
Posts: 2,930
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen View Post
Rocky Mountain House newspaper the Mountaineer of October 30, 2012 reported that Ron
Allan of Edmonton was fined $6,000 for illegally catching six bull trout and keeping them while fishing with bait, 3 rods and barbed hooks on the North Saskatchewan River. The poaching incident happened August 5 and the bust was the result of a call to Report a Poacher. The Crown dropped eight more charges. He also lost his gear and got a license suspension for a year.

Thought that some of you might be interested.

catch ya'


Don
Discusting, why let him off on 8 charges? Nail him to the fence post with a sign saying Poachers beware.
PG
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:21 PM
Commander B Commander B is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Smithers
Posts: 210
Default NO!!!

Brilliant.... Now i have to drive 20 min out of my way and pay more to go fishing...... Stop with the good ideas!!! I cant afford it! Fine, confiscate gear, shoot the poachers, no problem, why is the first reaction of our society to punish the law abiding citizens?????????

B.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:25 PM
New Hunter Okotoks New Hunter Okotoks is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Okotoks
Posts: 2,848
Default

I think this sentence is fair and sends a message to other would be Poachers.

6 Grand is a good chunk of change. I doubt he will be keeping any Bulls when he gets his fishing priviledges back. Any other Bull Keepers reading this story will be thinking twice about doing it again.

The other charges were likely dropped in order to get the conviction that they did get.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:27 PM
Bigdad013 Bigdad013 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,478
Default

I think that should also include:

If you don't catch any fish that day, you drive the extra 20 mins again, swipe your card and get a rebate.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:33 PM
Dwils Dwils is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Grande Prairie
Posts: 130
Default I agree!

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Hunter Okotoks View Post
I think this sentence is fair and sends a message to other would be Poachers.

6 Grand is a good chunk of change. I doubt he will be keeping any Bulls when he gets his fishing priviledges back. Any other Bull Keepers reading this story will be thinking twice about doing it again.

The other charges were likely dropped in order to get the conviction that they did get.
X 2
I think that if 6k wont make him change his ways really there is just one other option...... Hopefully he and others who have done this will see or hear about this and think twice next time.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:34 PM
Gust Gust is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,416
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdad013 View Post
I think that should also include:

If you don't catch any fish that day, you drive the extra 20 mins again, swipe your card and get a rebate.
That is good and as ludicrous as my idea.

I will explain later on my reasons for making pay as you go fishing, actually it has more to do with family fishing.

It would be awesome to see poachers making the front page or the nightly news.

Shame is a greater deterrant than money imo,, but $1000 per bull trout is great too!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:49 PM
tight line's Avatar
tight line tight line is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,468
Default

What a POS...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-03-2012, 10:16 PM
.300ultramag .300ultramag is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sparwood BC
Posts: 216
Default

Serves them right!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-03-2012, 11:34 PM
BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fort Saskatchewan Ab
Posts: 8,929
Default

Maybe advise his employer of his crime / crimes as well . I would love to see the addition to the hard copy of the regulations of some of the people charged and post them in the regulations . That would be good to see even if the courts gave them the option of a lesser charge and story printed in the regulations or you going to have the book thrown at you minimum 10,000 fine and 3-5 year ban first time ,and raise it from the strike 3 life time ban and jail time .
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-03-2012, 11:49 PM
EZM's Avatar
EZM EZM is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,339
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gust View Post
That is good and as ludicrous as my idea.

I will explain later on my reasons for making pay as you go fishing, actually it has more to do with family fishing.

It would be awesome to see poachers making the front page or the nightly news.

Shame is a greater deterrant than money imo,, but $1000 per bull trout is great too!
sooooooooooo ...... you really think a poacher is going to swipe his card and, when rejected, turn around and go home? do you think most fisherman are going to like to go find a place to swipe their WIN card? Sounds like a fantastic idea to me.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-04-2012, 12:09 AM
Gust Gust is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,416
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
sooooooooooo ...... you really think a poacher is going to swipe his card and, when rejected, turn around and go home? do you think most fisherman are going to like to go find a place to swipe their WIN card? Sounds like a fantastic idea to me.
Lotsa 7/11's around or Timmy's,,, my point is more about making poaching as unappealing as possible,, bbj's idea of listing poachers in the regs is great, though I am not sure if poachers have licenses to begin with.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-04-2012, 12:52 AM
BeeGuy BeeGuy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: down by the river
Posts: 11,431
Default

I like the idea of publishing the names and fine $$.

Public shaming would be a great punishment.

Can't say I agree with jail time for poaching fish.

1. punishment has to fit the crime (ie the debts must be equal)
2. it is insanely expensive to lock people up.


It would be great to see chain-gangs of hardcore poachers doing habitat remediation.

The crime is against the ecosystems and the commons, not so much against the government.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:37 AM
Kim473's Avatar
Kim473 Kim473 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES View Post
Maybe advise his employer of his crime / crimes as well . I would love to see the addition to the hard copy of the regulations of some of the people charged and post them in the regulations . That would be good to see even if the courts gave them the option of a lesser charge and story printed in the regulations or you going to have the book thrown at you minimum 10,000 fine and 3-5 year ban first time ,and raise it from the strike 3 life time ban and jail time .
Great idea BBJ.

Poachers arn't gonna read them tho. And regs would be 4" thick with all the names from the folks that get caught at calling lake in one season. Never mind the rest of the province.

Think they should hit the headline news, Sports, news, on all TV & radio stations. Just think how Brian Hall would run with it.
__________________
Kim

Gonna get me a 16" perch.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:50 AM
Ultimate Predator Ultimate Predator is online now
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 840
Default

GUST im sure glad your not in charge of licencing more machines more staff more money dont think your 50 cents is going to counter ballance that poachers r poachers nail them how about we get a lot mor FW out there and let them do there job and how about us sports man man up and start turning every one in that breaks the rules instead of turning a blind eye
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-04-2012, 05:41 AM
omega50's Avatar
omega50 omega50 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Calgary SW
Posts: 6,212
Default

We could have a public "Poacher Shaming Day"
Big picnic-
Get paintball guns and teach new hunters gun control on"Shoot a Poacher Day"
Dress up the poachers as whatever wildllife they poached and let the public shoot at them with paintballs!!lol

Ok to take head shots on anyone who disrespects the resource.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-04-2012, 06:59 AM
Fishabs Fishabs is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Airdrie, Alberta
Posts: 56
Default

Thanks for sharing the article with us. Mr. Allan woke up with a much lighter wallet this morning. If you're disgusted with the Crown dropping 8 charges, stay away from the courthouse; there is much worst happening in there!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-04-2012, 08:47 AM
Don Andersen Don Andersen is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,137
Default

Folks,

A number of years ago I wrote the SRD Minister and asked if the poachers names/location/activity/where happened/$'s fined etc could be published to a web site that is updated regularly.

A kinda "Whose Stealing your Wildlife" site.

I'd thought that there might be a number of positives arise from such a site and these might include:

1] taxpayer seeing returns for enforcement $

2] Shame factor - if any

3] Per group Pressure - if any

4] Areas where enforcement is done

5] Type of tickets - warning and or court


And on and on.

Minister wrote back and told me that they just couldn't do such a thing. Why would anybody be "shamed" for wildlife/fishery tickets.

Curiously other jurisdictions in do this type of thing all the time. Works there.

I suspect that the web site may poke up what most of us think. There is about "0" enforcement out there. Would be a sorrowful experience to have month after month w/o any updates as no new court cases exist.

And the enforcement is going to get worse. Used to be a group called StreamWatch who patrolled the eastern Slopes west of Rocky and in the SW portion of Alberta. The StreamWater group did nearly all the enforcement that happened in the summer. But the group finally folded due to Govt issues. Streamwatch was originally privately funded with officers coming from the enforcement program @ Lethbridge College. Streamwatch was formed because the founders realized that the Govt wasn't doing it's job. After watching AF&G 40 years of resultions telling Govt that they had to do something about enforcement, there had to be another way to get people on the ground.

Streamwatch was a great program finally killed by the bureaucrats.

catch ya'


Don
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-04-2012, 11:55 AM
Fishabs Fishabs is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Airdrie, Alberta
Posts: 56
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen View Post

Minister wrote back and told me that they just couldn't do such a thing. Why would anybody be "shamed" for wildlife/fishery tickets.



Don
Why not ? Good on you for writing the letter; too bad the answer is no more than speculation.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-04-2012, 02:54 PM
ericlin0122 ericlin0122 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 492
Default

fishing with 3 rods, he's got talent.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-04-2012, 03:32 PM
Penner's Avatar
Penner Penner is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,023
Thumbs up

Nice to see.

Good on the guy/gal whom called it in.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-04-2012, 07:33 PM
ReconWilly's Avatar
ReconWilly ReconWilly is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 858
Default

Great to hear, i love the public shaming...Eat a fat one Ron Allen.

Maybe we could stick these losers with a dirty AIDS infected syringe and refuse them health care while nature took its course...extreme? Definatly, however 1 of these losers alone can devastate a fragile unprotected ecosystem in a relatively short period of time...whose to say that these losers spend less time poaching than Wayne Christie or BGSH spend fishing?

This P.O.S. was caught this time, i'm left wondering how many other defenceless creatures have wrongfully suffered as a result of his misguided sense of entitlement?

Disgusting.
__________________
Respect the resources or kindly choose not to use them.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-04-2012, 07:51 PM
ESOXangler's Avatar
ESOXangler ESOXangler is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,010
Default

You think they'd taste better cause they're so expensive?

Just saying hahahah
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-04-2012, 10:09 PM
Icefisher2885 Icefisher2885 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 458
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gust View Post
Figured this would be a good spot for an idea I have,,, let's say we create a pay as you go fishing license as do you really think this poacher will stop poaching?

Here's my idea,,, everybody buys a flat rate fishing license the regular way, and everytime you head out you stop by a roadway or gas station setup with a win number receiver.

When f&w ask for your license to fish, a swipe of your win tells f&w that yiu can fish that day or a number of days you picked. If you have infractions, the daily sign on method would have disallowed you to fish.

If you fished 10 times over the year, then the next year your flat rate of $26.00 wiuld be the same but if you fished 100 times -or over the flat rate max- you would have to pay .50 per outing the next time you get a license. This would generate more towards f&w and curb poaching a bit.
Wait! There's more,,,, seniors and kids would have to get licences too for $5.00,, yup,, geezers and kids,, or a family license,,, this way kids dont get to be the poachers excuse for barbs and bait and lack of knowledge.

I've become bitter as of late,,, long story best saved for another day.

Your thoughts?
This won't curb poaching - its only going to be a PITA for law biding citizens. Poachers poach because they don't care about the law; adding another law will do nothing to stop them.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-04-2012, 11:08 PM
ice ice is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,502
Default

When did a guy poaching fish turn into the law abiding citizens paying even more money, are you sure you people don't work for the government?
How is me paying an extra 50 cents Gona stop a poacher?
__________________
IT'S TIMES LIKE THESE...
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-05-2012, 12:13 AM
hockey1099 hockey1099 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 655
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gust View Post
Figured this would be a good spot for an idea I have,,, let's say we create a pay as you go fishing license as do you really think this poacher will stop poaching?

Here's my idea,,, everybody buys a flat rate fishing license the regular way, and everytime you head out you stop by a roadway or gas station setup with a win number receiver.

When f&w ask for your license to fish, a swipe of your win tells f&w that yiu can fish that day or a number of days you picked. If you have infractions, the daily sign on method would have disallowed you to fish.

If you fished 10 times over the year, then the next year your flat rate of $26.00 wiuld be the same but if you fished 100 times -or over the flat rate max- you would have to pay .50 per outing the next time you get a license. This would generate more towards f&w and curb poaching a bit.
Wait! There's more,,,, seniors and kids would have to get licences too for $5.00,, yup,, geezers and kids,, or a family license,,, this way kids dont get to be the poachers excuse for barbs and bait and lack of knowledge.

I've become bitter as of late,,, long story best saved for another day.

Your thoughts?
This litterally makes no sense and it would cost millions to install swipe card machines across the province. Let alone the costs to enforce it. And what if i go fishing at 5am and the gas station isnt open till 10 on sunday?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-05-2012, 08:26 AM
Flyrod1970 Flyrod1970 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 71
Default

Quote:
I suspect that the web site may poke up what most of us think. There is about "0" enforcement out there. Would be a sorrowful experience to have month after month w/o any updates as no new court cases exist.

It's not quite 0 enforcement, in my 10 years of fishing alberta I have been stopped twice by a CO. Once on the crowsnest (last year) and once on gull lake (several years ago). I havn't done the math on what the ratio of days fished to those 2 instances that I was checked but I would say it's probably about .001% enforcement!

It is good to know that someone is being punished though!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.