Your Optometrist in Edmonton

Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 05-27-2013, 09:45 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCanuck View Post
Poverty does not cause violence. Certain sub-cultures celebrate it. A lot of the gangsters in the lower mainland were middle class kids.

Gun laws are to violence what prohibition is to pot smoking. What people desire, people acquire. One way or another.
You sure poverty stricken areas don't experience higher crime rates?
__________________
Mark Twain said it best... "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-27-2013, 09:47 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer View Post
How can lax gun laws in low crime areas be blamed for gun crime in Chicago? That defies logic. Blaming the gun for dirt bags actions is the same as blaming skateboarders for your perch problem. Doesn't really work.

I have to agree fixing poverty will help everyone. Good luck with that though.
This was rehashed over and over again on other threads. There are lots of stats that shows the guns used in the crimes are illegally brought in from out of state where background checks are not required.

Gun's don't kill people without a person holding onto it and unfortunately good people sell guns to bad guys. I am all for good guys having guns and bad guys not. So they need to stop the problem at the source rather than going in circle arguments.
__________________
Mark Twain said it best... "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-27-2013, 10:01 PM
DaleJ's Avatar
DaleJ DaleJ is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Peace River
Posts: 1,352
Default

How about the murder rate in Edmonton GMA, 50 homicides in 2011? Poverty?
__________________
Younger horses, faster women, older money, more whiskey!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-27-2013, 10:08 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleJ View Post
How about the murder rate in Edmonton GMA, 50 homicides in 2011? Poverty?
If you want to talk statistic you can not just throw out one Canadian city. Look up per capita income in Canada and then crime levels for those areas and see. It would make for an interesting read.

If you want mico statistics just look up crime rates in Bowness versus Elbow Park.

Plus we are talking US cities with US gun laws. Gun crime in Canada is gigantically lower than the US. Lots of stats on other threads to review.
__________________
Mark Twain said it best... "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-27-2013, 10:22 PM
Redfrog's Avatar
Redfrog Redfrog is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between Bodo and a hard place
Posts: 13,155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ali#1 View Post
Chicago has A population of 9,461,105.

That's bigger than 40 states.

That's more than New Jersey, That's 13 times the population of Alaska.


"17 Shot- 6 Dead in Chicago - Memorial Day Weekend."


Comforting facts for the ones who got shot. I know I'd feel better. On top of being shot I'd be loser in the stats game.
__________________
Running against the wind.

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-27-2013, 10:23 PM
hillbillyreefer's Avatar
hillbillyreefer hillbillyreefer is online now
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,462
Default

According to this article about 80% of the murders are drug gang related.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/escalon...o-streets.html

Is it really so bad that these people are killing each other off? Obviously the justice industry won't deal with them.

So for a recap, drugs/drug trafficking(illegal), gun possession (illegal), murder (illegal), gun trafficking(illegal) shooting on city streets(illegal), yet lax gun laws in other parts of the US are the problem with Chicago. That takes a leap of logic that I can't make.
__________________
I come here to visit with my anti freedom, anti individual friends!
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-27-2013, 10:41 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer View Post
According to this article about 80% of the murders are drug gang related.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/escalon...o-streets.html

Is it really so bad that these people are killing each other off? Obviously the justice industry won't deal with them.

So for a recap, drugs/drug trafficking(illegal), gun possession (illegal), murder (illegal), gun trafficking(illegal) shooting on city streets(illegal), yet lax gun laws in other parts of the US are the problem with Chicago. That takes a leap of logic that I can't make.
Look to where the guns come from that do the killing. There are plenty of studies then you just have a bit more info to go on.

You do hit on one valid point. If you added up all the murders the percentage of law abiding folks being killed by bad Guys versus bad guys killing each other is rarely discussed. I would love that info compared by country.
__________________
Mark Twain said it best... "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-27-2013, 10:45 PM
hillbillyreefer's Avatar
hillbillyreefer hillbillyreefer is online now
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,462
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
I would love that info compared by country.
That would be interesting. I'll see if I can find anything.

Edit

Interesting chart from StatsCan. Quite a bit was lost in translation, here is the link.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-.../tbl04-eng.htm


Table 4
Firearm-related and gang-related homicides, Canada's ten largest census metropolitan areas, 2010


Census metropolitan
area (CMA)1 Firearm-related homicides Gang-related homicides Total homicides
number rate2 percent of total homicides number rate2 percent of total homicides number
Toronto 40 0.70 50.0 20 0.35 25.0 80
Montréal 16 0.41 32.7 14 0.36 28.6 49
Vancouver 16 0.67 44.4 12 0.50 33.3 36
Edmonton 8 0.68 25.0 4 0.34 12.5 32
Winnipeg 7 0.90 31.8 4 0.51 18.2 22
Calgary 3 0.24 20.0 1 0.08 6.7 15
Ottawa3 2 0.21 15.4 0 0.00 0.0 13
Hamilton 1 0.14 8.3 0 0.00 0.0 12
Québec 1 0.13 16.7 0 0.00 0.0 6
Kitchener–Cambridge–Waterloo 0 0.00 0.0 1 0.19 25.0 4
1. A census metropolitan area (CMA) consists of one or more neighbouring municipalities situated around an urban core. A CMA must have a total population of at least 100,000 of which 50,000 or more live in the urban core. To be included in the CMA, other adjacent municipalities must have a high degree of integration with the urban core, as measured by commuting flows derived from census data. A CMA typically comprises more than one police service.
2. Rates are calculated per 100,000 population. Population estimates at July 1st 2010 provided by Statistics Canada, Demography Division. Estimates are preliminary postcensal for 2010.
3. Ottawa refers to the Ontario part of the Ottawa–Gatineau CMA.
Source: Statistics Canada, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Homicide Survey.
__________________
I come here to visit with my anti freedom, anti individual friends!

Last edited by hillbillyreefer; 05-27-2013 at 10:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-27-2013, 10:46 PM
HunterDave's Avatar
HunterDave HunterDave is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 13,049
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimPS View Post
17 Shot- 6 Dead in Chicago - Memorial Day Weekend.
Only 6 dead out of 17 people shot? That's only about a 30% success rate.....Pathetic.
__________________
“The whole problem with any issue is that fools and fanatics are always certain of their position, while wise people are full of doubt and questions.” Bertrand Russell
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-27-2013, 10:48 PM
IR_mike IR_mike is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Iron River
Posts: 4,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterDave View Post
Only 6 dead out of 17 people shot? That's only about a 30% success rate.....Pathetic.
I concur.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 05-27-2013, 11:13 PM
hillbillyreefer's Avatar
hillbillyreefer hillbillyreefer is online now
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,462
Default

The UK doesn't keep stats on gang violence. I wonder why? This reference from the BBC is about all I could find. Not overly helpful, but interesting. How is it possible that 60%of shootings are gang related. I thought guns were all but banned in England. It should be easy to keep them out, it is an island after all. (SARCASIM)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15238377

"At least half of the 27 murders of teenagers in London in 2007 were gang-related, according to the Metropolitan Police. Officers in Liverpool and Manchester have said in the past that 60% of shootings are linked to gangs."
__________________
I come here to visit with my anti freedom, anti individual friends!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 05-27-2013, 11:23 PM
HunterDave's Avatar
HunterDave HunterDave is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 13,049
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer View Post
"At least half of the 27 murders of teenagers in London in 2007 were gang-related, according to the Metropolitan Police. Officers in Liverpool and Manchester have said in the past that 60% of shootings are linked to gangs."
Can't open the link.....27 teen murders in a big city like London doesn't sound like a lot. How many of the 27 were shot?
__________________
“The whole problem with any issue is that fools and fanatics are always certain of their position, while wise people are full of doubt and questions.” Bertrand Russell
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 05-27-2013, 11:30 PM
Unregistered user's Avatar
Unregistered user Unregistered user is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgree.
Posts: 2,589
Default

Stats, shmats! Better to have a gun and not need it....
__________________
Here there be morons.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05-27-2013, 11:40 PM
hillbillyreefer's Avatar
hillbillyreefer hillbillyreefer is online now
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,462
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterDave View Post
Can't open the link.....27 teen murders in a big city like London doesn't sound like a lot. How many of the 27 were shot?
It doesn't say. Ill see what I can find when I drop the gang related part of the search.

Edit

I'm not finding anything.
__________________
I come here to visit with my anti freedom, anti individual friends!

Last edited by hillbillyreefer; 05-27-2013 at 11:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-28-2013, 05:11 AM
TomCanuck TomCanuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
You sure poverty stricken areas don't experience higher crime rates?
Not every impoverished area has a problem with violence. Those with gang and substance abuse issues do. Remember, correlation does not equal causation. It's about culture, and strength of family. All the rules of state can't compensate for a messed up culture.
__________________
Pacifists exist at the pleasure of the more aggressive, or by the sacrifices made by the less passive.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 05-28-2013, 07:47 AM
ali#1 ali#1 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,388
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterDave View Post
Can't open the link.....27 teen murders in a big city like London doesn't sound like a lot. How many of the 27 were shot?
Does London have gun control ?
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05-28-2013, 07:51 AM
ali#1 ali#1 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,388
Default

Did 30 seconds of research on the google, London had 27 Murders in 2012 total. Population is over 15 million.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-28-2013, 01:24 PM
hillbillyreefer's Avatar
hillbillyreefer hillbillyreefer is online now
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,462
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ali#1 View Post
Did 30 seconds of research on the google, London had 27 Murders in 2012 total. Population is over 15 million.
Like I said there were 27 YOUTH murders in London, not TOTAL murders. There were 120 murders in London in 2011.

http://www.citizensreportuk.org/repo...n-murders.html
__________________
I come here to visit with my anti freedom, anti individual friends!
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 05-28-2013, 02:43 PM
ali#1 ali#1 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,388
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer View Post
Like I said there were 27 YOUTH murders in London, not TOTAL murders. There were 120 murders in London in 2011.

http://www.citizensreportuk.org/repo...n-murders.html
Sorry about the mix up.

For comparison NYC had 414 murders and 18 million people
London has 120 murders for 15 million people.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 05-28-2013, 03:32 PM
hillbillyreefer's Avatar
hillbillyreefer hillbillyreefer is online now
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,462
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ali#1 View Post
Sorry about the mix up.

For comparison NYC had 414 murders and 18 million people
London has 120 murders for 15 million people.
London's population is 8,174,100 (census 2011)

http://www.citizensreportuk.org/repo...n-murders.html

You sure do get a lot of numbers wrong, I guess you think it helps build your case. Some would call it deceitful.
__________________
I come here to visit with my anti freedom, anti individual friends!
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 05-28-2013, 04:15 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer View Post
London's population is 8,174,100 (census 2011)

http://www.citizensreportuk.org/repo...n-murders.html

You sure do get a lot of numbers wrong, I guess you think it helps build your case. Some would call it deceitful.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ng-8-3-million

And New York is 8 million.

Maybe he was looking at the greater metropolitan areas?
__________________
Mark Twain said it best... "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-28-2013, 04:17 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer View Post
The UK doesn't keep stats on gang violence. I wonder why? This reference from the BBC is about all I could find. Not overly helpful, but interesting. How is it possible that 60%of shootings are gang related. I thought guns were all but banned in England. It should be easy to keep them out, it is an island after all. (SARCASIM)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15238377

"At least half of the 27 murders of teenagers in London in 2007 were gang-related, according to the Metropolitan Police. Officers in Liverpool and Manchester have said in the past that 60% of shootings are linked to gangs."
I would just love to see a side by side comparison of who is being killed.

I do rank random killing of innocent people or murder for robbery, rape etc. as a different ranking that gang on gang violence for instance. Them folks should all be put onto a island...last man standing gets a free trip to Disneyworld before being sent to Saudi Arabia with a kilo of coke in his carry on.
__________________
Mark Twain said it best... "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-28-2013, 04:24 PM
dantonsen's Avatar
dantonsen dantonsen is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: edmonton
Posts: 1,361
Default

where's ol rocky7 when you need him, he was much better at re-hashing the same old guns arguements over and over and over.............annnnnnnnd over. lol

Fact is guns make it pretty easy for anyone to kill. I think alot of people would think twice or wouldnt have the physical strength to manually beat some one to death. Give them a gun and pop pop.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-28-2013, 04:40 PM
TomCanuck TomCanuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantonsen View Post
where's ol rocky7 when you need him, he was much better at re-hashing the same old guns arguements over and over and over.............annnnnnnnd over. lol

Fact is guns make it pretty easy for anyone to kill. I think alot of people would think twice or wouldnt have the physical strength to manually beat some one to death. Give them a gun and pop pop.
Speaking of tired old arguments, any more deep thoughts Jack?
__________________
Pacifists exist at the pleasure of the more aggressive, or by the sacrifices made by the less passive.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-28-2013, 06:34 PM
hillbillyreefer's Avatar
hillbillyreefer hillbillyreefer is online now
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,462
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
I would just love to see a side by side comparison of who is being killed.

I do rank random killing of innocent people or murder for robbery, rape etc. as a different ranking that gang on gang violence for instance. Them folks should all be put onto a island...last man standing gets a free trip to Disneyworld before being sent to Saudi Arabia with a kilo of coke in his carry on.
That would be very useful data. Gang affiliation, previous record, ethnicity, age, weapon, country of birth, sex, etc etc. And uniform data around the globe it would make things so much nicer. I looked up Venezuela but uncle Hugo quit keeping crime stats. I can only guess why!
__________________
I come here to visit with my anti freedom, anti individual friends!
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-28-2013, 06:55 PM
chasingtail chasingtail is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 960
Default

The murder rate has everything to do with the demographics of the United States and little to do with guns.

Murder Rate per 100,000
Africa:17
Mexico: 23.7
UK: 1.2
USA: 4.8

USA is actually doing pretty good for what they have to work with.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-28-2013, 09:16 PM
Unregistered user's Avatar
Unregistered user Unregistered user is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgree.
Posts: 2,589
Default

But But Mexico has such strict gun control, how on earth can people do all dem moiders?
__________________
Here there be morons.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-28-2013, 09:20 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered user View Post
But But Mexico has such strict gun control, how on earth can people do all dem moiders?
LOL...but Mexico has no real police force... just guys looking to take bribes and blame tourists for them falling off balconies after getting beat up.
__________________
Mark Twain said it best... "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-28-2013, 09:22 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasingtail View Post
The murder rate has everything to do with the demographics of the United States and little to do with guns.

Murder Rate per 100,000
Africa:17
Mexico: 23.7
UK: 1.2
USA: 4.8

USA is actually doing pretty good for what they have to work with.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate
__________________
Mark Twain said it best... "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 05-28-2013, 09:52 PM
Unregistered user's Avatar
Unregistered user Unregistered user is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgree.
Posts: 2,589
Default

Who's up for an Elephant burger?

From the World Health Organization:

The latest Murder Statistics for the world:

Murders per 100,000 citizens

Honduras 91.6
El Salvador 69.2
Cote d'lvoire 56.9
Jamaica 52.2
Venezuela 45.1
Belize 41.4
US Virgin Islands 39.2
Guatemala 38.5
Saint Kits and Nevis 38.2
Zambia 38.0
Uganda 36.3
Malawi 36.0
Lesotho 35.2
Trinidad and Tobago 35.2
Colombia 33.4
South Africa 31.8
Congo 30.8
Central African Republic 29.3
Bahamas 27.4
Puerto Rico 26.2
Saint Lucia 25.2
Dominican Republic 25.0
Tanzania 24.5
Sudan 24.2
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9
Ethiopia 22.5
Guinea 22.5
Dominica 22.1
Burundi 21.7
Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7
Panama 21.6
Brazil 21.0
Equatorial Guinea 20.7
Guinea-Bissau 20.2
Kenya 20.1
Kyrgyzstan 20.1
Cameroon 19.7
Montserrat 19.7
Greenland 19.2
Angola 19.0
Guyana 18.6
Burkina Faso 18.0
Eritrea 17.8
Namibia 17.2
Rwanda 17.1
Mexico 16.9
Chad 15.8
Ghana 15.7
Ecuador 15.2
North Korea 15.2
Benin 15.1
Sierra Leone 14.9
Mauritania 14.7
Botswana 14.5
Zimbabwe 14.3
Gabon 13.8
Nicaragua 13.6
French Guiana 13.3
Papua New Guinea 13.0
Swaziland 12.9
Bermuda 12.3
Comoros 12.2
Nigeria 12.2
Cape Verde 11.6
Grenada 11.5
Paraguay 11.5
Barbados 11.3
Togo 10.9
Gambia 10.8
Peru 10.8
Myanmar 10.2
Russia 10.2
Liberia 10.1
Costa Rica 10.0
Nauru 9.8
Bolivia 8.9
Mozambique 8.8
Kazakhstan 8.8
Senegal 8.7
Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7
Mongolia 8.7
British Virgin Islands 8.6
Cayman Islands 8.4
Seychelles 8.3
Madagascar 8.1
Indonesia 8.1
Mali 8.0
Pakistan 7.8
Moldova 7.5
Kiribati 7.3
Guadeloupe 7.0
Haiti 6.9
Timor-Leste 6.9
Anguilla 6.8
Antigua and Barbuda 6.8
Lithuania 6.6
Uruguay 5.9
Philippines 5.4
Ukraine 5.2
Estonia 5.2
Cuba 5.0
Belarus 4.9
Thailand 4.8
Suriname 4.6
Laos 4.6
Georgia 4.3
Martinique 4.2

And

The United States 4.2

ALL the countries above America have 100% gun bans
__________________
Here there be morons.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.