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Old 07-28-2013, 06:39 AM
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Anyone seeing any fawns? I have counted a total of 1 in all my miles. Total antelope is bad. Just caught wind SRD is upping buck tags to around 600 and doe tags are goin up as well, didnt catch figure. Whats wrong with keepin it where it was? Gotta wonder why the increase? Pretty tough deal out here
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:26 AM
Secret coulee Secret coulee is offline
 
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Hear what your sayin pack hunter,I've got a few tanks of fuel in myself in AMA E red deer river south myself antelope #'s are brutal and fawn #'s even worse I'm only seein one fawn for every 7 does about 14% not good,can't quite seem to figure out why our preciouse over paid bios can't seem to get out of the sexy office and throw a little fuel at the miles of roads we have in altelope country instead wating for the big money bird to hit the air and start extrapolating antelope #'s and tell us how many goats we have in the field
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by packhuntr View Post
Anyone seeing any fawns? I have counted a total of 1 in all my miles. Total antelope is bad. Just caught wind SRD is upping buck tags to around 600 and doe tags are goin up as well, didnt catch figure. Whats wrong with keepin it where it was? Gotta wonder why the increase? Pretty tough deal out here
I'm with you on this one pack , why have a doe season , period? Here in 108 I'm seeing better numbers of fawns this year than the past couple but no reason to up numbers . SRD can't seem to count grizzlies , why would we expect them to get an antelope count done right .
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:54 AM
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Is SRD really that incompetent, or are they are pretending that we have more pronghorns than we do, and increasing the resident tag numbers, as an excuse for not reducing the outfitter allocations? SRD appears to be doing their best to destroy our game populations.
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:05 AM
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Is SRD really that incompetent, or are they are pretending that we have more pronghorns than we do, and increasing the resident tag numbers, as an excuse for not reducing the outfitter allocations?
With numbers that exist and the length of time it takes to get drawn...it makes me wonder why we have an antelope hunt at all.

Perhaps we should be looking at bi-annual hunts and axing everything but resident draws until the numbers are sufficient to reduce draw wait times to every 3 or 4 years max.

To be honest...with virtually everything on a draw now... isn't it time that someone asks government whether or not a hunt industry can be supported at all...when residents have less opportunity than non-residents to hunt most species?

Its ridiculous... residents see their opportunities sold to people who have no vested interest in the province or its wildlife and have never supported it through traxes or any other tangible contribution.

The only advantage we seem to have...is that we can vote...maybe its time to remind the pointy heads in Edmonton of that.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:36 AM
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Based on SRD's population estimates I am relieved to hear that Pronghorn licences may be returned to the appropriate allocation for Residents after what has happened over the last two years.

In 2011 and 2012, Resident hunters have been shorted over 1600 Trophy licences that should have been issued based on population estimates and the Pronghorn management plan. The question of WHY Residents have been shorted these licences has become a contentious issue within AFGA and APOS, with SRD needing to account for their decisions.



I alluded to this issue in a couple of recent threads. Residents have been getting screwed on the reduction of Trophy Antelope licences in 2011 and 2012.






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Old 07-28-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by packhuntr View Post
Anyone seeing any fawns? I have counted a total of 1 in all my miles. Total antelope is bad. Just caught wind SRD is upping buck tags to around 600 and doe tags are goin up as well, didnt catch figure. Whats wrong with keepin it where it was? Gotta wonder why the increase? Pretty tough deal out here
I saw alot of them a month ago.....but now see none,I honestly think coyotes killed them off where I was seeing them.

I dont think they should have increased the tags given out,but they probley did so mostly for political reasons......Saskatchewan doesnt have a season for the 3rd year now....On the same token they dont have Antelope outfitters Neither.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:02 AM
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Numbers are not stellar, but spotting last night see a good number..

They are in small groups, dozen to two dozen and not the big groups..

On a good note, seen the heaviest goat I have ever come across... Unreal trophy for some lucky hunter.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:10 AM
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I saw alot of them a month ago.....but now see none,I honestly think coyotes killed them off where I was seeing them.

I dont think they should have increased the tags given out,but they probley did so mostly for political reasons......Saskatchewan doesnt have a season for the 3rd year now....On the same token they dont have Antelope outfitters Neither.

What are the population estimates and goals in Saskatchewan? Are you sure that you are making a valid comparison?
Your cousin gave up sex so you should?



Harvesting Males at a conservative level (20-25% of the buck population) will Not impact the reproductive potential of the herd. There is no good reason why Alberta Residents have received over 800 fewer licences per year in 2011 and 2012 based on the population estimates.

In speaking with those who were in the airplanes doing the counts, the confidence levels in the estimates are strong that the count was valid on the minimum number of Pronghorns, if anything the estimate is conservative. There has been a definite increase in the population.



Check out the graphs I provided. The long term average Trophy licences issued from 2001-10 is 8.7% of the population. In 2011 and 2012, we received 1.7and 1.9%, or a reduction of 80% in licences from what the Pronghorn management plan policy mandates. There was and is no conservation concern based on the population estimates, so WHY were Residents shorted so many Trophy licences?
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:50 AM
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In speaking with those who were in the airplanes doing the counts, the confidence levels in the estimates are strong that the count was valid on the minimum number of Pronghorns, if anything the estimate is conservative. There has been a definite increase in the population.



Check out the graphs I provided.
Of course those doing the counts tell you that the confidence levels are high. Would they admit to a poor count?
Ask them how there confidence was in 2002 with a count that was possibly erroneous with the population fluctuating from 16,600 to 12,750 and then back in one year. I'm very suspicious of these counts but you already knew that.

And does it really matter anyways? With nearly 30,000 res/nr in the draw, increasing every year, and 600-1000 tags, the future for antelope hunting is dismal given the current seasons.
Instead of worrying about 600 tags, worry about the validity of the applicants and change the policy so that only residents get a chance. And possibly add a ML season or whatever else to get more of these applicants in the field, whether they are successful or not, who cares.

Thanks for the info WB and great work!
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:19 AM
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Of course those doing the counts tell you that the confidence levels are high. Would they admit to a poor count?
Ask them how there confidence was in 2002 with a count that was possibly erroneous with the population fluctuating from 16,600 to 12,750 and then back in one year. I'm very suspicious of these counts but you already knew that.

And does it really matter anyways? With nearly 30,000 res/nr in the draw, increasing every year, and 600-1000 tags, the future for antelope hunting is dismal given the current seasons.
Instead of worrying about 600 tags, worry about the validity of the applicants and change the policy so that only residents get a chance. And possibly add a ML season or whatever else to get more of these applicants in the field, whether they are successful or not, who cares.

Thanks for the info WB and great work!


One would have to look deeper into the 2002 count to reason why the number is out of place. Was there a reduction in the area surveyed, a winterkill, high fawn mortality, a late migration such as happened in 2011? The survey technique is proven and used worldwide. There are safety measures in place to allow for underestimation but not overestimation of the population. Then the safety measures for controlled harvest compound the conservation protocols. The 2002 count does not give me concern that the biologist are not doing a good job in their surveys.

Yes, those doing the surveys would state their opinion of the survey's quality regardless if it was positive or negative. You will find that information is even included in the official reports, as it is an important part of the survey analysis. What those doing the flights have to say in private is even more credible.


I am worried about the loss of 1800+ Resident trophy licences in two years. That is a significant number that SRD needs to account for.


The issue of applications and NR is a separate matter to this issue of reduced licences.



Thanks to a patient teacher I am finally getting the hang of this graph stuff....
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:05 AM
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Maybe they had the bios that scored three of my buddies antelope on the inside for length doing the counts from the air that yr?
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:00 AM
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Ever wonder why Buff that the guys actually out there seeing what is going on are all agreeing and say a couple bios are doing a poor job?? These guys in here know antelope and live with them daily!! They know when numbers are off before anyone! You should maybe get off your ass and spend some time in all areas before saying that counts and such are right!! Your the first one that jumped and said sheep counts are biased and not accurate bit had no experience there either!!! You really need to get out from behind the key board and get out into more of the province. The hunters that live and breath these areas know what is happening and most are multi generations so the families have watched things for years. They know their **** far better that anyone!!

Studies and counts say exactly what those studying and counting what them to!!
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:32 AM
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Lots of twins and singles down our way. Things are looking good for my trophy draw also. Can't wait till September.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:36 AM
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Still large herds out our way. Some of the largest herds are in a zone that is off limits for antelope hunting. Some large billies. They made out fine this winter.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:56 AM
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Ever wonder why Buff that the guys actually out there seeing what is going on are all agreeing and say a couple bios are doing a poor job?? These guys in here know antelope and live with them daily!! They know when numbers are off before anyone! You should maybe get off your ass and spend some time in all areas before saying that counts and such are right!! Your the first one that jumped and said sheep counts are biased and not accurate bit had no experience there either!!! You really need to get out from behind the key board and get out into more of the province. The hunters that live and breath these areas know what is happening and most are multi generations so the families have watched things for years. They know their **** far better that anyone!!

Studies and counts say exactly what those studying and counting what them to!!
You sure must miss tj..... nope, I will not be your next dance partner....

I guess the dozen ranchers I visited over the last two weeks are wrong cause they don't post on this forum....

There is a big difference in how pronghorn and sheep surveys have been done.

So you are saying that all studies and surveys are biased towards an agenda to the extent of being invalid....What a stupid statement.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:13 AM
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Numbers are not stellar, but spotting last night see a good number..

They are in small groups, dozen to two dozen and not the big groups..

On a good note, seen the heaviest goat I have ever come across... Unreal trophy for some lucky hunter.
Did you get a pic of him Sled? No Im not drawing a tag, just wanna see him. Haha.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:30 AM
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Wb. I dont wanna get into it with you again so I wont. I must say though, it does not look good on the afga and friends when all they step up to the plate for are more tags. Justifiable? I think not slim. On a personal level, you need to stop singing the tune you are here, it looks extremely bad on you.
Hey, one more thing, please be more cautious as to who's word you take as gospel, it would seem your dozen or so rancher acquaintances dont have a red sniff either. Either that, or much more likely, fabrication to strengthen a bs "opinion", was another pizz poor call. Have a normal day.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:35 AM
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Did you get a pic of him Sled? No Im not drawing a tag, just wanna see him. Haha.
Will get a picture of him as they water twice a day at the farm.. Caught him at last light when coming home from spotting Mule deer..

He is a beast, if someone draws a tag I may be open to helping them out
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:40 AM
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Cool man. Ive yet to see anything really big this yr. I hope to draw a bow tag over west though.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:42 PM
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I'm hoping I draw a tag this year and do the best I can with what's running around. If I do it will be my first time ever hunting southern AB and I'm looking forward to a new experience!
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:33 PM
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Will get a picture of him as they water twice a day at the farm.. Caught him at last light when coming home from spotting Mule deer..

He is a beast, if someone draws a tag I may be open to helping them out
you don't say.....lol

I just may know a guy holding a stinker tag this fall. I hear you helped out a good guy last year with a goat tag. that was exceptionally generous, and I know he really appreciated that. now this year.....an even nicer guy who is even better looking is going to have an archery tag......
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:22 AM
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Isb. Please do dont do your scouting here. If you need to, start a thread. Im certain a rookie will get help if he says that he understands time, fuel and logistics cost money.... Theres a handful on here that might have an antelope or two, and for the right price will drive u straight to them, if your tipping they might drag u in on one so u get it done too lol. Have fun with your scouting, it is alot of fun. Good luck, i look forward to seeing your antelope thread soon!
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:18 AM
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Isb. Please do dont do your scouting here. If you need to, start a thread. Im certain a rookie will get help if he says that he understands time, fuel and logistics cost money.... Theres a handful on here that might have an antelope or two, and for the right price will drive u straight to them, if your tipping they might drag u in on one so u get it done too lol. Have fun with your scouting, it is alot of fun. Good luck, i look forward to seeing your antelope thread soon!
Dont ever have much to say ,unless your lookin to pick a fight eh Pack

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Old 07-31-2013, 11:25 AM
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you don't say.....lol

I just may know a guy holding a stinker tag this fall. I hear you helped out a good guy last year with a goat tag. that was exceptionally generous, and I know he really appreciated that. now this year.....an even nicer guy who is even better looking is going to have an archery tag......
LoL the antelope god scouting on the net!!!
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:52 PM
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Holy crap. I guess this answers the question: "how to get a thread locked?"


Answer: mention one of the following in the thread title; Sheep, APOS, Indians, ATVs, Antelope....


FWIW, I am out in the SE every week. Granted, I don't live there, however I am seeing 'decent' numbers if antelope. Lots of bucks and a fair number of fawns.

I am all for an increase in buck tags (in recently surveyed zones)... not sure any increase on non-trophy is warranted if populations are below target.
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:06 PM
Secret coulee Secret coulee is offline
 
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I am brand new to the AO but been watching and reading for many years now,and funny thing about an antelope post like this one and there has been a few others in the past,is that a lot of people on here don't have a sniff about what's going on out in antelope country from year to year,because of some of the incredibly dumb things that have been said about trophy quality,population goals and estimates,only one way to reveal ASRD frogulent and scewed numbers and thats to give a **** about the resource and be in the mix from year in to year out,in most cases when some of these loud mouthes now what's really goin on in the field is when they pull a trophy antelope tag every 7-12 years and now even longer so they really have now prespective about what goes on from year to year and that's a problem when your runnin your mouth on this forum when your basing your arguments on ASRD's management numbers from year to year so the only thing most people really now was the last time they pulled a tag and most only now the days they hunted cause they rolled in the day before the opener,just seems to me thers a lot of loose lips on here that just talk to talk or even gotta try to be a big wheel just my observations
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:21 PM
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LoL the antelope god scouting on the net!!!
Lolol hum-dinger eh lol, way too funny!
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:33 PM
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That about nails er down flat secret coulee. Easy now, your not gonna fit in around here if your not more careful lol! Try to keep it to just killin stuff no matter and you'll be just fine lol
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:48 PM
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secret coulee ... your bang on... too many on here reading about lope hunting and hunt every 10 years or so. Some of us are fortunate to live right amongst the lopes year round, year after year and see the herds fluctuate.
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