Remington under fire

[leo]

Documentary investigation on CNBC from 9-10 am today. All about their trigger group being unsafe in model 700,s. Very damning evidence! Especially Mike Walkers interview saying he told Remington of the problem as early as 1946.

[north american hunter]

This is why I do not buy Remington's anymore!

[Pathfinder76]

This is old news. Watch Remington's rebuttal as well.

[kritz]

Originally Posted by chuck

This is old news. Watch Remington's rebuttal as well.

This has been on for a long time, But that being said it is a very good, very interesting show to watch if you have interest in guns, every gun enthusiast should watch this. it probably changed the way manufacturers do the qa/qc today .

[leo]

Originally Posted by north american hunter

This is why I do not buy Remington's anymore!

I wouldn't let this stop me from buying a Remington rifle, they are very well designed firearms, but I would be cautious about adjusting the trigger yourselves. Apparently this is a bigger issue with rifles pre 1982.

Originally Posted by chuck

This is old news. Watch Remington's rebuttal as well.

What's your point? If someone see's this documentary and or this post, and it prevents just 1 death or injury, then it was worth the time it took to type it. Further more, by Remington's own admission, they found 1% of firearms could have this problem. How many models of Remington had these triggers and safety's since the inception of the model 721 until the x mark trigger? Also, Mike Walker who designed the rifle and trigger told them of the "potential " problem and provided a 5.5 cent fix back in the 40's, which Remington rejected.

Originally Posted by kritz

This has been on for a long time, But that being said it is a very good, very interesting show to watch if you have interest in guns, every gun enthusiast should watch this. it probably changed the way manufacturers do the qa/qc today .

I agree, it was worth while to watch. I have heard about the issue, but this was the first time I had seen the documented investigation, which is why I posted. I'm sure others haven't seen or heard of it either.
LM

[Pathfinder76]

My point is to watch both sides. Clear?

[skidderman]

I believe it was just a few cents a rifle that would have corrected the problem but they would not do it. All they had to do was mark up their guns a few cents and the issue never would have come up. Sure makes a person wonder.

[TomCanuck]

I'd rather hunt with a safety conscious hunter with a Remington 700 than a fool with any other type of rifle.

If you don't understand that any firearm has the potential for an unintended discharge, then you aren't qualified to use a firearm in my view.

Never point a firearm at anything you don't want shot. It really is that simple.

[Boundless_84]

Originally Posted by leo

What's your point? If someone see's this documentary and or this post, and it prevents just 1 death or injury, then it was worth the time it took to type it. Further more, by Remington's own admission, they found 1% of firearms could have this problem. How many models of Remington had these triggers and safety's since the inception of the model 721 until the x mark trigger? Also, Mike Walker who designed the rifle and trigger told them of the "potential " problem and provided a 5.5 cent fix back in the 40's, which Remington rejected.
LM

Perhaps if people actually practiced proper firearms handling the deaths and injuries would be avoided regardless of any real or potential mechanical defect. Listen to both sides of the story before making conclusions.

Remington's Responses to CNBC

[michaelmicallef]

If I pay good money for something I expect it, all of it, to work properly. Remington might make a good rifle but thier lack of interest to save thier reputation indicates that as a company they "suck". I still might buy one of thier rifles one day but I do it knowing that I can change as many parts with after market parts as I like. That's the only reason I would buy one .

[missingtwo]

To all those that watch this. I am in the market for your no good, dangerous model 700's. Please p.m. me Thanks.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by michaelmicallef

If I pay good money for something I expect it, all of it, to work properly. Remington might make a good rifle but thier lack of interest to save thier reputation indicates that as a company they "suck". I still might buy one of thier rifles one day but I do it knowing that I can change as many parts with after market parts as I like. That's the only reason I would buy one .

Any mechanical device can fail. The idea that you can expect to have zero risk of an unintentional discharge is simply false.

[Coho911]

So a info-mentary, produced by a Liberal media outlet has some firearms supporters taking their side ?…..

Hand in your Mancards please.

Remington corrected the issues and sent out press releases for fixes. Besides - this is why NO MATTER WHAT - you always consider where you are pointing your muzzle, are supposed to use binoculars to confirm a target - not a scope, and it always safest to put your round in the chamber as you are about to shoot a target.

The Remington 700 has been around for YEARS because it is a good build.

[kaleh01]

For factory actions these are almost exclusively what I use. All of mine have aftermarket triggers which solve the safety issue. I feel for those injured and those that lost their lives or shot their loved ones but at the end of the day

You can't shoot what doesn't have the muzzle pointed at it!

[Dick284]

Two things stand out here.

Basic firearms handling and safety.

20 thousandths of an inch!( minimum sear engagement)

Screw up on one and you and those around you are at risk.

Screw up both, and the fuse has been lit!

[Leeper]

This is an issue (?) which re-surfaces about every two years or so. The documentary is slanted, Jack Belk is wrong, Walker could have done better. The trith is this:
At the time, Walker designed the BEST, fully adjustable, trigger the World had seen. The design had some flaws. Some were related to the design but most were related to manufacturing methods and quality control. As a corporate entity, Remington could have done more but their recall efforts in the late seventies and early eighties were as much as could be done short of a re-design. Most of the accidents which occurred were equally the fault of the gun handlers. Some were simply confirmation that **** happens. I have seen a multiplicity of similar occurances (though usually, thanks to good fortune, without injury) from other "safer" designs. Leeper

[nof60]

Rifle should not come with a "SAFETY". Every gun should be treated as loaded always. Why are people running around with one in the spout, cocked and ready to rip and depending on a stupid mechanical device to prevent accidental discharge. I have had an accidental discharge from a Sako. Trigger screws were lose and when I closed the bolt it went bang. I was putting a round in to shoot a moose so no harm to anyone but my freezer and my shorts. Bugged me so much I got rid of the gun even though it was simply a case of a loose screw. Point is don't rely on a safety. It is mechanical and therefore it can fail.

[Spartikus]

Leeper I'm with you mate. I'll admit I didnt concider Remi's when I purchased my guns because of these issues and I am still cool with that. All that being said though how many millions of these guns are out there and work perfectly.

I will say this. There was an issue with the design/QC or whatever but still.. All of these tragedies that occured are 100% the gun handlers responsibility. I let me 10 year old handle my rifles whenever I have them out but before I give him the guns I check the chamber EVERY TIME and I force him to check the chamber once I have checked it and handed it to him. Not only that but the direction of the barrel is always in a safe position. When I bought him his 177 pellet rifle we spent the first week shooting together learning safe pointing of the firearm.

The tragedies that happened are horrible. I don't like that there are still so many guns out there that aren't as safe as they could be but... Like someone else said, I'll take 10 shooters with unsafe guns that handle them safely over 1 idiot with a "safe" gun that doesnt follow rudimentary safety protocols.

/rant off

PS: Mossberg 4 life. Ok Browning 4 life too..

[CheeseBurger]

Not this again....

[Robmcleod82]

This is what I think of safeties

I will never teach someone who is new to firearms to use a safety all that does is promote complacency in safe firearms handling. Also hard for some to imagine but a rifle is a mechanical device and as such is prone to failure. The trigger parts have even been known to wear out.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by leo

What's your point? If someone see's this documentary and or this post, and it prevents just 1 death or injury, then it was worth the time it took to type it.
LM

If they wanted to save just one life they should have payed attention to where they were pointing their firearm and properly maintained it. To me it's like driving irresponsibly for conditions and rolling over your car, killing one of your children then blaming the brakes for the child's death.

Anyway, watch the rebuttal video and see the other side of the story. The media left out a few facts in their Remington sabotage video . Why did the pick on Remington, because it's the biggest richest target, it's not like triggers on guns of other manufacturers do not also have similar problems when they are not maintained properly or adjusted improperly, some come right out of the box with factory defects.

[kaleh01]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

some come right out of the box with factory defects.

Haha, like any box that says Savage! send it back across the counter before they get your hard earned cash!

[greylynx]

Remington?

I thought they were a NASCAR team.

Wutz with guns?

[Mateo]

I had a remington 700 (1984 model) come to me this year that had accidentally discharged. I took it apart and found the trigger ridiculously dirty. Old grease and grit everywhere. The po had put grease all over the firing pin spring. It cold weather this led to misfires. I took it in and cleaned everything up real nice and bed the action. It's a great shooter. .75-1 moa. I often wonder how many of these unsafe trigger stories are linked to dirty triggers. Ie, uncared for guns. So now, because of this issue, we have the x-mark pro trigger, designed by lawyers and most people replace it because of its low level of performance.

[fish gunner]

Have a buddy with a mod 37 ithaca it unsafeties its self after20-30 min walking. No weapon loaded should be considered safe. The person holding the firearm should be safe as houses. Imo.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by chuck

My point is to watch both sides. Clear?

Chuck, when faulty designs are killing people there aren't two sides. I have watched both. Remington had a problem for decades that they were informed of and could have fixed. That really is the beginning and end of the story. They have done so now. Way, way overdue. Too late for the families of those who died.

[elkhunter11]

I don't trust safeties on any firearm. I am careful that I don't aim firearms anywhere that I don't want to shoot, whether the safety is on or not. If everyone else did the same, people would not be killed or injured when firearms are accidentally discharged.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by sns2

Chuck, when faulty designs are killing people there aren't two sides. I have watched both. Remington had a problem for decades that they were informed of and could have fixed. That really is the beginning and end of the story. They have done so now. Way, way overdue. Too late for the families of those who died.

FFS, the only thing any of those people died from was a lack of firearm handling skills. The trick in life is to be at least 10% smarter than the tools you use. Anyone who can't fathom that should stay home and play tiddly-winks.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't trust safeties on any firearm. I am careful that I don't aim firearms anywhere that I don't want to shoot, whether the safety is on or not. If everyone else did the same, people would not be killed or injured when firearms are accidentally discharged.

Indeed I agree...never rely on the safety, only time I use one is if a sudden cease fire is called on the range...then I survey the situation and unload the firearm leaving the action open to prove safe.

LC

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by sns2

Chuck, when faulty designs are killing people there aren't two sides.

Faulty trigger or not there should be nobody getting shot. People ignoring firearm safety pointing loaded firearms at other people is why people are dying. It simply comes down to people refusing to take responsibility for their actions. Blame the gun when they should be blaming the negligent idiot that is pointing loaded weapons at other people. It is a federal offence to point a loaded gun at another person. If someone gets shot it is directly and 100% the fault of the person who pointed a loaded weapon at another person. Whether the safety/trigger malfunctioned is irrelevant . A firearm has to be assumed capable of discharge any time it is loaded, safety or not, it is the owners responsibility to see that it isn't pointed at people or anything else they don't want shot.