Your Optometrist in Edmonton

Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > General Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-24-2008, 11:24 AM
Scott N Scott N is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,997
Default Contesting a Photo Radar Ticket

Has anyone tried to fight a photo radar ticket in traffic court? A few weeks ago I was driving home on Memorial Drive here in Calgary and just as a car was passing me, the tell tale flash of the photo radar van went off. I'm sure that I wasn't speeding, and surely not doing the 63 km/ hour (this is a 50 km zone) that the ticket indicates. The camera only flashed once.

I called the traffic enforcement office and asked if they would be able to provide the picture a few seconds before or after they took the picture that they took of my truck. The officer informed me that the privacy laws in Alberta wouldn't allow for that, which is understandable. She also informed me that any photo that has two vehicles in it is automatically tossed out. My truck is the only vehicle in the picture sent to me.

I'm sure that I was not speeding, and I also am sure that I would have seen a second flash of the camera if the car that was passing me had also got tagged.

I'm tempted to go to my court date and fight this, but I have no evidence to fight the photo that the police have of my truck. Think I should fight this, or just suck up and pay the $85? I've always viewed photo radar as a cash cow rather than traffic enforcement / safety, and it ticks me off that I seem to have received a ticket for someone else's speeding. I have no idea of how the cameras work, so I don't know how they are "aimed" and how the photo is taken. Is it possible that I am getting screwed here? And is it worth fighting? I don't want to waist a day in court if I don't stand a chance.
  #2  
Old 10-24-2008, 11:44 AM
Albertadiver's Avatar
Albertadiver Albertadiver is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,868
Default

If you're polite, clearly present your case, at a minimum you'll get it reduced.

That being said, what's your hourly cost? Is it worth time loss for you?
  #3  
Old 10-24-2008, 11:55 AM
Scott N Scott N is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,997
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albertadiver View Post
If you're polite, clearly present your case, at a minimum you'll get it reduced.

That being said, what's your hourly cost? Is it worth time loss for you?

Thanks for the reply. I'm self employed, so if I'm not working, I'm not making money. It's not really a consideration for me I guess as the work that I could be doing while in court can be done at another time. It's more of the principle I guess, but I don't want to waste my time or the court's time if I don't have a case to plead.
  #4  
Old 10-24-2008, 12:02 PM
hunterbyheart's Avatar
hunterbyheart hunterbyheart is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lethbridge
Posts: 280
Default

From an insurance stand point, photo radar does NOT count against you, so you won't be double dinged there.
__________________
Hunterbyheart
----------------------------
  #5  
Old 10-24-2008, 12:05 PM
Albertadiver's Avatar
Albertadiver Albertadiver is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,868
Default

BTW I drive that same route everyday after work. I never speed on memorial and haven't had a problem yet.
  #6  
Old 10-24-2008, 12:15 PM
camshaft camshaft is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 732
Default ticket

If your truck is the only vehicle in the picture....sorry to say, but you were speeding. You can plead "not guilty' and take your chances in court, but the multinova operator will be there with the same photos you were sent and testify that at the exact moment the picture was taken, you were the lead vehicle, and thus the vehicle in the frame when the picture was taken.

Odds are you will likely not be aquited. That being said, I encourage all those who feel they are innocent to go to court and have their say.

Good luck
  #7  
Old 10-24-2008, 12:18 PM
theduke's Avatar
theduke theduke is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,248
Default

u can get them reduced i got 5 in one week this month and took them to go get reduced the justice thought i was ******ed
  #8  
Old 10-24-2008, 12:20 PM
TheClash's Avatar
TheClash TheClash is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pheasant heaven....Magrath.
Posts: 5,506
Default

5 in one week???...sheesh....
  #9  
Old 10-24-2008, 12:30 PM
Scott N Scott N is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,997
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by camshaft View Post
If your truck is the only vehicle in the picture....sorry to say, but you were speeding. You can plead "not guilty' and take your chances in court, but the multinova operator will be there with the same photos you were sent and testify that at the exact moment the picture was taken, you were the lead vehicle, and thus the vehicle in the frame when the picture was taken.

Odds are you will likely not be aquited. That being said, I encourage all those who feel they are innocent to go to court and have their say.

Good luck
While I still feel strongly that I was not speeding, it's hard to argue with the evidence. Since there was another car going quite a bit faster than me at the same time and passing the van at more or less the same time (within 1 or 2 seconds I would guess), should I not have seen the camera flash twice? If I was speeding, I wasn't the only one at the almost exact moment. The flash is very bright and noticable. You seem to know a little of how these cameras operate, so I'm just wondering what you think.
  #10  
Old 10-24-2008, 12:32 PM
TheClash's Avatar
TheClash TheClash is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pheasant heaven....Magrath.
Posts: 5,506
Default

1 or 2 seconds is a lifetime for high speed cameras. if you were 1 or 2 seconds behind the car in front of you...it caught you not the other car. but you can still get it reduced.
  #11  
Old 10-24-2008, 12:52 PM
theduke's Avatar
theduke theduke is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClash View Post
5 in one week???...sheesh....
i know it was rough but sometimes u deserive it when ur not paying attention and have other things on ur mind
  #12  
Old 10-24-2008, 12:53 PM
Kanonfodder's Avatar
Kanonfodder Kanonfodder is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 3,671
Default

Question how big is the blowup of your vehicle? If memory serves me, you get 2 photos one of our vehicle one of your plate. Goto court and ask for 2 pieces of information
1 a blowup of the picture of your vehicle ( in other words their original )
2 ask when the last time the radar gun was certified and calibrated.
  #13  
Old 10-24-2008, 12:58 PM
Justagirl's Avatar
Justagirl Justagirl is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 383
Default

Wasn't there recently a huge story in Devon, Alberta about a brand new, i dunno "photo tech" wasn't trained properly. And there were people getting up to 4 tickets a day going back and forth on the highway? a whole bunch of people complained and I seem to recall they threw out all tickets in a couple week span. I'm not sure if I'm recalling correctly the story it was awhile ago. However, It does prove that these photo radar set ups are not infallible. Like someone else said though, how much is your time worth to you? Good luck
  #14  
Old 10-24-2008, 01:14 PM
Albertahog
Deactivated
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
My truck is the only vehicle in the picture sent to me.

I'm sure that I was not speeding,
Just pay the ticket it will be much cheaper in the long run.
  #15  
Old 10-24-2008, 03:10 PM
BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES is offline
Deactivated
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fort Saskatchewan Ab
Posts: 9,083
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albertadiver View Post
If you're polite, clearly present your case, at a minimum you'll get it reduced.

That being said, what's your hourly cost? Is it worth time loss for you?
Well Ill kindly reply to this .... If he feels he is not in the wrong , its worth the loss in pay , why let them win , Since ft saskatchewan has gotten that stupid radar camera thingy . Anyway If I were him and that can garuntee that doesnt speed , might be something in doing . But then agian theres a right way and a wrong way of going about things .
  #16  
Old 10-24-2008, 04:53 PM
Grizzly Adams's Avatar
Grizzly Adams Grizzly Adams is online now
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,485
Default

I love fighting tickets. Granted it's time away from work, but it can be entertaining, even if you don't win all the time. If you go to court, they'll have to provide the person, who issued you the ticket and you can ask him all kinds of embarrasing questions. You don't have to prove your innocence, just raise "reasonable doubt" and that can be really easy sometimes. And don't make the mistake of admitting there's a possibility you were speeding.
I'm going to court in Feb. to fight two tickets issued to me by one of our new Sherriffs. The tickets were issued in July and I had them set two different trial dates. Worst can happen is that I still have to pay the tickets, nothing major, but I've had 6 month's grace and the buggar that wrote me the tickets, will have to spend two days in court. As it is, I feell I have a good chance of beating both.
Grizz
__________________
"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
  #17  
Old 10-24-2008, 05:02 PM
redneck posse's Avatar
redneck posse redneck posse is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: third tree from the left second one over
Posts: 1,434
Default

a few years ago my buddy had one thrown out because the operator didn't have his photo radar sign out for warning people. don't know if there still have to put them out or not
__________________
you have the right to remain silent, anything you say will be misquoted and used against you.
  #18  
Old 10-24-2008, 05:09 PM
James M's Avatar
James M James M is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 2,004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott N View Post
She also informed me that any photo that has two vehicles in it is automatically tossed out. My truck is the only vehicle in the picture sent to me.
Lies....I got 2 this past summer and one picture had 2 vehicles...one in each lane.
  #19  
Old 10-24-2008, 11:59 PM
Nomad Nomad is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fort Saskatchewan
Posts: 364
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by james_m View Post
Lies....I got 2 this past summer and one picture had 2 vehicles...one in each lane.
It depends on the type of radar used. If it is photo radar, conventional radar is used, and is less accurate and is usually thrown out if there is another vehicle in the picture. Laser radar is becoming more common as it is more accurate. The speed is measured by an operator pointing a laser gun at your vehicle and the laser beam measures your speed rather than radar. If it is laser the only aguement is usually vehicle identification. If it is radar there could many arguements besides a vehicle. The two best ones I've heard were a train and a bird in the picture. If you show up in court make sure you ask the crown ahead of time for full disclosure. They'll provide you with all the evidence they can use against you. I've been to court 5 times, 3 were thrown out, 2 were reduced to $80. Here's a helpful site, I know it's BC but most of it applies. Good luck.

http://www.sense.bc.ca/fighting.htm
  #20  
Old 10-25-2008, 12:27 AM
bighorn1 bighorn1 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rocky Mtn House
Posts: 257
Default

I had a rather unusal situation this past summer i recieved one and was the only one in the photo however it was in a company truck and lo and behold we are all gps monitored. to make a lng story short they had a lot of explaining to do when the gps logs were presented in court and i was 7 km under, needless to say it was tossed.
  #21  
Old 10-25-2008, 04:21 AM
gitrdun
Deactivated
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If they sent a picture of your trucking speeding, why not send them a picture of you in the act of writing a cheque?
  #22  
Old 10-25-2008, 05:12 AM
Scott N Scott N is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,997
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gitrdun View Post
If they sent a picture of your trucking speeding, why not send them a picture of you in the act of writing a cheque?

I remember when photo radar was first used in Alberta and reading about some guy who took a picture of the money to pay his fine and sent the photo in with his ticket. IIRC, he was charged with contempt of court! Too funny....
  #23  
Old 10-25-2008, 05:44 AM
TangoKilo's Avatar
TangoKilo TangoKilo is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lethbridge
Posts: 1,269
Default

I have some experiance in this area.

I would suggest that you go down to the Calgary courthouse 2nd floor on or before the date on your ticket. You will be given the opportunity to speak with a traffic comissoner. Explain your case as you see it and that you would be willing to enter a guilty plea in return for a reasonable reduction.

The court date on your ticket is only a 1st apperance. This means that you are given the opportunity to plead guilty or not guilty and set a trial date from there. If you are planning to go to trial, fill out the back of the ticket to plead not guilty by mail. You will recieve a letter some weeks later with a trial date. Send this in and it will at least save you one day in downtown calgary.
__________________
"I find it amazing that we, as a society, find it so easy to view the perpetrators of crime with an understanding and knowing that they are suffering from the frailties of being a human being yet we cannot seem to extend that same courtesy to the very people we ask to face, on a daily basis, the worst that mankind has to offer."
-Dave (Whiskey Wish)-
  #24  
Old 10-25-2008, 05:53 AM
TreeGuy's Avatar
TreeGuy TreeGuy is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,635
Default

Scott, was the trap setup just west of 14st in front of the CBC building? If so, then you are free and clear even if you were doing 100kmph. They always park their vans their, but on the OPPOSITE side of the street. This means that they are parked illegally. Peace officers are forbidden to break the law while enforcing it. Being illegally parked constitutes breaking the law, thus your ticket is moot. Go to court, you will win if that is the case.

Tree
  #25  
Old 10-25-2008, 07:51 AM
Scott N Scott N is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,997
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeGuy View Post
Scott, was the trap setup just west of 14st in front of the CBC building? If so, then you are free and clear even if you were doing 100kmph. They always park their vans their, but on the OPPOSITE side of the street. This means that they are parked illegally. Peace officers are forbidden to break the law while enforcing it. Being illegally parked constitutes breaking the law, thus your ticket is moot. Go to court, you will win if that is the case.

Tree
TreeGuy, no, it was in the residentual area west of 52nd Street.
  #26  
Old 10-25-2008, 08:05 AM
TreeGuy's Avatar
TreeGuy TreeGuy is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,635
Default

You're pretty much hooped then. Pay it.

Tree
  #27  
Old 10-25-2008, 09:43 AM
spoiledsaskhunter spoiledsaskhunter is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 160
Default

chewed on this one for awhile beofre saying something......grizz, do you conduct your whole life that way, or just own up when you've screwed up?
  #28  
Old 10-25-2008, 10:05 AM
heybert heybert is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Md of Foothills
Posts: 753
Default

Grizz,
phot radar is different. It's all automatic so the operator cannot be at fault.
Scott N
The only thing you may have a hope in is the maintenance or procedure. The machine needs to be calibrated every so often and the operator has to go through steps to ensure the machine is working properly.
It sucks getting one, but $85 may not be worth your time. If you do go after them, good luck.
  #29  
Old 10-25-2008, 12:05 PM
Dylan's Avatar
Dylan Dylan is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 140
Default Photo of a Cheque

As I heard it years ago, it was a joke.

The guy received a photo radar ticket in the mail, so he sent in a photo of the cheque, in the amount of the fine. The agency then sent him back a photo of a pair of handcuffs, and he decided to pay his fine.

Just a bit of humour!

I know what you mean though, man - those can be a real b*tch and I've had a few where I was confident I wasn't in the wrong. I do speed when I consider it safe to do so, and when I'm guilty, I pay my tickets. I put on alot of miles for my job, both city and highway and I take that chance. I man-up and pay my fine whenever I get caught doing what I know I should be doing.

On the other hand though, I'm a man of principle and I will defend myself when I believe I've been falsely accused, or I have a "good reason.

Like the others have said, it it's worth it to go fight it on pricinple, do so, and often times they'll just toss it. If it's worth it for you to spend most of the day waiting for your turn in court, then go plead your case. Even if still convicted of the offense the judge will often grant a reduced fine/charge, time to pay, etc.

Your defense seems legitimate and the onus is on the court to PROVE it was you, the onus is NOT on you to prove your innocence. I had a ticket dropped (a real ticket, not photo) because a punk kid was changing lanes erratically and tailgating, so I sped up to get out of the lane - just as I did so, I got nailed with laser. I thanked the officer for his time, as it isn't his job to determine guilt. I fought the ticket, and the judge tossed it.

I had one a couple years back, in the fall where I had just put my winter tires on for the year. The black steel rims and tires are overall about 3 inches taller than my summer, lo-profile tires. That makes a big difference on the speedometer, and although I make a point of adjusting accordingly, I had just put them on for the year and wasn't thinking. I came over the J MacDonald bridge in Edmonton, my laser detector went off, I checked my speedo and was doing exactly the limit. When I got waved over, I went "crap! the bigger tires"! Again, thanked the officer, and when I went to court, I told the whole story, including the fact that I checked my speed due to my laser detector going off. Judge ruled in my favour and told me I should get properly sized tires or have my system re-calibrated!

In another instance, I was on the phone with EPS dispatch, reporting a suspected impaired driver (3:00AM). EPS told me to keep up with him as it was safe to do so, but not to jeopardize the public safety. The drunk driver sailed thru a yellow light, leaving me with stopped at a red. No traffic coming from either direction, clear roads and good visibility so I proceeded through the light after making a full stop. Sure enough I got a red light ticket (photo) and between the police report, the transcript from EPS dispatch and the times matching up, that ticket was tossed also.

Thats the biggest issue I have with photo enforcement from a legal an philisophical standpoint. Its all black and white, with no room for human interest or compassion. They leave that side of it up to the courts I suppose, but if you explain it on the side of the road like you can with real police, you dont need to waste a day in court to accomplish the same objective.....

A justice of the peace is an option too, and you can often just "drop in" without waiting for your court date but he can't dismiss a charge, only offer concessions like time to pay, reduced fine, etc.

I just finished fighting one, and assuming they haven't cleared the backlog at the courts, expect your court date to be sometime next spring or summer!
__________________
Aequitas / Veritas

-Dylan
  #30  
Old 10-25-2008, 12:36 PM
Matt L.'s Avatar
Matt L. Matt L. is online now
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Whitecourt
Posts: 4,134
Default

Thought I'd jump in here and add my $.02 worth. A girl who goes top the same school as I do was caught running a stop sign this summer. She decided she was goin' to fight it; even though she told everyone in school that she was guilty, didn't matter she described how she was goin' to lie and all that. So anyways, she gets to court; the lady cop pulls her aside and asks her why she's fightin' the ticket. The girl says because I stopped. The cop says well, just wait and see then. It turns the cops have cameras in their cruisers and she taped this girl runnin' the stop sign!

Oh, and to all wct mayerthorpe people, it was the black ghost car so be on your toes!
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.