Wolf Cull

kodiak1 · #1 10-25-2008

On Global News tonight at 6, the Alberta Government is bowing out of the Wolf Culling program in West- Central part of the Province due to Public pressure.

Now let's talk about how many 6PT. elk draws are available for 2008 elk season.

W.M.U. 416 There is 6, yes I said only 6 DRAWS ( Panther River)

W.M.U. 417 There is 12 DRAWS ( Wildhorse, Yara Creek, Limestone)

W.M.U. 418 There is 20 DRAWS (Ya Ha Tinda)

W.M.U. 420 There is 9 DRAWS (Clearwater River)

These are all stats straight from SRD biologist Anne Hubbs from Rocky Mountain House Phone #1-403-845-8235

Here is the draw stats for 6PT. elk draws for 2007 elk season.

W.M.U. 416 was 10 DRAWS

W.M.U. 417 was 21 DRAWS

W.M.U. 418 was 33 DRAWS

W.M.U. 420 was 15 DRAWS

I can go back for a number of years and give you the downward trend of SRD just cut the hunter draws cause that is just a stroke of the pen and you don't have to manage the wildlife then.

Now for elk population in the Northeast corner of Banff National Park out to the Ya Ha Tinda ranch the winter elk count in 1997 was 4500 head of elk and the winter of 2007 was 800.

Boy this is quite a difference in just 10 years. I wonder what has caused that big decrease.

savage_pro · #2 10-25-2008

well when this is all over all those tree huggin wolf lovers will have to look at is wolves. no more elk, moose, deer etc...

the public is the only thing that can do anything about this now

Don Meredith · #3 10-26-2008

The problem is the public has done something, stopped the wolf kill. The so-called pro-wolf people once again won the public relations war and got people to phone their MLAs etc. The pro-culling people just assumed they were right and that was enough. It's not about being right; it's about who is willing to sell their side of the story.

greywolf · #4 10-26-2008

too bad, I guess its up to us hunters/trappers to cull them on our own.

Why the hell doesn't fish and wildlife keep there mouth shut and just go and do the cull.

sbtennex · #5 10-26-2008

Have nothing against wolves generally - good populations usually mean healthy populations of the ungulates. However, where I've been living the last 30 years, I can recall only seeing a couple of them, rare sighting in the farmland. We now seem to have a big bunch, 25-30 in one pack which seems to me to be kind of odd - that's way too many way too close to my house. No wonder my dogs have been going crazy at night the last few weeks. Soon as it freezes a bit better and we have snow that stays, they're going to get thinned out. Explains the real weird behavior of the local elk herds - they seem to disappear every few days then reappear a day or two later. Buddy of mine shot a big bear a couple of weeks ago that made it into the bush, just at dark, so they left it until daylight. By morning there was virtually nothing left of it. Wolves came thru that night and ate the whole damned bear. With the easy pickings available to them I can think of no reason for them to move out on their own and I'm really hoping they don't or haven't already developed a taste for beef. Varminator time has come, like it or not. On the plus side, the coyotes sure are spooked and are keeping a lot quieter at night.

kodiak1 · #6 10-26-2008

Great comments Don.

I have tried for a good number of years to tell the hunting community that this was all going to happen, but everytime I put stats on the board the thread would fade away. You are exactly right the hunters have to write letters to SRD and especially to our MLA,s.

This all started in the 80's when the Banff National Park said they had too many Elk destroying the Aspen trees, bog birch, willow bushes and injurying people in Banff. They brought in a women to do a study and to make sure the wolves would be successful in recolonizing in the Park to control the ungulate species.

Well, they have succeeded in there mission. The ungulate population in the Park is so low, that the wolves have to migrate east into Provincial land to the east of the Park to eat and there is no more woman on the study, she is gone to ruin Quebec.

Its the balance between predator and prey that I am looking for. That's called management.

Also just to note that the GRIZZLY bears in this province are in trouble due to the actions of the WOLVES. Big packs of wolves, the grizzly has no chance to get any meat into his belly.

Now the grizzly has to go east and gets into trouble in the white zone (private land). The grizzlies prime habitat is in the green zone (forestry land), but when the wolves run you around you get tired of starvation and move down river and eat people and what ever you can find.

So Call Fish and Wildlife and your MLA's. That's if you ever want to hunt the huge TROPHY BULL ELK or any other ungulate species in the Eastern Slopes Region.

You also need to know that all Big game species are being eliminated by the big packes of wolves in the eastern slopes.

duffy4 · #7 10-26-2008

The wolf "Study/Cull" project west of Rocky was part of ongoing activities of the U of A in the area. SRD was a "partner" in it. I am wondering if it was the Uof A or SRd who pulled the pin on this.

With Fish & Wildlife the people out in the field offices most often have the good of the resource and the users (hunters and anglers) in mind. As you get up the line closer to the Minister, the more the concern goes political and concerned with voters.

As hunters we have to apply what pressure we can to the political level and also do what we can to educate the public as to the real reasons for sound wildlife (and preditor) management.

Science and not emotions should guide wildlife management.

Robin in Rocky

danhunt · #8 10-26-2008

I looked at the regs but I'm not finding what the rules are for hunting wolves? Can anyone enlighten me as to whether or not you can shoot them, and if so is there a season?

brewski · #9 10-26-2008

i agree 100% with kodiak1 we as hunters need to get the word out to srd and our MLAs that something needs to be done, i am going to write a letter to my MLA asap i suggest you all do the same, we have all been out there, we have seen what is happening, in my area i have seen a steady decrease in the moose pops every year, and i see more and nore wolves every year.

Bushrat · #10 10-26-2008

If you could get hunters to do anything besides rant and rave about what is going on be it wolves or parks or gun laws it would be amazing. Hunters are the most apathetic bunch of people out there. They rant and rave yet they can't seem to get beyond that. Most can't write a letter or pick up the phone or go to a public meeting to support themselves. In the case around here about a hunting area that will be turned into a provincial recreation area where hunting could be part of it if there is enough public support for hunting otherwise it will taken away from us for good if we don't get off our butts and show support. Every hunter I talked to about it has ranted and raved about how we need hunting to continue there, I've passed out feedback sheets at the range, to friends, have had them handed out to customers at stores, been advertised in the paper, hundreds and hundreds of feedback forms have gotten into the hands of hunters who ranted that they will go to meetings and send in the feedback forms etc, etc. this has been going on for months yet officials have received only 22 feedback forms that even mention hunting by the cutoff date.

Your wasting your breath if you think you can get any amount of hunters to do anything but whine. 98% of hunters seem to enjoy watching things circle the drain, do nothing, then spew rants about how they are loosing their rights.

If this is how we hunters are then we deserve what we get.

kodiak1 · #11 10-26-2008

U of A is still going to monitor, study, keep collars on the wolves they have already collared. The SRD pulled the cull due strictly to public pressure.

SRD orginized a committee to oversee this project and I understand Paul Paquet, wolf expert from the U of C sat on this board, so I now know why SRD pulled the plug. That was just one tree hugger and wolf lover and I imagine there was more. I don't know of any from Fish and Game or any one from the Hunting Community to sit on this. So take it from there!!!!

As far as getting any one to write letters or phone, I know I have told many hunters in the Eastern Slopes that this was going to happen and I guess I can only give you the information and beyond that I can't help.

I will say one thing that if we all get together and fight for our right to hunt, we may have a chance, but if we just mope around and complain we will LOOSE.

Schatz · #12 10-26-2008

Wolves are an issue in our province.
No need for them, a pack of wolves kill a deer about every 2 or 3 days.
Took a poke at one this weekend, but he was running full blast up a hill and shot under em.

BrianWiley · #13 10-26-2008

When we started trying to get a wolf cull done about 5 years ago we where told right out by the ministers office at the time that unless there is input from hunters or other parties ie.alberta cattle men then they would not do anything .The squeaky wheel gets the grease hunters don't squeaky .Also the wildlife defenders are better organized and better funded from all of the tax free donations they soliciate every year .Also where are the Fish and Game clubs or organizations that claim they have so much pull or input to the govt doings and game regulations .I already know the answer to that question and that is why I no longer support them .
I hunted the 416 zone in 98 there was 70 resident tags that year .If they pull any more they will close that area for hunting ,and we all know you never get it back ,at least Banff Parks will have their "No HUNTING " buffer zone that nobody knows anything about .
I 'll be very suprised if t his goes any futher than this post because we have posted on here befor about the problems ,so there shouldn't be any surprises here .

kodiak1 · #14 10-26-2008

Well here we go again, I just read in the Canmore Outlook newspaper that all National Parks in Canada want a 50 km. buffer zone to protect the predators.

Hey Brian just think with only 35 elk draws in W.M.U.'s 416,418, 420 which all border Banff National Park they pretty well have there buffer zone.

Talking about Defenders of Wildlife group. It is funny to see that this group only represents and defends the predator, but if there is no prey, then there soon will be NO predator!!!!

Traps · #15 10-26-2008

The winters of 06/07 have been harder than normal, the years before the winters of 06/07 were mild and this resulted in a very good survival rate amongst ungulates. With harder winters and late snowpacks wolves took advantage and this caused a higher survival rate amongst wolves. What your seeing now is a large population of wolves and a small population of ungulates. There is no need to cull wolves as it will happen on its own, to cull is a waste of tax payers money.

SRD implements a system in which hunters can enjoy a quality hunt and this happens with the draw system. Its game management done to preserve hunting quality, and its not foolproof. SRD uses models and management techniques and mother nature takes care of the rest. Many hunters take the viewpoint that having a quality hunt whether it be seeing a lot of game or having a good chance at a trophy is their intrinsic right and when this is threatened we get threads like this popping up. I wouldn't waste my time lobbying anything on this, SRD is doing the right thing by pulling the plug.

duffy4 · #16 10-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traps

The winters of 06/07 have been harder than normal, the years before the winters of 06/07 were mild and this resulted in a very good survival rate amongst ungulates. With harder winters and late snowpacks wolves took advantage and this caused a higher survival rate amongst wolves. What your seeing now is a large population of wolves and a small population of ungulates. There is no need to cull wolves as it will happen on its own, to cull is a waste of tax payers money.

SRD implements a system in which hunters can enjoy a quality hunt and this happens with the draw system. Its game management done to preserve hunting quality, and its not foolproof. SRD uses models and management techniques and mother nature takes care of the rest. Many hunters take the viewpoint that having a quality hunt whether it be seeing a lot of game or having a good chance at a trophy is their intrinsic right and when this is threatened we get threads like this popping up. I wouldn't waste my time lobbying anything on this, SRD is doing the right thing by pulling the plug.

We shouldn't be talking about "wolves and ungulates" The ungulate part of the equasion is made up of elk, moose and white-tail deer mainly. And this is what has happened that may or may not be "natural"

All of the industrial disturbance in our west country has made the habitat better for white-tail deer and their population has exploded. The habitat has changed to benifit wolves ability to move and hunt better. So a pack of wolves can hunt for a moose or elk which are getting less abundant. But if they cannot get a moose or elk, the pack will not suffer as they will be able to get a white-tail or two (fast food) to keep them going. Perhaps they will get a moose or elk next time.

If we "let nature take its course" we may end up with white-tails and wolves in the west country and some mule deer and a very few elk, moose and caribou.

Robin in Rocky

kodiak1 · #17 10-27-2008

In the west counry since wolf recolonized they have exploded in numbers and pack sizes.Between Banff, Lake Louise all the way to Ya Ha Tinda Ranch and on to West of Rocky Mountain House there is known to be more than 15 packs of wolves and the numbers of wolves equals more than 200.

Just think each wolf eats 15 Big game animals per year. You do the math.

I think that it is 3000 Big game animals to feed those big dogs!!!!

What a disaster

Ice Fishing Maniac · #18 10-27-2008

I guess as mentioned it will be up to hunters and trappers in that area to bring numbers down. As for us, we seen and got only 1 bull moose on our moose hunting trip between 6 guys with tags. Wolves were bad in our area this year. HAd a bull barking at me a few times in the evening and morning but then the wolves lit it up. Anyhow, two of my buddies went out for a day trip on saturday-wind/snow and all- and seen a pack of wolves- and they got one - a nice brown one I was told. They seen a huge silver/white one but it slipped away. Biggest wolve my hunting buddy has ever seen, and we have seen quite a few over the years.

A couple of us are planning on a couple day trips this week to try and get another bull or 2 for our group- our if anything now-Wolves.

gube · #19 10-27-2008

I've posted on here a few times with stats of the arial surveys and they just seem to die off. Since the fall of the fur industry, it has taken about 20 years for the wolves to take a stong hold in the eastern slopes. Until the 80's, the wolf population was kept in check due to high fur prices and a balance was maintained. That balance is long gone and the wolf population has exploded. Before mans intervention, this caused high levels of population fluctuations on both sides. Trapping and the high fur prices kept this in check. With man using the same landscapes for raising cattle and crops, the wolf now has another food source of the plentifull deer, and when that runs low, they will turn to cattle, sheep, etc. The large ungulates will never have a chance to re-bound. It will take a toll on the bears and cougers as well. Once food sources have been removed, they will travel until they find another available food source, which will be cattle, family pets, and sorry to say, people. Emotions are over riding scientific facts and in the end, our ungulate population will be decimated. If and when our Govt intervenes, it will take decades to bring our large ungulates back to what once was.

BrianWiley · #20 10-27-2008

Well said gube.And for the few that always pipe up about NATURE TAKIN IT's COURSE .That argrument died the day man set foot out here.The people that apparently are making the descions are simply taking the easy way out .People are easier to control than the animals ,so when the elk numbers tank they simply cut tags or scrap the season .Its as bout as good a job as a weatherman where you can be wrong or bugger the whole thing up and still keep your job. and as long as we need another "study" they get more funding and get one more step closer to retirement and handing their mess off to someone else.

theflyguy · #21 10-28-2008

I have been hunting the YaHa Tinda ranch for quite a few years. There is no question that the elk herds have been diminishing each year. 15 years ago they had an "any bull" season and actually had a cow season. Wintering herds used to number in the thousands, now in the hundreds. For years I watched the amount of tags drop and drop. Six or seven years ago I contacted the local wildlife biologist and he was very careful not to say the problem was with predators although he did fess up to the population numbers going down and down. 2 years ago I finally got drawn and hunted 11 days to finally geta 6 x 4 bull. Last year my hunting buddy and myself hunted another 11 days and he never did see shootable elk. Throughout those 2 years we bought tags, spent money on rooms at Mountain Aire Lodge, bought gas in Sundre, bought groceries in Sundre etc. etc. In all that time we spent a lot of cash in the local economy. I wonder how much more spin-off revenues goes into the Alberta economy from hunters as opposed to the wolf lovers. We ALL have to get off our collective butts and DO SOMETHING!! It doesn't take much effort to do a lookup on google for the email address of the Minister of SRD and the Premier. Wite them a letter voicing your displeasure and let them know about how this is affecting Ma and Pa stores in rural Alberta if they continue to do nothing to bring the predator populations under control. The wolf lovers are not afraid to write and look what it has gotten them. By doing nothing we remain unheard. There are tens of thousands of hunters in Alberta. I think that sentence in itself might be a problem to most as they think someone else will do the writing..... Don't wait... get writing....

Maybe the Fish and Game associations might look at giving a dollar off their membership fees for every member who can prove they have written a letter to the Minister and the Premier..... now there's a thought

We also have to be aware that this problem does not just exist in 416,417 etc. etc. I hunt a lot in the Porcupine Hills area and this year 2 of the landowners on whose property I hunt both asked me to shoot any wolf on sight. They are experiencing losses to cattle down there.

coldredneck · #22 10-28-2008

Being from Alberta myself , it seems to me that wolves are open season for any resident during any open big game season. If every hunter out there spent a little time actually hunting wolves and killing just one I would think this would start to make a difference in the packs. If you happen to have a pack of 30 or so wolves running around your area , grab a couple buddies and go get a few pelts! They look great on the wall !! Asking the government to take care of the problem is a waste of time. There's always money problems and dont forget the influence of the anti hunting groups.
Its open season go get a few!!

Swamp_Donkey · #23 10-28-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by theflyguy

I have been hunting the YaHa Tinda ranch for quite a few years. There is no question that the elk herds have been diminishing each year. 15 years ago they had an "any bull" season and actually had a cow season. Wintering herds used to number in the thousands, now in the hundreds. For years I watched the amount of tags drop and drop. Six or seven years ago I contacted the local wildlife biologist and he was very careful not to say the problem was with predators although he did fess up to the population numbers going down and down. 2 years ago I finally got drawn and hunted 11 days to finally geta 6 x 4 bull. Last year my hunting buddy and myself hunted another 11 days and he never did see shootable elk. Throughout those 2 years we bought tags, spent money on rooms at Mountain Aire Lodge, bought gas in Sundre, bought groceries in Sundre etc. etc. In all that time we spent a lot of cash in the local economy. I wonder how much more spin-off revenues goes into the Alberta economy from hunters as opposed to the wolf lovers. We ALL have to get off our collective butts and DO SOMETHING!! It doesn't take much effort to do a lookup on google for the email address of the Minister of SRD and the Premier. Wite them a letter voicing your displeasure and let them know about how this is affecting Ma and Pa stores in rural Alberta if they continue to do nothing to bring the predator populations under control. The wolf lovers are not afraid to write and look what it has gotten them. By doing nothing we remain unheard. There are tens of thousands of hunters in Alberta. I think that sentence in itself might be a problem to most as they think someone else will do the writing..... Don't wait... get writing....

Maybe the Fish and Game associations might look at giving a dollar off their membership fees for every member who can prove they have written a letter to the Minister and the Premier..... now there's a thought

We also have to be aware that this problem does not just exist in 416,417 etc. etc. I hunt a lot in the Porcupine Hills area and this year 2 of the landowners on whose property I hunt both asked me to shoot any wolf on sight. They are experiencing losses to cattle down there.

Contact info here

15 Animals per wolf? I hope to save 30-45 this weekend, but easier typed than done

MountainTi · #24 10-28-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushrat

If you could get hunters to do anything besides rant and rave about what is going on be it wolves or parks or gun laws it would be amazing. Hunters are the most apathetic bunch of people out there. They rant and rave yet they can't seem to get beyond that. Most can't write a letter or pick up the phone or go to a public meeting to support themselves. In the case around here about a hunting area that will be turned into a provincial recreation area where hunting could be part of it if there is enough public support for hunting otherwise it will taken away from us for good if we don't get off our butts and show support. Every hunter I talked to about it has ranted and raved about how we need hunting to continue there, I've passed out feedback sheets at the range, to friends, have had them handed out to customers at stores, been advertised in the paper, hundreds and hundreds of feedback forms have gotten into the hands of hunters who ranted that they will go to meetings and send in the feedback forms etc, etc. this has been going on for months yet officials have received only 22 feedback forms that even mention hunting by the cutoff date.

Your wasting your breath if you think you can get any amount of hunters to do anything but whine. 98% of hunters seem to enjoy watching things circle the drain, do nothing, then spew rants about how they are loosing their rights.

If this is how we hunters are then we deserve what we get.

You are 100 percent right on this, and I have probably been just as guilty as the rest. So........just finished typing and sending my thoughts on the subject to Dr. Ted Morton. Hope more can do the same.

Grizzly Adams · #25 10-28-2008

Science and not emotions should guide wildlife management.

Robin in Rocky[/QUOTE]
Amen to that. I just heard an interview with the scientist, who was proposing this study. It was going to be more of a research project, than a heavy duty kill, to judge the effects of culling wolves. I gather there were some disagreements as to where this study would best be conducted and wether it should be conducted in Caribou range, to judge the effect on the caribou, as well. In light of that, the project was shelved.

Grizz

Jager · #26 10-28-2008

You know all this talk..........I was raised that a bad day in the field is still better than the best day in the office!

All the people that are campaigning against the cull are all speaking together, like many of the members here have said if we all spoke out together.......

Well lets get organized, if anyone wants to go out together 2-5 people and start shooting as soon as the big game season ends I'm game! 3-5 Wolves a month will help next years ungulate populations...........

Elk Hunter 55 · #27 10-31-2008

Hi Guys,

Wolf fur is remarkably warm. The fur is also great for a hoody.

Please no more flames from the HOLY WOLF tree huggers and no more whining that nobody is doing anything about it.

We all have rifles so let's get out there and harvest this abundant resource as it was meant to be used.

Cheers,
Elk Hunter

The Bit Runner. · #28 11-01-2008

My buddy was driving west of rocky the other day and he said he seen 18 wolves in a pack.He has been driving out there,ram falls,north fork,sunchild ect for the last 30 years and he said that he has seen a HUGE increase in wolves every year.He gets a couple every year.I cant help but think how many elk 18 wolves will kill in a year.Like someone said earlier we as hunters have to start killing these things every time we get a chance.I live by gull lake alberta and my buddy shot one close to the lake,a big black one right full of red meat.Another 5 years and we will see them everywhere.I cant believe they have already moved this far east.

sparky1010 · #29 11-02-2008

Yeah i was out opening day in 324 missed a shot at 4 wolves chasing a deer across a cutline. Had 12 of them come out where i was elk hunting last year in 326.