Black Rifles. The Poll! Round three.

Putting this thread up for Tree guy.

1. You should be able to hunt with them
2. Don't change anything
3. Should be heavily controlled
4. THey should be banned

Have at er'

Is this the kind of "black rifle" or "assalt rifle" you are talking about???

It was designed and made to shoot people with and has been used for that purpose for many years in many many countries.

However it has taken on a new job. It has been used to hunt game and provide food for people for many years and in many countries. The gun is not evil. The person using it could be. I think we have been trying to convince the "anti-gun" people of this fact for a long time.

So why are we even having this discussion on this board?????

Robin

The questions don't really make much sense. You can hunt with some of them presently. They are controlled on an individual basis. I think that was the point all along...there is no blanket policy on black guns. You have guns with identical looks and capabilities yet some are classified as restricted and some are not. My question all along has been where do you draw the line. Which further rifles do you let them take away. When will those that have a distain for black rifles stand up and say enough is enough. I know for me that time is now. Maybe for others it won't happen until it starts to affect them personally. That's what I find sad!!!!

Hear we go again,, its just going to start all over again...

I'm not allowed to post some facts walleyes and ask a couple questions to try and clarify this poll????

I guess the other question that really begs asking here is what is a black gun?? I know many have said Assault style weapons but where is that line drawn if this is all about public perception. Some of the public may feel my Benelli looks menacing. We aren't going to get anything back but we sure can raise a stink when they start trying to take more away.

That's the problem folks....you may all have it in your mind where the line is between an AR15 and a Benelli pump but the average citizen doesn't and that's why public perception is a dangeous way to deal with any thing. Giving them the Mini14 won't mean a damn thing. Now is the time to say no more!

My comment wasn't directed at you sheep, it was directed at the topic,, I just feel we are going to sit here and spin our wheels again...

The other post did degrade to a point where I didn't want to participate any more but I think there are still some things that need to be said or were lost in that other thread. I think it's good to keep talking about it.

Yes you are right sheep..
Well lets start it off again,, you stated that most of the public cannot tell the difference between a Benneli or a AR rifle and I agree with you but maybe that is where we have to start with the education part and I mean positive education, hey if they can put on advertisements and the such maybe we should too explaining the difference and showing them what specific guns are designed for..
And here is just a question but why are they called AR rifles the A stands for assault what is it people want to go and assault,, I just don't get it.. Why do people feel the need to own something designed for assaulting something ?? Just because it was made doesn't mean you have to own it.. Leave it in the hands of the people it was designed for. Like our military and peace officers...

Black guns really isn't the term you want to use. My A-bolt has a black composite stock. We are talking about assault rifle replicas in semi-auto (I don't think anyone here is discussing using fully auto hunting).

I don't like assualt rifle replicas. I think SOME (NOTE: NOT ALL) people buy them for the "macho" value. Not a healthy reason to buy a gun I think. But I ALSO think they are no more harmful than any semi auto hunting rifle and should be legal.

As for their use in hunting, I'd only ban them if they were so much more efficient that they basically took the sport out of hunting, or so inefficient that they wounded more game than they killed. I don't think they presently fall into either category, so if someone wants to hunt with them, I say go ahead. I do think the caliber needs to match the game, like any other gun, so NO ELK hunting with the 223

Everyone keeps say "you know the type of rifles we are talking about"

Well I don't.....where is the line?????? If no one can give a definition then how can we educate the public??????

Give me a definition of what you mean and I want more than assault style rifle. That means absolutely nothing. What about the rifle Duffy posted above? What makes one an assualt style rifle and not the other. I really want to know.

Kanon...Tree????????

I agree that education is important walleyes but here's a question for you. How do we educate the public in the differences between a Mini 14 and a Browning BAR ShortTrac Stalker. Both are black, both are semi auto, both are capable of accuratly delivering a suitable projectile in a hunting situation. How do you educate the public on that one?? Truthfully I don't see a difference so other than the Mini 14 looking more menacing, what do you educate the public on???? That's why I keep asking where you draw the line?? Education is a double edged sword my friend. How can you educate someone that the Mini 14 or AR15 needs to be banned but not the BAR when they are in essence the same gun. I'm interested how you'd present that one. What is the education process?? If guns look scary they should be banned but if they don't they shouldn't be??

These are real questions here. Not one person on this site yet has been able to tell me how they'd educate the public on where they'd draw the line between those scary and non scary guns. There is no line. If you ban one semi auto you need to ban them all and I for one don't want to see that happen.

Sheep, given we are talking about public perception, for the purpose of our conversation, I'd say an assault rifle is anything the majority of the public thinks is an assault rifle. I know that's unsatisfying. But I'd say it's black, has a pistol grip, some sort of long magazine on the bottom, looks "military" to the untrained eye.

Wanna add to the confusion? LOL I'd say the rifle looks scarier to the public if the guy holding it is wearing camo fatigues than if he is wearing his blaze upland game vest.

Sheep perhaps a way to educate the general public is to see these types of rifles actually being used in Hunting shows and magazines. I think that is the way to keeping access open to these military looking guns. Get respectable people to use them in respectable ways and BAM you have respectable guns.

Jamie

I know what you are saying Ok but lots of rifles have pistol grips and long magazines are already prohibited in Canada. Everyone keeps talking about public perception but how do we know what the public perceives???? I truthfully think the public thinks all guns are scary but that's just my opinion. There are a lot of people speaking on behalf of the public here but I've seen nothing to support what they are saying. Why are we even thinking about giving up more to a group that has brought no pressure on this particular subject. More gun control and less guns...now that I've heard from the public but I have never heard them say...ban some of the scary looking guns and we'll leave you nice gun owners alone. You are fooling yourselves if that's what you think.

Sadly Jamie...Joe public doesn't watch hunting programs or read hunting/shooting magazines and I can't see the mainstream press picking this up. I hunted bears in Russia with an AK47 and have shot many AR15 style rifles in the U.S. and have talked lots about it in print but I sadly doubt that it will do much to educate Joe public. Stopping gun owners from speaking out against legal hunting guns....now that would help.

Sheep. It's all about preception. In the news we have military guys holding Military guns. Therfore the public thinks the only ones who should have these military guns are Military. Get some pic on the nightly news showing hunters with military style guns and life will start to get better. It all has to start some where.

Jamie

Totally agreed Jamie but how do you do that???? Not like the mainstream media is anxious to show hunting.

Sheep. Its shown on the news. Perhaps not near enough but at least its there. I would guess you will see more of the Jumbo thing show up on one of the major news stations eventually. Especially if they have a slow news week.
In order to make this work you have to showcase these rifles at every chance. It will take time, but it will work. For the most part the public are just sheep and they listen to whatever the talking heads on TV tell them.
Just a few thoughts anyhow

Jamie

Like I said James...totally agree with you but after beating my head on that mainsteam media wall for nearly 20 years, my head is getting sore. Beat away if you like though, I'd support you. You can bet the mainstream media will certainly pick up a negative story in a hurry though.

Hear we go again,, its just going to start all over again...

Its going to start all over again becasue the debate was never finished. Unfortunately, we have a mod or two here that like to play God and tell the rest of us when a debate is over.

Someboby please, PLEASE get rid of lisundance as a mod. I am sure he is a wonderful person and ethical hunter, but he has no business being a mod on this board.

yeah, you are right. Here is what lilsundance said on the "The Black Gun Three" chain:

I think Osterb posted a pretty good poll there. Check it out and see what you think.

Yup, the guy is really a biased, closed-minded menace wanting to shut down all discussion, for sure. :lol

"Yup, the guy is really a biased, closed-minded menace wanting to shut down all discussion, for sure. "

I dont think so he is just telling you like it is and alot of you dont like it .Its good that some that come on this board dont sugar Coat nothing Good for you Oster .

Nationwide, it was SARCASM.... I thought he was fine too.

Sheep with all do respect and I do mean that,, I do have respect for anyone that has the balls to leave main stream work and make a living out of something we all love and enjoy like the great outdoors. It has to take a lot of nerve and perseverance man and good luck. But please don't make you're self out to be so naive as to sit here and tell me you honestly can't see the difference between a AR rifle and a sporting rifle o.k. because I know you aren't that blind. Now I know you are in the business and need you're sponsors and you have seen what speaking you're true feelings can do for you as in he case of Jim Zumbo,, so I'm sorry but I can not sit here and have an honest debate with you on this matter because no matter what you will have a biased opinion. And that is fine I do understand and please don't take this offensive it's just the way it is...

I ask again Walleyes...where is the line then....what rifle seperates other semi autos from sporting rifles??? And I ask the question with all due respect but I would like an answer. What rifles are you happy to give up to the antis and which ones do you want to keep???? There has to be a line if you are willing to give up some. It seems a pretty simple question but no one can answer it. Why is that??

Wanna see where a ton of these 'black rifles' are common as the day is long?

predatormasters.com

The predator callers and varmint hunters are putting them to great use. Wish we had the same access to the same guns.

If you consider calling coyotes (a very fast growing sport) then you can see just how perfectly taylored these 'black guns' might be for that application. Your talking small, fast critters that often come in multiples (most i've had come in on me is 5....with a few 3's and many pairs).

I relegate myself to usually just scoring one at a time so i concentrate hardest on the first one but i bet i could pick off a few doubles with a tool more suited to that type of action. Its not that i don't try for the doubles as i have emptied my bolt guns twice on certain stands in the open...and often get more than one shot off...hate it when they run left to right...can't seem to get the leads right. Maybe the auto-loader won't help me that much but i bet there a few instances a year where it would make all the difference. I know i'd sure like access to more choices on moa capable semi-auto's.

Just another tool is all.

B

Again here we go..
No one and I mean no one on this site has said a rifle just because it is black is offensive,, what a few of us are trying to say is there are certain styles and we all know which ones they are,, as in the AR style the Uzi style the BMG style rifle are specific designed rifles, not for hunting,, and let me ask you this,, if you don't know the difference?? why are we even having this conversation"?? why can you all pick out what style we are talking about and yet play dumb in the end.. I know why because we all know there is a difference that's why!!!!!!!

Again,, and hear me out,, again we say,, did you all hear!!!! again we say,, hey !!! did you hear what I am saying,, we should all be aloud to own these guns,, "if" we have proven our selves worthy of owning them ,, take them out to the local range and do what we all know they were DESIGNED to do,,(and if you want as we all see them all doing in the promos in the magazines,, shoot at human targets),,, shoot all day long if that is what you like...

But please don't ever confuse an outdoors man with a shooter !!!! because boys there is no reason for an outdoors man to own one of these guns,, I have never seen a true woodsman pack one and I never will.. Call you're self what you will,, sell you're self as what you will,, but don't confuse the two,, we are a different species.. Outdoorsman harvest shooters shoot,, (what ever they can).

I am a woodsman not a shooter.........

Like I said...no one can answer my question.......but I do take offense to you saying I'm not a true outdoorsman. But I guess by your definition I'm not. I don't harvest game...I shoot and kill it. Farmers harvest crops!

The BMG-style rifle??? So now bolt actions are offensive?? You do realize the BMG is a calibre...right?

I know where I'm willing to draw the line...why can't you???? I'll guarantee I know more about these rifles than you walleyes and I'll guarantee I've shot more and AR style rifles are indeed fine rifles for many hunting applications.

BTW...woodsmen use axes and with an attitude like yours, that's all we may be left with soon!

But not to let you derail this important topic walleyes...where do you draw the line. What semis are acceptable and which ones aren't??? Which bolt actions are acceptable and which ones aren't? I have my opinion, I'd like to hear yours. And please, it's a simple question so a simple answer would be nice.

Never implied anything different walleyes.