Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-27-2015, 07:57 AM
avb3 avb3 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 7,861
Default APOS once again refuses to sanction illegal acts

President of Alberta outfitters’ group survives ouster bid after unlawful killing of black bear
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/touch...147/story.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:03 AM
pikergolf's Avatar
pikergolf pikergolf is online now
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371
Default

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Presi...147/story.html

Sad state of affairs, but it is who they are.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”

Thomas Sowell
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:05 AM
Lefty-Canuck's Avatar
Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,780
Default

I respect the members who tried to get him out....no respect for the man who is running the show though, or those who voted in favor of keeping him.

LC
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:06 AM
avb3 avb3 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 7,861
Default

It appears unless an American client is involved, no outfitter ever gets sanctioned for any illegal activity they're involved in.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:07 AM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,185
Default

Looks like there is 33 good outfitters and 51 that support this crap. What a disgrace.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:22 AM
coppercarbide's Avatar
coppercarbide coppercarbide is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Morinville
Posts: 630
Default

Wow, reading about the circumstances of the issue is brutal.

He was guiding a woman, who shot a bear.
He saw a second bear, shot it, and then bought a license in the name of the woman's husband, so he could have a bear.


I wouldn't accept that garbage from ANYONE in APOS, nevermind the chief.


I usually try and tread lightly around APOS topics. Outfitting, to me, brings money into the province, keeps some solid men and women employed in outdoor professions, and sells Alberta as a destination.

However, this is NOT a good way to maintain social license.

When issues come up about quota or other hunter/outfitter issues, I will definitely be making my voice heard from now on. Get these $%^%$ clowns out.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:25 AM
35 whelen 35 whelen is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: GRAND PRAIRIE
Posts: 5,720
Default

I have been a apos member since day one ,I think the gov should revamp this whole **** show called APOS.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:28 AM
Bushrat's Avatar
Bushrat Bushrat is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride View Post
Looks like there is 33 good outfitters and 51 that support this crap. What a disgrace.
Sad that the majority of outfitters condone this sort of activity.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:57 AM
Kanonfodder Kanonfodder is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 4,428
Default APOS Prez Convicted of Wildlife Offences

Story Tools
Font size:

Photo visibility:

Hide All
Show All


President of Alberta outfitters’ group survives ouster bid after unlawful killing of black bear


By David Howell, Edmonton JournalAugust 27, 2015 6:24 AM



Glenn Brown, president of the Alberta Professional Outfitters Society, survived an internal bid to have him ousted after questions surfaced about his role in the unlawful killing of a black bear.
Photograph by: Jeff McIntosh, The Canadian Press, file

EDMONTON - The president of the Alberta Professional Outfitters Society survived an internal bid to have him ousted after questions surfaced about his role in the unlawful killing of a black bear.

Months later, some society members remain upset that Glenn Brown is still president.

“Lots of people are so disgusted with the whole thing that we want out,” said Chris Franke, an outfitter and guide based in Hinton who helped the effort to remove Brown.

Brown’s presidency was challenged June 20 at the society’s annual general meeting in Nisku. Brown, 55, of Three Hills, faced a motion to “immediately remove” him. It was defeated 33-51.

Brown and Blue Bronna Holdings Ltd., a company he owns with his wife, had each been charged under the Wildlife Act with providing false or misleading information. Each charge carried a maximum possible fine of $50,000.

The charge against Brown was withdrawn in May 2013, one month after Blue Bronna was convicted and paid a $400 fine.

The case dated back to October 2010, according to a wildlife officer’s enforcement action report.

Brown was providing outfitting and guiding services to a Mississippi woman. She shot and killed a black bear near Blairmore but another bear was in the same location.

The report said Brown shot the second bear and later bought a hunting licence in the name of a Mississippi man. The man was in Alberta with Brown’s client but had not been part of the hunt.

The report said Brown used the tag for the second bear, an “unlawful” act. Hunters must hold a valid licence while hunting and can only tag wildlife they kill themselves.

The report said Brown gave a statement in which he said the woman wanted to keep the second bear. He said he tagged it “to expedite the export process to Mississippi.”

Brown had both bears taken to a Calgary taxidermist, the report said. On July 4, 2012, the taxidermist applied for an Alberta export permit using licence numbers Brown had provided. July 4, 2012 is listed as the date of the offence.

Brown addressed the issue at the APOS meeting in Nisku. The Journal obtained a recording of the meeting.

Brown told the meeting that after his client shot the first bear, “the other one wouldn’t go away.” He said he decided to shoot it “because I had a tag in my backpack.”

He said he considered having his client fire him before he killed the second bear because it’s illegal to hunt while guiding. But he decided to shoot the second bear.

“At the end of the day, it’s the wrong thing,” he told the meeting. “There’s wrong and there’s right and you don’t get to shoot a bear when you’re guiding.”

Brown said he talked to Fish and Wildlife and agreed to take a penalty for hunting while guiding. But instead he found himself charged with making a false statement. “I finally agreed to it because for $400 it just wasn’t worth anything,” he told the meeting.

Blue Bronna also paid a $2,000 fine in 2014 for trespassing. Brown had been guiding two American hunters near Red Deer. One killed a white-tailed deer. Brown didn’t have permission to be on the land.

Brown was elected APOS president in 2012 and re-elected in 2014. For months leading up to the annual meeting, some members were trying to find out if he had disclosed the convictions when he sought to renew his presidency.

Kelly Semple, an APOS vice-president, told the Nisku meeting the board had looked into it.

“In the process, that was identified as a problem,” Semple said. “Glenn thought he had disclosed it. We had no evidence that he did or he didn’t.”

The board ruled Brown had violated the society’s code of conduct and issued a letter of censure, Semple said.

In an interview, Brown suggested he has been a target for disgruntled APOS members who have other issues with the organization.

“There are people that want to cause problems, who feel ‘OK, we can move things by slamming somebody,’ that kind of thing.” he said. “That doesn’t help us a bit.”

dhowell@edmontonjournal.com

twitter.com/HowellEJ

-----

WHAT IS APOS?

The Alberta Professional Outfitters Society is responsible for managing the outfitting industry in Alberta on behalf of the provincial government.

More than 400 member outfitter-guides and about 1,500 guides are registered through the society. About 80 per cent of their clients come from the United States.

APOS issues outfitter-guide permits, collects fees from members, and manages the allocation of big-game and bird-game resources.

The society holds outfitter-guides to ethical standards and codes of conduct, and reviews incidents in which charges are laid under the Wildlife Act.

A recent report put the outfitting industry’s economic impact in Alberta at $105 million per year.
© Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal
__________________
Don't blame me, I'm just a volunteer
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:02 AM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,185
Default

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=263740
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:03 AM
pikergolf's Avatar
pikergolf pikergolf is online now
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
Sad that the majority of outfitters condone this sort of activity.
Very telling, makes a guy wonder what they are dabbling in and want their back covered for. And no not all of them, but I'd bet the majority, no other way to explain what's going on. Browns outfit was also charged with trespassing, he was the guide on that so called hunt.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”

Thomas Sowell
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:08 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
Default

Well you don't hire an honest man to lead the hells angels do you?

If you want to run a successful criminal organization you have to make sure the guy running it is a seasoned vet.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:08 AM
Okotokian's Avatar
Okotokian Okotokian is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
Default

Having this fellow run APOS is good for the members. That way they know they will be protected and never get kicked out of the organization for anything they might do. I can absolutely see why they voted not to boot him.

Also shows to go ya that the government has absolutely no interest in watching what APOS does or regulating it.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:13 AM
catnthehat's Avatar
catnthehat catnthehat is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,585
Default

What a train load of Bull Hooey!!
Totally disgusted with that group of so-called sportsmen before, don't even know WHAT to think of them now.
I wonder if our wonderful new Government is going to do anything about this bunch.
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:20 AM
Bolete Bolete is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 747
Default

Way to show leadership.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:27 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,144
Default

Over half of the members support having an outfitter whose company was convicted of poaching, leading their organization.This is exactly why APOS needs to be disbanded.

Quote:
Having this fellow run APOS is good for the members. That way they know they will be protected and never get kicked out of the organization for anything they might do. I can absolutely see why they voted not to boot him.

Also shows to go ya that the government has absolutely no interest in watching what APOS does or regulating it.
I have to agree on both counts. The government needs to deal with this, but obviously they have no interest in doing so. It's almost like someone in ESRD was benefiting by allowing APOS to do as they please.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.

Last edited by elkhunter11; 08-27-2015 at 09:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:29 AM
CaberTosser's Avatar
CaberTosser CaberTosser is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 19,420
Default

Well clearly he's part of the problem with APOS; if someone can egregiously violate a few laws and then shrug it off with little more than a "Meh, it wasn't that bad", and feel he's still qualified to lead such an organization then the organization should be disbanded or at least stripped of any government affiliation. The fox is watching the henhouse with a confessed twit like that at the helm. If he survived a leadership vote it also shows the morality of those who voted in his favor, probably they figure by keeping a liar & cheat in position it will help their cases when they inevitably face similar charges. You know, the type of charges that APOS takes really seriously where they punish their members heavily for violating. Oh wait, has that ever even happened?? Once, ever?


“There are people that want to cause problems, who feel ‘OK, we can move things by slamming somebody,’ that kind of thing.” he said. “That doesn’t help us a bit.”. Hey genius, the people causing problems are doing things like trespassing, hunting while guiding and buying tags after the animal has already been killed. Maybe throw in falsifying documents for export paperwork too. Maybe the "That doesn't help us a bit" is taken literally in that it doesn't help them to keep lying and cheating and being held unaccountable, all while retaining an officially sanctioned title.

He said he considered having his client fire him before he killed the second bear because it’s illegal to hunt while guiding. But he decided to shoot the second bear.. Clearly he knew better, and he did it anyways; how he feels that he is qualified to lead when he pulls stunts like this is clearly the result of a delusion of grandeur.
__________________
"The trouble with people idiot-proofing things, is the resulting evolution of the idiot." Me

Last edited by CaberTosser; 08-27-2015 at 09:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:31 AM
trapperdodge trapperdodge is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 546
Default

I'm no fan of apos. In the PC gov't apos had way too much influence. They do not act in the interest of the resident hunter. They are only interested in catering to hunters who are willing to pay.

The resource they use is a public resource. The fish and game the pursue belong to the residents of Alberta, not to apos.

In my opinion apos should be on the very bottom of the priority list. It's the residents who keep the government in tax money, not a handful of outfitters who 'bring in' outside money. For the large majority their operations are running hand to mouth.

I hope the change in government brings in a new style of thinking to manage the resource in AB. Maybe we don't need as many non-resident hunters and maybe the residents should get some consideration. Saskatchewan severely limits non-resident hunting. It's the residents they cater to - the people who really pay the taxes.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:37 AM
Okotokian's Avatar
Okotokian Okotokian is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
Default

nevermind. edited
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:41 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,144
Default

Quote:
He said he considered having his client fire him before he killed the second bear because it’s illegal to hunt while guiding. But he decided to shoot the second bear..
Given the situation, a $400 fine was a joke, just like he is a joke of an outfitter and leader of APOS. It is beyond me how anyone but poachers can support this person, or the organization that he is representing.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:45 AM
Okotokian's Avatar
Okotokian Okotokian is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
Default

What is the purpose of APOS? What is it SUPPOSED to do?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:46 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride View Post
Looks like there is 33 good outfitters and 51 that support this crap. What a disgrace.

33 honest outfitters, and 51 that support poaching.

Quote:
I'm no fan of apos. In the PC gov't apos had way too much influence. They do not act in the interest of the resident hunter. They are only interested in catering to hunters who are willing to pay.
Perhaps the influence was paid for? With an organization this crooked, I wouldn't be surprised. Now what was on those papers that were shredded?
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:49 AM
creeky creeky is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,324
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Given the situation, a $400 fine was a joke, just like he is a joke of an outfitter and leader of APOS. It is beyond me how anyone but poachers can support this person, or the organization that he is representing.

33 out of 84 voted to out him, they're not all corrupt
__________________
#WISHING YOU A HAPPY WHATEVER DOESN'T OFFEND YOU


#I Am An Outdoorsman And I Approve This Message


#creativity can't wait for technology
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:49 AM
avb3 avb3 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 7,861
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
What is the purpose of APOS? What is it SUPPOSED to do?
It was set up to be a self-regulating body of Outfitters just in the same way as lawyers, accountants, doctors and dentists are.

Originally it was set up having a disciplinary board that was tasked with sanctioning Outfitters for various illegal or unethical acts..

That transitioned into an attitude of not having double jeopardy if they are charged by the government and convicted, and then further transitioned into only acting if a client complaint.

It cannot be determined at this point whether that display board even still exists.

Let's not forget this is a so-called professional body which refused to pull the outfitter license for the multiple convicted Lloyd McMahon and Great White Holdings.

If they won't sanction a criminal like that, what expectation is for them to sanction anyone else.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:49 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
What is the purpose of APOS? What is it SUPPOSED to do?
It's a union that protects poachers, a gang if you will.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:49 AM
Purple Farmer Purple Farmer is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,382
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
Well you don't hire an honest man to lead the hells angels do you?

If you want to run a successful criminal organization you have to make sure the guy running it is a seasoned vet.
And unfortunately all hunters end up tarred with the same brush.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:52 AM
Bushrat's Avatar
Bushrat Bushrat is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
What is the purpose of APOS? What is it SUPPOSED to do?
It's supposed to regulate and sanction outfitters to follow quality of service and ethics guidelines. Sort of a a BBB for outfitters..
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:55 AM
pikergolf's Avatar
pikergolf pikergolf is online now
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371
Default

I sent an email to Minister Shannon Phillips and asked her nicely to look into APOS.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”

Thomas Sowell
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:59 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by creeky View Post
33 out of 84 voted to out him, they're not all corrupt
Not every one, just a substantial majority.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-27-2015, 10:00 AM
avb3 avb3 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 7,861
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikergolf View Post
I sent an email to Minister Shannon Phillips and asked her nicely to look into APOS.
She'll need more than one letter, & a follow-up phone call is always effective.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.