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Old 07-05-2016, 11:01 AM
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Default Walleye tag system is working on pigeon

I remember when the tag system was introduced on pigeon lake and the Bulk of the feed back was it's not enough and open it up to one or two fish per angler to thin the skinny / starving herds of walleye and allow more food for the ones left, also leave some room for the pike numbers to improve. I can say the walleye are looking great! Nothing like they did a few years ago! Sylvan should introduce the same system, hopfully gull lake too will be able to in a few years but that's a tough one.
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:14 AM
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Good to here!
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:32 AM
PerchBuster PerchBuster is offline
 
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Ok yes but how are the rest of the species doing in there? Pike or Perch make a comeback yet? Any trophy class Walleye or are they all still 2 to 3 lbs on average? Haven't seen any 8 or 9 pounders caught there in a number of years. 10 or 12 years ago they were fairly common and easy to catch one like that, not now. The Walleye may look nice and healthy again, debatable if the lake as whole is or not I think.
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:51 AM
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Average is around 4 lbs. I caught one just over 5lbs. This was about 3 weeks ago over 2 days/5 hours of fishing.
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Old 07-05-2016, 01:24 PM
lromanchuk lromanchuk is offline
 
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Walleye are improving, but the other species are getting hammered. The tag system works for that species but throws off the balance for the rest of the lake.
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Old 07-05-2016, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by lromanchuk View Post
Walleye are improving, but the other species are getting hammered. The tag system works for that species but throws off the balance for the rest of the lake.
Doesn't the tag system take some of the pressure off other species?
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Old 07-05-2016, 02:00 PM
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All species of fish should have tags,say a yearly limit of 3x daily so as an example take 9 pike out of any lake and you are done killing pike for the year. Stocked trout tags should cost 1$ a piece to help recoup costs.


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Old 07-05-2016, 02:25 PM
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Doesn't the tag system take some of the pressure off other species?
Not when the lake is overrun with walleye.

A guy definitely can't complain too much about Pigeon these days. There is stupid good walleye fishing and some decent size.

The pike and perch fishing is crap but I don't think that it really matters that much. Leave Pigeon a walleye lake instead of trying to change it and wreck it like they did to Wabamun which had 0 upside to the addition of walleye...
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Old 07-05-2016, 02:29 PM
Bemoredog Bemoredog is offline
 
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Not a terrible idea to go all tags, although I do hate having to lug around tags and remember to tag the fish. Big ticket if you forget. I'd like it if they made the acquisition of tags easier and also the process itself (tags should have needles, just spear it through the fish's tail or fin; much easier to deal with when the bite is hot or you're on a canoe/kayak).

Still. I'd be OK with that system.

Regarding stocked trout: not sure $1 a trout would really make sense in terms of the hassle (but it would definitely reduce fishing pressure because of it). Might as well just up license fees. I'd like to simply see take limits on trout decreased to 2 or 3. Nobody needs 5. And I feel like this just encourages people to take any fish they catch, not just the decent eating size trout.

At the end of the day I'd like to see more education given by the province on angling and I think a license should require taking a course. A course could outline best angling practices and considerations around size when taking fish for eating (i.e., leave the 30 lb laker; it won't taste good and is better suited to breeding; if you want a trophy, then take pictures and measurements and go to a taxidermist for a replica, but put the fish back).

I'm sure a good deal of the damage to our fisheries is caused by individual ignorance. There will always be damage due to disrespectful idiots, and this is why we have enforcement, but if the problem of ignorance can be partially solved with a few program and policy tweaks I don't see any reason not to do that.
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Old 07-05-2016, 02:32 PM
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I don't see how they could make an all tag system financially feasible and also how they could possibly enforce it.
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Old 07-05-2016, 03:47 PM
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I donít think it would be any less enforceable than the walleye tags.

But there are a couple of ways around it. When I go hunt game birds in Saskatchewan I get a full set of tags and a log sheet, my license is linked to the numbered tag set/log sheet. shoot a bird tag it and mark the log sheet

A smart phone app a picture of the tagged fish and itís logged, the upside is the tech can be leveraged for big game reporting as well. Should also be usable as my fishing license.

Or just embed the cost of printing the tags in the license
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Old 07-05-2016, 04:02 PM
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I thought pike in pigeon is 0 limit now? No pressure there. It will take awhile yet before the balance is found and each lake will have special circumstances to achieve balance. Patience. Some friends got back from pigeon 2 weeks ago and each hooked up with some pike.
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Old 07-05-2016, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
I thought pike in pigeon is 0 limit now? No pressure there. It will take awhile yet before the balance is found and each lake will have special circumstances to achieve balance. Patience. Some friends got back from pigeon 2 weeks ago and each hooked up with some pike.
Something I was going to mention as well, agree. It takes time to improve so let's see how pike in particular go with the changes.

I also caught a 5.5 lb walleye last year. Let's see how that goes over the next few years...hoping for a 7.5 lber or better
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Old 07-05-2016, 05:24 PM
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I thought pike in pigeon is 0 limit now? No pressure there. It will take awhile yet before the balance is found and each lake will have special circumstances to achieve balance. Patience. Some friends got back from pigeon 2 weeks ago and each hooked up with some pike.
The old regs were one over 40 in so not like the reg change did much. Most pike being taken out were done illegally anyways.
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Old 07-05-2016, 06:13 PM
Outdoorfanatic Outdoorfanatic is offline
 
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Default less fish? More money?

So am I hearing right that the consensus here is we all should be allowed less fish and pay more to have less? Even on the stocked trout which are specifically stocked as a put and take fishery for the purpose of increasing angling opportunities and reducing pressure on native species? Sounds like to me we're giving into preservationist ideology. This is no longer conservation for the future opprotunity its quickly going to be don't ever interact with nature period. Some senior bios tell me that the thinking in Europe is already that sport fishing is flat out wrong on the basis of cruelty to the fish.

I don't think there is any value in one angler trying to tell another angler what he should catch or keep. Provided we're all within the law who cares if I keep 5 and someone else keeps zero. My needs and your needs are two totally different things. This isn't about personal need this is about what does the fishery support. Frankly that is a bios job. And if we don't use a little more flexibility with one another then we too will go the way of Europe.
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Old 07-05-2016, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
I thought pike in pigeon is 0 limit now? No pressure there. It will take awhile yet before the balance is found and each lake will have special circumstances to achieve balance. Patience. Some friends got back from pigeon 2 weeks ago and each hooked up with some pike.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:06 PM
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The old regs were one over 40 in so not like the reg change did much. Most pike being taken out were done illegally anyways.
Give it time. That change to over 40 is not very old either. I think we all know there is a lot more than just limits to making a good water shed. I'm glad to hear of a report of catching pike from Moose and friends...sounds like a Saturday morning cartoon...lol
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:10 PM
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Give it time. That change to over 40 is not very old either. I think we all know there is a lot more than just limits to making a good water shed. I'm glad to hear of a report of catching pike from Moose and friends...sounds like a Saturday morning cartoon...lol
I'm not worried about it. I have caught pike there each time. I honestly think they are wasting their time trying to fix the pike population as they will probably just screw the walleye up. Accept it as a good walleye lake and move on imo.
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:38 PM
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I'm not worried about it. I have caught pike there each time. I honestly think they are wasting their time trying to fix the pike population as they will probably just screw the walleye up. Accept it as a good walleye lake and move on imo.
I don't think so. They are both predators and work well is so many lakes.

However, focusing Pigeon on the best walleye fishery it can be and say Wabamum as the best pike fishery, in the area that is. And, quit trying to compete them as both fish...makes me go "hmmmmmm"

P.S. One change, make Pigeon a trophy walleye and white destination. The whites are already the best I've had - hands down. I would hate to lose that

Last edited by SNAPFisher; 07-05-2016 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 07-06-2016, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by PerchBuster View Post
Ok yes but how are the rest of the species doing in there? Pike or Perch make a comeback yet? Any trophy class Walleye or are they all still 2 to 3 lbs on average? Haven't seen any 8 or 9 pounders caught there in a number of years. 10 or 12 years ago they were fairly common and easy to catch one like that, not now. The Walleye may look nice and healthy again, debatable if the lake as whole is or not I think.
.....those 10 lbs ers showed up only after the c
Comercial fishing removed a lot more fish then they were allowed and helped the lake immensely. ..this and many lakes are over still way over populated.
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Old 07-06-2016, 10:31 AM
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So am I hearing right that the consensus here is we all should be allowed less fish and pay more to have less?
The problem as I see it is that the fisheries in Alberta can only sustain so much harvest. The pie isn't getting any larger, but there's more and more people taking a piece of it. So it's a forgone conclusion that we will be forced to take less in an effort to better share the resources/prevent fisheries from collapsing. Until we can actually grow our fisheries (either by creating new lakes, creating new fish populations or influencing growth rates/breeding success) this is an unavoidable fact. Whether we're currently overharvesting or underharvesting, I don't really know, but I'd prefer to err on the side of caution until we have better information.

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Even on the stocked trout which are specifically stocked as a put and take fishery for the purpose of increasing angling opportunities and reducing pressure on native species?
The thing about many of the put and take trout lakes is that they are quickly fished out by a few hardcore anglers. So you have a resource that was created to benefit the many going to the few. Not sure how you can really fix this except by reducing possession limits to slow the harvest/increase fees to allow more frequent stocking. But at the end of the day you're right, these fish are stocked with the purpose of being taken.

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Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic View Post
Sounds like to me we're giving into preservationist ideology. This is no longer conservation for the future opprotunity its quickly going to be don't ever interact with nature period. [...] I don't think there is any value in one angler trying to tell another angler what he should catch or keep. Provided we're all within the law who cares if I keep 5 and someone else keeps zero.
I don't see the slippery slope of Alberta moving towards a "don't interact with nature" policy. And I don't think the point of this thread was for anglers to dictate to other anglers what to keep/release. The question was more "are there rule/policy changes F&W can make that would help create more sustainable fisheries in Alberta". I get the sense you probably agree with this because you say this isn't about our needs, which are all different, but about what the fisheries supports (quote below). That said, I'll continue to judge anglers who catch and keep 8 inch stockers. They may be within the law, but it doesn't mean I have to condone their behavior.

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My needs and your needs are two totally different things. This isn't about personal need this is about what does the fishery support.
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Old 07-07-2016, 02:42 AM
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Average is around 4 lbs. I caught one just over 5lbs. This was about 3 weeks ago over 2 days/5 hours of fishing.


I would say the real average is half that. I caught a couple hundred while there just before Canada day. Best was 3.5 but I stayed at the PP.
I did get a couple big pike, one was 28" and 4.5 lbs. haven't seen any that size there for awhile.
I think pigeons walleye numbers are due to the lake itself. Now that commercial fishing is done I don't see angling as a major influence on the diversity of the lake. Yet the impact of other influences such as commercial and native fishing may impact the populations forever.
My uncle told me a story about how natives used to drive down farm roads with their trunks full of whites for sale. One time in the spring and full of roe. That's sad.
I think walleye are simply the most resilient to the past effects and best and quickest to flourish and recover. I'm not a biologist with all the data to educated myself with but I don't believe the walleye numbers are majorly effecting whites, pike and others yet perhaps perch more so.
I think the angling is actually helping walleye. 99% of them get released and eat minnows all day. I caught the same fish almost a dozen times one day while there this year. Their very easy to catch which probably skews ones perception that the lake is just boiling with walleye alone. I'm not saying there's not lots, or their not the dominate species, but not the the extent you get the impression from by just fishing.
I'm happy to see how healthy the walleye are doing and I don't think we should be playing god too much. I think pigeon could go sideways easy and we could be reminiscing about the days pigeon had fish. There's so many dead or near dead lakes in AB that used to be great.
The best thing we can do is let Mother Nature do her work, IMO.


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Old 07-07-2016, 07:52 AM
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I would say the real average is half that. I caught a couple hundred while there just before Canada day. Best was 3.5 but I stayed at the PP.
I did get a couple big pike, one was 28" and 4.5 lbs. haven't seen any that size there for awhile.
I think pigeons walleye numbers are due to the lake itself. Now that commercial fishing is done I don't see angling as a major influence on the diversity of the lake. Yet the impact of other influences such as commercial and native fishing may impact the populations forever.
My uncle told me a story about how natives used to drive down farm roads with their trunks full of whites for sale. One time in the spring and full of roe. That's sad.
I think walleye are simply the most resilient to the past effects and best and quickest to flourish and recover. I'm not a biologist with all the data to educated myself with but I don't believe the walleye numbers are majorly effecting whites, pike and others yet perhaps perch more so.
I think the angling is actually helping walleye. 99% of them get released and eat minnows all day. I caught the same fish almost a dozen times one day while there this year. Their very easy to catch which probably skews ones perception that the lake is just boiling with walleye alone. I'm not saying there's not lots, or their not the dominate species, but not the the extent you get the impression from by just fishing.
I'm happy to see how healthy the walleye are doing and I don't think we should be playing god too much. I think pigeon could go sideways easy and we could be reminiscing about the days pigeon had fish. There's so many dead or near dead lakes in AB that used to be great.
The best thing we can do is let Mother Nature do her work, IMO.


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You're bang on. Leave it what it is: a crazy good walleye fishery. It's the best place in Alberta to teach people how to catch a walleye by simple trial and error. I fish across the lake from the PP and have probably caught 1000-2000 walleye in the last 5 years there. The average is definitely around 19-21" (1.5-2lbs~) with 5.5 being the biggest we've pulled out of there. The pike we do manage to hook have been healthy and not bad sizes. I'm all for leaving it alone and enjoying what it is.
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Old 07-07-2016, 12:52 PM
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Walleye are improving, but the other species are getting hammered. The tag system works for that species but throws off the balance for the rest of the lake.
The last week I ice fished Pigeon I was catching Walleye/Pike about 50%/50% and I was easily into double digits. Lots of hammer handles but did mange a few upwards of 6-7lbs. Best thing was that there was easily 3-4 age classes which is important. Balance is finally starting to come back. Too bad about water temps which is decimating the Whitefish pop.

The issues with the other species at Pigeon are related (directly or indirectly) to land development in and around the watershed whether it be farms or recreational properties. It is not because of the Walleye. All of the species co-existed in the lake long before us anglers or commercial fisherman screwed it up.

The tag system is a innovative way to manage the fishery while still allowing for some harvest. Although some people hate it, I'm a big C&R guy so I'm for anything that helps me catch larger fish more regularly so tag system gets my support.
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Old 07-07-2016, 01:23 PM
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I bet there is actually quite a few pike in Pigeon. Who actually goes out there and even targets them? I think most people catch a few as by catch fishing for walleye but that is far from the ideal techniques for targeting pike.
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Old 07-08-2016, 09:21 AM
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I bet there is actually quite a few pike in Pigeon. Who actually goes out there and even targets them? I think most people catch a few as by catch fishing for walleye but that is far from the ideal techniques for targeting pike.
Agreed. There are still some big hen's in there. Caught my PB ice fishing pike out of Pigeon a few years ago.
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:31 PM
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Dont worry you guys will get your wish the hole province will go that way cause them wallwyes are worth big money and the ndp goverenment needs your money
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Old 07-08-2016, 03:35 PM
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Dont worry you guys will get your wish the hole province will go that way cause them wallwyes are worth big money and the ndp goverenment needs your money
I wonder what it costs the gov't to raise walleye and transport them places vs. take in money through tags? Anyone know how much they spend for the walleye stocking program? Anyone know what they make from tags? Curious.
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Old 07-08-2016, 03:51 PM
lsxfirebird lsxfirebird is offline
 
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Not when the lake is overrun with walleye.

A guy definitely can't complain too much about Pigeon these days. There is stupid good walleye fishing and some decent size.

The pike and perch fishing is crap but I don't think that it really matters that much. Leave Pigeon a walleye lake instead of trying to change it and wreck it like they did to Wabamun which had 0 upside to the addition of walleye...

You do realize wab had walleye before ? They are only reintroducing a species that was in the lake up until the mid 90's...

Last edited by lsxfirebird; 07-08-2016 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 07-08-2016, 04:00 PM
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You do realize wab had walleye before they were fished out?? They are only reintroducing a species that we removed from the lake...
Point?

Dinosaurs once roamed the earth, do we need to bring them back too?
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