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Old 11-05-2017, 07:27 PM
79ford 79ford is offline
 
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Default 22 000 barrels/day propane=4.2 billion plant?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-k...-idUSKBN1D409K

This is pretty neat, 22 000 barrels per day of propane turned into plastic can support 4.2 billion dollar processing facility and the billions it will need in wages and maintenance over its life span.

This is a pretty big win for potential processing in alberta, lots of the propane floating around these days too so they will probably make some money using something they burn up the stack in some plants the price is so low these days
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:15 PM
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Building a cracker in Alberta, pretty cool. No mention of where?
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 79ford View Post
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-k...-idUSKBN1D409K

This is pretty neat, 22 000 barrels per day of propane turned into plastic can support 4.2 billion dollar processing facility and the billions it will need in wages and maintenance over its life span.

This is a pretty big win for potential processing in alberta, lots of the propane floating around these days too so they will probably make some money using something they burn up the stack in some plants the price is so low these days

No body's "burning propane up the stack" on purpose period end of story. Number one you are not allowed. Number two propane is worth money.
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:57 AM
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No body's "burning propane up the stack" on purpose period end of story. Number one you are not allowed. Number two propane is worth money.
Agreed. False point however good to have any plant. NIMBY will likely kill it. Or regulations. Hope the start soon.

Propane is never burnt. While sometimes not stripped out at a shallow or deep cut plant the gas can be sent in the pipeline hot and with higher btu can get a bump in price paid.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:06 AM
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Building a cracker in Alberta, pretty cool. No mention of where?
Near Redwater
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:06 AM
79ford 79ford is offline
 
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No body's "burning propane up the stack" on purpose period end of story. Number one you are not allowed. Number two propane is worth money.
Stack, meaning fuel gas vs sales, not flare stack.



It is supposedly next to pembinas redwater fractionator, interpipeline is building another propylene facility just south of shell, the earthworks looks weell underway but i dont think they are full heartedly committed, they need to spend some 3.7 billion and that probably means borrowing money or issuing shares alooooot of shares.
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:03 AM
mac1983 mac1983 is online now
 
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How will this affect the local residential price for propane? Once we start exporting it and processing it will it still be affordable to burn as a heating fuel?
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:14 AM
makin tracks makin tracks is offline
 
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like anything else it will be going up as there will now be more of a demand. sorry that is just how it goes.
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:06 PM
79ford 79ford is offline
 
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How will this affect the local residential price for propane? Once we start exporting it and processing it will it still be affordable to burn as a heating fuel?
22 000 barrels of propane isnt much from what I understand, alberta produces hundreds of thousands of barrels of propane, butane, pentane etc. Everyday. Thats why i find it soo amazing 22 000 barrels can feed such a beast of a plant. 4.2 billion is usually greek for 8-10 billion total cost in alberta, lol

Once you make propylene or polypropylene you need to rail the stuff, store it, some companies will probably make plastic widgets with it..... its an industry the size of the ethane industry, look how big those operations have gotten. Nova chemicals, dow chemical, all the feeder plants.
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:19 PM
mac1983 mac1983 is online now
 
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22 000 barrels of propane isnt much from what I understand, alberta produces hundreds of thousands of barrels of propane, butane, pentane etc. Everyday. Thats why i find it soo amazing 22 000 barrels can feed such a beast of a plant. 4.2 billion is usually greek for 8-10 billion total cost in alberta, lol

Once you make propylene or polypropylene you need to rail the stuff, store it, some companies will probably make plastic widgets with it..... its an industry the size of the ethane industry, look how big those operations have gotten. Nova chemicals, dow chemical, all the feeder plants.
https://www.aer.ca/data-and-publicat...-supply-demand

seems like alot of propane coming online...
Still if they can make more money off of propane residential customers they will.
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:40 PM
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Some one must have a lock on propane sales for domestic use, i see 89 cents a liter down the street. Surprising some one isnt out selling cheap propane to beat the regular dealers. I think propane is worth some 15$ or so per barrel which is essentially free considering how much propane that is
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:13 PM
mac1983 mac1983 is online now
 
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i paid 0.57/liter Oct. 13
so 1Bbl = 159 l
159x0.57=$90.63/Bbl in grande prairie.
Correct my math if i'm wrong but there seems to be money in propane.
That price is delivered to my farm.
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:28 PM
Alex1272001 Alex1272001 is offline
 
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sure nice to read about another plant being constructed in the province. Thats going to provide both temporary construction and full time operation/maintenance jobs is always a good thing. I just struggle with the fact that we have to rely on foreign ownership to develop our own resources.
don't want to stir the pot just my opinion
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:01 AM
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Pretty complicated market. Propane is in abundance so not much money to make on it, most of the time just covering the costs to extract it. It's more expensive to distribute it as well especially to residences.
Where the money is in is plastics especially in this day and age obviously in manufacturing.
The company's target the ethane as that pays the bills when extracting gas, propane just comes with it as well as the higher hydrocarbons like butane which also aren't worth much due to being in abundance.
These new plants can take the excess, cheap propane and convert it to Propylene in form of plastic pellets. It will be a first in Canada, as all the propylene is brought in from out of country.
There will be more then one plant like this built by other companies in the Redwater area due to this market commodity.
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:17 AM
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4.2 billion is usually greek for 8-10 billion total cost in alberta, lol
Agreed. No large facility project has ever been built in this province for the original number it was projected to cost. Although costs have leveled off in recent years, I'll put money on it today this being a minimum +50% more than the 4.2 billion when it is all said and done.

Nice to see some diversity and local refinement occurring. Labour costs have leveled off, plethora of labour availability, low loonie, excess supply, and government incentives likely all contributing.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:09 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Thought Williams was already building first propylene plant near Redwater, so nice to see a second plant value adding to Alberta raw material and creating lots of high paying jobs. Lots of engineers and tradesman need a few large projects for work.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:14 AM
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Williams in Canada is no more, Interpipeline bought them out and are building the PDH plant. Word is Pembina will be building one as well. It's a really weird relationship between the two as Interpipeline owns the Redwater fractionator too but Pembina operates it....
These plants will employ thousands to build over then next however many years and approx 180 operators alone daily. They will have full utility cogen plants and all.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:14 PM
I_forget I_forget is offline
 
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Williams in Canada is no more, Interpipeline bought them out and are building the PDH plant. Word is Pembina will be building one as well. It's a really weird relationship between the two as Interpipeline owns the Redwater fractionator too but Pembina operates it....
These plants will employ thousands to build over then next however many years and approx 180 operators alone daily. They will have full utility cogen plants and all.
I understand Kiewit is building it ? Any other contractors you know of that will be involved ? Who’s gonna build the cogen
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:19 PM
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Not too sure who all is doing the contract work, I could find out if really needed though. Probably just easiest to check out their website... http://www.interpipeline.com/operati...complexcfm.cfm

I just watched the video and it did say Kiewit construction at this point doing the work.

Cessco and Dacro are doing fab work as well.

Last edited by Sparx; 08-11-2018 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:39 PM
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Tremendous
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Sparx View Post
Williams in Canada is no more, Interpipeline bought them out and are building the PDH plant. Word is Pembina will be building one as well. It's a really weird relationship between the two as Interpipeline owns the Redwater fractionator too but Pembina operates it....
These plants will employ thousands to build over then next however many years and approx 180 operators alone daily. They will have full utility cogen plants and all.
Your close but not really, yes Pembina's site but Interpipeline has its Olefins plant here but Pembina runs it for them.
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Old 08-12-2018, 12:57 AM
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I might throw my hat in, timing is about right.
They are already seeking their panel Ops to train in Calagary.

TBark
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:58 AM
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I might throw my hat in, timing is about right.
They are already seeking their panel Ops to train in Calagary.

TBark
You saw that too? I thought it was just an internal posting for now. Haha
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:03 AM
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Your close but not really, yes Pembina's site but Interpipeline has its Olefins plant here but Pembina runs it for them.
Inter Pipeline’s NGL Processing business consists of 100 percent ownership interests in the Cochrane and Empress II plants and a 50 percent ownership interest in the Empress V plant (collectively the “Straddle Plants”). The Empress II and V plants are located on the eastern leg of the TransCanada Alberta System, and the Cochrane plant is located on the western leg near the natural gas export points from the province of Alberta. These plants process pipeline quality natural gas to remove natural gas liquids (NGL) comprised of ethane, propane, butane and pentanes-plus. The NGL stream is then partially fractionated to produce a specification ethane product and propane plus, a mixture of propane, butane and pentanes-plus.

In addition, Inter Pipeline has 100 percent ownership interests in two offgas plants located near Fort McMurray, Alberta, an ethane-plus fractionation plant near Redwater, Alberta, and the Boreal pipeline system that connects these facilities (collectively the “offgas processing business”). The two offgas plants have the capacity to recover approximately 40,000 b/d of an ethane-plus mixture from upgrader offgas, a by-product of bitumen upgrading operations. Once extracted, the liquids mix is shipped via pipeline to Redwater where it is fractionated into marketable products and sold across North America.

In 2017 the straddle plants processed an average of 2.7 bcf/d of natural gas producing an average of 89,000 b/d of NGL. In September 2016, Inter Pipeline acquired the offgas business adding ~40,000 b/d of ethane-plus production capacity bringing the combined business total production capacity to over 240,000 b/d. NGL are generally used directly as an energy product and as a feedstock for the petrochemical and crude oil refining industries.

In addition, Inter Pipeline has authorized the construction of a world-scale, integrated propane dehydrogenation (PDH) and polypropylene (PP) plant. The facilities, collectively referred to as the Heartland Petrochemical Complex, are estimated to cost $3.5 billion in aggregate and will be located near Inter Pipeline’s Redwater Olefinic Fractionator in Strathcona County, Alberta
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Old 08-12-2018, 11:13 AM
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I thought this plant is already under constructions. I have some friends there banging nails at the moment. Kiewit has it but word is Flour is taking over the office right now and then craft with in a couple months. Happy to see Union take it over, a lot of guys will leave the LRT job for it.
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:36 PM
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I thought this plant is already under constructions. I have some friends there banging nails at the moment. Kiewit has it but word is Flour is taking over the office right now and then craft with in a couple months. Happy to see Union take it over, a lot of guys will leave the LRT job for it.
I would like that to happen. Kinda weird to have Fluor do the engineering and Kiewit the construction
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:31 PM
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Rumour mill last year was saying that it would be all union craft that builds it. But it's all non union for the mod yards. But that's just the mill talking eh.
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Old 08-12-2018, 07:47 PM
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I would like that to happen. Kinda weird to have Fluor do the engineering and Kiewit the construction
I believe Flour is taking over the whole gig. Construction and all, for the most part the plant is designed and will only need engineers for RFI’s. Just once the office is done taking over for it, Flour will bring in its craft, wouldn’t be a bad job, new construction so full agreement. Double time!
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Old 08-12-2018, 07:52 PM
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I believe Flour is taking over the whole gig. Construction and all, for the most part the plant is designed and will only need engineers for RFI’s. Just once the office is done taking over for it, Flour will bring in its craft, wouldn’t be a bad job, new construction so full agreement. Double time!
Yes I would jump on that in a heartbeat. Not worth going up north anymore. I’ll find out tomorow if Fluor is getting the job
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:39 PM
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I would like that to happen. Kinda weird to have Fluor do the engineering and Kiewit the construction
Not weird at all. Fluor has engineered portions of a handful of larger plants in the past where "real" contractors actually constructed the facilities.
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