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Old 11-07-2017, 04:48 PM
bobmac bobmac is offline
 
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Default 45-70 for bush gun any thoughts

Iím thinking about getting a 45-70 for my close range gun moose bear hopefully bison one day thought on the cal would be great thinking no scope
Thanks Bob
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:29 PM
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A classic- I too would like a bush gun in .45-70 one day. My dream rifle would be a Winchester model 1886. Heard a lot about quality control issues with the Marlins and I don't like the magazine on the Henry. A gun like that you want to work as intended every time
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:29 PM
Bushleague Bushleague is online now
 
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Originally Posted by HowSwedeItIs View Post
A classic- I too would like a bush gun in .45-70 one day. My dream rifle would be a Winchester model 1886. Heard a lot about quality control issues with the Marlins and I don't like the magazine on the Henry. A gun like that you want to work as intended every time
I recently read an article called "Is Marlin Back?" where they tested a few of the new Marlins, and their findings were that the QC problems of a few years ago have been taken care of. Good news IMO.

As a dedicated bush hunter, here's my opinion on bush guns... whatever gun you use the most is the best rifle to use for bush hunting. When the shots are close and need to be made quick the most important thing, without exception, is that you are extremely familiar with your gun.

IMO a dedicated "bush gun" only makes sense if it is to be your main rifle, if you don't hunt bush the majority of the time then ensuring your main rifle is not extremely long, overly heavy, or wearing too much magnification is a better plan.

For the hunter that pretty much only hunts thick timber a 45-70 would make an excellent main rifle.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:48 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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There's a fellow on YouTube that makes shooting the 45/70 look easy.
Forward Tang with peep-hole rear.

One shot at a time off a old shooting bench or the Two-Stick.

Very impressed as he launched those 365gr lead bullets down range onto the iron silhouettes.

Dead Eye Shooter for sure.

Glad you're onto a path of good times.

Don
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:55 PM
Boogerfart Boogerfart is offline
 
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The 45/70 is a great brush rifle, I've got a pair of H&R's, a carbon steel/wood stock with iron sights and a 22" barrel and a stainless/laminate stock with a scope and 24" barrel. The stainless is my current favorite rifle.
My only concern would be if you reload, if you don't reload at all it would be time to start, you'll want to start casting your own bullets as well, it takes the cost from dollers per round to pennies per round.
There's no need for full power rounds unless you're concerned about short range bears or something, a 405gr bullet is deadly even at very low speeds and much easier on the shoulder. A buddy of mine shot a moose this fall with his 45/70, the load was a hand cast 405gr bullet over 14gr of Unique, the moose dropped on the spot, the shot was from about 50yds.
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Old 11-07-2017, 07:07 PM
Smokinyotes Smokinyotes is offline
 
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I have a jm stamped 1895 cowboy with 26" octagon barrel. Its a hard kickin' killin machine. I had the original sights and put a tang sight on it. After a few years i couldnt see the peep sight anymore and ended up putting a 2-7 Leopold on it. Everyone should own a 45/70.
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Old 11-07-2017, 07:46 PM
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Sask Bearman Sask Bearman is offline
 
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I agree, everyone should have a 45/70. I have an older JM Marlin guide gun. It's factory ported and will crack your ears but kills stuff quick. Shot a bear in the middle of the chest and it came out his rear one time with a 350 grain hornady.
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Old 11-07-2017, 07:47 PM
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Definitely a capable classic. I had a Marlin guide gun for a long time, which I sold. My wife even liked it! I'd definitely go with a longer barrel next time for a little more 'pleasant' shooting.
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Old 11-07-2017, 07:48 PM
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I went through the .45-70 guide gun and Marlin .444 phase years ago. Problem was I always found myself in cutblocks or on a cutline when out in the bush where in all reality itís the last kinda firearm you would want in those circumstances. Go for it. Quench your thirst and see where it leads..
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushleague View Post
I recently read an article called "Is Marlin Back?" where they tested a few of the new Marlins, and their findings were that the QC problems of a few years ago have been taken care of. Good news IMO.

As a dedicated bush hunter, here's my opinion on bush guns... whatever gun you use the most is the best rifle to use for bush hunting. When the shots are close and need to be made quick the most important thing, without exception, is that you are extremely familiar with your gun.

IMO a dedicated "bush gun" only makes sense if it is to be your main rifle, if you don't hunt bush the majority of the time then ensuring your main rifle is not extremely long, overly heavy, or wearing too much magnification is a better plan.

For the hunter that pretty much only hunts thick timber a 45-70 would make an excellent main rifle.
Man it's great to hear that they're shaping up, the guide guns are much more accessible to the average guy than most of their competition. Still, for what you pay for one you sure don't want to have to work the gun over for burrs haha
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmac View Post
Iím thinking about getting a 45-70 for my close range gun moose bear hopefully bison one day thought on the cal would be great thinking no scope
Thanks Bob
Marlin GBL.
Son has one, when I shot it it was a push into the shoulder, rested using the peep sight which is provided on this rifle put 5 shots in a 2.5" cluster at 100 yards. Funny this was very consistant with various weights too...just a nice, smooth handling fast target acquisition rifle.
Check out the SBL model too
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:24 AM
bobinthesky bobinthesky is offline
 
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The Marlin is a good rifle but in 45-70, the action is too short for the longer/heavier bullets which (IMO) are what is best at close range if your using it for bear defense. For hunting of course, the lighter 250 to 300 grain bullets are fine. Chiappa's 1886 clone has a larger action and can cycle the heavy bullets just fine but it's heavier and more expensive to buy but it is available in a short barrel version.
If you never get out of thick bush then these are good choices for hunting rifles but your severely handicapped when you step out onto a cut line and see the bull of your dreams standing 350 yards away presenting the perfect shot..... for a scoped rifle!
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:24 AM
smle303 smle303 is offline
 
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Default 45/70

up some bush use in tight spots.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:29 AM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
 
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Picked up a Pedersoli Sharps Calvary Carbine this year...should be the cats derriere if you like single shots.
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  #15  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:38 AM
stob stob is offline
 
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met a guy who put a 405 gr cor bon I believe it was stem to stern on a big moose at 25paces and apparently the moose fell in it's shadow
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  #16  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:40 AM
stob stob is offline
 
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mine is marlin guide gun ss that I can hit a 200m gong with the ghost ring sites with 325gr flex tips all day long ... all day long with this gun is about 15 shots - lol - for me and the straight grip - ughhh
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  #17  
Old 11-08-2017, 10:50 AM
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Have had a jm stamped guide model for years and love it, recently purchased a new gbl for the wife been wanting to for a while but was leary of the new quality it functions as it should so i am happy with it my only complaint is the fit and finish is a joke compared to my jm stamped 1895 much much less attention to detail especially the wood fit. But it is a saddle gun that will see many scratches and hard use so pretty wasnt a big deal for me. If your looking i see cabelas calgary had some really cheap (new ) in the gun library $599 i believe
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  #18  
Old 11-08-2017, 02:30 PM
S.A.S. S.A.S. is offline
 
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Default Marlin or Henry

I was looking into 45-70 lever action rifles also. I liked the Henry but I liked the Marlin's capacity of 6+1 over the Henry's 4. I hear the Marlins are being made better than they were for a few years. I also heard the Henry's may have had a problem with the feeding tube cap because of a large round and recoil. I still like the henry but would probably pick up a Marlin and try it out. You can always sell it if it isn't what you want. I myself might just pick up a Remington rolling block reproduction as I don't really need a bush gun and would like something with some history and some barrel. I think it will be a lot of fun to shoot also.
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:32 PM
YYC338 YYC338 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobinthesky View Post
The Marlin is a good rifle but in 45-70, the action is too short for the longer/heavier bullets which (IMO) are what is best at close range if your using it for bear defense. For hunting of course, the lighter 250 to 300 grain bullets are fine. Chiappa's 1886 clone has a larger action and can cycle the heavy bullets just fine but it's heavier and more expensive to buy but it is available in a short barrel version.
If you never get out of thick bush then these are good choices for hunting rifles but your severely handicapped when you step out onto a cut line and see the bull of your dreams standing 350 yards away presenting the perfect shot..... for a scoped rifle!
How big a bullet are you talking about? I load 450gr Montana & 465gr Cast Performance hard cast bullets and have never had a problem with cycling.
Being hard cast, they'd likely penetrate end to end although I've never had the need to shoot a big bear (thank God!). Lots of information on other forums about this though. People shooting up to 525gr Piledrivers without issues in 1895's also. The 1895 seems to be a choice for more than a few Alaskan guides too. I can imagine they're going into bear country loaded with short 250 - 350gr rounds.

Rifle is a JM 1895SS

All my other 1895's (CBA, SBL & GS) shoot 405 gr jacketed bullets without issues either.
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:00 PM
guysmiley guysmiley is offline
 
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I have the GBL model and it's great. They absolutely fixed the quality issues. The fit and finish are wonderful and it is a joy to shoot.

Rarely is it not with me while at the farm.

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/24569
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:34 PM
bobinthesky bobinthesky is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YYC338 View Post
How big a bullet are you talking about? I load 450gr Montana & 465gr Cast Performance hard cast bullets and have never had a problem with cycling.
Being hard cast, they'd likely penetrate end to end although I've never had the need to shoot a big bear (thank God!). Lots of information on other forums about this though. People shooting up to 525gr Piledrivers without issues in 1895's also. The 1895 seems to be a choice for more than a few Alaskan guides too. I can imagine they're going into bear country loaded with short 250 - 350gr rounds.

Rifle is a JM 1895SS

All my other 1895's (CBA, SBL & GS) shoot 405 gr jacketed bullets without issues either.

Some bullets such as the ones you mention are designed with the Marlin in mind and they have the cannelure placed further ahead so the bullet can be seated deep enough to shorten the overall length. The downside to a forward cannelure is decreased powder space in the case. The upside to this is the popular belief that bullet weight trumps velocity for close in bear defense.
I can tell you from experience that 350 grain Hot Cor and 405 grain Remington bullets to name a couple are too long to cycle in the Marlin if crimped into the cannelure and these are the bullets that you will most likely find in your local store rather than specialty cast 525 grain Piledriver bullets.
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:39 PM
morinj morinj is offline
 
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Excellent choice, covers a lot of applications, with one caliber!
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:44 PM
YYC338 YYC338 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobinthesky View Post
Some bullets such as the ones you mention are designed with the Marlin in mind and they have the cannelure placed further ahead so the bullet can be seated deep enough to shorten the overall length. The downside to a forward cannelure is decreased powder space in the case. The upside to this is the popular belief that bullet weight trumps velocity for close in bear defense.
I can tell you from experience that 350 grain Hot Cor and 405 grain Remington bullets to name a couple are too long to cycle in the Marlin if crimped into the cannelure and these are the bullets that you will most likely find in your local store rather than specialty cast bullets.
Lots of good bullets out there. 405 Rem's are no longer being manufactured though. I use 400gr Barnes originals which hold together a lot better than the Rem's ever did. 350 gr Swift A-Frames are spendy but an excellent bullet. Even the 350gr Hornady FP designed for the 450 Marlin are very good for the price, cheap and also easy to find at Cabela's or they'll order them to store for free.

Who needs stores to find items these days anyway? It's an internet world out there and product comes right to your door for reasonable shipping if you shop around.

Probably easier to find FP bullets designed for the 45-70 that work in Marlins than to find those that don't.

Last edited by YYC338; 11-08-2017 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:52 PM
YYC338 YYC338 is offline
 
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Excellent choice, covers a lot of applications, with one caliber!
Absolutely, I've reloaded for almost 40 years for scores of different cartridges and the 45-70 is without a doubt the one you see people use over the widest velocity range and bullet type to give great flexibility (within it's limitations).

From 1100-1200fps for 400gr bullets in cowboy shooting and the old trap door rifles to almost 2200fps in Ruger No. 1's for the people who want to take it to Africa for very large and dangerous game, and many do. Not that I'm recommending that though.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:25 PM
bobinthesky bobinthesky is offline
 
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Calgary International Airport338
I'm not trying to take anything away from the 1895 Marlin, they have far too good of a reputation for me to take that on. That being said, it was my intention to answer the question which was "thoughts?" so I gave mine. Obviously you don't agree and that's fine with me but as good as the Marlin is, it does have limitations or weak points and they're well known. The fact that the 1895 action is slightly shorter than the 1886 action could be viewed as minor by some but the upside is that it's lighter to carry. The other is that the 1895 is not as strong as the 1886. This isn't my opinion but a commonly known fact, the biggest weak point in the Marlin is the receiver in between the barrel and magazine, if a Marlin is going to come apart from over pressure, this is usually where it will happen. In general, heavy bullets can be seated longer in the 1886 and pushed to a higher velocity. At this point we're splitting hairs but don't let that stop you from enjoying the 1895, it's not my intention to do that as I've enjoyed mine for many years however, it's not an 1886!.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:57 PM
YYC338 YYC338 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobinthesky View Post
Calgary International Airport338
I'm not trying to take anything away from the 1895 Marlin, they have far too good of a reputation for me to take that on. That being said, it was my intention to answer the question which was "thoughts?" so I gave mine. Obviously you don't agree and that's fine with me but as good as the Marlin is, it does have limitations or weak points and they're well known. The fact that the 1895 action is slightly shorter than the 1886 action could be viewed as minor by some but the upside is that it's lighter to carry. The other is that the 1895 is not as strong as the 1886. This isn't my opinion but a commonly known fact, the biggest weak point in the Marlin is the receiver in between the barrel and magazine, if a Marlin is going to come apart from over pressure, this is usually where it will happen. In general, heavy bullets can be seated longer in the 1886 and pushed to a higher velocity. At this point we're splitting hairs but don't let that stop you from enjoying the 1895, it's not my intention to do that as I've enjoyed mine for many years however, it's not an 1886!.
But that's the beauty of the 45-70 though. You don't have to wind it up to the max to get excellent performance from it. Check out Beartooth Bullets site. There are studies done that show for 400gr (I think) bullets, penetration is max'd at about 1600fps. There isn't a Marlin 1895 made since 1972 that can't achieve that without breaking a sweat. Actually you can do 1900fps quite safely. The only purpose to achieve max velocity out of this cartridge is to flatten trajectory. If you're looking for flat trajectory, you're working with the wrong cartridge.
If using cast, use a bullet of WFN design. It will do all the damage you need to get quick humane kills and will penetrate forever. The best part is that you can "eat right up to the hole" with little bloodshot meat from hyper-velocity.
Remember, this bullet starts out making a .458 caliber hole. Lots of smaller caliber cartridges never achieve that with maximum expansion (which can sacrifice penetration).
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:28 PM
colroggal colroggal is offline
 
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The 45-70 does not need max velocity to kill things dead. The bigger the animal, the bigger the bullet. Simple really.

Another thing of note about the 45-70: it remains stable as it becomes transonic.

Colin
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:02 PM
YYC338 YYC338 is offline
 
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Default Let's get back on topic

Getting back the the OP's original question which was about the 45-70 cartridge not which firearm model may or may not be better than another.
Posts about the virtues of one firearm model and dumping on the perceived flaws of another are nothing but a derail.

The 45-70 is an excellent choice for a brush gun due to its versatility. My one caution would be to be very sure of your distance to target and be very familiar with the trajectory of the load you are shooting.

Most choose to zero their rifles for this cartridge at 100yds or maybe less. Taking a 150 yd vs a 250yd shot (which the 45-70 is quite capable of) has a huge difference in bullet drop associated with it. The difference between a hit or a miss even depending on the size of the game you are using it for.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmac View Post
Iím thinking about getting a 45-70 for my close range gun moose bear hopefully bison one day thought on the cal would be great thinking no scope
Thanks Bob
Hello bobmac; as to your original post, you can see a lot of people like the 45/70. Me included I've been shooting one for a few years now I love it. Now I'm just getting in to reloading them, and I'm excited about the possibilities what this old classic caliber can do.

On a side note, I've converted a few family members who once questioned my original idea of the 45/70 and it changed their mind.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:56 PM
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I have 2 guide guns, took one in a trade. They are a lot of fun and work well, kinda rough on the shoulder though. You'll never feel "Under-gunned" with one of these beasts in 45-70. Great cartridge. Is $500 fair for a close to new, minty GBL?
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