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Old 11-11-2017, 02:19 PM
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Question So I'm in a Poopy Situation.... Literally... UPDATE: It got messy.....

So I’m in a Poopy situation…. Literally

I took my Cougar24SAWBE travel trailer out for our hunting trip last week, and temps got down to about -23C a few nights. I didn’t use the water system or the grey tanks, which are all winterized.

The cougar brand advertises a ‘0F degree tested’ winter package, which I put to the test for the first time. It’s the standard enclosed underbelly with ducts that run furnace air around the tanks to keep them warm. Well, I can confirm it’s not as good of quality as my 22H arctic Fox trailer that I used to own, but sold because it was a little too small for two people and a big black lab.

Long story short, I can’t get the gate valve on my black tank to open, it’s frozen solid. I store my trailer about 20 minutes from home, and they are only open during short hours in the winter. I showed up today with a generator, heat gun, big buddy heater, and two big turd totes. Of course the place was closed for the stat holiday, which they failed to mention when I called on Wednesday to confirm hours of operation.

When I put the trailer into storage last Monday, I nearly lost my truck and trailer as it slid backwards down the road about 35 feet until I could get it back under control. Then I spun out again on the top of the hill with the trailer still on the slope. After some charged adrenaline, I found some gravel to throw under my tires and got myself unstuck. (BTW stock Hankook Dynapro tires on an F150 are absolute garbage on slick snow, I’ve already called fountain tire for a set of Duratracs)

I put 20 litres of -50C RV antifreeze down my black tank and I’m about 2/3 full. When I looked down the toilet today after five days in the storage unit I’m seeing a bit of ice crystals on the top of the tank but doesn’t look frozen solid. Because the RV lot was closed, I had to walk in about a half km, so drug the turd totes in but couldn’t get a heat gun or the heater underneath the trailer.

The black tank is spec’d at 144litres (38 gallons), and I’ve put down 20 litres of RV antifreeze and estimate there’s about 70 litres of ‘black’ stuff in there from 6 days of use. Really hoping that I don’t freeze the thing solid.

My intent is to go back on Monday with temps of +6C in the late afternoon, throw an electric heat gun on with the generator and direct heat up the sewer pipe to warm up the gate valves, and then use the big buddy heater under the trailer and I’ll build a little shroud. I’ll also run the furnace to warm up the underbelly. I can’t think of any other ideas to deal with this poopsicle. I don’t trust my truck hauling it back out of storage to a heated shop, so going to have to try to do this in situ.

Anyone else had similar crappy experiences? Any suggestions??
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:27 PM
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Oh my. Add this to my list of reasons not to own an RV....sorry for your issues. Are you well insured? Accidents happen with those Buddy Heaters....
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck View Post
Oh my. Add this to my list of reasons not to own an RV....sorry for your issues. Are you well insured? Accidents happen with those Buddy Heaters....
I'm using this for an excuse to buy a wall tent for winter camping!

That is, if I ever can pay for the vet bills for Duke's recent TPLO knee surgery....
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:33 PM
kinwahkly kinwahkly is offline
 
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Ugh. Never use any Tanks in frigid weather. It's not you're tank full of crap freezing it's the outside trap and tunnel which freeze up . Don't be to hard on the valve as it will break with force. You're going to have to get temp up before you can release valve. Good luck
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by kinwahkly View Post
Ugh. Never use any Tanks in frigid weather. It's not you're tank full of crap freezing it's the outside trap and tunnel which freeze up . Don't be to hard on the valve as it will break with force. You're going to have to get temp up before you can release valve. Good luck
Yeah, Guess I was spoiled with my arctic fox. We could have a shower at -25C and not think anything of it! Used the water system and everything. As long as the furnace stayed running we were fine.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:44 PM
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If it was already frozen solid why not wait till spring?
I don't think it would cause any damage unless it was full although I've never left much in my black tank over winter.

Getting a 25 gallon poopsicle unfrozen with no shelter could be tough.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albertadiver View Post
I'm using this for an excuse to buy a wall tent for winter camping!

That is, if I ever can pay for the vet bills for Duke's recent TPLO knee surgery....
And whatever toilet facilities you use with your wall tent will also work with your RV should you choose to take it out in sub-zero temperatures again.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bat119 View Post
If it was already frozen solid why not wait till spring?
I don't think it would cause any damage unless it was full although I've never left much in my black tank over winter.

Getting a 25 gallon poopsicle unfrozen with no shelter could be tough.
The contents of the tank aren't frozen (I don't think) just some slushy stuff on the top. I'm just worried about wrecking the tank and piping if I leave it in all winter. With the temperatures expected, I don't think the ratio of antifreeze to solids/liquids is enough to keep it from freezing and expanding with extended cold temperatures.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:51 PM
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You don't need to worry about piping all the waste would be in your black tank, try phoning an RV dealer I'm sure somebody has gone through winter with 1/2 tank of waste.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:53 PM
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You don't need to worry about piping all the waste would be in your black tank, try phoning an RV dealer I'm sure somebody has gone through winter with 1/2 tank of waste.
Yeah, I'll be calling my sales lady. She's more knowledgeable than the RV techs that I've dealt with for the multitude of warranty issues on other things.....
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:30 PM
denied access denied access is offline
 
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I would be a bit nervous about hitting the valve with a heat gun. That cheap black plastic is pretty fragile. Is it possible to fill your fresh water, flame up your water heater and hit it with hot water from your external shower or use a kettle on your stove and use hot water? It generally does not take a lot of hot water to thaw something and less chance of a catastrophe. To thaw water lines I have ran a hoses up them, stuck a funnel in the end and poured hot water in. Goes real fast.

I dont really think it will hurt anything if you leave it frozen and if you break the valve you really will have a poopy situation. Pipes and valve are already froze so if they are not cracked now they should be ok. My only concern would be the tank expanding esp if vent stack is froze. Might wanna throw another jug of antifreeze in and stir it (yuck) with a stick if you can.

Best of luck. Maybe put a heat trace on the pipe and heat pads on the tanks for next year.
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Old 11-11-2017, 04:46 PM
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take a kettle of some type and pour boiling water on it. or take it to a car wash and hit it with warm water, or leave it sit in a heated bay for a while. If you were closer you could put it in mine, surely someone has room for a couple days there
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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Old 11-11-2017, 04:47 PM
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I can come get it with the 1 ton if you need, no point chancing something getting wrecked
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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Old 11-11-2017, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denied access View Post
I would be a bit nervous about hitting the valve with a heat gun. That cheap black plastic is pretty fragile. Is it possible to fill your fresh water, flame up your water heater and hit it with hot water from your external shower or use a kettle on your stove and use hot water? It generally does not take a lot of hot water to thaw something and less chance of a catastrophe. To thaw water lines I have ran a hoses up them, stuck a funnel in the end and poured hot water in. Goes real fast.

I dont really think it will hurt anything if you leave it frozen and if you break the valve you really will have a poopy situation. Pipes and valve are already froze so if they are not cracked now they should be ok. My only concern would be the tank expanding esp if vent stack is froze. Might wanna throw another jug of antifreeze in and stir it (yuck) with a stick if you can.

Best of luck. Maybe put a heat trace on the pipe and heat pads on the tanks for next year.
Yes, I agree about being cautious. I gave er a few solid tugs and it wouldn't budge. The last thing I need to do is break that sucker!!

On further research, looks like these are a slider valve, so in theory, I think I will be ok with 'stuff' in the tank for the winter. I think I'll dump some more antifreeze though....

Will put some gentle heat on it Monday as a last try though. The valve is way back in the underbelly which is covered. That's why it's so hard to get at. The connection for the sani hose is probably 2' from the valve gate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF6JfnI2AzY

Here's a video of a similar setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
take a kettle of some type and pour boiling water on it. or take it to a car wash and hit it with warm water, or leave it sit in a heated bay for a while. If you were closer you could put it in mine, surely someone has room for a couple days there
I may have a line on a heated bay, and I have some new tires on order, so next good Chinook I may tow it out of there and get it into a shop. Appreciate the offer though. I have a few friends with chevy 1 tons and another guy with an F350 so I think I have that part covered if need be.
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Old 11-11-2017, 06:01 PM
spoiledsaskhunter spoiledsaskhunter is offline
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i'd hook it up and drag it to Arizona for a month or so!
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Old 11-11-2017, 06:25 PM
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My brothers trailer froze up a few winters ago when he was out playing.


He called the local indoor car/truck wash and asked them if he could warm up his trailer overnight. They charged him $20 each night, as it stayed there a few days. The car wash was pretty haunted and they were glad for any business.
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Old 11-11-2017, 06:35 PM
Big Red 250 Big Red 250 is offline
 
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When I froze up my gate valve on my black water rv tank I poured 1 gallon of Menthyl Hydrate down the toilet into the tank. I let it sit for a couple of hours with no heat on it and the gate valve pulled open.. So, I would think if your using heat at the same time, it shouldn't take as long.
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:39 PM
Ebrand Ebrand is offline
 
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Default Frozen

Got caught last year with the black 1/2 full and frozen solid.

Hot tub was full of hot water though. Poured as much hot in as I could. And then some over the gate valve till I could get it to open ( that did not take much ). An hour or so later it flushed through. I suspect the hot water in the closed tank stayed really warm.

Be careful with the heat gun.
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Old 11-11-2017, 08:28 PM
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Is it possible to wrap the tank/pipework in a heat trace cable. The stuff is usually available at an electrical wholesaler or even get a lower grade version from Home depot. It would be a less rapid thaw if you were worried about cracking of pipes or tanks.
As mentioned above, I would also look at a heated parking bay as an option.
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Old 11-11-2017, 08:53 PM
javlin101 javlin101 is offline
 
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I used to use my motorhome at the lake lot during the winter and let the kids use the tolet but manually flushed with winter antifreeze. Drained the tank in the spring and in 4 winters of doing this never had a problem.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:22 AM
jpohlic jpohlic is offline
 
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Originally Posted by javlin101 View Post
I used to use my motorhome at the lake lot during the winter and let the kids use the tolet but manually flushed with winter antifreeze. Drained the tank in the spring and in 4 winters of doing this never had a problem.
I do the same thing.
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Old 11-12-2017, 08:27 PM
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I'm not sure the duratracs are the answer either. I run them and they do not grip on ice like you think they do. I wish you the best of luck. Just wanted to let you know that if you spend $1200 on a set of tires they may not do what you hope.
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Old 11-12-2017, 08:31 PM
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I'm not sure the duratracs are the answer either. I run them and they do not grip on ice like you think they do. I wish you the best of luck. Just wanted to let you know that if you spend $1200 on a set of tires they may not do what you hope.
Understood. I had Duratracs on my last F150 and know they aren’t a true winter tire, but I was happy with my last pair. The piggy bank won’t allow for a separate set of true winter tires. The duratracs are going to be way better than these hankooks though!
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:41 PM
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crank up your furnace for a day to heat up the entire tank. that's what the insulated underbelly is for. then heat up the valve
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:56 PM
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crank up your furnace for a day to heat up the entire tank. that's what the insulated underbelly is for. then heat up the valve
We had the belly heated for six days through the cold snap, but after towing for an hour and a half she was froze solid.

I don’t have the confidence that I have much heat going into the belly and will have to drop the cover for myself next summer. Shortly after buying the trailer I found a flap in the underbelly that exposed a ripped duct which explained why there was no heat in the bedroom.

I like my trailer for many reason and a great floor plan but it’s becoming obvious that the cold temperature marketing is junk.

Couldn’t afford the extra 10k for an artic fox so you get what you pay for.

This would be my dream trailer.
http://northwoodmfg.com/arctic-fox-2/arctic-fox-25w/

But this gives me my excuse to find an appproptiate wall tent!
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:20 AM
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Whew! The thread title had me initially scared that I’d be expecting a main sewer service call after you’d attended a cheese festival
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:27 AM
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Get the Duratracks at Canadian tire, put a sale alert on for the size you want - you will save about 400 a set. As far as the trailer, get it in where it is warm, thaw it out, drain and winterize. IF you can't get it warmed up I would leave it to spring. You are likely to do more damage with heat guns et al than leaving it frozen with 2/3s of a tank. If freezing blows that valve or pipe it already is done. The tank will be fine unless you are right full and have no room for expansion.
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:10 PM
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So… here’s the update for those that may find this mildly interesting.

Got the hairdryer going off the generator (don’t tell my wife) and had it blowing up the tube, while I had the trailer furnace running, and my big buddy heater directed at the underside of the trailer. After 40 minutes, gave er a tug and YES!
There’s definitely some solids still frozen in there, but I got the tank down to about 1/3 full, and dumped in more antifreeze and called it a winter.

The part you’ll enjoy, is that when I lifted the turd tote onto the tailgate, it was about 100lbs I’d say. Got it on the tailgate, and rolled it into the bed over the joint, and POP goes the turd tote lid! So…. Probably 20 litres of poo water going everywhere, contaminating stuff in the box, and not to mention myself.

I’ve spent the last 4hrs at the sani station to dump the rest, the truck wash to decontaminate my truck and the stuff in the box, and doing a bit of dry heaving along the way. Let’s just say our eating and beverage choices weren’t the most healthy on that trip. Thank goodness it was cool tonight or the warm air would have made things that much more aromatic! Neighbors saw me strip naked in the backyard, and I’m burning my running shoes.

I feel like I should go get a tetnus shot or flu shot, or maybe just have a very stiff whiskey, for cleanliness purposes of course…..
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:17 PM
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Lather, rinse, repeat. It helps build up your immune system! I think in the order of being disease-resistant plumbers & honey-wagon drivers probably rate second only to residents of New Delhi's ghetto's
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:38 PM
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Your first brown geyser, welcome to RVing
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