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11-17-2017, 08:36 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 149
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Federal Fusion Ammunition Performance
Harvested my first deer in about 15 yrs today. Shot was around 200 and he dropped about 50 yards later, dead within seconds. Was quite thrilled with the shells performance until we dressed him out. Hardly any expansion whatsoever, entrance and exit wound about the same size. Shot was a bit farther back than I would’ve liked, got lucky and took out some of the liver I believe, massive hemorrhage. Was using my late grandfathers 30-06 with 150gr Federal Fusion ammunition. I’ve seen exit wounds the size of softballs with some bullet types, wondering what other people’s experiences have been with this ammo and whether or not it really matters.
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11-17-2017, 08:49 PM
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mds694
Harvested my first deer in about 15 yrs today. Shot was around 200 and he dropped about 50 yards later, dead within seconds. Was quite thrilled with the shells performance until we dressed him out. Hardly any expansion whatsoever, entrance and exit wound about the same size. Shot was a bit farther back than I would’ve liked, got lucky and took out some of the liver I believe, massive hemorrhage. Was using my late grandfathers 30-06 with 150gr Federal Fusion ammunition. I’ve seen exit wounds the size of softballs with some bullet types, wondering what other people’s experiences have been with this ammo and whether or not it really matters.
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My own experience has been that performance is generally good, but slightly unpredictable in a sense. I've used both the 130 grain and 150 grain bullets in my .270. The 130 grain .270 bullets have almost seemed too tough for deer hunting, I've run them through about 4 feet of deer and still gotten small exit wounds, all animals died quickly though, never recovered a bullet. I did like these bullets.
I've used the 150's on moose and a few deer, and my general impression is that they actually mushroom more violently for some reason. I have a couple I've pulled out of moose that hit no major bones and they look terrible, much worse than the lowly Corelocts. I once shot big buck head on at about 20 yards, hitting him high in the chest in line with his spine. That's pretty tough on a bullet for sure but the results were still surprising, no exit wound and pieces of the bullet scattered all through the animal. I did not like these bullets much
In the end everything I ever shot with them died, and I never had a total failure so IMO they are a decent bullet. I have however come to feel that their performance when switching between weights, and possibly calibers can be unpredictable. Performance does not seem to progress or change in a logical manner with these bullets.
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If the good lord didnt want me to ride a four wheeler with no shirt on, then how come my nipples grow back after every wipeout?
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11-17-2017, 08:59 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 455
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For the 250 yard or less foothills hunting I do, I’ve never had any issues with it. My 270 loves the 130 grain blue box ammo and has killed everything they’ve ever touched without any issues
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11-17-2017, 09:13 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mds694
Harvested my first deer in about 15 yrs today. Shot was around 200 and he dropped about 50 yards later, dead within seconds. Was quite thrilled with the shells performance until we dressed him out. Hardly any expansion whatsoever, entrance and exit wound about the same size. Shot was a bit farther back than I would’ve liked, got lucky and took out some of the liver I believe, massive hemorrhage. Was using my late grandfathers 30-06 with 150gr Federal Fusion ammunition. I’ve seen exit wounds the size of softballs with some bullet types, wondering what other people’s experiences have been with this ammo and whether or not it really matters.
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You are basing bullet expansion on the size of the exit wound and not a recovered bullet? No meat eater wants a softball sized wound. Bullet fragmenting/tumbling may cause bigger holes. A bullet that expands as expected does not necessarily make a hole bigger than its diameter. I use Federal Fusion in two rifles that I also hand load for. Federal Fusion while being an economical ammunition choice, performs well in my experience. I buy Federal Fusion to shoot and use the brass for reloading.
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11-17-2017, 09:33 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNP
You are basing bullet expansion on the size of the exit wound and not a recovered bullet? No meat eater wants a softball sized wound. Bullet fragmenting/tumbling may cause bigger holes. A bullet that expands as expected does not necessarily make a hole bigger than its diameter. I use Federal Fusion in two rifles that I also hand load for. Federal Fusion while being an economical ammunition choice, performs well in my experience. I buy Federal Fusion to shoot and use the brass for reloading.
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I guess that’s why I asked, only my 2nd deer I’ve shot personally and wasn’t sure what was to be expected and how to gauge performance other than a dead animal.
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11-17-2017, 10:58 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Calgary, SE
Posts: 428
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Fusion
This 130gr fusion from a 270win was recovered from a bull moose yesterday. 225 yards.
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11-18-2017, 06:39 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mds694
I guess that’s why I asked, only my 2nd deer I’ve shot personally and wasn’t sure what was to be expected and how to gauge performance other than a dead animal.
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Judge bullet performance by the damage to the vitals, and how they penetrate bone if encountered. A good bullet will reach the vitals and do sufficient damage to the vitals with pretty much any shot angle. Some bullets such as the Partition, and the monometals often leave small exit wounds, but still do considerable damage to the vitals.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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11-18-2017, 10:49 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Sylvan Lake
Posts: 230
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I was in the tree stand yesterday and sneezed, so to cover it up I did a few grunt calls. 5 seconds later a Coyote comes flying in, out of nowhere, at 50 yards. I figured I'd save some deer's lived and took him down with my 30-06 shooting Fusion 180 grain bullets (this was my first coyote too). You know that softball sized exit hole you were asking about.... ya, that's what happenned.
I've also taken 2 bucks over the past 2 years with these bullets and both dropped on the spot.
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11-18-2017, 10:51 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,814
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They are definitely a good bullet.
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11-18-2017, 11:20 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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The deer died within 50 yards. I would say the bullet performed perfectly.
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11-18-2017, 11:51 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 828
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They have been excellent in my 25-06. Performed like a bonded bullet should.
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11-18-2017, 12:05 PM
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: edmonton
Posts: 3,861
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get its done, my tikka 270win shoot 130 grain
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11-18-2017, 12:19 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cowtown, agian
Posts: 2,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mds694
Harvested my first deer in about 15 yrs today. Shot was around 200 and he dropped about 50 yards later, dead within seconds. Was quite thrilled with the shells performance until we dressed him out. Hardly any expansion whatsoever, entrance and exit wound about the same size. Shot was a bit farther back than I would’ve liked, got lucky and took out some of the liver I believe, massive hemorrhage. Was using my late grandfathers 30-06 with 150gr Federal Fusion ammunition. I’ve seen exit wounds the size of softballs with some bullet types, wondering what other people’s experiences have been with this ammo and whether or not it really matters.
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You just described perfect performance from a bullet.
You made a sub par shot and it died quickly. The bullet path had very little resistance and that is what expands bullets.
Think front end damage on your Buick vs a snow bank and then vs a brick wall.
Entrance and exit wounds are not a good way to determine bullet performance. Internal damage is. And you had what was required.
Ive used Fusions on deer to moose in a .270 And always found they worked admirably. It's the number 1 factory ammo I recommend.
__________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
- Sir Winston Churchill
A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody.
-Thomas Paine
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11-18-2017, 04:53 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 149
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So why a big hole in the coyote but not the deer? Is this a representation of expansion or due to an increased force of impact at a closer distance?
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11-18-2017, 06:58 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ondaway
Posts: 269
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I've always been happy with the performance of my 30-06 165gr fusions. Most deer are dead on contact. Had an elk tip over in his tracks and a bull moose take a couple steps and pushed over with a second shot. Most shots ranging 50-200yrds. Most bullets didn't pass through and most had a fair bit of fragmentation. Aside from some damaged meat they kill very well in experience.
Greg
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11-18-2017, 07:11 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cold Lake
Posts: 1,723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rem338win
You just described perfect performance from a bullet.
You made a sub par shot and it died quickly. The bullet path had very little resistance and that is what expands bullets.
Think front end damage on your Buick vs a snow bank and then vs a brick wall.
Entrance and exit wounds are not a good way to determine bullet performance. Internal damage is. And you had what was required.
Ive used Fusions on deer to moose in a .270 And always found they worked admirably. It's the number 1 factory ammo I recommend.
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This right here. You killed what you wanted to and quickly. How much better does it get? I’ve used fusions in almost every rifle I’ve hunted with. Everything died and not only that, they have been extremely accurate for factory ammo.
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11-18-2017, 07:59 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mds694
So why a big hole in the coyote but not the deer? Is this a representation of expansion or due to an increased force of impact at a closer distance?
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Massive displacement of organs in a smaller thinner skinned animal. That's why the arm pits of coyotes blow out of them with larger caliber bullets.
LC
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11-18-2017, 10:21 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mds694
So why a big hole in the coyote but not the deer? Is this a representation of expansion or due to an increased force of impact at a closer distance?
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It is a combination of distance, expansion and resistance of the mass of an animal. If you shoot a gopher with a .22 rimfire it will often blow a hole all out of proportion to the size of the slug and animals size. If you shoot a beaver or coyote with the same .22 rimfire bullet it will not leave a hole near as big as it did in the little gopher.
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11-19-2017, 07:25 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: southern alberta
Posts: 2,246
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I've got some loaded up for my 7mm in 160 gr but haven't killed anything with them yet they do group well though
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11-19-2017, 08:25 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 149
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Thanks, was just worried the exit wound was a representation of damage done internally and the bullet was just passing right through. Learned a lot about shot placement, those vitals are a lot smaller and more cranial than I realized.
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11-19-2017, 10:45 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N. E. of High River
Posts: 4,985
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I have shot game with small entrance and exit wounds that have extreme internal damage. I find it better not to look for bullet failure on game that expires quickly.
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11-19-2017, 12:02 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Somewhere north of Edmonton
Posts: 616
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I only use Federal Fusion 165 grain in my .308 and have been for 10 years. That's both in my Savage 99C's and my Remington 700
Attached is an image of 4 slugs I've retrieved. Far left is the one I recovered from a cow elk in 2012. I hit rib going in and coming out (300 yards on the nose, got both lungs) and it stuck in the hide on the offside. It mushroomed perfectly. She went about 30 yards and dropped dead.
Second from the left actually came out of a whitey doe. It was about a 180 yard shot, hit shoulder and got both lungs. She went 30 yards and dropped dead. This one can't sit flat on the bottom of the slug as it deformed quite exotically. I suspect that's because it hit a major bone. You can see the one piece sticking off to the side. This bullet did a lot of damage to the lungs and was stuck in the hide on the offside
The last two are from the bull moose I shot last year. The one on the far right is majorly deformed from hitting the ball at the top of the front right leg bone. Ball portion of bone was shattered (dang it....cost me some meat) The second from the right actually went through the left shoulder blade breaking it into 3 pieces. As you can see, it mushroomed perfectly just like the one from the elk. The first shot was right shoulder, it ran off a few yards and turned facing the other way so I gave it another in the other shoulder. Then it still ran 15 or 20 yards (I know.......tough eh!) and laid down in water :|
I've shot a lot of deer, several elk and a couple moose with these bullets and they perform beautifully..........as long as I do.
I can, and do, consistently shoot under 1/2 MOA at 500 yards with these. My best group was a 1" grouping but I was using my led sled though for that one
My best shot in the field, with my Swarovski Z5 3,5-18x44 (Ballistic Turret) mounted on my Savage 99C was 495 yards. My second best was with the scope mounted on my Remington 700 and that was a cow elk at 450 yards. That elk incidentally was quartered towards me. This was the waning minutes of legal and I thought she was more broadside than she was. Bullet hit rib going in the right side, nicked the paunch (no real mess inside though, thank God....the entry/exit in the stomach were about 2" apart) and destroyed the liver. Momma was unhappy because there was no part of the liver that was recoverable. I like liver a lot and was disappointed too. I was also very surprised at the damage this bullet caused to the elks liver, it literally exploded!
Anyhow, I like this ammo a lot and am very impressed by the performance. I got Federal to make me up a ballistic chart (there's always a partial chart on the back of the box itself) for my zero at 250 yards. I ran the ballistic calculator on Swarovski's site and it matched almost exactly.
It's worth noting, I've never seen these make a big exit hole.......ever! I wouldn't use ammo that made big holes as that ruins meat!
__________________
It matters not how straight the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
***William Henley***
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11-19-2017, 03:37 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N. E. of High River
Posts: 4,985
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CptnBlues63
Good Post
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11-19-2017, 07:24 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Central Kootenays BC
Posts: 432
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I have used both !30gr and 150gr Fusions in my 270win. Both weights were very effective on two cow elk and a number of deer. I only recovered two bullets from the animals taken with these loaded in the magazine. One had retained 76%(whitetail buck) and the other 81%(cow elk). Perfect performance in my opinion, I like two holes bleeding. The vast majority were broadside heart/lung shots, all under 150m. I didn't find any big pieces of lead in the meat so I think that might indicate that the bullet didn't blow apart. Entrance hole always clean the exit sometimes pretty big especially after punching through two ribs and about three feet of cow elk.
I was always very pleased with their performance at the at the range as well, they always shot under an inch when I did my part, occasionally when I was really on well under an inch. Plus in general they come cheaper than many other bonded bullets. I think they're great bullets.
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11-20-2017, 10:24 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,433
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Fusions are a bonded bullet they don't blow softball size holes in game they penetrate and hold together. Deer died bullet seemed to have done a fine job on a gut shot.
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11-20-2017, 11:09 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cowtown, agian
Posts: 2,816
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What people forget sometimes, and it has already been stated here, is that holes are more often dictated by where an animal is hit vs what it's hit with.
I can recall seeing a fix that was shot with a .223 cal solid. It was hit in the shoulders and the exit was destructive and due to the bullet pushing the ball joint and broken bone thru the exit.
Similarly I recall having to hunt hard to find the entrance and exit wounds of a 225gr .338 WM shot in the arse headed away. It exited under the chin; that was an excellent fur that paid for a box of bullets.
__________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
- Sir Winston Churchill
A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody.
-Thomas Paine
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11-20-2017, 11:54 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 262
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I’ve had good luck with these bullets dropping deer effectively, for group size they certainly weren’t exceptional. Good weight retention and expansion based on the recovered bullets, and good results on Deer that got a pass through.
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11-21-2017, 09:58 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Somewhere north of Edmonton
Posts: 616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by covey ridge
CptnBlues63
Good Post
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Thanks!
I didn't, but should have mentioned, I've never had one of these fragment. Even the one that hit the ball of a moose's shoulder bone. While deformed more so than any other, was one solid piece.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rem338win
Similarly I recall having to hunt hard to find the entrance and exit wounds of a 225gr .338 WM shot in the arse headed away. It exited under the chin...
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I laughed when I saw this. Shot a deer that was running away one time. When we dressed it, the chest cavity was full of blood. I didn't think much about it until we skinned it out a little later at camp. Could not find the entry/exit wounds. We (one hunting partner and I - he helped skin it out and was with me when I shot it) figure it went in right beside the bunghole and exited out the throat although we never could find entry/exit holes in the hide. I figure the bullet cut the main arteries under the spine as it passed through thus the blood.
No evidence of a bullet anywhere until we ground the trim meat and the grinder stopped up on a .22 bullet some ignorant horses behind had shot the deer with at some point far enough before hunting season that there was no evidence of a wound of any kind anywhere. Suspect the bullet came out of back left hip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoch
I’ve had good luck with these bullets dropping deer effectively, for group size they certainly weren’t exceptional. Good weight retention and expansion based on the recovered bullets, and good results on Deer that got a pass through.
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I don't consider myself a sniper by any stretch of the imagination but I spend a lot of time at the range and out in the country shooting at distances up to 600 yards. I have good guns and an excellent scope which matters every bit as much as practicing.
I've had my Swarovski scope on two different rifles since buying it and shot exceptional groups with these rounds. With the Savage 99C sitting on my led sled I put 4 rounds so tight at 100 yards you could cover the holes with a quarter.
I shoot 1" and under groups all the time with both rifles freehand [off of a rest (Savage) or the bipod (Remington 700)] It's probably worth noting I put a Timney trigger on my Remington 700. The trigger makes a big difference. I have it tuned to 3.5 lb's pull and no slack. It's a nice wide shoe for positive contact and it breaks so precisely I never feel it......even when playing with a snap cap just to build the muscle memory in my finger.
I suggest if you're having grouping problems with these rounds try using a led sled or something like it. If you're all over the place it could be something is up with your rifle/scope. If you shoot nice tight groups with the sled, then you know you need to get out and practice a little more often. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the rifle. Not all rounds work as well with one gun as another. I just got lucky when the same ammo works as well in the Remington as it did in the Savage.
__________________
It matters not how straight the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
***William Henley***
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11-21-2017, 11:45 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cowtown, agian
Posts: 2,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnBlues63
Thanks!
I didn't, but should have mentioned, I've never had one of these fragment. Even the one that hit the ball of a moose's shoulder bone. While deformed more so than any other, was one solid piece.
I laughed when I saw this. Shot a deer that was running away one time. When we dressed it, the chest cavity was full of blood. I didn't think much about it until we skinned it out a little later at camp. Could not find the entry/exit wounds. We (one hunting partner and I - he helped skin it out and was with me when I shot it) figure it went in right beside the bunghole and exited out the throat although we never could find entry/exit holes in the hide. I figure the bullet cut the main arteries under the spine as it passed through thus the blood.
No evidence of a bullet anywhere until we ground the trim meat and the grinder stopped up on a .22 bullet some ignorant horses behind had shot the deer with at some point far enough before hunting season that there was no evidence of a wound of any kind anywhere. Suspect the bullet came out of back left hip.
I don't consider myself a sniper by any stretch of the imagination but I spend a lot of time at the range and out in the country shooting at distances up to 600 yards. I have good guns and an excellent scope which matters every bit as much as practicing.
I've had my Swarovski scope on two different rifles since buying it and shot exceptional groups with these rounds. With the Savage 99C sitting on my led sled I put 4 rounds so tight at 100 yards you could cover the holes with a quarter.
I shoot 1" and under groups all the time with both rifles freehand [off of a rest (Savage) or the bipod (Remington 700)] It's probably worth noting I put a Timney trigger on my Remington 700. The trigger makes a big difference. I have it tuned to 3.5 lb's pull and no slack. It's a nice wide shoe for positive contact and it breaks so precisely I never feel it......even when playing with a snap cap just to build the muscle memory in my finger.
I suggest if you're having grouping problems with these rounds try using a led sled or something like it. If you're all over the place it could be something is up with your rifle/scope. If you shoot nice tight groups with the sled, then you know you need to get out and practice a little more often. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the rifle. Not all rounds work as well with one gun as another. I just got lucky when the same ammo works as well in the Remington as it did in the Savage.
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Im still trying to picture the look of that scope on an old 99. It's a awkward pairing thats obviously very utilitarian!
I picture 99s with glossy 4x Leupolds or era Lyman Alaskans and Noske 2x in adjustable mounts.
Dang it. I need another 99....
__________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
- Sir Winston Churchill
A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody.
-Thomas Paine
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11-21-2017, 12:22 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 330
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I took a WT buck last year with those bullets. 60 yards broadside with a 165gr fusion from a .308 savage 11. He fell over where he stood, was getting MOA groups from that setup.
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