Elk Problems in Banff and area

[gube]

Here is some info on the Wolf problems in Alberta. I've included some E-mails that I have received about them. I know that the ya-ha-tinda has been pretty sparce over the last couple of years. Anybody else have any thoughts on this?



A recent CTV news item from Banff said their were only 288 elk left in the bow valley inside Banff. Of this 218 reside in the town of Banff. This is presenting major problems as they all apparently come right into town after dark creating people wildlife hazards. The elk are also depleting the local range.

Parks Canada wants to further reduce this number.

They interviewed a friend of the wolfs who suggested the wolfs simply have to eat more elk??????
THIS WAS A LOBBY EFFORT ON PARKS CANADA TO CULL THE ELK HERD
The population of elk in Banff has traditionally been approx 5500 spread over the entire park and wintering on the Ya Ha tinda and the bow valley
The Ya Ha now has probably less than 500 elk and they are experiencing similar problems.
Ken contacted Cliff white Head Bio. For Banff and his info to Ken was: The wolf numbers around the town site have increased .

3 more Grizzly have moved into the area.

As night approaches they move closer to town to prey on the elk.

The elk respond by going into town where it is safe.

They elk refuse to migrate off the winter range due to the above

There is a safety factor for humans due to the elk being in town and the surrounding camp sights

PARKS CANADA WILL NOT MANAGE THE WOLF POPULATION DUE TO PUBLIC OPINION
Someone has to get these facts to the public
PUBLIC OPINION BASED ON FACTS IS WHAT WE NEED

Keep in mind this is what happens when two different entities try to manage one resource
Think about this happening in our Wildland parks because there could be two depts trying to manage the same resource.



Find enclosed some stats from ken
We need some help here


Hi Pete,

Here is the elk fly counts for the winter of 2007.
Now we need to look at the population goals as set by SRD Jim and Eldon . This is for pretty well the same area they flew. From Panther River (WMU 416) to Brown Creek (WMU434).
Elk goal-5645. This here report shows they counted only 829 elk!!!!!!

The population goal for WMU 416,418,420, is set at 2470 elk!!!!!



----- Original Message -----
From: Anne Hubbs
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:53 PM


<<Elk Winter Ranges Aerial Survey Report 2007.doc>>

Anne Hubbs, PhD, P. Biol.
Senior Wildlife Biologist
Fish & Wildlife Division
2nd floor, Provincial Bldg., 4919-51 St.
Rocky Mountain House, AB.
T4T 1B3


ALBERTA FISH AND WILDLIFE
WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT BRANCH – SW Region – Rocky Mountain House

Elk Winter Ranges: Aerial Survey 2007



Areas Flown: All elk winter ranges in the Clearwater Fish and Wildlife District, except ranges 7a (west George Creek) and 38 (Cline R. east Falls Creek campground). Ranges within Jasper and Banff National Parks were also not surveyed at this time.

Date: Feb. 15 and 16, 2007


Survey Crew: Anne Hubbs, Robert Anderson, and Eldon Bruns (all experienced)
Pilot: Murray Schroderus (experienced)


Aircraft: Bell 206 C-FBKH


Weather: Feb. 15 Feb. 16
Temp. (C) -2 to +2 degrees -2 to +2 degrees
Wind Calm to 20 knots Calm to 30 knots
Snow cover (%) 100% 100%
Bare spots on steep slopes on both days

Cloud cover (10’s) 80 40
Visibility Good Good


Hours Flown: Feb. 15 - 5.8 hrs
Feb. 16- 5.3 hrs



Elk Observed (minimum counts; sight-ability correction not applied):

 Ya Ha Tinda Ranch 592

 Scalp Creek 4

 Upper Clearwater R. (west of Harrison Flats) 43

 Ram R.
o East of Ram Falls 4
o East of Pinto Creek 1
o Total Ram R. 5

 Elk Creek 39

 Kidd Creek (South of the North Saskatchewan R.) 22

 North Saskatchewan R.
o Brazeau Range 11
o West of Hornburg 40
o East of Sanders 39
o Total North Saskatchewan R. 90

 Kootenay Plains 13

 Brazeau R. 5

 LAT 52.7505, LONG -116.8252 3
o Not defined winter range

 South of Highway 11, North of Horburg 13
o Not defined winter range

Grand Total: 829 elk

Notes:
Canary Creek- lots of tracks, but no elk seen

No elk were observed near Nordegg. The pilot had seen approximately 6 elk on Feb. 13, 2007.

Other wildlife seen: 227 bighorn sheep
43 feral horses
White-tailed and Mule deer
Moose


Savage Vaporizer

[John Spartan]

Interesting - something that might be related to this - a rumor I keep hearing is that Parks Canada takes excess elk from Elk Island National Park and transports them to Jasper and Banff National Parks and releases them - these then migrate east to the foothills.

Anyone with connections to Parks Canada biologist staff able to confirm or deny this rumor?

[nube]

We need to get rid of most of those ferral horses as well. They keep a lot of those elk and sheep off of the wintering ranges and this may be part of the problems in some areas. I'm sure I will be called an As-Ho@# for saying it but I think some of those horse need to be removed.

True, Nube. When you see what those horses do to the landscape...

I mean, they're pretty and all (and sure, there's some 'history' associated with them), but they are not indigeous to the area.

People just have a romantic affinity for 'em, so they're protected. Sigh.

Cheers,
Stinky

--------------------------------------------------------------

You save the whales, you save the seals,
Save whatever's cute and squeals,
But you kill the thing that's in the womb,
Wouldn't want no baby boom! - Steve Taylor

[nube]

As far as I know they are not protected. I would say it is like our wild buffalo. As long as you don't shoot it and leave it what charge could you get? I had enough of them when I was Grizzly hunting around Hinton and Rob a few years ago. Piles of horse poop all over the place and the elk numbers were next to none.

Sorry Nube, they're protected.

Oops, my apologies, I didn't mean to hijack the thread... This was originally about Elk, wasn't it?

Cheers,
Stinky

[albertaboy74]

Maybe I will Be looked down on as well, but, when I was working in the Hinton area ( Willow Creek Road ) I seen very few Elk but many of the Horses daily.
Something should be done about them, they are left alone while the hunting pressure as well as natural preditors up there is really thinning out the elk herds.

I know Elk tastes great, but I wonder how horse tastes. LOL.

Just a thought.

Albertaboy74

[nube]

Thanks for the info. Stinky Buffalo. I have not seen or heard of that before but I guess they are protected from being shot.
I still think something needs to be done about the high numbers of them. I would rather see other wild animals than a bunch of horses.

[lazy ike]

I've been saying for years that hunters should be given acess to the Park. Even a limitted hunt would change the Elk's relationship with man in a hurry. I know it's not going to happen but it's an obvious solution.

As for those feral horses...they need to go. As I reported earlier I had a good sized herd Stampede on me last year when I was Whitetail hunting. All I could think of, is what would happen if this herd got pushed through a campsite

[Brady]

That is unreal, that the elk numbers are that low. I feel that the wolf is doing quite well, population wise, at least where I have been.
As for the horses, I have personally seen them chase the elk off a few nice ranges. Not good in my books. The gov't has rounded up a bunch of them around Hinton, but there needs to be way more removed, one way or another. Just my opinion though.

I remember elk hunting South of Limestone Mountain one year, and it was sure full of horse "sign". The stallions leave piles of manure as higher than my knees, and the trails were pounded down like one of those trail riding places.

Caught a glimpse of a herd of them one afternoon... It was nice to see something, and they sure are pretty to look at, but man, I really don't think anything else could compete with them for the land.

I saw two deer in there that entire trip, and I cut one set of elk tracks. At the end of the last day we walked far enough to find a bull elk rub, but it was just time to turn around and get home.

Stinky

[Big Bull]

John Spartan, Parks Canada is definitely not shipping elk to Jasper or Banff. About 5 or 6 years ago, they rounded up 200 elk from the Jasper townsite and Jasper Park Lodge over a two year period and moved the to Slave Lake region and Brazeau area. Since this, our ball diamonds, school yards, dog park, and playgrounds have been fenced so that the green grass buffet is not as tempting to the elk. As well, every morning the wardens chase elk out of the townsite, before the kids head to school. I think that they can still do this without a sidearm! They may be shipping elk from elk island, but I don't know where to? I will ask some of the warden's here that used to work at Elk Island, and report back.
Big Bull

[John Spartan]

Big Bull, I appreciate that. I keep hearing this from some ranchers I know between Nordegg-RMH-Calgary so not sure if they're just pulling my leg or what.

[TreeGuy]

So, the question is, are the Elk moving to different areas with less pressure, or are they just getting killed off? Will Elk (tongue-in-cheek) soon be declared 'endangered' here in Alberta?

The areas I frequent have experienced an explosion of wolf populations in the last 5-6 years. Also, there are more bears and cats than I've ever seen (note: lived and hunted in Alberta since 1995). Hell, twice now I've encountered a Cougar on the south side of the Bearspaw Resevoir in Calgary (once at 60 yards).

What's going on? Are we as the 'General Public' getting the whole truth? Where have the Elk gone? Shedcrazy, are you here?

Tree

[kodiak1]

Yes Treeguy,

The elk are disappearing at a rapid pace, due to predation. This all started in the early 80's when the wolves started to recolonize in the Banff National Park.
It took until the 90's, for the wolf packs to build and in 1997 the Elk herd that uses the Banff National Park in the summer and Ya Ha Tinda and adjacent WMU's was at a winter count done by Banff National Park staff of 4500 elk.
Now this winter of 2007 you see the elk count done by Alberta SRD is only at 829.

As I speak there is 5 packs of wolves working on the elk herd and there is right around 60 wolves and since April there is another 20 to 30 pups born.

Just to note that each wolf eats between 15 and 18 elk per year.
So just think 60 wolves eat between 900 and 1080 elk or some other configuration of ungulates!!!!!!!

That is also why you hardly see any Big Game animals while hunting in the Eastern Slopes of this Province.

We need to pool all our resources together and reduce the (GANGS) number one predators (WOLVES) To a balance with the Big Game Animals!!!!!

[TreeGuy]

Kodiak1.....holy crap!! It's funny how all we've heard for years now is how the Banff pack is depleating and wolves are endangered!

I've only hunted here (Calgary based, so Eastern slopes mainly) for about 10 years, and what I have witnessed firsthand regarding wolves is that their populations have exploded! Same goes with the bears.

I understand the cyclical nature of the predator/prey releationship, but man, I really don't want to wait for all of the predators to starve to death from lack of prey (read: my prey also). Is there a solution? Should we try to get the word out that it is cool to blast wolves? The more the better?

What about the cats? I have certainly noticed an increase in cougar populations also. Hell, I've seen cougars twice now above the Bearspaw Dam in Calgary (once while carring fish out and it was within 60 yards!).

What can we do?

Tree

[gube]

We need to get the word out that the wolves need to culled. The proof is out there now that our elk populations have been virtually decimated due to the population explosion of the wolves. I do believe there is a plan in the works to cull the central pack, capture the alpha male and female, and sterilize them. This way they would still keep and patrol their territory for years to come and without their own population growing. This would allow our large ungulates to come back and maintain a better balance. The tough part is getting the "tree huggers" to accept it. I don't think it will happen even though the data proves on what has been happening. It has taken the wolves approx 20 years to bring up their population to the point where without mans intervention, we would now see population crashes on both sides in regular cycles.

[kodiak1]

We need to get the message out to all conservative (hunters) outdoorsmen that they can hunt and harvest wolves from the opening of a big game season in that WMU to May 31 of the next year and if there is a bear season in that WMU, then you can hunt wolves until June 15.

That is a good long season, but I know there is so many hunters that don't know they can even harvest wolves.

Let's get the word out to harvest these beasts so we can have some ungulates to enjoy and conserve!!!!!!!

Kodiak1

[BrianWiley]

Good day ,I can't help but put my two cents in on this .
Myself and 4 others have been trying to bring attention to this wolf problem for now going on 5 years .
We have gone to meeting after meeting ,talked to most if not all the biologists invloved ,We even went to the memeorial services held for two wolves trapped (leagally )in B.C out of the Bow Valley pack .Where on of our memebers was actually threatened to ,"have his guts spilled out on the ground "by one of theses people.We where quiet well behaved andd still had these threats maed to us .We went at the begining of our quest just to see what we are up against .Holy crap
Tree guy mentioned that all he everr herad was how all he had herad was that the wolf is in trouble .THATS BECAUSE WE AS HUNTERS DON'T LIKE TO STIR THE POT !Also what we where told while dealing with the ministers on this (we' ve gone through 3 now) we where told that it looks like ther might be a problem .So we asked why not do something about it?
2 answers where the normal results .

1,It a politically senesitive area .
2.Well the wolf ,grizzly ,courgar what ever supporters MAKE MORE NOISE THAT YOU GUYS DO ,GOVT LISTEN TO THE MOST VOCAL .The squeky wheel get the grease .!!!!

I guess I would be nice to see new life put back in to this we've kind dropped our gloves after beating our heads against the wall for so long ,our web site is still up with lots of info on it ,I'm not sure if I can post it but let me know if you want to see it .We did have ads in the hunting reulations up till 2005 .
Good day all and good luck

[TreeGuy]

Brian, I for one would love to see the link to your website, post away!

There is a new thread under 'General Discussion' about a news story today about 'dwindling' Grizzly populations. Apparently they only studied OUTSIDE of the park and between highways 1 and 16.

Based on the information Gube started this with, do you not see a correlation? The bears got to eat, if the wolves are taking out that many Elk, the bears are going to move else where...

Tree

[BrianWiley]

http://www.wildlife-enhancement.ca/
Go check it out if you like the message board is dead ,we've kind give up on it but there is lots of stuff in there if you got the time .You wouldn't believe the amount of politics invloved .And as far as he Grizzly bears go you don't talk to alot of people anymore that spend alot of time in the back country ,,,,,,and even closerr that don't see grizzlies and alot are having problems wtih them.Low bear numbers is the word now for the solicitors to get money from the general public who believe in the bull that comes out of there mouth.It is a hudge money making organization .All tax free donation that alot of it goes overseas.

[TreeGuy]

Thanks for that Brian. I've saved the link and will send it to as many hunters, and maybe more importantly, non-hunters I know. It's time to start blasting these critters before they multiply to the point where they starve themselves out, and we are out of critters to hunt!

Brian, you sound like someone who has been repeatedly beating his head against a brick wall for quite a while now. I for one say thank you for all of your work, and my awarness of the situation is pretty solid now. I'll try to do my part to help out.

Tree

[BrianWiley]

Thanks for your good will ,and good luck I'll still keep going butthe battle was not only just myself ,there are 6 of us all listed on the web site and we all put time and our own money into this project ,we were all passonate about it ,maybe we'll find new motives to renew ourselves
Brian Wiley